RN and NP

Hi everyone,
Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no longer
teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
the NP. I obviously know nothing at all about the nursing profession
so sorry for what may be idiotic questions. And thanks for any help
you can give. Thanks also once before when I posted about a medical
problem and got great answers (which one can rely on from a nurse
rather than a physician.)
God bless.

In article
<dfd94d81-cc88-404f-92db-516201aeea47@b9g2000prh.googlegroups . com >,
Islands <islands@volcanomail . com > wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
> I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
> but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
> a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no longer
> teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
> the NP.
Currently requires a MS, some talk about maybe Doctor of Nursing
Science or some similar title. With the AA, I can't see how he could do
the NP/MS route in less than 5 years even full time. Even with a BS in
something else (which I am assuming the "from scratch" part would rule
out.

"Islands" <islands@volcanomail . com > wrote in message
news:dfd94d81-cc88-404f-92db-516201aeea47@b9g2000prh.googlegroups . com ...
> Hi everyone,
> Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
> I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
> but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
> a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no longer
> teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
> the NP. I obviously know nothing at all about the nursing profession
> so sorry for what may be idiotic questions. And thanks for any help
> you can give. Thanks also once before when I posted about a medical
> problem and got great answers (which one can rely on from a nurse
> rather than a physician.)
> God bless.

Nurse practitioners (NP) require one to have a masters degree which is
the next step after one has a BSN. Graduate programs can run one, two or
more years depending upon previous qualifications. That is there are BSN
to MS/NP programs, as well as a few that take ADN's and combine a BSN
and MS into one program (NOT for the faint hearted).

Difference in salary between a ADN and even a BSN reflects their
different duties. Depending upon state laws, NPs have far more autonomy,
than "regular" RNs, that allow them to work independent of a direct
supervisor but usually always under the supervision of a physician.
There is more to it but that is things in a nutshell.

Right now, due to the "nursing shortage", big money is to be had at the
bedside, though it varies by geographical area. Some RNs are pulling
over 100k in places like California and even NYC.

If your husband has just graduated (you didn't say if he has taken and
passed his boards yet), then he should really work for a year or more to
not only get his bearings in the profession, but decide where he would
like to "go". NPs range from family to OB/GYN, and so forth, but one
needs to know something more than just textbook theory to make that
decision.

There is a movement afoot to finally erase the ADN programs, making BSN
mandatory for entry into the profession, and making NPs take doctorate
degrees instead of a masters. Shouldn't worry about either happening
anytime soon, as they have been trying to stamp out ADN programs for
over twenty years, but many still are hanging on.

Great thing about nursing at the moment is long as one has the physical,
and mental strength there is usually enough work out there that
over-time is easy to come by. There is also travelling nursing where one
goes to other states to work as well.

Wishing you and your husband the best of luck.

Candide

In article <eP1Wj.6059$T1.4044@trnddc01>,
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere . com > wrote:

>
> There is a movement afoot to finally erase the ADN programs, making BSN
> mandatory for entry into the profession, and making NPs take doctorate
> degrees instead of a masters. Shouldn't worry about either happening
> anytime soon, as they have been trying to stamp out ADN programs for
> over twenty years, but many still are hanging on.

And even then, anyone with an AA who has already passed the boards would
be grandfathered (or maybe grandmothered) in.


>

On May 12, 1:32 pm, "Candide" <PityMePi...@anywhere . com > wrote:
> "Islands" <isla...@volcanomail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:dfd94d81-cc88-404f-92db-516201aeea47@b9g2000prh.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > Hi everyone,
> > Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
> > I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> > stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
> > but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
> > a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no  longer
> > teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> > bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
> > the NP. I obviously know nothing at all about the nursing profession
> > so sorry for what may be idiotic questions. And thanks for any help
> > you can give. Thanks also once before when I posted about a medical
> > problem and got great answers (which one can rely on from a nurse
> > rather than a physician.)
> > God bless.
>
> Nurse practitioners (NP) require one to have a masters degree which is
> the next step after one has a BSN. Graduate programs can run one, two or
> more years depending upon previous qualifications. That is there are BSN
> to MS/NP programs, as well as a few that take ADN's and combine a BSN
> and MS into one program (NOT for the faint hearted).
>
> Difference in salary between a ADN and even a BSN reflects their
> different duties. Depending upon state laws, NPs have far more autonomy,
> than "regular" RNs, that allow them to work independent of a direct
> supervisor but usually always under the supervision of a physician.
> There is more to it but that is things in a nutshell.
>
> Right now, due to the "nursing shortage", big money is to be had at the
> bedside, though it varies by geographical area. Some RNs are pulling
> over 100k in places like California and even NYC.
>
> If your husband has just graduated (you didn't say if he has taken and
> passed his boards yet), then he should really work for a year or more to
> not only get his bearings in the profession, but decide where he would
> like to "go". NPs range from family to OB/GYN, and so forth, but one
> needs to know something more than just textbook theory to make that
> decision.
>
> There is a movement afoot to finally erase the ADN programs, making BSN
> mandatory for entry into the profession, and making NPs take doctorate
> degrees instead of a masters. Shouldn't worry about either happening
> anytime soon, as they have been trying to stamp out ADN programs for
> over twenty years, but many still are hanging on.
>
> Great thing about nursing at the moment is long as one has the physical,
> and mental strength there is usually enough work out there that
> over-time is easy to come by. There is also travelling nursing where one
> goes to other states to work as well.
>
> Wishing you and your husband the best of luck.
>
> Candide

Thanks so much for the advice and information. My husband is just
finishing his RN and has a long long way to go. I know it's a lot of
years more (and the level of the studies is difficult) but it helps to
talk to experienced nurses for guidance. You all are great and I have
the utmost respect for you and your profession.

"Islands" <islands@volcanomail . com > wrote in message

> Hi everyone,
> Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
> I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
> but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
> a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no longer
> teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
> the NP.

The new fad is for Doctor nurses. If your husband is exhausted now, he'll
be totally fried before he's done.

I am not aware of a big salary difference between a generic RN and an APRN.
The differences seem to be in the hours and the responsibilities. Someone
else (I think) posted in here recently about the trend toward more nurse
practitioners, in a world where NPs get to do the same work as MDs, but for
RN pay.

Between the relatively small pay differential and the opportunity cost of
going back to school, it might not be the financial boon you're looking for.
Give him a chance to find out what he likes in nursing before pushing him to
go back for advanced training. He can always pick up extra shifts or work
registry if he wants to make more money.

On May 13, 7:35 pm, "cat" <catsandcanar...@nospammeowmeow . com > wrote:
> "Islands" <isla...@volcanomail . com > wrote in message
> > Hi everyone,
> > Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond that?
> > I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> > stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the NP
> > but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this is
> > a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no  longer
> > teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> > bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN and
> > the NP.
>
> The new fad is for Doctor nurses.  If your husband is exhausted now, he'=
ll
> be totally fried before he's done.
>
> I am not aware of a big salary difference between a generic RN and an APRN=
.
> The differences seem to be in the hours and the responsibilities.  Someo=
ne
> else (I think) posted in here recently about the trend toward more nurse
> practitioners, in a world where NPs get to do the same work as MDs, but fo=
r
> RN pay.
>
> Between the relatively small pay differential and the opportunity cost of
> going back to school, it might not be the financial boon you're looking fo=
r.
> Give him a chance to find out what he likes in nursing before pushing him =
to
> go back for advanced training.  He can always pick up extra shifts or wo=
rk
> registry if he wants to make more money.

Thanks for the info. It's so different from teaching where the amount/
level of education matters greatly and in which areas also. I'm not
pushing him at all, he's pushing himself. He's one of those all or
nothing types so I'm trying to encourage him in any way I can and
since we can't rely primarily on my income anymore it's good to know
what working nurses think which programs etc. are worth doing. One
thing I noticed was at our local hospital beginning RNs start at about
$20./hr but at the same hospital chain there is an NP position for
$121,000./yrly. so it seemed to be a big difference but since I have
no idea about nursing salaries I may be completely confused (ya
think?) Thanks for the input!!!

"Islands" <islands@volcanomail . com > wrote in message
news:aa392d33-42e3-4656-ad26-2e769617eac5@n1g2000prb.googlegroups . com ...
On May 13, 7:35 pm, "cat" <catsandcanar...@nospammeowmeow . com > wrote:
> "Islands" <isla...@volcanomail . com > wrote in message
> > Hi everyone,
> > Does an NP require a MS and then some kind of certificate beyond
that?
> > I'm confused about the education required. My husband started from
> > stratch-AA degree and is finishing his RN and has talked about the
NP
> > but he's absolutely exhausted and I'm trying to encourage him (this
is
> > a midlife career change.) I have health problems and can no longer
> > teach full-time ( I work part-time) so we are really in a financial
> > bind now. There seems to be a big salary difference between the RN
and
> > the NP.
>
> The new fad is for Doctor nurses. If your husband is exhausted now,
he'll
> be totally fried before he's done.
>
> I am not aware of a big salary difference between a generic RN and an
APRN.
> The differences seem to be in the hours and the responsibilities.
Someone
> else (I think) posted in here recently about the trend toward more
nurse
> practitioners, in a world where NPs get to do the same work as MDs,
but for
> RN pay.
>
> Between the relatively small pay differential and the opportunity cost
of
> going back to school, it might not be the financial boon you're
looking for.
> Give him a chance to find out what he likes in nursing before pushing
him to
> go back for advanced training. He can always pick up extra shifts or
work
> registry if he wants to make more money.

Thanks for the info. It's so different from teaching where the amount/
level of education matters greatly and in which areas also. I'm not
pushing him at all, he's pushing himself. He's one of those all or
nothing types so I'm trying to encourage him in any way I can and
since we can't rely primarily on my income anymore it's good to know
what working nurses think which programs etc. are worth doing. One
thing I noticed was at our local hospital beginning RNs start at about
$20./hr but at the same hospital chain there is an NP position for
$121,000./yrly. so it seemed to be a big difference but since I have
no idea about nursing salaries I may be completely confused (ya
think?) Thanks for the input!!!

Nurse practitioners normally are not strictly doing the average bedside
nursing of an RN. The nearest equal would be a physician's assistant.
NP's diagnose, treat and manage care for their patients. They also can
function as a "point of entry" contact for patients into a hospital,
including areas such as the ER. While some states allow BSN nurses to
perform some of the above tasks, including writing some types of
scripts, their functions are limited and hardly encompass the breath of
a NP.

Using nurse mid-wives as an example (most always a NP in the United
States), while a competent RN who has been in doing L&D for awhile could
probably handle a simple delivery, a nurse-mid-wife would be able to by
law (again varying by state), too attend to a patient through her entire
pregnancy, right up to and during confinement. While the nurse mid-wife
would work under a physicians supervision, unless something out of the
ordinary happened, it would be possible for the entire case to be
handled by the NP. Contrast $121,000/year with what it costs for an
OB/GYN to handle just one delivery, and you begin to see some of the
allure of nurse NPs.

Again, as myself and others have stated, once your husband is licensed
and working, he will most always be able to pick up extra shifts or
registry work to bring in extra funds. If the two of you like
travelling, there are areas of the Untied States such as New York and
California that pay bedside RNs what your local hospital pays for NPs,
and in some cases more, much more.

If your husband is in a test taking, paper filling out gung-ho nursing
mode, have him apply to get his license in other states. California and
Florida are a two states that seem to take the longest, and have the mo
st onerous paper work requirements, but once he has his papers, he can
pack his bags and go where work (and money) suits, including doing
*shudder* strike coverage duty. Scab work may not be for everyone, but
it often pays very well.

Candide

Islands wrote:
>> Thanks for the info. It's so different from teaching where the amount/
> level of education matters greatly and in which areas also. I'm not
> pushing him at all, he's pushing himself. He's one of those all or
> nothing types so I'm trying to encourage him in any way I can and
> since we can't rely primarily on my income anymore it's good to know
> what working nurses think which programs etc. are worth doing. One
> thing I noticed was at our local hospital beginning RNs start at about
> $20./hr but at the same hospital chain there is an NP position for
> $121,000./yrly. so it seemed to be a big difference but since I have
> no idea about nursing salaries I may be completely confused (ya
> think?) Thanks for the input!!!


Just food for thought: that big salary may make you a target with money gets
tight. All of the sudden your position becomes unnecessary. I don't see the
same happening so easily with rank and file nurses.

I have seen numerous Nurse Educators come and go... the MSN positions get the ax
every time the budget becomes an issue. I believe it can be lonely sticking out
above the crowd.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr . com

--



"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr . com > wrote in message
news:HM2dnfc2a779BrbVnZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@giganews . com ...
> Islands wrote:
> >> Thanks for the info. It's so different from teaching where the
amount/
> > level of education matters greatly and in which areas also. I'm not
> > pushing him at all, he's pushing himself. He's one of those all or
> > nothing types so I'm trying to encourage him in any way I can and
> > since we can't rely primarily on my income anymore it's good to know
> > what working nurses think which programs etc. are worth doing. One
> > thing I noticed was at our local hospital beginning RNs start at
about
> > $20./hr but at the same hospital chain there is an NP position for
> > $121,000./yrly. so it seemed to be a big difference but since I have
> > no idea about nursing salaries I may be completely confused (ya
> > think?) Thanks for the input!!!
>
>
> Just food for thought: that big salary may make you a target with
money gets
> tight. All of the sudden your position becomes unnecessary. I don't
see the
> same happening so easily with rank and file nurses.
>
> I have seen numerous Nurse Educators come and go... the MSN positions
get the ax
> every time the budget becomes an issue. I believe it can be lonely
sticking out
> above the crowd.
>
>

I'd be interested to see if those NPs are paid overtime or just straight
salary. Straight salary means you could in theory work you behind off
doing nursing and quasi-doctor work and end up with the short end of the
stick salary wise. Wonder what the above hospital pays PAs and post
graduates?

Candide

Great point!

If I wanted to work umpteen unpaid hours while being a prime target for
layoffs and downsizing, I would go back to engineering.

Dan C wrote:
> Great point!
>
> If I wanted to work umpteen unpaid hours while being a prime target for
> layoffs and downsizing, I would go back to engineering.


Who made it?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr . com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Dan C wrote:
>
>>Great point!
>>
>>If I wanted to work umpteen unpaid hours while being a prime target for
>>layoffs and downsizing, I would go back to engineering.
>
>
>
> Who made it?

Islands and Candide. Discussions of whether OT is paid and how higher
paid nurse positions are targets for layoffs.

"Dan C" <dannyc12@comcast . net > wrote in message
news:76qdnRI6_NGOnLPVnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@comcast . com ...
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> > Dan C wrote:
> >
> >>Great point!
> >>
> >>If I wanted to work umpteen unpaid hours while being a prime target
for
> >>layoffs and downsizing, I would go back to engineering.
> >
> >
> >
> > Who made it?
>
> Islands and Candide. Discussions of whether OT is paid and how higher
> paid nurse positions are targets for layoffs.

No, dear; read up thread and you will see that it was Mortimer Schnerd
who stated that it was often the highest paid who were first to go, at
least by his own experience.

However think back to the late 1980's and early to mid 1990's when
managed care and for profits began taking over. First to get pushed out
were RNs with seniority (the only way one ever got decent wages those
days), who had been in one institution long enough to bring in what
management considered "high" wages. Though voices were raised in
protest, nothing happened, and that is partially the reason we are in
this mess of a nursing shortage now. More importantly it was from the
ranks of those senior nurses that MSNs including nursing educators and
clinical instructors came from.

Candide

Candide wrote:
> No, dear; read up thread and you will see that it was Mortimer Schnerd
> who stated that it was often the highest paid who were first to go, at
> least by his own experience.


Thank you for paying attention. However, it wasn't credit I was looking for as
much as a gentle nudge to include a bit of quotation to use as a point of
reference. Most people don't trim nearly enough; he trimmed it all.


> However think back to the late 1980's and early to mid 1990's when
> managed care and for profits began taking over. First to get pushed out
> were RNs with seniority (the only way one ever got decent wages those
> days), who had been in one institution long enough to bring in what
> management considered "high" wages. Though voices were raised in
> protest, nothing happened, and that is partially the reason we are in
> this mess of a nursing shortage now. More importantly it was from the
> ranks of those senior nurses that MSNs including nursing educators and
> clinical instructors came from.


I don't think "those days" are over. They still trump up reasons for the most
experienced nurses to leave. I work opposite a night shift that only has one
nurse suitable for charge duty. That's one nurse for seven days! They actually
pull experienced nurses from other units to do charge duty when she isn't
available. And she doesn't want the duty anyway... it puts her in harm's way
for any screwup that occurs with our inexperienced, barely speaking English
staff. On our unit, if your English is substandard, you work the night shift.
That way, nobody will notice. After all, it's dark outside.

Remember me whining about they just fired two charge nurses? They both were
reinstated.... only they can't do charge any more. Considering the 90 cent per
hour hit they took, I'd imagine they're snickering about the mess we're in. I
look forward to the next lawsuit. With all the money they don't give us in
raises, they can afford some big settlements.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr . com