Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Hi:

I posted this message before but didn't get any answers. I apologize
profusely to those who are annoyed by the repeated message.

The following martial arts site discusses certain techniques to
incapacitate opponents. The one I quoted talk about pain causing loss
of consciousness by disrupting the reticular formation. Is this true
science or just some age old myth?

quote from http :// 72.14.253.104/search?
qÊche:ziuTpWWP9 oJ:www .internetarmory,com /self defense.htm+%22neural
+shock%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3 :

"It is speculated that various organs of the body can send pain
impulses to the brain stem indicating a severe or overwhelming bodily
injury. The reticular activating system responds by producing a
functional "shut down", which results in loss of consciousness within
a second or two."

If this is real science, then what is mechanism in which the so-called
"shut down" occurs?

Any understanding, cooperation, and assistance is greatly
appreciated.


Thanks,

Radium

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Radium wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I posted this message before but didn't get any answers. I apologize
> profusely to those who are annoyed by the repeated message.
>
> The following martial arts site discusses certain techniques to
> incapacitate opponents. The one I quoted talk about pain causing loss
> of consciousness by disrupting the reticular formation. Is this true
> science or just some age old myth?
>
> quote from http :// 72.14.253.104/search?
> qÊche:ziuTpWWP9 oJ:www .internetarmory,com /self defense.htm+%22neural
> +shock%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3 :
>
> "It is speculated that various organs of the body can send pain
> impulses to the brain stem indicating a severe or overwhelming bodily
> injury. The reticular activating system responds by producing a
> functional "shut down", which results in loss of consciousness within
> a second or two."
>
> If this is real science, then what is mechanism in which the so-called
> "shut down" occurs?
>
> Any understanding, cooperation, and assistance is greatly
> appreciated.

Have you tried Googling "reticular activating system?"

--
Notan

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 5, 12:50 pm, Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote:

> Have you tried Googling "reticular activating system?"

Um, yes. Still haven't found the direct mechanism how in which a blow
to a pain-sensitive area would cause the RAS to shut-down
consciousness. What is this mechanism???

And no, I am not talking about the autonomic nervous system's response
to pain. I am talking about a direct link between excruciating pain
and a decrease in consciousness regardless of how -- or whether at all
-- the autonomic nervous system is affected.

According to the information on that martial arts website, severe pain
can directly cause coma by shutting off the RAS. This means that even
if the link between pain and autonomic functions were broken,
excruciating pain would still cause the victim to lose consciousness
-- without syncope or any decrease perfusion of blood to the brain.
IOW, there is a direct, purely-neurological, non-cardiac, non-
circulatory, non-vascular, non-respiratory, non-autonomic, non-
endocrine, non-hormonal mechanism in which extreme agony rapidly leads
to coma. Just what is this mysterious mechanism?? Seriously?!

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 5, 1:17 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 12:50 pm, Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote:
>
> > Have you tried Googling "reticular activating system?"
>
> Um, yes. Still haven't found the direct mechanism how in which a blow
> to a pain-sensitive area would cause the RAS to shut-down
> consciousness. What is this mechanism???
>
> And no, I am not talking about the autonomic nervous system's response
> to pain. I am talking about a direct link between excruciating pain
> and a decrease in consciousness regardless of how -- or whether at all
> -- the autonomic nervous system is affected.
>
> According to the information on that martial arts website, severe pain
> can directly cause coma by shutting off the RAS. This means that even
> if the link between pain and autonomic functions were broken,
> excruciating pain would still cause the victim to lose consciousness
> -- without syncope or any decrease perfusion of blood to the brain.
> IOW, there is a direct, purely-neurological, non-cardiac, non-
> circulatory, non-vascular, non-respiratory, non-autonomic, non-
> endocrine, non-hormonal mechanism in which extreme agony rapidly leads
> to coma. Just what is this mysterious mechanism?? Seriously?!

Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!
Will someone please respond with reasonable scientific answers?!

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?



You really think there are scientist on this board?

I once banged my knee into a steel gate on accident. The intense pains,
caused me to loose conciousness for a few minutes. Woke up on the ground.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 6, 5:30 am, xiaou2 <xia...@hotmail,com > wrote:

> I once banged my knee into a steel gate on accident. The intense pains,
> caused me to loose conciousness for a few minutes. Woke up on the ground.

What you experienced was a vasovagal syncope [nothing at all to do
with RAS]. Vasovagal syncope is a parasympathetic over-reaction to
extreme stress. Such stressors include -- but are not limited to --
extreme emotions, foul odors, or intense pain.

In a vasovagal syncope, the following occurs for a very short time:

1. Force of the heart muscles' contractions decrease significantly
2. Heart rate decreases dramatically.
3. Blood vessels around the body widen

The above 3 cause blood pressure to drop briefly but intensely. As a
result, the brain does not get the blood it needs and you transiently
lose consciousness.

Once again, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with the claim
on that martial-arts website about intense pain directly causing the
RAS to shut consciousness off.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 6, 3:54 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
> On Feb 6, 5:30 am, xiaou2 <xia...@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
> > I once banged my knee into a steel gate on accident. The intense pains,
> > caused me to loose conciousness for a few minutes. Woke up on the ground.
>
> What you experienced was a vasovagal syncope [nothing at all to do
> with RAS]. Vasovagal syncope is a parasympathetic over-reaction to
> extreme stress. Such stressors include -- but are not limited to --
> extreme emotions, foul odors, or intense pain.
>
> In a vasovagal syncope, the following occurs for a very short time:
>
> 1. Force of the heart muscles' contractions decrease significantly
> 2. Heart rate decreases dramatically.
> 3. Blood vessels around the body widen
>
> The above 3 cause blood pressure to drop briefly but intensely. As a
> result, the brain does not get the blood it needs and you transiently
> lose consciousness.
>
> Once again, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with the claim
> on that martial-arts website about intense pain directly causing the
> RAS to shut consciousness off.

Well, is anyone gonna respond to me? I hope so.

After all, I am simply interested in science -- especially rare and
wierd science.

So please don't leave me in the dark.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Radium wrote:
> On Feb 6, 3:54 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
>> On Feb 6, 5:30 am, xiaou2 <xia...@hotmail,com > wrote:
>>
>>> I once banged my knee into a steel gate on accident. The intense pains,
>>> caused me to loose conciousness for a few minutes. Woke up on the ground.
>> What you experienced was a vasovagal syncope [nothing at all to do
>> with RAS]. Vasovagal syncope is a parasympathetic over-reaction to
>> extreme stress. Such stressors include -- but are not limited to --
>> extreme emotions, foul odors, or intense pain.
>>
>> In a vasovagal syncope, the following occurs for a very short time:
>>
>> 1. Force of the heart muscles' contractions decrease significantly
>> 2. Heart rate decreases dramatically.
>> 3. Blood vessels around the body widen
>>
>> The above 3 cause blood pressure to drop briefly but intensely. As a
>> result, the brain does not get the blood it needs and you transiently
>> lose consciousness.
>>
>> Once again, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with the claim
>> on that martial-arts website about intense pain directly causing the
>> RAS to shut consciousness off.
>
> Well, is anyone gonna respond to me? I hope so.
>
> After all, I am simply interested in science -- especially rare and
> wierd science.
>
> So please don't leave me in the dark.
>
2.4, 2.5.. Mainly based on the persistence levels..

You should familiarize yourself with the Minimum Trolling Standards we
have here on RMA..

P.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 7, 7:28 am, pboud <pboud 01NOSPA...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> 2.4, 2.5.. Mainly based on the persistence levels..
>
> You should familiarize yourself with the Minimum Trolling Standards we
> have here on RMA..

I don't troll or spam. I am simply asking scientific questions. Please
respond with reasonable answers. I know much question are eccentric,
but as I said, I am interested in wierd and rare scientific
phenomenon. So please resist the temptation to trivializer -- or joke
about -- my ever-serious questions.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite,com > wrote
>......I am simply asking scientific questions.

There aren't any 'scientific' answers- witness the long threads about
'point-knockouts' and such.
The best scientific analysis boils down to; deliberate fraud, mass
hallucinations, individual gullibility, and ignorant superstition.
--
Chas
Do the Right Thing!
http :// www .jacksandsaps,com /
(blackjacks, saps, massage tools, practice and conditioning tools)

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 7, 9:19 am, "Chas" <chascleme...@comcast,net > wrote:
> There aren't any 'scientific' answers- witness the long threads about
> 'point-knockouts' and such.
> The best scientific analysis boils down to; deliberate fraud, mass
> hallucinations, individual gullibility, and ignorant superstition.



Um, last time I checked, the reticular formation was not fake.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 8, 7:31 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
> On Feb 7, 9:19 am, "Chas" <chascleme...@comcast,net > wrote:
>
> > There aren't any 'scientific' answers- witness the long threads about
> > 'point-knockouts' and such.
> > The best scientific analysis boils down to; deliberate fraud, mass
> > hallucinations, individual gullibility, and ignorant superstition.
>
> Um, last time I checked, the reticular formation was not fake.

Well?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

WTF is no one answering my serious scientific no-nonsense
questions?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I posted only to relevant
groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is the mechanism by which pain causes the RAS to shut-off
consciousness???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It sure as f--k is not vasovagal syncope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote for http :// www .internetarmory,com /self defense.htm :

"It is speculated that various organs of the body can send pain
impulses to the brain stem indicating a severe or overwhelming bodily
injury. The reticular activating system responds by producing a
functional "shut down", which results in loss of consciousness within
a second or two."

According to the above information on that martial arts website,
severe pain can directly cause coma by shutting off the RAS. This
means that even if the link between pain and autonomic functions were
broken, excruciating pain would still cause the victim to lose
consciousness -- without syncope or any decrease perfusion of blood to
the brain. IOW, there is a direct, purely-neurological, non-cardiac,
non-circulatory, non-vascular, non-respiratory, non-autonomic, non-
endocrine, non-hormonal mechanism in which extreme agony rapidly leads
to coma. Just what is this mysterious mechanism?? Seriously?!

Sorry for my harshness but you all probably understand my extreme
extreme interest in this subject. I've been trying deathly hard to
find answers to my own questions doing my own research but I've found
*nothing*!

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Radium wrote:
> On Feb 8, 7:31 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 9:19 am, "Chas" <chascleme...@comcast,net > wrote:
>>
>>> There aren't any 'scientific' answers- witness the long threads about
>>> 'point-knockouts' and such.
>>> The best scientific analysis boils down to; deliberate fraud, mass
>>> hallucinations, individual gullibility, and ignorant superstition.
>> Um, last time I checked, the reticular formation was not fake.
>
> Well?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
>
> WTF is no one answering my serious scientific no-nonsense
> questions?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> I posted only to relevant
> groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> What is the mechanism by which pain causes the RAS to shut-off
> consciousness???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> It sure as f--k is not vasovagal syncope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Quote for http :// www .internetarmory,com /self defense.htm :
>
> "It is speculated that various organs of the body can send pain
> impulses to the brain stem indicating a severe or overwhelming bodily
> injury. The reticular activating system responds by producing a
> functional "shut down", which results in loss of consciousness within
> a second or two."
>
> According to the above information on that martial arts website,
> severe pain can directly cause coma by shutting off the RAS. This
> means that even if the link between pain and autonomic functions were
> broken, excruciating pain would still cause the victim to lose
> consciousness -- without syncope or any decrease perfusion of blood to
> the brain. IOW, there is a direct, purely-neurological, non-cardiac,
> non-circulatory, non-vascular, non-respiratory, non-autonomic, non-
> endocrine, non-hormonal mechanism in which extreme agony rapidly leads
> to coma. Just what is this mysterious mechanism?? Seriously?!
>
> Sorry for my harshness but you all probably understand my extreme
> extreme interest in this subject. I've been trying deathly hard to
> find answers to my own questions doing my own research but I've found
> *nothing*!
>
welcome to my kill file..

P.

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

On Feb 9, 11:12 am, pboud <pboud 01NOSPA...@hotmail,com > wrote:

> welcome to my kill file..

f--k you, you f--king ignorer!

Re: Pain-induced coma resulting from alteration of RAS. Real Science or Myth?

Radium wrote:
> On Feb 8, 7:31 pm, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite,com > wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 9:19 am, "Chas" <chascleme...@comcast,net > wrote:
>>
>>> There aren't any 'scientific' answers- witness the long threads about
>>> 'point-knockouts' and such.
>>> The best scientific analysis boils down to; deliberate fraud, mass
>>> hallucinations, individual gullibility, and ignorant superstition.
>> Um, last time I checked, the reticular formation was not fake.
>
> Well?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
>
> WTF is no one answering my serious scientific no-nonsense
> questions?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> I posted only to relevant
> groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> What is the mechanism by which pain causes the RAS to shut-off
> consciousness???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> It sure as f--k is not vasovagal syncope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Quote for http :// www .internetarmory,com /self defense.htm :
>
> "It is speculated that various organs of the body can send pain
> impulses to the brain stem indicating a severe or overwhelming bodily
> injury. The reticular activating system responds by producing a
> functional "shut down", which results in loss of consciousness within
> a second or two."
>
> According to the above information on that martial arts website,
> severe pain can directly cause coma by shutting off the RAS. This
> means that even if the link between pain and autonomic functions were
> broken, excruciating pain would still cause the victim to lose
> consciousness -- without syncope or any decrease perfusion of blood to
> the brain. IOW, there is a direct, purely-neurological, non-cardiac,
> non-circulatory, non-vascular, non-respiratory, non-autonomic, non-
> endocrine, non-hormonal mechanism in which extreme agony rapidly leads
> to coma. Just what is this mysterious mechanism?? Seriously?!
>
> Sorry for my harshness but you all probably understand my extreme
> extreme interest in this subject. I've been trying deathly hard to
> find answers to my own questions doing my own research but I've found
> *nothing*!

I retract my earlier response and substitute:

Sorry, but your repeated insistence, that *someone* respond with the
correct answer(s), is becoming *VERY* humorous.

--
Notan