issues with evolution and emergent behavior

issues with evolution and emergent behavior

evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
mind

free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
mechanism like biology or physics
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29

this said evolution, abiogenesis or no biological or physical mechanism
can describe free will, consciousness or the mind

one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be simply programmed
and animated existences

--
Dale
http :// www .vedantasite.org

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:08:40 -0500, Dale Kelly <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote:

>evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
>mind

Yes it can, those are virtual attributes of our evolved self model.
>

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

On Apr 15, 4:08 pm, Dale Kelly <dale.ke...@comcast,net > wrote:
> evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
> mind
>
> free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
> mechanism like biology or physics

Your foundless assertions are getting bloody tiresome. "Don't know how
yet" =/= "goddidit".

Besides - there is work in science occurring right now to examine
these things. I cannot agree with their findings always, but your god
is getting squeezed into smaller and smaller gaps.

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior


Dale Kelly wrote:
> evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
> mind

it can't explain ballet dancing, crocheting or dwarf tossing. so what?
>
> one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
> would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
> will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
> will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be simply programmed
> and animated existences
>

only if the brain is deterministic. and you haven't shown that. your
logic is so weak it's like a homeopathic soup made from the shadow of
a pigeon that starved to death.

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

On Apr 15, 10:08 am, Dale Kelly <dale.ke...@comcast,net > wrote:
> evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
> mind
>
> free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
> mechanism like biology or physics http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free will http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism %28philosophy of mind%29
>
> this said evolution, abiogenesis or no biological or physical mechanism
> can describe free will, consciousness or the mind
>
> one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
> would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
> will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
> will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be simply programmed
> and animated existences
>
> --
> Dale http :// www .vedantasite.org

And yet the evidence shows that evolution did occur, and so it
accounts for whatever aspects of life do exist.

Rodjk #613

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

In article <pan.2007.04.15.06.09.40@comcast,net >,
Dale Kelly <dale.kelly@comcast,net > writes:
> evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
> mind
>
> free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
> mechanism like biology or physics
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29
>
> this said evolution, abiogenesis or no biological or physical mechanism
> can describe free will, consciousness or the mind
>
> one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
> would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
> will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
> will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be

smoked, like the poor plant that inspired you to this rant.

--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada

Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior


"Bobby Bryant" <bdbryant@wherever.ur> wrote in message
news:LSlUh.14993$JZ3.2126@newssvr13.news.prodigy,net ...
| In article <pan.2007.04.15.06.09.40@comcast,net >,
| Dale Kelly <dale.kelly@comcast,net > writes:
| > evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or
the
| > mind
| >
| > free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
| > mechanism like biology or physics
| > http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
| > http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29
| >
| > this said evolution, abiogenesis or no biological or physical mechanism
| > can describe free will, consciousness or the mind
| >
| > one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
| > would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
| > will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
| > will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be
|
| smoked, like the poor plant that inspired you to this rant.
| --
| Bobby Bryant

LOL. Nice one Bobby!

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

On Apr 15, 1:08 am, Dale Kelly <dale.ke...@comcast,net > wrote:
> evolution cannot explain the emergence of free will, consciousness or the
> mind
>
> free will is indeterminate and cannot result from any determinate
> mechanism like biology or physics http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free will http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism %28philosophy of mind%29
>
> this said evolution, abiogenesis or no biological or physical mechanism
> can describe free will, consciousness or the mind
>
> one might ask whether evolution can account for our bodies, yet how well
> would our bodies exist in the environment without a relationship to free
> will, it seems most likely that our bodies were designed for use by free
> will, otherwise they would act like poor plants, and be simply programmed
> and animated existences
>
> --
> Dale http :// www .vedantasite.org

Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
consciousness or a mind?

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:

> Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
> have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
> consciousness or a mind?--

yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
reincarnation


--
Dale
http :// www .vedantasite.org

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior


"Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.15.12.54.31@comcast,net ...
| On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:
|
| > Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
| > have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
| > consciousness or a mind?--
|
| yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
| just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
| reincarnation

And Hindus have believed this for thousands of years so it must be true,
right?

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

In article <58esthF2ghceuU1@mid.individual,net >,
"Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote:

> "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.04.15.12.54.31@comcast,net ...
> | On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:
> |
> | > Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
> | > have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
> | > consciousness or a mind?--
> |
> | yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
> | just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
> | reincarnation
>
> And Hindus have believed this for thousands of years so it must be true,
> right?

Well, no, actually, they have not believed this. But they and the
Buddhists have researched it longer than Dale Kelly has, so I'd pay more
attention to them.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http :// www .timberwoof,com
Level 1 Linux technical support: Read The Fscking Manual!
Level 2 Linux technical support: Write The Fscking Code Yourself!

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior


"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft,com > wrote in message news:
| "Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote:
| > "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
| > | On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:
| > |
| > | > Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
| > | > have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
| > | > consciousness or a mind?--
| > |
| > | yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
| > | just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
| > | reincarnation
| >
| > And Hindus have believed this for thousands of years so it must be true,
| > right?
|
| Well, no, actually, they have not believed this.

Hindus don't believe this? That's news to me.

| But they and the
| Buddhists have researched it longer than Dale Kelly has, so I'd pay more
| attention to them.

As a Buddhist myself who has researched the question quite deaply, I am
aware that the common Buddhist in the street often has beliefs similar to or
overlapping with Hindu beliefs, but this is not what The Buddha taught. He
did, however, teach that it is harmless to have these beliefs, and also
permissable to pray to worldly gods for worldly things.
--
"I fought the Dharma, and the Dharma won." (Allen Ginsberg)

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

In article <58fi4oF2cl4pbU1@mid.individual,net >,
"Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote:

> "Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft,com > wrote in message news:
> | "Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote:
> | > "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
> | > | On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:
> | > |
> | > | > Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
> | > | > have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
> | > | > consciousness or a mind?--
> | > |
> | > | yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
> | > | just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
> | > | reincarnation
> | >
> | > And Hindus have believed this for thousands of years so it must be true,
> | > right?
> |
> | Well, no, actually, they have not believed this.
>
> Hindus don't believe this? That's news to me.

Well, okay. I was splitting hairs between certain and any. Beings do
gain from experiences in different incarnations.

> | But they and the
> | Buddhists have researched it longer than Dale Kelly has, so I'd pay more
> | attention to them.
>
> As a Buddhist myself who has researched the question quite deaply, I am
> aware that the common Buddhist in the street often has beliefs similar to or
> overlapping with Hindu beliefs, but this is not what The Buddha taught. He
> did, however, teach that it is harmless to have these beliefs, and also
> permissable to pray to worldly gods for worldly things.

Yeah, that's one of the things I like about Buddhism: It plays well with
others. :-)

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http :// www .timberwoof,com
Level 1 Linux technical support: Read The Fscking Manual!
Level 2 Linux technical support: Write The Fscking Code Yourself!

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

In article <pan.2007.04.15.12.54.31@comcast,net >,
Dale Kelly <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:08:12 -0700, Craig T wrote:
>
> > Help us narrow down what you are talking about. You say plants don't
> > have free will. Do all animals have it? Do apes have free will,
> > consciousness or a mind?--
>
> yes, all animals have the same free will, consciousness and mind, they
> just have not reaped the rewards of certain experiences throughout
> reincarnation

How do you know? Many Buddhists disagree with you, and they've studied
the subject longer than you have.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http :// www .timberwoof,com
Level 1 Linux technical support: Read The Fscking Manual!
Level 2 Linux technical support: Write The Fscking Code Yourself!

Re: issues with evolution and emergent behavior

Et tu Brute?

"You can't explain why I just rolled 3 on a standard die, therefore
Cthulhu!"

Oh well, keep on the good work of showing all the world what morons you
jebus cultists are.

--
Romans 2:24 revised:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
cretinists, as it is written on aig."

My personal judgment of monotheism: http :// www .carcosa.de/nojebus