responsibility and free will

Re: responsibility and free will

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:

> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
> harm us.--

how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their choice?
this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of

this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics


--
Dale
http :// www .vedantasite.org

Re: responsibility and free will


"Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.09.08.20.32@comcast,net ...
| On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
|
| > Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
| > harm us.--
|
| how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their choice?
| this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
| people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of
|
| this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
| http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Hitler had no interest in such things until he was was recruited by the
Nazis after being discharged from the army after WW1.
As a wannabe artist and outsider his best friends were Jews until he came
under the influence of the Nazis and their pseudo-scientific perversion of
eugenics.
Scientific eugenics is value free and is a good idea.
Jews have practiced eugenics for 3000 years which accounts for their
superiority.
The Nazis feared the Jews and labeled them as sub-human because they were so
successful.
--
Spencer Manchester UK

Evolution is a harsh mistress.

http :// www .euvolution,com /links.htm

Re: responsibility and free will


"Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote in message
news:57uv8sF2ekjhgU1@mid.individual,net ...
|
| "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
| news:pan.2007.04.09.08.20.32@comcast,net ...
|| On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
||
|| > Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
|| > harm us.--
||
|| how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their choice?
|| this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
|| people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of
||
|| this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
|| http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
|
| Hitler had no interest in such things until he was was recruited by the
| Nazis after being discharged from the army after WW1.
| As a wannabe artist and outsider his best friends were Jews until he came
| under the influence of the Nazis and their pseudo-scientific perversion of
| eugenics.
| Scientific eugenics is value free and is a good idea.
| Jews have practiced eugenics for 3000 years which accounts for their
| superiority.
| The Nazis feared the Jews and labeled them as sub-human because they were
so
| successful.
| --
| Spencer Manchester UK
|
| Evolution is a harsh mistress.
|
| http :// www .euvolution,com /links.htm

More from :- http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
Pro-eugenics websites
a.. Eugenics - a planned evolution for life
b.. Future Generations Eugenics Portal
c.. Millennium Eugenics Section
d.. Mankind Quarterly
e.. Future Human Evolution: Eugenics in the Twenty-First Century by John
Glad
f.. Creative Conscious Evolution: A Eugenics Directory
g.. Scandalizing the Science of Eugenics, editor's note, The Occidental
Quarterly 4:1 (Spring 2004).

[edit] Other
a.. "As Gene Test Menu Grows, Who Gets to Choose?" Amy Harmon, New York
Times (21 July 2004).
b.. "The Crimson Rivers" -- a fiction movie in 2000.
c.. Yale Study: U.S. Eugenics Paralleled Nazi Germany by David Morgan
Published on Tuesday, February 15, 2000 in the Chicago Tribune
d.. Eugenics: past, present, and the future

Re: responsibility and free will

On Apr 9, 4:19 am, Dale Kelly <dale.ke...@comcast,net > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
> > Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
> > harm us.--
>
> how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their choice?
> this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
> people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of
>
> this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
>
> --
> Dale http :// www .vedantasite.org

You see, kid.
At the very least we have the illusion of free will. Now, I'm not
saying it is in fact an illusion. I'm just saying that any rational
person (in my opinion), even a hardcore determinist, will at the very
least have to admit just that; That at the very least we all have the
illusion of free will.
In order for society to function we agree on certain things, like free-
will. Its like one of those "Holy Lies" that Nietzsche wrote about.
Anyway, what is it about these things that frighten you? I mean you
wouldn't be posting all of this stuff about free will if the thought
of not having free will didn't scare the bejeesus out of you.
Also, do you realize how much stuff has been written about free will?
Alot. Like at least 4 books, if not more! Now I've really only read
the core texts, mostly for various philosophy classes. Its the same
thing with that someoneN character. If you're going to argue about
something you should see what other people have said about it in the
past. Savy?
Am I wrong?

Re: responsibility and free will

On Apr 9, 6:57 pm, "Woland" <jerryd...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> Also, do you realize how much stuff has been written about free will?
> Alot. Like at least 4 books, if not more! Now I've really only read
> the core texts, mostly for various philosophy classes. Its the same
> thing with that someoneN character. If you're going to argue about
> something you should see what other people have said about it in the
> past. Savy?
> Am I wrong?
Bwa ha ha ha ha. Hold on there! At least 5 books, 4 comics, 3 sitcoms,
2 youtube clips and 1 teletubby episode.
Hoooo boy!

Re: responsibility and free will


"Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.09.08.20.32@comcast,net ...
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
>
>> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
>> harm us.--
>
> how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their choice?

By holding them accountable.

> this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
> people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of

No. I'm saying treat them as if they're responsible for their actions.

Do you have a problem with that?

> this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Only if you're an idiot.


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io,com
http :// www .io,com /~dloubet
http :// www .ashenempires,com

Re: responsibility and free will


"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io,com > wrote in message
news:YNGdnVFF5frEgYbbnZ2dnUVZ_oipnZ2d@io,com ...
|
| "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
| news:pan.2007.04.09.08.20.32@comcast,net ...
| > On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
| >
| >> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
| >> harm us.--
| >
| > how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their
choice?
|
| By holding them accountable.
|
| > this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
| > people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of
|
| No. I'm saying treat them as if they're responsible for their actions.
|
| Do you have a problem with that?

Well yes. Isn't it unfair, unjust, cruel and unethical?

| > this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
| > http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
|
| Only if you're an idiot.

No problem with that.
--
spencer

Half of the lies, they tell about me, are not true.

| Denis Loubet
| dloubet@io,com
| http :// www .io,com /~dloubet
| http :// www .ashenempires,com

Re: responsibility and free will


"Spencer ©¿©¬" <qsx1@supahat,com > wrote in message
news:581fs4F2em1ghU1@mid.individual,net ...
>
> "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io,com > wrote in message
> news:YNGdnVFF5frEgYbbnZ2dnUVZ_oipnZ2d@io,com ...
> |
> | "Dale Kelly" <dale.kelly@comcast,net > wrote in message
> | news:pan.2007.04.09.08.20.32@comcast,net ...
> | > On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:28:05 -0600, Denis Loubet wrote:
> | >
> | >> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime
> doesn't
> | >> harm us.--
> | >
> | > how can you hold someone accountable for things that aren't their
> choice?
> |
> | By holding them accountable.
> |
> | > this is like saying the legal system is about pest control and that
> | > people with differences are just pests that society needs to be rid of
> |
> | No. I'm saying treat them as if they're responsible for their actions.
> |
> | Do you have a problem with that?
>
> Well yes. Isn't it unfair, unjust, cruel and unethical?

Apparently not.

> | > this sort of thinking has led to eugenics and ethnic cleansing before
> | > http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
> |
> | Only if you're an idiot.
>
> No problem with that.


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io,com
http :// www .io,com /~dloubet
http :// www .ashenempires,com

Re: responsibility and free will

> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't harm
> us.

There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
concepts based on free will. Idiot.

> > Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
>
> And you are one of them, as am I.

Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
just evil. Worthless human.

> > Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
> > They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
> > stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
> > they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
> > hope they aren't showed up.

> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
> you admit that's a possibility?

As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
"Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
subject in the first place.

> > These people really are scum.
>
> Or perhaps you're projecting.

No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.

> > They will burn in hell for their lies.
> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a dung
> beetle. Or just be dead.

There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
you are evil.

Re: responsibility and free will

collection60@googlemail,com wrote:
>> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't harm
>> us.
>
> There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
> concepts based on free will. Idiot.
>
>>> Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
>> And you are one of them, as am I.
>
> Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
> just evil. Worthless human.
>
>>> Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
>>> They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
>>> stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
>>> they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
>>> hope they aren't showed up.
>
>> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
>> you admit that's a possibility?
>
> As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
> "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
> subject in the first place.
>
>>> These people really are scum.
>> Or perhaps you're projecting.
>
> No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.
>
>>> They will burn in hell for their lies.
>> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a dung
>> beetle. Or just be dead.
>
> There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
> you are evil.
>
>

Looky, looky!

Denis has collected a pet kook...

--
Seppo P.
What's wrong with Theocracy? (a Finnish Taliban, Oct 1, 2005)

Re: responsibility and free will

On Apr 9, 1:46 pm, SeppoP <seppo pietikai...@xyahoox,com > wrote:
> collectio...@googlemail,com wrote:
> >> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't harm
> >> us.
>
> > There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
> > concepts based on free will. Idiot.
>
> >>> Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
> >> And you are one of them, as am I.
>
> > Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
> > just evil. Worthless human.
>
> >>> Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
> >>> They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
> >>> stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
> >>> they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
> >>> hope they aren't showed up.
>
> >> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
> >> you admit that's a possibility?
>
> > As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
> > "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
> > subject in the first place.
>
> >>> These people really are scum.
> >> Or perhaps you're projecting.
>
> > No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.
>
> >>> They will burn in hell for their lies.
> >> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a dung
> >> beetle. Or just be dead.
>
> > There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
> > you are evil.
>
> Looky, looky!
>
> Denis has collected a pet kook...

Yes. It's you.

Re: responsibility and free will

collection60@googlemail,com wrote:
> On Apr 9, 1:46 pm, SeppoP <seppo pietikai...@xyahoox,com > wrote:
>> collectio...@googlemail,com wrote:
>>>> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't harm
>>>> us.
>>> There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
>>> concepts based on free will. Idiot.
>>>>> Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
>>>> And you are one of them, as am I.
>>> Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
>>> just evil. Worthless human.
>>>>> Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
>>>>> They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
>>>>> stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
>>>>> they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
>>>>> hope they aren't showed up.
>>>> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
>>>> you admit that's a possibility?
>>> As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
>>> "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
>>> subject in the first place.
>>>>> These people really are scum.
>>>> Or perhaps you're projecting.
>>> No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.
>>>>> They will burn in hell for their lies.
>>>> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a dung
>>>> beetle. Or just be dead.
>>> There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
>>> you are evil.
>> Looky, looky!
>>
>> Denis has collected a pet kook...
>
> Yes. It's you.
>

Heh, somehow I doubt that...

--
Seppo P.
What's wrong with Theocracy? (a Finnish Taliban, Oct 1, 2005)

Re: responsibility and free will

On Apr 9, 5:22 pm, SeppoP <seppo pietikai...@xyahoox,com > wrote:
> collectio...@googlemail,com wrote:
> > On Apr 9, 1:46 pm, SeppoP <seppo pietikai...@xyahoox,com > wrote:
> >> collectio...@googlemail,com wrote:
> >>>> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't harm
> >>>> us.
> >>> There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
> >>> concepts based on free will. Idiot.
> >>>>> Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
> >>>> And you are one of them, as am I.
> >>> Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
> >>> just evil. Worthless human.
> >>>>> Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
> >>>>> They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
> >>>>> stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
> >>>>> they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
> >>>>> hope they aren't showed up.
> >>>> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
> >>>> you admit that's a possibility?
> >>> As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
> >>> "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
> >>> subject in the first place.
> >>>>> These people really are scum.
> >>>> Or perhaps you're projecting.
> >>> No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.
> >>>>> They will burn in hell for their lies.
> >>>> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a dung
> >>>> beetle. Or just be dead.
> >>> There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
> >>> you are evil.
> >> Looky, looky!
>
> >> Denis has collected a pet kook...
>
> > Yes. It's you.
>
> Heh, somehow I doubt that...

You've already proven yourself to be mentally incapacitated, so your
doubts are worthless.

Re: responsibility and free will


<collection60@googlemail,com > wrote in message
news:1176134865.227412.176640@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups,com ...
> On Apr 9, 1:46 pm, SeppoP <seppo_pietikai...@xyahoox,com > wrote:
>> collectio...@googlemail,com wrote:
>> >> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime
>> >> doesn't harm
>> >> us.
>>
>> > There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
>> > concepts based on free will. Idiot.
>>
>> >>> Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
>> >> And you are one of them, as am I.
>>
>> > Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
>> > just evil. Worthless human.
>>
>> >>> Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
>> >>> They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
>> >>> stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
>> >>> they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
>> >>> hope they aren't showed up.
>>
>> >> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong.
>> >> Will
>> >> you admit that's a possibility?
>>
>> > As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.
>> > "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
>> > subject in the first place.
>>
>> >>> These people really are scum.
>> >> Or perhaps you're projecting.
>>
>> > No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.
>>
>> >>> They will burn in hell for their lies.
>> >> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a
>> >> dung
>> >> beetle. Or just be dead.
>>
>> > There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
>> > you are evil.
>>
>> Looky, looky!
>>
>> Denis has collected a pet kook...
>
> Yes. It's you.

I guess that's what passes for wit in your village.


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io,com
http :// www .io,com /~dloubet
http :// www .ashenempires,com

Re: responsibility and free will


<collection60@googlemail,com > wrote in message
news:1176122261.741018.148370@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups,com ...
>> Well yeah, just because we have no free will doesn't mean crime doesn't
>> harm
>> us.
>
> There is no crime without free will. So your sentance still relies on
> concepts based on free will. Idiot.

There is no insult without free will, so your sentence still relies on
concepts based on free will, idiot.

And no, it relies on what makes us suffer and what makes us happy, and those
things don't change with the knowledge that everything's determined.

>> > Crazy. Humans are such self-contradictory liars.
>>
>> And you are one of them, as am I.
>
> Not really. I am too good to be associated with your type. You are
> just evil. Worthless human.

Ok, are you animal, vegetable, or mineral? I'm torn between guessing
vegetable or mineral.

>> > Also, don't worry about the retards giving you retarded responses.
>> > They are just retards hoping to fool themselves that they aren't
>> > stupid. Incapable of responding to intelligence with intelligence,
>> > they try to push you down to their level. At least that they, they
>> > hope they aren't showed up.
>
>> Or perhaps they're accurate in their observations, and you're wrong. Will
>> you admit that's a possibility?
>
> As soon as you admit you don't even know what you are talking about.

How about a compromise? I'll admit that I can be wrong if you'll admit that
you can be wrong. Sounds fair and accurate.

> "Maybe they are right" yeah sure. You don't even understand the
> subject in the first place.

You've yet to establish your credentials, so I fail to see a problem.

>> > These people really are scum.
>>
>> Or perhaps you're projecting.
>
> No, you are projecting that I'm projecting. Because you are evil.

Or perhaps you're wrong, and it's you that's evil? Who knows.

>> > They will burn in hell for their lies.
>> And perhaps you will burn in the Moslem hell. Or be reincarnated as a
>> dung
>> beetle. Or just be dead.
>
> There is no perhaps. Only absolutes. And it is absolutely true that
> you are evil.

Then why are you talking to me? Do you want to be evil too?


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io,com
http :// www .io,com /~dloubet
http :// www .ashenempires,com