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Flu jab maker admits its useless
Flu jab maker admits its useless
[True classic from Relenza salesman: 'Dr Laver, who receives royalties from
the sale of Relenza.' How's this for an oxymoron on the useless flu jab: "It
is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take it,
but you can't rely on it doing any good."
Even the old makers admit flu jab is useless, not the first time
http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
Flu jab inventor warns of killer epidemic - but claims his vaccine could be
powerless to stop it
http :// www .dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=496095&in_page_id=1770
By FIONA MacRAE - More by this author » Last updated at 20:57pm on 23rd
November 2007
Flu could claim tens of thousands of lives this winter and vaccine will do
little to stop it, warns the jab's inventor.
Dr Graeme Laver believes an exceptionally-severe outbreak is likely.
And although 15 million Britons a year receive the flu jab, he says it does
not guarantee protection.
Drugs which fight the virus once it has struck, such as Tamiflu and Relenza,
must be made available over the counter, he insists.
Highlighting flaws in the vaccine which he co-developed more than 40 years
ago, Australian Dr Laver said: "I have never been very impressed with its
efficacy.
"It is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take
it, but you can't rely on it doing any good."
Dr Laver said the best way to protect public health was to make Tamiflu and
Relenza readily available to all who need them.
Currently available only on prescription, the flu medicines are most
effective if taken soon after the onset of symptoms, meaning valuable time
is likely to be lost if patients have to wait for a doctor's appointment.
Sold over the counter in pharmacies, they could save hundreds of lives, said
Dr Laver.
Influenza claims 12,000 lives a year in the UK, but in severe outbreaks the
number can rise to 20,000. Dr Laver warned that outbreaks tend to follow a
pattern, with an extra-bad flu season in Australia this year likely to be a
portent of problems in the UK.
The former professor of biochemistry at the Australian National University
in Canberra said: "If the seasonal flu is as bad as it was in Australia, you
are in for a pretty bad time.
"You could have a really severe epidemic. Thousands will be ill and many
will die. Doesn't anyone care? The safe and effective anti-flu drugs could,
if used correctly, avoid much of this distress."
Three times as many Australians caught flu this year as last, with even fit
young adults badly affected. New South Wales alone saw more than 800 deaths
from pneumonia, a common complication of flu, in just five weeks in June and
July.
Experts speculated that several winters of mild flu outbreaks had left the
population with little immunity to the bug.
Britain has also had fewer cases of flu than usual in recent years, meaning
millions are vulnerable to infection.
Dr Laver, who receives royalties from the sale of Relenza but not the
betterselling Tamiflu, said many children died in this year's Australian
outbreak.
"In a true example of what happened, a lady in Adelaide experienced flu
symptoms on a Monday and was sent home from work. She took paracetamol, went
to bed, and was dead by Tuesday evening.
"If that unfortunate lady had taken Tamiflu, instead of paracetamol, she
might still be alive today. But almost certainly she knew nothing of
Tamiflu, and even if she had, she would never have been able to get it
quickly enough to save her. That's not good enough."
Only New Zealand makes Tamiflu available over the counter. In the UK,
restrictions on the prescription of the drugs are eased slightly during
severe outbreaks but their use is still limited.
The drug safety watchdog, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory
Agency, said it was up to drug manufacturers to approach it about changes in
how their products are sold.
A spokesman added that large-scale safety tests would be needed before a
drug was downgraded from prescription only to over-the-counter sale.
Other scientists remain adamant that the flu jab is effective. Britain's
leading expert, Professor John Oxford, said: "Huge clinical trials have
shown that not only are there fewer deaths from respiratory conditions among
the vaccinated, there are fewer deaths from heart attack and stroke.
"The vaccine scores positively all the time, however you look at it.
"We do not want anything to put people off being vaccinated."
[True classic from Relenza salesman: 'Dr Laver, who receives royalties from
the sale of Relenza.' How's this for an oxymoron on the useless flu jab: "It
is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take it,
but you can't rely on it doing any good."
Even the old makers admit flu jab is useless, not the first time
http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
Flu jab inventor warns of killer epidemic - but claims his vaccine could be
powerless to stop it
http :// www .dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=496095&in_page_id=1770
By FIONA MacRAE - More by this author » Last updated at 20:57pm on 23rd
November 2007
Flu could claim tens of thousands of lives this winter and vaccine will do
little to stop it, warns the jab's inventor.
Dr Graeme Laver believes an exceptionally-severe outbreak is likely.
And although 15 million Britons a year receive the flu jab, he says it does
not guarantee protection.
Drugs which fight the virus once it has struck, such as Tamiflu and Relenza,
must be made available over the counter, he insists.
Highlighting flaws in the vaccine which he co-developed more than 40 years
ago, Australian Dr Laver said: "I have never been very impressed with its
efficacy.
"It is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take
it, but you can't rely on it doing any good."
Dr Laver said the best way to protect public health was to make Tamiflu and
Relenza readily available to all who need them.
Currently available only on prescription, the flu medicines are most
effective if taken soon after the onset of symptoms, meaning valuable time
is likely to be lost if patients have to wait for a doctor's appointment.
Sold over the counter in pharmacies, they could save hundreds of lives, said
Dr Laver.
Influenza claims 12,000 lives a year in the UK, but in severe outbreaks the
number can rise to 20,000. Dr Laver warned that outbreaks tend to follow a
pattern, with an extra-bad flu season in Australia this year likely to be a
portent of problems in the UK.
The former professor of biochemistry at the Australian National University
in Canberra said: "If the seasonal flu is as bad as it was in Australia, you
are in for a pretty bad time.
"You could have a really severe epidemic. Thousands will be ill and many
will die. Doesn't anyone care? The safe and effective anti-flu drugs could,
if used correctly, avoid much of this distress."
Three times as many Australians caught flu this year as last, with even fit
young adults badly affected. New South Wales alone saw more than 800 deaths
from pneumonia, a common complication of flu, in just five weeks in June and
July.
Experts speculated that several winters of mild flu outbreaks had left the
population with little immunity to the bug.
Britain has also had fewer cases of flu than usual in recent years, meaning
millions are vulnerable to infection.
Dr Laver, who receives royalties from the sale of Relenza but not the
betterselling Tamiflu, said many children died in this year's Australian
outbreak.
"In a true example of what happened, a lady in Adelaide experienced flu
symptoms on a Monday and was sent home from work. She took paracetamol, went
to bed, and was dead by Tuesday evening.
"If that unfortunate lady had taken Tamiflu, instead of paracetamol, she
might still be alive today. But almost certainly she knew nothing of
Tamiflu, and even if she had, she would never have been able to get it
quickly enough to save her. That's not good enough."
Only New Zealand makes Tamiflu available over the counter. In the UK,
restrictions on the prescription of the drugs are eased slightly during
severe outbreaks but their use is still limited.
The drug safety watchdog, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory
Agency, said it was up to drug manufacturers to approach it about changes in
how their products are sold.
A spokesman added that large-scale safety tests would be needed before a
drug was downgraded from prescription only to over-the-counter sale.
Other scientists remain adamant that the flu jab is effective. Britain's
leading expert, Professor John Oxford, said: "Huge clinical trials have
shown that not only are there fewer deaths from respiratory conditions among
the vaccinated, there are fewer deaths from heart attack and stroke.
"The vaccine scores positively all the time, however you look at it.
"We do not want anything to put people off being vaccinated."
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
JOHN wrote:
> [True classic from Relenza salesman: 'Dr Laver, who receives royalties from
> the sale of Relenza.' How's this for an oxymoron on the useless flu jab: "It
> is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take it,
> but you can't rely on it doing any good."
>
> Even the old makers admit flu jab is useless, not the first time
> http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
>
> Flu jab inventor warns of killer epidemic - but claims his vaccine could be
> powerless to stop it
>
> http :// www .dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in article idI6095&in page id70
>
> By FIONA MacRAE - More by this author » Last updated at 20:57pm on 23rd
> November 2007
> Flu could claim tens of thousands of lives this winter and vaccine will do
> little to stop it, warns the jab's inventor.
>
> Dr Graeme Laver believes an exceptionally-severe outbreak is likely.
>
> And although 15 million Britons a year receive the flu jab, he says it does
> not guarantee protection.
The condom doesn't guarantee that its users won't become parents, but
that doesn't mean that it is useless.
Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine,
the vaccine is far from useless.
<...>
Jeff
JOHN wrote:
> [True classic from Relenza salesman: 'Dr Laver, who receives royalties from
> the sale of Relenza.' How's this for an oxymoron on the useless flu jab: "It
> is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take it,
> but you can't rely on it doing any good."
>
> Even the old makers admit flu jab is useless, not the first time
> http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
>
> Flu jab inventor warns of killer epidemic - but claims his vaccine could be
> powerless to stop it
>
> http :// www .dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in article idI6095&in page id70
>
> By FIONA MacRAE - More by this author » Last updated at 20:57pm on 23rd
> November 2007
> Flu could claim tens of thousands of lives this winter and vaccine will do
> little to stop it, warns the jab's inventor.
>
> Dr Graeme Laver believes an exceptionally-severe outbreak is likely.
>
> And although 15 million Britons a year receive the flu jab, he says it does
> not guarantee protection.
The condom doesn't guarantee that its users won't become parents, but
that doesn't mean that it is useless.
Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine,
the vaccine is far from useless.
<...>
Jeff
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:UD%1j.4136$Mr.277@trnddc04...
>
> Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
> immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine, the
> vaccine is far from useless.
http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
No, its way way worse than useless, seeing as it kills
"It is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take
it, but you can't rely on it doing any good."
"It is unquestionable that flu vaccination is not only useless but also
costly. And it is a 'surprise' only to those who obstinately ignore reality
or who still harbour illusions because they are poorly or totally uninformed
on this vaccination (and other vaccinations)."---Official French document
"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is
effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers
of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them,
anyway."------Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formely Chief Vaccine Control Officer
at the FDA) http :// alacercorp,com /aflu.htm
"In the course of a vaccination trial that took place in France on October
1st, 1981, Professor Mercie, former director of the glamorous Pasteur
Institute, was asked why the Institute kept producing and selling its
anti-'flu vaccine despite its recognized worthlessness. Professor Mercie's
candid reply: 'Because it helps financing the Institute's research'." -
(Hans Ruesch, Naked Empress p81)
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:UD%1j.4136$Mr.277@trnddc04...
>
> Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
> immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine, the
> vaccine is far from useless.
http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
No, its way way worse than useless, seeing as it kills
"It is better than nothing and I wouldn't want to advise people not to take
it, but you can't rely on it doing any good."
"It is unquestionable that flu vaccination is not only useless but also
costly. And it is a 'surprise' only to those who obstinately ignore reality
or who still harbour illusions because they are poorly or totally uninformed
on this vaccination (and other vaccinations)."---Official French document
"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is
effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers
of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them,
anyway."------Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formely Chief Vaccine Control Officer
at the FDA) http :// alacercorp,com /aflu.htm
"In the course of a vaccination trial that took place in France on October
1st, 1981, Professor Mercie, former director of the glamorous Pasteur
Institute, was asked why the Institute kept producing and selling its
anti-'flu vaccine despite its recognized worthlessness. Professor Mercie's
candid reply: 'Because it helps financing the Institute's research'." -
(Hans Ruesch, Naked Empress p81)
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:UD%1j.4136$Mr.277@trnddc04...
>
>> Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
>> immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine, the
>> vaccine is far from useless.
>
> http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
>
> No, its way way worse than useless, seeing as it kills
The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
Jeff
<rest of garbage deleted>
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:UD%1j.4136$Mr.277@trnddc04...
>
>> Likewise, no vaccine guarentees protection, but, both by providing herd
>> immunity and by providing immunity to most people who get the vaccine, the
>> vaccine is far from useless.
>
> http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu.html
>
> No, its way way worse than useless, seeing as it kills
The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
Jeff
<rest of garbage deleted>
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:474893B2.5000007@hotmail,com ...
>
> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
> The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
> science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
ad hominem, aka no argument
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:474893B2.5000007@hotmail,com ...
>
> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
> The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
> science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
ad hominem, aka no argument
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:474893B2.5000007@hotmail,com ...
>
>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>
> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>> The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
>> science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
>
> ad hominem, aka no argument
It is not ad hominem, rather, it is an accurate assessment of the person
who put together the site. Did you ever wonder why the person fails to
put his or her name on the site? I would be very embarrassed to put my
name on the site.
Jeff
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:474893B2.5000007@hotmail,com ...
>
>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>
> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>> The whale site a sad site put together by someone who has no clue about
>> science, medicine, immunology or vaccines.
>
> ad hominem, aka no argument
It is not ad hominem, rather, it is an accurate assessment of the person
who put together the site. Did you ever wonder why the person fails to
put his or her name on the site? I would be very embarrassed to put my
name on the site.
Jeff
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:mQ02j.4540$Mr.4182@trnddc04...
>>
>>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>>
>> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
>> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
>> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
>
> The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>
you are, the well know pharma liar, as I proved above
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:mQ02j.4540$Mr.4182@trnddc04...
>>
>>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>>
>> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
>> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
>> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
>
> The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>
you are, the well know pharma liar, as I proved above
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:mQ02j.4540$Mr.4182@trnddc04...
>
>>>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>>> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
>>> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
>>> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
>> The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>>
>
> you are, the well know pharma liar, as I proved above
A pharma liar? I hate the way pharmaceutical companies advertise to
patients and doctors. I get no money whatsoever from any drug company.
The opinions expressed are solely the opinions of myself.
Disagreeing with you doesn't make me an agent of drug companies.
Jeff
JOHN wrote:
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:mQ02j.4540$Mr.4182@trnddc04...
>
>>>> The only thing it kills is the virus that causes influenza.
>>> lie http :// www .whale.to/vaccines/flu644.html
>>> http :// www .whale.to/a/flushot.html http :// www .whale.to/vaccine/flu4.html
>>> http :// www .whale.to/v/flu1.html
>> The whale is laughing stock of the internet.
>>
>
> you are, the well know pharma liar, as I proved above
A pharma liar? I hate the way pharmaceutical companies advertise to
patients and doctors. I get no money whatsoever from any drug company.
The opinions expressed are solely the opinions of myself.
Disagreeing with you doesn't make me an agent of drug companies.
Jeff
Re: Flu jab maker admits its useless
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> The opinions expressed are solely the opinions of myself.
http :// www .whale.to/m/putz.html
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> The opinions expressed are solely the opinions of myself.
http :// www .whale.to/m/putz.html
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