Immune Defence & Cancer?

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

On Apr 14, 7:57 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2:23 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 12, 8:28 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 11, 10:07 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 12, 12:18 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 10, 9:55 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Apr 11, 7:43 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Apr 9, 10:50 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Hello,
>
> > > > > > > > It can be bit odd to think, that our defence immune response=
may not
> > > > > > > > be doing anything hard to cure cancer. Cancer immunotherapie=
s are also
> > > > > > > > aimed by aiding to increasing immune response. However, as c=
ancer
> > > > > > > > cells comes from our own cells, immune response can miss or =
be
> > > > > > > > mistaken.
>
> > > > > > > > As such, will you tell:-
>
> > > > > > > > How & when host immune defence is able to recognize that can=
cer cells
> > > > > > > > are being odd cells to body & start defence response against=
them?
>
> > > > > > > > Whether cancerous tumor or cancer's dormant/non-metastatic s=
tate is
> > > > > > > > cancer cells mediated or immune defence response mediated?
>
> > > > > > > > Some indications are there that withholding of iron and may =
be of
> > > > > > > > other nutrients to cancer cells and other pathogens occur du=
ring
> > > > > > > > various states. So this should be immune defence response me=
diated.
>
> > > > > > > > Best wishes.
>
> > > > > > > Immune system defense is helpful when the patient makes the mi=
stake of
> > > > > > > getting chemo, since chemo is destructive to the immune system=
and
> > > > > > > frequently kills the patient. Immune defense is not very helpf=
ul
> > > > > > > against cancer cells, although many herbs have both pro-immune=
and
> > > > > > > anti-cancer properties.
>
> > > > > > > The best to you.
>
> > > > > > > Kelley- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > As normal cells become cancer cells, there can be delay in immun=
e
> > > > > > defence response. I wany to check how and when immune defence is=
able
> > > > > > to recognize cancer cells and start working against them.
>
> > > > > Normal cells don't become cancer cells. Cancer cells are trophobla=
st
> > > > > cells. With the correct pH they remain inactive.- Hide quoted text=
-
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > "Trophoblasts are invasive, eroding, and metastasizing cells of the
> > > > placenta.
>
> > > > Trophoblasts mediate the implantation of the embryo into the
> > > > endometrium, but they are **never incorporated into the mother's bod=
y
> > > > or the fetus. They are not "fetal" cells.**
>
> > > > Trophoblasts become inert during pregnancy and are completely reject=
ed
> > > > by the fetus and mother at delivery. They can be seen as the thin
> > > > membrane covering the fetus at birth, the * en.wikipedia.org/wik=
i/Trophoblast"
>
> > > > **How they can?
>
> > > You need to understand that when it comes to controversial topics
> > > regarding cancer and other health subjects, Wikipedia tows the line.
> > > Trophoblasts and cancer are one of those controversial subjects.- Hide=
quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Many currently considered aspects can be unclear or contraversial. For
> > this reason, these discussions may help.
>
> > My first question still pending, when/how immune defence recognize
> > cancer cells as odd cells & start responding on them.
>
> It's possible that the immune system MIGHT help to prevent a cancer
> from getting started. This would be before the cancer is known to
> exist in the person. In other words, there is the possibility that the
> immune system could help to prevent a cancer cell from fully
> activating. Nitric oxide has the ability, for example, to turn off
> cancer cells according to some research. (It's been years since I read
> about it, so I don't have a link.)
Thanks. Is it direct Nitric Oxide or its vasorelaxing effect or
increasing transcapillary movements by endotheliul function which can
turn off cancer cells?

As such, probably vasocontraction or decreased transcapallary
movements or endothliul dysfunction may be related to cancer?
> But once the cancer cell has reached full bloom, the immune system
> does not recognize the cancer cell as an invader. So, immune cells
> can't have any effect on turning off cancer cells.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Immune system is unable to handle full bloom cancer cells is one
aspect, but still immune response continues is another aspect. Iron or
other nutrients withholding to cancer cells to starve and kill them,
seems to justy continious immune response though can be weak.

Which type of immune response can be possible to cancer--chronic
infectious inflammation type or chronic non-infectious inflammation
type, in view of cancer cells being our cells?

Btw, do we have data of ultimate cancer outcome of medically
intervened & non-intervened cancer patients?

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

How and if the Immune System recognizes cancer cells is different in
every cancer type. In general, tumors express antigens that can be
recognized by the immune system, however weakly, but cancer cells
develop strategies to avoid being detected, such as down-regulating
MHC-expression, non-expression of tumor antigens, production of immuno-
suppressive mediators and so on.
Passive Immunotherapy and the like to boost the immune response (even
to full bloom cancer, which can be recognized by the immune system
BTW) is broadly being researched but still in early stages.

I don't think that there are studies of treated vs. untreated cancer
patients since no ethics committee would allow such a study, I hope. :)

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

On Apr 16, 9:33 pm, SanHolo <help.you.i....@gmail . com > wrote:
> How and if the Immune System recognizes cancer cells is different in
> every cancer type. In general, tumors express antigens that can be
> recognized by the immune system, however weakly, but cancer cells
> develop strategies to avoid being detected, such as down-regulating
> MHC-expression, non-expression of tumor antigens, production of immuno-
> suppressive mediators and so on.
> Passive Immunotherapy and the like to boost the immune response (even
> to full bloom cancer, which can be recognized by the immune system
> BTW) is broadly being researched but still in early stages.
>
> I don't think that there are studies of treated vs. untreated cancer
> patients since no ethics committee would allow such a study, I hope. :)

Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
somewhat anemia of chronic disease?

If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
what, medication & immune response?

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

On Apr 17, 4:46 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
> may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
> somewhat anemia of chronic disease?

I don't understand the question. Withholding iron (or purging it i.e.
through bleeding) affects primarily the red blood cells and not the
immune system. However, since your body gets robbed of strength, the
immune system will also be affected, but not specifically.


> If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
> of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
> what, medication & immune response?

This is done through in vitro testing and in animal models (mostly
mouse models).

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

On Apr 19, 1:40 am, SanHolo <help.you.i....@gmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 4:46 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
> > may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
> > somewhat anemia of chronic disease?
>
> I don't understand the question. Withholding iron (or purging it i.e.
> through bleeding) affects primarily the red blood cells and not the
> immune system. However, since your body gets robbed of strength, the
> immune system will also be affected, but not specifically.
Iron Loading and Disease Surveillance
Eugene D. Weinberg
Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA
* w w w .cdc.gov/Ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm

> > If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
> > of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
> > what, medication & immune response?
>
> This is done through in vitro testing and in animal models (mostly
> mouse models).

Thanks.

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

on 4/10/08 9:55 PM Kumar said the following:
> On Apr 11, 7:43 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
>> On Apr 9, 10:50 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> It can be bit odd to think, that our defence immune response may not
>>> be doing anything hard to cure cancer. Cancer immunotherapies are also
>>> aimed by aiding to increasing immune response. However, as cancer
>>> cells comes from our own cells, immune response can miss or be
>>> mistaken.
>>> As such, will you tell:-
>>> How & when host immune defence is able to recognize that cancer cells
>>> are being odd cells to body & start defence response against them?
>>> Whether cancerous tumor or cancer's dormant/non-metastatic state is
>>> cancer cells mediated or immune defence response mediated?
>>> Some indications are there that withholding of iron and may be of
>>> other nutrients to cancer cells and other pathogens occur during
>>> various states. So this should be immune defence response mediated.
>>> Best wishes.
>> Immune system defense is helpful when the patient makes the mistake of
>> getting chemo, since chemo is destructive to the immune system and
>> frequently kills the patient. Immune defense is not very helpful
>> against cancer cells, although many herbs have both pro-immune and
>> anti-cancer properties.
>>
>> The best to you.
>>
>> Kelley- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> As normal cells become cancer cells, there can be delay in immune
> defence response. I wany to check how and when immune defence is able
> to recognize cancer cells and start working against them.

* w w w .sciencedaily . com /releases/2007/12/071219142056.htm

Re: Immune Defence & Cancer?

On Apr 12, 3:28 am, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
> on 4/10/08 9:55 PM Kumar said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 7:43 am, Kelley Eidem <awthraw...@yahoo . com > wrote:
> >> On Apr 9, 10:50 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> It can be bit odd to think, that our defence immune response may not
> >>> be doing anything hard to cure cancer. Cancer immunotherapies are also=

> >>> aimed by aiding to increasing immune response. However, as cancer
> >>> cells comes from our own cells, immune response can miss or be
> >>> mistaken.
> >>> As such, will you tell:-
> >>> How & when host immune defence is able to recognize that cancer cells
> >>> are being odd cells to body & start defence response against them?
> >>> Whether cancerous tumor or cancer's dormant/non-metastatic state is
> >>> cancer cells mediated or immune defence response mediated?
> >>> Some indications are there that withholding of iron and may be of
> >>> other nutrients to cancer cells and other pathogens occur during
> >>> various states. So this should be immune defence response mediated.
> >>> Best wishes.
> >> Immune system defense is helpful when the patient makes the mistake of
> >> getting chemo, since chemo is destructive to the immune system and
> >> frequently kills the patient. Immune defense is not very helpful
> >> against cancer cells, although many herbs have both pro-immune and
> >> anti-cancer properties.
>
> >> The best to you.
>
> >> Kelley- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > As normal cells become cancer cells, there can be delay in immune
> > defence response. I wany to check how and when immune defence is able
> > to recognize cancer cells and start working against them.
>
> * w w w .sciencedaily . com /releases/2007/12/071219142056.htm- Hide quoted=
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks. But alsl tell me more about host immune defence mediated
resopnses. Iron withholding(as per link I provided) is related to both
cancer & microbials. So I want to check, how immune system recognize
cancer cells & at what state?