What About This Info-Two?

What About This Info-Two?

>From this site:
* w w w .healthyhepper . com /naomi/naomi.htm

I have clipped sections of an article about Naomi Judd's Program
written by AlternativeMedicine . com . I have added my own comments and
observations as well as added hyperlinks.

"To the amazement of her conventional doctors, Naomi's alternative
program sent the hepatitis into remission in two years. Conventional
medicine says that once you get hepatitis C, you have it for life, yet
her symptoms are gone. Recently Naomi decided that remission is not
enough and that she is 'going for the cure,' determined that the virus
will leave her body. Naomi reports that her view of medicine has
changed radically as a result of her experience with hepatitis. 'I see
modern medicine as a last resort. You can't beat it when it comes to
trauma care, antibiotics, surgery, or organ transplantation. Someday
the rest of medicine is going to be viewed as barbaric. Hopefully when
my grandchildren look back and see pictures of a human on life
support, it's going to be the way we now look at the medieval practice
of leeches.'"

"Naomi's message these days is that people need to simplify their lives
-figure out what really matters and let the rest go. Have regular do
not disturb days when you turn off the phone and the fax machine and
have no schedule, Naomi suggests. Insist on personal time, reserve
your limited spare time only for those who are very special, know when
to say no, turn off the TV, spend time outdoors, and educate yourself
about holistic medicine."

Re: What About This Info-Two?


"amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173416474.810124.5800@30g2000cwc.googlegroups . com ...
> >From this site:
> * w w w .healthyhepper . com /naomi/naomi.htm
>
> I have clipped sections of an article about Naomi Judd's Program
> written by AlternativeMedicine . com . I have added my own comments and
> observations as well as added hyperlinks.
>
> "To the amazement of her conventional doctors, Naomi's alternative
> program sent the hepatitis into remission in two years. Conventional
> medicine says that once you get hepatitis C, you have it for life, yet
> her symptoms are gone. Recently Naomi decided that remission is not
> enough and that she is 'going for the cure,' determined that the virus
> will leave her body. Naomi reports that her view of medicine has
> changed radically as a result of her experience with hepatitis. 'I see
> modern medicine as a last resort. You can't beat it when it comes to
> trauma care, antibiotics, surgery, or organ transplantation. Someday
> the rest of medicine is going to be viewed as barbaric. Hopefully when
> my grandchildren look back and see pictures of a human on life
> support, it's going to be the way we now look at the medieval practice
> of leeches.'"
>
> "Naomi's message these days is that people need to simplify their lives
> -figure out what really matters and let the rest go. Have regular do
> not disturb days when you turn off the phone and the fax machine and
> have no schedule, Naomi suggests. Insist on personal time, reserve
> your limited spare time only for those who are very special, know when
> to say no, turn off the TV, spend time outdoors, and educate yourself
> about holistic medicine."
>
Unadulterated horse shit.

I doubt Naomi's "conventional doctors" were amazed, I expect they were
disgusted.
Hepatitis c does not go "into remissison." Hepatitis c can show no symptoms
for many years, until one's liver begins to shut down from damage caused by
the virus. No symptoms does not mean no disease. No symptoms does not mean
no progression of the disease.

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On 8 Mar 2007 21:01:14 -0800, "amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote:

>>From this site:
> * w w w .healthyhepper . com /naomi/naomi.htm
>
> I have clipped sections of an article about Naomi Judd's Program
>written by AlternativeMedicine . com . I have added my own comments and
>observations as well as added hyperlinks.
[...]

Aside from not seeing any comments or added hyperlinks....One can only wonder
what your agenda is...

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On Mar 9, 9:59 am, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo . com > wrote:
> Aside from not seeing any comments or added hyperlinks....One can only wonder
> what your agenda is...

Agenda?
Wanted to know what folks thought about it...
A nurse who's into Alternative tx gave me the links...

~ Alex

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On 10 Mar 2007 16:47:49 -0800, "amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote:

>On Mar 9, 9:59 am, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo . com > wrote:
>> Aside from not seeing any comments or added hyperlinks....One can only wonder
>> what your agenda is...
>
>Agenda?
>Wanted to know what folks thought about it...
>A nurse who's into Alternative tx gave me the links...

Ah - ok, fair enough.

There are plenty of folks out there with HCV who are asymptomatic
walking time-bombs.

But, eventually, there will be one hell of a price to pay...

hth

/greyhackles

Re: What About This Info-Two?


"amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173574069.412162.181510@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups . com ...
> On Mar 9, 9:59 am, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo . com > wrote:
>> Aside from not seeing any comments or added hyperlinks....One can only
>> wonder
>> what your agenda is...
>
> Agenda?
> Wanted to know what folks thought about it...
> A nurse who's into Alternative tx gave me the links...
>
Well then, here's my thoughts...
A nurse into alternative tx is an idiot. There is no alternative tx.

Re: What About This Info-Two?

Waterspider & Greyhackles,

I've appreciated all the various things I've seen you both say in this
group.
Do ya think, rather than just saying there is no alternative to the
standard treatment, trying to explain Why there isn't?

~ Alex

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On 11 Mar 2007 15:29:39 -0700, "amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote:

>Do ya think, rather than just saying there is no alternative to the
>standard treatment, trying to explain Why there isn't?

I'm not Waterspider, but I'll still answer...

Why? Because none of the alternative "treatments" can eliminate the
virus. And as long as the virus is in your body, it is killing your
liver cells. No matter how much milk thistle you take, no matter what
else you try to stave of the damage, the virus is more powerful than
anything you can do. It's as simple as that. Kill the virus, stop the
damage. And only interferon and riba can kill the virus (at least so
far). Normal LFT values are no indication that the liver isn't being
damaged. Low viral counts don't correlate to less damage. So all the
alternative "treatments" do is to give people a false sense of security.
Pretty crappy results, don't you agree?

Thomas
--
To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

Re: What About This Info-Two?


"amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173652179.079612.301010@64g2000cwx.googlegroups . com ...
> Waterspider & Greyhackles,
>
> I've appreciated all the various things I've seen you both say in this
> group.
> Do ya think, rather than just saying there is no alternative to the
> standard treatment, trying to explain Why there isn't?
> ~ Alex
>
That's like asking why there isn't a herbal tea that will cure cancer, or an
elixir that will cure getting run over by a crosstown bus!

Maybe someday we'll be able to take a pill to erradicate hepatits C from our
blood and our livers, but I think we're a long way away from it. HCV is one
tough virus, and it requires tough treatment. Unfortunately, there has been
nothing, absolutely nothing, in the alternative field which succeeded in
curing hep c. Absolutely nothing.

But, it's a tough treatment. So, when we're faced with this treatment, it's
natural to want to make sure that maybe there's not something out there,
something easier, that we've missed. So, we look on the internet and we read
books and magazines, maybe hear an interview with a star on television.
Doing this, it's possible to find a whole range of "cures" like colodial
silver, liver flushes, herbal mixtures, etc. etc. etc. Of course these
claims will be accompanied by glowing testimonials from people like "Greg in
Kansas" who thank God and Brand X for their renewed health and longevity.
And, we all have a friend who had a friend who read so-and-so's book and
followed the instructions to be cured of hep c.

Sorry, but it's all crap and snakeoil, desperate people wanting so badly to
believe in something that they'll let themselves die of liver failure rather
than accept that traditional medical science is the only answer. The only
chance. Everything else wastes precious time, letting hep c continue
destroying your liver for another day, and another month, another year...
until you're in the ER, all yellow and bloated, bleeding internally, sicker
than you can imagine... hearing that you're going on the transplant list,
usually a two-year wait, but you've only got six months to live.

In the first couple of months after my diagnosis, I spent way too much money
on milkthistle, vitamin combos, enzymes, herbal teas and some really bad
books with no science behind them, and way too much time meditating on
making my body heal. But, luckily I'm a geek, a researcher by trade, so I
soon learned that there was no other option than the Big Guns. I had
cirrhosis and my symptoms were preventing me from functioning anywhere near
like a normal human being. I was scared shitless because I knew the
treatment was horrible, and I knew it was the only chance I had at not being
dead in 3-5 years (doctor's prognosis if I kept fucking around with the
alternative crap). The only way I could gather the courage to undertake it
was to remind myself that, if it turned out to be that bad, if I couldn't
handle it, then I would simply not bother taking any more pills, not bother
with the next shot. I really had nothing to lose.

Guess what? The first, the worst, shot didn't kill me. So I did the next
one, and it wasn't as bad. So, I continued, and yes it was a bitch, but it
was quite do-able. I even worked through most of it. And, the treatment
worked. I no longer have hepatitis c. I no longer have that horrible virus
replecating in my liver as much as three billion times a day. No more
symptoms, no more fatigue, no more brain fog, no more fevers and dizzy
spells. No more fear. Oh yeah, and my hair grew back thicker and better than
ever (treatment will definitely thin your hair).

In other words, I know how you feel and I know where you're coming from. But
it's time for a reality check... you won't live forever and I have a feeling
that you're not ready to roll over and die yet.

Btw, Naomi Judd at some point made a serious reality check and underwent
peg-interferon and ribavirin treatment for her hepatitis c. Now she's
helping raise money for the American Liver Foundation to fund more research
on hepatitis c. Here is a link to that page on her website:
* w w w .naomijudd . com /Pages/hepc.html

All the best,

Waterspider

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:03:24 -0700, "Waterspider" <nospam@all . com >, in
message ID <12v99n7pqbnipb0@corp.supernews . com >, in the newsgroup
sci.med.diseases.hepatitis wrote:

>In the first couple of months after my diagnosis, I spent way too much money
>on milkthistle, vitamin combos, enzymes, herbal teas and some really bad
>books with no science behind them, and way too much time meditating on
>making my body heal. But, luckily I'm a geek, a researcher by trade, so I
>soon learned that there was no other option than the Big Guns. I had
>cirrhosis and my symptoms were preventing me from functioning anywhere near
>like a normal human being. I was scared shitless because I knew the
>treatment was horrible, and I knew it was the only chance I had at not being
>dead in 3-5 years (doctor's prognosis if I kept fucking around with the
>alternative crap). The only way I could gather the courage to undertake it
>was to remind myself that, if it turned out to be that bad, if I couldn't
>handle it, then I would simply not bother taking any more pills, not bother
>with the next shot. I really had nothing to lose.

Yeah. I bought a few weird things and tried to read myself better too
WS. I was in the unfortunate position of having seen someone die on
tx - probably one of those rare people whose immune system attacked
their liver. Unfortunate I may have been but not as unfortunate as he
- especially as his liver was pretty healthy for a hepper until his
immune system went into overdrive on it.
I suppose I had better reasons than most for looking for an
alternative.
I got lucky.
My research brought me here.
At stage 2 grade 3, I may well have still been a decade away from
cirrhosis and perhaps 20 years from liver failure. However, I doubt
the last few years would have had any quality to them.
Since my (succesful) tx in '04, I have witnessed another friend die -
more directly due to hep-c this time. We treated at the same time.
Mine worked. His didn't.
So that's two deaths I've witnessed in recent years. The first one I
was there when the ventilator was switched off. The second one died
half an hour after I left the hospital. I would like to have been
there at the moment of his death but there was no way of knowing if he
had another day or two left in him. I don't feel right about not
sticking around but I don't have a crystal ball.
The yellowing, the bloating and the mental confusion as the toxins
start to affect the brain. Both good people who I shared many a laugh
with.
You know what I would like to do to these rip off snake oil selling
bastards don't you? I'd like to cut their fucking livers out and give
them to someone who needs them.
Snake oil salespeople are as close to murderers as you can get. They
can be so convincing with their slimey lies and can cause vulnerable
people to delay essential, possibly life saving treatment.

You know, I spent quite a few years with hep-c ruling a large part of
my life - either mine or other peoples. I'm wondering if the time has
come to move on as the whole thing has been pretty distressing at
times. I feel like I'm stuck in a time warp mourning friends whose
lives have gone and not yet fully able to enjoy my own life.

Feel like I'm at a crossroads (I think you call them 4 way stops over
there) and unsure which road to head down.

Re: What About This Info-Two?

Paul, Thomas, Waterspider, & Elmo!

Thanks for the feedback.
Your reasoning is sound.
I appreciate your honesty.

~ Alex

Re: What About This Info-Two?


"amzolt" <amzolt@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173753109.639905.63510@8g2000cwh.googlegroups . com ...
> Paul, Thomas, Waterspider, & Elmo!
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Your reasoning is sound.
> I appreciate your honesty.
>
> ~ Alex
>
You're welcome!
Twice.

Re: What About This Info-Two?

Paul, Thomas, Waterspider, & Elmo!

Thanks for the feedback.
Your reasoning is sound.
I appreciate your honesty.

~ Alex

Re: What About This Info-Two?


"Paul" <dontspamme@westgreen . fr eeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qtvav2tshmhj56j4kdb46of0n8698qn777@4ax . com ...
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:03:24 -0700, "Waterspider" <nospam@all . com >, in
> message ID <12v99n7pqbnipb0@corp.supernews . com >, in the newsgroup
> sci.med.diseases.hepatitis wrote:
>
>>In the first couple of months after my diagnosis, I spent way too much
>>money
>>on milkthistle, vitamin combos, enzymes, herbal teas and some really bad
>>books with no science behind them, and way too much time meditating on
>>making my body heal. But, luckily I'm a geek, a researcher by trade, so I
>>soon learned that there was no other option than the Big Guns. I had
>>cirrhosis and my symptoms were preventing me from functioning anywhere
>>near
>>like a normal human being. I was scared shitless because I knew the
>>treatment was horrible, and I knew it was the only chance I had at not
>>being
>>dead in 3-5 years (doctor's prognosis if I kept fucking around with the
>>alternative crap). The only way I could gather the courage to undertake it
>>was to remind myself that, if it turned out to be that bad, if I couldn't
>>handle it, then I would simply not bother taking any more pills, not
>>bother
>>with the next shot. I really had nothing to lose.
>
> Yeah. I bought a few weird things and tried to read myself better too
> WS. I was in the unfortunate position of having seen someone die on
> tx - probably one of those rare people whose immune system attacked
> their liver. Unfortunate I may have been but not as unfortunate as he
> - especially as his liver was pretty healthy for a hepper until his
> immune system went into overdrive on it.
> I suppose I had better reasons than most for looking for an
> alternative.
> I got lucky.
> My research brought me here.
> At stage 2 grade 3, I may well have still been a decade away from
> cirrhosis and perhaps 20 years from liver failure. However, I doubt
> the last few years would have had any quality to them.
> Since my (succesful) tx in '04, I have witnessed another friend die -
> more directly due to hep-c this time. We treated at the same time.
> Mine worked. His didn't.
> So that's two deaths I've witnessed in recent years. The first one I
> was there when the ventilator was switched off. The second one died
> half an hour after I left the hospital. I would like to have been
> there at the moment of his death but there was no way of knowing if he
> had another day or two left in him. I don't feel right about not
> sticking around but I don't have a crystal ball.
> The yellowing, the bloating and the mental confusion as the toxins
> start to affect the brain. Both good people who I shared many a laugh
> with.
> You know what I would like to do to these rip off snake oil selling
> bastards don't you? I'd like to cut their fucking livers out and give
> them to someone who needs them.
> Snake oil salespeople are as close to murderers as you can get. They
> can be so convincing with their slimey lies and can cause vulnerable
> people to delay essential, possibly life saving treatment.
>
> You know, I spent quite a few years with hep-c ruling a large part of
> my life - either mine or other peoples. I'm wondering if the time has
> come to move on as the whole thing has been pretty distressing at
> times. I feel like I'm stuck in a time warp mourning friends whose
> lives have gone and not yet fully able to enjoy my own life.
>
> Feel like I'm at a crossroads (I think you call them 4 way stops over
> there) and unsure which road to head down.

Paul, we've shared some similar experiences. I know what it's like to do the
hep c deathwatch at the hospital bedside. I know what it's like to lose
friends to liver failure. Sometimes it makes me feel lucky (because I'm
still here, I'm healthy) and sometimes it breaks my heart. Like you, that
hep c connection is a strong part of my life and I'm unable or unwilling to
walk away from it. I am not a religious person, which I think you already
know, but I seem compelled to spend time doing what I can to help anyone
newly diagnosed, coping with the disease, undergoing treatment, perhaps
trying to carry on after failed treatment. This all goes back to when I was
newly diagnosed, a basket-case and a physical wreck, and a couple of good
folks, strangers, came out of the woodwork to offer support, advice and help
in all kinds of ways. Some were in my community, some were friends of
friends in other towns, some were on these newsgroups. It still blows me
away that they helped me so much, and I think I'll always be here for anyone
who wants to listen to what I have to say. Payback. Goes around, comes
around. I do enjoy life again, being healthy and without the anxiety of
simply having the disease, but I feel good about being able to give
something back. Still, it sucks when someone dies, when someone fails
treatment, when someone is so thick-headed and scared that they won't even
try treatment. But at least I know that I'm doing something, maybe not much,
but at least I'm not walking away from it all. In other words, if we're as
alike as I suspect, you're stuck! Might as well resign yourself to the fact
that you're a person willing to share whatever wisdom gained throughout this
long strange trip. Whaddya got to lose?

Re: What About This Info-Two?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:01:33 -0700, "Waterspider" <nospam@all . com >, in
message ID <12vcfic3qaa0c4a@corp.supernews . com >, in the newsgroup
sci.med.diseases.hepatitis wrote:

>Paul, we've shared some similar experiences. I know what it's like to do the
>hep c deathwatch at the hospital bedside. I know what it's like to lose
>friends to liver failure. Sometimes it makes me feel lucky (because I'm
>still here, I'm healthy) and sometimes it breaks my heart. Like you, that
>hep c connection is a strong part of my life and I'm unable or unwilling to
>walk away from it. I am not a religious person, which I think you already
>know, but I seem compelled to spend time doing what I can to help anyone
>newly diagnosed, coping with the disease, undergoing treatment, perhaps
>trying to carry on after failed treatment. This all goes back to when I was
>newly diagnosed, a basket-case and a physical wreck, and a couple of good
>folks, strangers, came out of the woodwork to offer support, advice and help
>in all kinds of ways. Some were in my community, some were friends of
>friends in other towns, some were on these newsgroups. It still blows me
>away that they helped me so much, and I think I'll always be here for anyone
>who wants to listen to what I have to say. Payback. Goes around, comes
>around. I do enjoy life again, being healthy and without the anxiety of
>simply having the disease, but I feel good about being able to give
>something back. Still, it sucks when someone dies, when someone fails
>treatment, when someone is so thick-headed and scared that they won't even
>try treatment. But at least I know that I'm doing something, maybe not much,
>but at least I'm not walking away from it all. In other words, if we're as
>alike as I suspect, you're stuck! Might as well resign yourself to the fact
>that you're a person willing to share whatever wisdom gained throughout this
>long strange trip. Whaddya got to lose?

I guess I am stuck but the pain is still raw.
I'm going away for a few days break in a minute. Maybe that's what I
really need. Just feeling a little worn out by life at the moment. It
passes.
I do give plenty of help on hep-c away from the internet too. I use
an addiction self help group so meet plenty along the way with hep-c.
I find it amazing that there are still people out there (here in the
UK) who have had LFTs done by a GP, got a "normal" result and it gets
left at that. If I had listened to such nonsense, I would probably
still be "normal" with a deteriorating liver. I tell these people, go
back to your GP, ask to be referred to a liver specialist/gastro to
arrange a biopsy. DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. If they insist on
saying no - get a second opinion (most doctors hate that and will
relent).
Anyway, off now for a three/four day break.
Catch ya soon.