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Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
* bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
Could somebody translate this into English, please?
--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK
* bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
Could somebody translate this into English, please?
--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
> * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
>
> Could somebody translate this into English, please?
Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
was determined.
Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
in suicide.
To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
with booze and died.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
> * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
>
> Could somebody translate this into English, please?
Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
was determined.
Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
in suicide.
To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
with booze and died.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
In article <1065151019914743.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual . net >,
"bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia . com > wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
>
> > * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
> >
> > Could somebody translate this into English, please?
>
> Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
> schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
> an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
> important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
> the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
> matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
> was determined.
>
> Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
> sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
> could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
> the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
> medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
> which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
> Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
> so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
> However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
> in suicide.
>
> To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
> insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
> had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
> condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
> with booze and died.
>
> later
> bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
>
> --
> bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
>
> "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
> It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
> the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
> It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
> --from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
In article <1065151019914743.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual . net >,
"bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia . com > wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
>
> > * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
> >
> > Could somebody translate this into English, please?
>
> Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
> schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
> an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
> important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
> the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
> matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
> was determined.
>
> Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
> sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
> could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
> the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
> medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
> which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
> Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
> so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
> However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
> in suicide.
>
> To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
> insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
> had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
> condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
> with booze and died.
>
> later
> bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
>
> --
> bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
>
> "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
> It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
> the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
> It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
> --from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
In article <fredrick-87920D.03075717032007@optonline.svc.highwinds-media . com > Gary Fredrick <fredrick@intac . com > writes:
>there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
>or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
>never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
>split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
>influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
>keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
Actually, I see lots of news stories about what people do under the influence
of alcohol. Sometimes, though, the fact that alcohol was involved is buried
deep in the story.
Also, most people have personal experience -- either themselves or with
relatives or friends -- of the problems that alcohol can cause. But because
alcohol is both legal and popular, the vast majority of people also know that
most people can use alcohol responsibly.
So although cannabis is much safer than alcohol, has demonstrated medical
utility (it was part of the US pharmacopia until the 1930s), and doesn't seem
to cause cancer (even when smoked) or schizophrenia (although it does seem
to aggravate it in *some* people subject to schizophrenia) or turn people
into bats with blood dripping from their fangs, because it has been demonized
for so long there are enough people who are afraid of it that it remains
illegal.
Not to mention the people who have influence who get power, money or both
from having cannabis illegal...
-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)
""A programmer is a person who passes as an exacting expert on the basis of
being able to turn out, after innumerable punching, an infinite series of
incomprehensive answers calculated with micrometric precisions from vague
assumptions based on debatable figures taken from inconclusive documents
and carried out on instruments of problematical accuracy by persons of
dubious reliability and questionable mentality for the avowed purpose of
annoying and confounding a hopelessly defenseless department that was
unfortunate enough to ask for the information in the first place."
-IEEE Grid newsmagazine
In article <fredrick-87920D.03075717032007@optonline.svc.highwinds-media . com > Gary Fredrick <fredrick@intac . com > writes:
>there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
>or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
>never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
>split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
>influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
>keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
Actually, I see lots of news stories about what people do under the influence
of alcohol. Sometimes, though, the fact that alcohol was involved is buried
deep in the story.
Also, most people have personal experience -- either themselves or with
relatives or friends -- of the problems that alcohol can cause. But because
alcohol is both legal and popular, the vast majority of people also know that
most people can use alcohol responsibly.
So although cannabis is much safer than alcohol, has demonstrated medical
utility (it was part of the US pharmacopia until the 1930s), and doesn't seem
to cause cancer (even when smoked) or schizophrenia (although it does seem
to aggravate it in *some* people subject to schizophrenia) or turn people
into bats with blood dripping from their fangs, because it has been demonized
for so long there are enough people who are afraid of it that it remains
illegal.
Not to mention the people who have influence who get power, money or both
from having cannabis illegal...
-Pete Zakel
(phz@seeheader.nospam)
""A programmer is a person who passes as an exacting expert on the basis of
being able to turn out, after innumerable punching, an infinite series of
incomprehensive answers calculated with micrometric precisions from vague
assumptions based on debatable figures taken from inconclusive documents
and carried out on instruments of problematical accuracy by persons of
dubious reliability and questionable mentality for the avowed purpose of
annoying and confounding a hopelessly defenseless department that was
unfortunate enough to ask for the information in the first place."
-IEEE Grid newsmagazine
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 03:07:57 -0400,Gary Fredrick, wrote
> In article <1065151019914743.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual . net >,
> "bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia . com > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
> >
> > > * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
> > >
> > > Could somebody translate this into English, please?
> >
> > Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
> > schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
> > an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
> > important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
> > the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
> > matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
> > was determined.
> >
> > Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
> > sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
> > could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
> > the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
> > medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
> > which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
> > Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
> > so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
> > However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
> > in suicide.
> >
> > To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
> > insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
> > had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
> > condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
> > with booze and died.
> >
snip of old signature
>
> there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
> or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
> never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
> split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
> influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
> keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
We get reports on TV News and in the papers of drinking drivers killing
their passengers and themselves all the time as well as of them murdering
spouses and children. Sometimes in the murder cases they try to blame
it on drugs when what we have is clearly a multiple drug abuser using
alcohol
and anything else s/he can lay hands on.
Of course this here is the San Francisco Bay Area where Mothers Against
Drunk Drivers got started a few years(20 or so) back when a kid was killed
by a drunk. So maybe we pay more attention to that sort of thing locally.
Lately a terrible case where a drunk destroyed his care and killed
one of the passengers and the other two and himself are hospitalised. He
was
so afraid of the police that he started racing them when they saw his car
driven erratically then tried to run away from them after the accident.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 03:07:57 -0400,Gary Fredrick, wrote
> In article <1065151019914743.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual . net >,
> "bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia . com > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:50:54 +0000,Phil Stovell, wrote
> >
> > > * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
> > >
> > > Could somebody translate this into English, please?
> >
> > Looks like an attempt to demonise cannabis use especially by
> > schizophrenics. Not many patients involved, lots of controls and
> > an apparent loss of grey matter (top layer of the brain where very
> > important neuronal connections are made). I was unable to get
> > the full article text so I wonder how the determinations of grey
> > matter loss was done, as well as how the non-loss of the controls
> > was determined.
> >
> > Schizophrenics could have very delicate grey matter which is
> > sensitive to some component of cannibis smoke or the condition
> > could be inherent and use of cannabis could be a side effect of
> > the loss of grey matter, i.e. self-medication. I have seen self
> > medication by the way with alcoholic beverages in hebephrenia
> > which is a variety of schizophrenia characterised by silliness.
> > Warning! My diagnostic nomenclature is about 50 years out of date
> > so the term "hebephrenica may be out of date or mis-spelled.
> > However the self-medication which I saw ended as it often does
> > in suicide.
> >
> > To include the politics, then Govenor Reagan of California had
> > insisted on reducing the Medic-Cal(MedicAid) program expenses which
> > had been done by trimming the drugs my friend found useful for his
> > condition. So he tried to make up for the loss of the tranquilizer
> > with booze and died.
> >
snip of old signature
>
> there's never hot breaking news about what has recenly been discovered
> or which poor souls have died because someone was abusing alchohol. I've
> never seen anything about pot causing anyone to shoot his family or
> split a newlyweds limo in half as they drove 90 miles per hour under the
> influence marijuana. But alchohol lobbiests must make damn good money
> keeping the lid on the chaos and misery that alchohol causes.
We get reports on TV News and in the papers of drinking drivers killing
their passengers and themselves all the time as well as of them murdering
spouses and children. Sometimes in the murder cases they try to blame
it on drugs when what we have is clearly a multiple drug abuser using
alcohol
and anything else s/he can lay hands on.
Of course this here is the San Francisco Bay Area where Mothers Against
Drunk Drivers got started a few years(20 or so) back when a kid was killed
by a drunk. So maybe we pay more attention to that sort of thing locally.
Lately a terrible case where a drunk destroyed his care and killed
one of the passengers and the other two and himself are hospitalised. He
was
so afraid of the police that he started racing them when they saw his car
driven erratically then tried to run away from them after the accident.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
Phil Stovell wrote:
> * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
>
> Could somebody translate this into English, please?
Not sure what you mean by translate. The study reported that people
with schizophrenia who were also cannabis users had a smaller volume of
anterior cingulate grey matter than schizophrenics who did not use
cannabis or healthy controls. Grey matter contains the cell bodies of
neurons, and that part of the brain is associated with some cognitive
functions and other functions.
In addition to what Bobbie pointed out, the main thing to be noted is
that they don't say in the abstract whether this was just a correlation
or that they did some kind of multivariate analysis to adjust for
confounding factors. Since they don't say, it sounds as if they did
not. In that case, the study says nothing about causal links; it just
shows a correlation, which could be due to any number of confounding
factors. Notice they do not claim any causal connection in the conclusion.
Phil Stovell wrote:
> * bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/230
>
> Could somebody translate this into English, please?
Not sure what you mean by translate. The study reported that people
with schizophrenia who were also cannabis users had a smaller volume of
anterior cingulate grey matter than schizophrenics who did not use
cannabis or healthy controls. Grey matter contains the cell bodies of
neurons, and that part of the brain is associated with some cognitive
functions and other functions.
In addition to what Bobbie pointed out, the main thing to be noted is
that they don't say in the abstract whether this was just a correlation
or that they did some kind of multivariate analysis to adjust for
confounding factors. Since they don't say, it sounds as if they did
not. In that case, the study says nothing about causal links; it just
shows a correlation, which could be due to any number of confounding
factors. Notice they do not claim any causal connection in the conclusion.
Re: Anterior cingulate grey-matter deficits and cannabis use in first-episode schizophrenia
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:06:01 -0500, "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo . com >
wrote:
> Notice they do not claim any causal connection in the conclusion.
They do not need to in order for their conclusion to become a tenet of
prohibitionist belief and propaganda.
Clough
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:06:01 -0500, "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo . com >
wrote:
> Notice they do not claim any causal connection in the conclusion.
They do not need to in order for their conclusion to become a tenet of
prohibitionist belief and propaganda.
Clough
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