Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

To be discussed at 08:10 GMT on BBC Radio 4 (50mins time):
* w w w .bbc.co.uk/radio4/index.shtml?logo


"And if drug taking does not harm anyone, then criminal sanctions should
not be applied, the report will say."

Patricia Tabram?

< * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6429239.stm>

Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

Drug laws in Britain are not working and a radical fresh approach is
needed, a major report is due to say.

The Royal Society of Arts has spent two years examining the impact of
current policy as well as alternatives.

It will say policy is driven by moral panic, not a desire to reduce harm,
and will suggest policy-making should be up to drug teams and local
authorities.

The Home Office, currently in charge of policy, says it does not accept
all the report's recommendations.

The report entitled Illegal Drugs, Communities and Public Policy, due to
be published later, comes ahead of a major government review of the
country's drugs strategy next year.

'Fewer criminal sanctions'

The report will be highly critical of current drugs policy, suggesting the
wrong people are in jail, the wrong people are in treatment and money is
wasted trying to hit "inappropriate" targets.

Current drug campaigns do not work, nor does drug testing at the point of
arrest and both should be abandoned, it will add.

It will argue policy should be about reducing harm rather than the level
of crime.

And if drug taking does not harm anyone, then criminal sanctions should
not be applied, the report will say.

Another of its recommendations is to pass the power to shape policy from
the Home Office to local authorities and drug teams.

The Home Office has estimated that the social cost of drug abuse alone to
the country is between £10bn and £17bn a year.

--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'


"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.08.07.22.47.669101@stovell.org.uk...
> To be discussed at 08:10 GMT on BBC Radio 4 (50mins time):
> * w w w .bbc.co.uk/radio4/index.shtml?logo
>
>
> "And if drug taking does not harm anyone, then criminal sanctions should
> not be applied, the report will say."
>
> Patricia Tabram?
>
> < * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6429239.stm>
>
> Drug laws 'need major overhaul'
>

All Grist to the mill, but Anthony King trotted out the "skunk" bollocks on
"Today" ....

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'


"gentlegreen" <gentlegreengiantcalciumcarbonate@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:Y3RHh.493$DX5.195@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.03.08.07.22.47.669101@stovell.org.uk...
> > To be discussed at 08:10 GMT on BBC Radio 4 (50mins time):
> > * w w w .bbc.co.uk/radio4/index.shtml?logo
> >
> >
> > "And if drug taking does not harm anyone, then criminal sanctions should
> > not be applied, the report will say."
> >
> > Patricia Tabram?
> >
> > < * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6429239.stm>
> >
> > Drug laws 'need major overhaul'
> >
>
> All Grist to the mill, but Anthony King trotted out the "skunk" bollocks
on
> "Today" ....
>
... followed by Blunkett ....

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'


"gentlegreen" <gentlegreengiantcalciumcarbonate@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:obRHh.496$DX5.406@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "gentlegreen" <gentlegreengiantcalciumcarbonate@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:Y3RHh.493$DX5.195@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2007.03.08.07.22.47.669101@stovell.org.uk...
>> > To be discussed at 08:10 GMT on BBC Radio 4 (50mins time):
>> > * w w w .bbc.co.uk/radio4/index.shtml?logo
>> >
>> >
>> > "And if drug taking does not harm anyone, then criminal sanctions
>> > should
>> > not be applied, the report will say."
>> >
>> > Patricia Tabram?
>> >
>> > < * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6429239.stm>
>> >
>> > Drug laws 'need major overhaul'
>> >
>>
>> All Grist to the mill, but Anthony King trotted out the "skunk" bollocks
> on
>> "Today" ....
>>
> ... followed by Blunkett ....

Blunkett's approach to these things is well-worn. It goes "I know what the
report says, but my constituents won't have any truck with that. They want
to be reassured that the government is taking a tough line against drugs",
or words to that effect.

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

Play spot the non-legaliser:

< * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>

Not very many.

--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'


"Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>
> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>
>
> Not very many.

I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
non-legalisers:
"If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more Asian
countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with regard to the
posession and use of drugs.
The Penalty is well known!"

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

The Todal wrote:
> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>>
>> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl 070308163932>
>>
>> Not very many.
>
> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
> non-legalisers:
> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more Asian
> countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with regard to the
> posession and use of drugs.
> The Penalty is well known!"

True.
All that shows is that half measures will never work.
Legalise or death even for possession.

--
Dirk

* w w w .onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
* w w w .resonancefm . com

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> The Todal wrote:
>> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
>>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>>>
>>> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>
>>>
>>> Not very many.
>>
>> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
>> non-legalisers:
>> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more
>> Asian countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with
>> regard to the posession and use of drugs.
>> The Penalty is well known!"
>
> True.
> All that shows is that half measures will never work. Legalise or death
> even for possession.

I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did, they
wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the death
penalty.

It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's a
deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
police is horrific as well.

--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

Phil Stovell wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>> The Todal wrote:
>>> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
>>>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>>>>
>>>> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>
>>>>
>>>> Not very many.
>>> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
>>> non-legalisers:
>>> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more
>>> Asian countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with
>>> regard to the posession and use of drugs.
>>> The Penalty is well known!"
>> True.
>> All that shows is that half measures will never work. Legalise or death
>> even for possession.
>
> I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did, they
> wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the death
> penalty.
>
> It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's a
> deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
> compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
> police is horrific as well.

I think that Singapore is the model we should be looking at since it's
effectively a First World nation.

--
Dirk

* w w w .onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
* w w w .resonancefm . com

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:56:28 +0000,Dirk Bruere at NeoPax, wrote

> Phil Stovell wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> >
> >> The Todal wrote:
> >>> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> >>> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
> >>>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
> >>>>
> >>>>
< * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>
> >>>>
> >>>> Not very many.
> >>> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
> >>> non-legalisers:
> >>> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more
> >>> Asian countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with
> >>> regard to the posession and use of drugs.
> >>> The Penalty is well known!"
> >> True.
> >> All that shows is that half measures will never work. Legalise or death
> >> even for possession.
> >
> > I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did, they
> > wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the death
> > penalty.
> >
> > It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's a
> > deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
> > compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
> > police is horrific as well.
>
> I think that Singapore is the model we should be looking at since it's
> effectively a First World nation.

Only in a technological sense. It is a dictarship which uses
Confucian justification for interference with private lives on a
non-trivial level aside from drugs.

For a book about it you might read "CONFUCIUS LIVES NEXT DOOR"
subtitled "What Living In The East Teaches Us About Living In The
West" by T.R. Reid a former resident in Japan and visitor to all
parts of East Asia former Head of the Washington Post's Tokyo Bureau,
and who discusses Koshi-sama's influence on the Eastern civilisations.

Singapore is still using the kind of authoritarian punishments
that the Japanese Imperialist in the 1930s and 1940s used to bring
the natives into line with their "liberation" from the Western
colonialist policies

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On 8 Mar, 20:18, "bobbie sellers" <blis...@SPAMcalifornia . com > wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:56:28 +0000,Dirk Bruere at NeoPax, wrote

> Singapore is still using the kind of authoritarian punishments
> that the Japanese Imperialist in the 1930s and 1940s used to bring
> the natives into line with their "liberation" from the Western
> colonialist policies

Except that Singapore was founded in 1819 by the British when its
population was virtually zero.

By 1867 immigrant workers from the then British Empire had raised its
population to 100 000 when it became an official Crown Colony. It
remained a Crown Colony until 1963 except for a short period between
1942 and 1945 when it was under Japanese military occupation.

In 1963 it became part of the Federation of Malaysia as part of the de-
colonisation package. It seceded from the Federation some two years
later.

Thus, the Japanese were never an influence in Singapore. They were not
there long enough. They were an alien people who spoke an alien
language and they were focussed upon winning the war in the far east.

They are probably a bigger influence now by virtue of commercial
relationships built up over the years since independence.

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

bobbie sellers wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:56:28 +0000,Dirk Bruere at NeoPax, wrote
>
>> Phil Stovell wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Todal wrote:
>>>>> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
>>>>>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl 070308163932>
>>>>>> Not very many.
>>>>> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
>>>>> non-legalisers:
>>>>> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more
>>>>> Asian countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with
>>>>> regard to the posession and use of drugs.
>>>>> The Penalty is well known!"
>>>> True.
>>>> All that shows is that half measures will never work. Legalise or death
>>>> even for possession.
>>> I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did, they
>>> wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the death
>>> penalty.
>>>
>>> It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's a
>>> deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
>>> compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
>>> police is horrific as well.
>> I think that Singapore is the model we should be looking at since it's
>> effectively a First World nation.
>
> Only in a technological sense. It is a dictarship which uses
> Confucian justification for interference with private lives on a
> non-trivial level aside from drugs.
>
> For a book about it you might read "CONFUCIUS LIVES NEXT DOOR"
> subtitled "What Living In The East Teaches Us About Living In The
> West" by T.R. Reid a former resident in Japan and visitor to all
> parts of East Asia former Head of the Washington Post's Tokyo Bureau,
> and who discusses Koshi-sama's influence on the Eastern civilisations.
>
> Singapore is still using the kind of authoritarian punishments
> that the Japanese Imperialist in the 1930s and 1940s used to bring
> the natives into line with their "liberation" from the Western
> colonialist policies

Seems like the Singaporeans don't believe the received wisdom that harsh
punishments have no effect on crime levels.

--
Dirk

* w w w .onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
* w w w .resonancefm . com

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On 8 Mar, 18:49, Phil Stovell <p...@stovell.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did, they
> wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the death
> penalty.
>
> It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's a
> deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
> compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
> police is horrific as well.

Whether they work or not if you go there I think you will find no
ouvert signs of widespread drug use either. For instance you won't see
a disgarded needle there.

As regards getting caught, more than half of Singapore's police force
on duty at any one time are in plain clothes. There could be one sat
at the next table in a bar or restaurant.

Another thing is that you can walk from the theatre several blocks
back to your hotel late at night without the slightest anxiety. Market
traders leave their wares on their stalls overnight lashed down under
plastic sheets simply to keep the weather out.

I was once asked here if I would accept the Singapore "system" of law
enforcement in return for the good order that prevails there.

Yes! Without hesitation.

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:40:20 -0800, Mel Rowing wrote:

> On 8 Mar, 18:49, Phil Stovell <p...@stovell.org.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:45:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>> I think you'll find the full measures don't work either. If they did,
>> they wouldn't have a drug problem and they wouldn't have to use the
>> death penalty.
>>
>> It's the chance of getting caught, not the severity of sentence, that's
>> a deterrent. I expect the price of drugs in those countries is high, to
>> compensate for the increased risk. The extra-judicial murder rate by the
>> police is horrific as well.
>
> Whether they work or not if you go there I think you will find no ouvert
> signs of widespread drug use either. For instance you won't see a
> disgarded needle there.
>
> As regards getting caught, more than half of Singapore's police force on
> duty at any one time are in plain clothes. There could be one sat at the
> next table in a bar or restaurant.
>
> Another thing is that you can walk from the theatre several blocks back to
> your hotel late at night without the slightest anxiety. Market traders
> leave their wares on their stalls overnight lashed down under plastic
> sheets simply to keep the weather out.
>
> I was once asked here if I would accept the Singapore "system" of law
> enforcement in return for the good order that prevails there.
>
> Yes! Without hesitation.

Borg.

No thanks.

--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK

Re: Drug laws 'need major overhaul'

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:28:56 +0000, The Todal wrote:


> "Phil Stovell" <phil@stovell.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.03.08.16.48.40.680513@stovell.org.uk...
>> Play spot the non-legaliser:
>>
>> < * newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5754&&&edition=1&ttl=20070308163932>
>>
>> Not very many.
>
> I suppose this one is fairly typical of the small minority of
> non-legalisers:
> "If you visit Malasia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and many more
> Asian countries, you will find that they have a zero tollerance with
> regard to the posession and use of drugs.
> The Penalty is well known!"

The most recommended message is:

" Added: Thursday, 8 March, 2007, 12:15 GMT 12:15 UK
Absolutely

The current drugs regime supports organized crime.

What we should be doing is legalising everything and placing it all under
governmental control

legalisation==quality control==a decreas in petty crime==TAX REVENUE==MORE
MONEY FOR SCHOOLS, THE NHS, and PROPER POLICING

Frankly, it's time to take an adult stance regarding this subject. The
Nanny State has gone for enough

-=A=-

Andrew Haigh, London, United Kingdom

Recommended by 150 people "


Where's David Raynes' (Claude's) valuable contribution? I heard him on a
R5 Live news bulletin this afternoon.

--
Phil Stovell, Hampshire, UK