Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Clough wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:58:41 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote:
>
>
>> Sorry, but some might think self-rightious do-gooders tampering with
>> peoples health might make sense but an equal number would argue that it
>> is more harmful than beneficial.
>
> I don't think an equal number of people in society are a daft as you.
>
> At least I hope not.
>
> Clough

If Daft means people who believe being part of decent society is to
follow the law, rather than trying to pick and choose elements that suit
themselves then I hope there are plenty more around.

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:25:36 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote:

>Clough wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:58:41 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sorry, but some might think self-rightious do-gooders tampering with
>>> peoples health might make sense but an equal number would argue that it
>>> is more harmful than beneficial.
>>
>> I don't think an equal number of people in society are a daft as you.
>>
>> At least I hope not.

>If Daft means people who believe being part of decent society is to
>follow the law, rather than trying to pick and choose elements that suit
>themselves then I hope there are plenty more around.

There is no way a society based on your values could be decent. You
are a very narrow minded, bigoted and ignorant person.

Somehow I get the impression you are a law enforcement officer.

Clough

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Clough wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:25:36 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote:
>
>> Clough wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:58:41 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry, but some might think self-rightious do-gooders tampering with
>>>> peoples health might make sense but an equal number would argue that it
>>>> is more harmful than beneficial.
>>> I don't think an equal number of people in society are a daft as you.
>>>
>>> At least I hope not.
>
>> If Daft means people who believe being part of decent society is to
>> follow the law, rather than trying to pick and choose elements that suit
>> themselves then I hope there are plenty more around.
>
> There is no way a society based on your values could be decent. You
> are a very narrow minded, bigoted and ignorant person.
>

You have very strange views on what these mean or you just don't bother
reading threads properly!

I am for legalisation and control of cannabis, the use of it for
medication AND against its despensing by untrained quacks.

YOU on the other hand are just insistant that it should be handed out
like candy to a baby - YOU have the narrow view.

Bigoted? Because I don't approve of do-gooding quacks, and would prefer
the job done by doctors - strange definition of bigoted.

Ignorant - I have a close family member who has diagnosed Bipolar CAUSED
by too much cannabis in her youth! I have spent many an hour in the
local mental health unit where she has been sectioned 3 times in four
years due to relapses caused by starting to smoke it again.
I've spent many hours talking to the doctors and staff of the unit who
have no doubt that cannabis is the cause of Bipolar and other mental
health problems, and met many of the other inmates who have the same
problems.

I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its
safe, Cloughie says it is!).

Ignorant - you have no idea what you are talking about.


> Somehow I get the impression you are a law enforcement officer.
>

I get the impression you are a teenager.



> Clough
>

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:33:59 +0000, Sharky wrote:

> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its safe,
> Cloughie says it is!).

They only supplied it to people who provided them with proof of their
condition (doctors note, etc).

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

"They said I should not take him to the police, but rather
let him pay a dowry for my goat because he used it as his wife"

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Phil Stovell wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:33:59 +0000, Sharky wrote:
>
>> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
>> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its safe,
>> Cloughie says it is!).
>
> They only supplied it to people who provided them with proof of their
> condition (doctors note, etc).
>
These ones might have, but google throws up plenty of other similar
suppliers.
And how hard is it to forge some doctors letter anyway.

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:44:04 +0000, Sharky wrote:

> Phil Stovell wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:33:59 +0000, Sharky wrote:
>>
>>> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
>>> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its
>>> safe, Cloughie says it is!).
>>
>> They only supplied it to people who provided them with proof of their
>> condition (doctors note, etc).
>>
> These ones might have, but google throws up plenty of other similar
> suppliers.
> And how hard is it to forge some doctors letter anyway.

Are you suggesting that these ill people should have bought it in their
local pub bog, like I used to?

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

"They said I should not take him to the police, but rather
let him pay a dowry for my goat because he used it as his wife"

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal


Sharky wrote:
> [..]
> Ignorant - I have a close family member who has diagnosed Bipolar CAUSED
> by too much cannabis in her youth! I have spent many an hour in the
> local mental health unit where she has been sectioned 3 times in four
> years due to relapses caused by starting to smoke it again.
> I've spent many hours talking to the doctors and staff of the unit who
> have no doubt that cannabis is the cause of Bipolar and other mental
> health problems, and met many of the other inmates who have the same
> problems.
>
> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its
> safe, Cloughie says it is!).
> [..]
>

This sounds like bullshit.. helping her stay off the weed?! Is she
unable to make decisions
regarding her own life?
How about trying to help her stay off the booze if she had been an
alcoholic? Or helping
her to stay off junkfood when she had been overweight?! Would you
qualify a mcDonalds employee that sells an overweight person a
hamburger to be an arsehole because their friends
are trying to keep them off the junkfood? Or a liquor store for that
matter, selling booze to an alcohol addict just because their friends
try to keep him/her sober?

Also, where is the evidence (apart from your anecdotal account) that
weed causes bi-polar disorders?
I'm not necessarily saying weed is safe for people suffering from a
bi-polar condition or other mental health problems, but it might well
be that smoking weed in small quantities has a beneficial effect while
overdoing it potentially has detrimental effects like it seems to be
the case for schizophrenia.

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

name wrote:
> Sharky wrote:
>> [..]
>> Ignorant - I have a close family member who has diagnosed Bipolar CAUSED
>> by too much cannabis in her youth! I have spent many an hour in the
>> local mental health unit where she has been sectioned 3 times in four
>> years due to relapses caused by starting to smoke it again.
>> I've spent many hours talking to the doctors and staff of the unit who
>> have no doubt that cannabis is the cause of Bipolar and other mental
>> health problems, and met many of the other inmates who have the same
>> problems.
>>
>> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
>> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its
>> safe, Cloughie says it is!).
>> [..]
>>
>
> This sounds like bullshit.. helping her stay off the weed?! Is she
> unable to make decisions
> regarding her own life?

Err, being sectioned means that you have lost control of the decisions
in your life, you have been locked up indefinitely - until you are
'stabilised' and they let you out!
Doesn't that count?
Having been in hospital for 3 x 3 month (compulsory) stays in four
years, she is unemployable, little social life outside the family and
yes turns to weed to releive boredom if not kept busy by the family.
Sorry if you don't beleive the 'bullshit' , but your family will have
the fun of dealing with if you are unlucky to follow suit!
>
> Also, where is the evidence (apart from your anecdotal account) that
> weed causes bi-polar disorders?
> I'm not necessarily saying weed is safe for people suffering from a
> bi-polar condition or other mental health problems, but it might well
> be that smoking weed in small quantities has a beneficial effect while
> overdoing it potentially has detrimental effects like it seems to be
> the case for schizophrenia.
>
Schizophrenia is just a few degrees round the dial from Bipolar, they
are frequently confused - in fact the treatment for the two is similar
until a diagnosis is made and often the diagnosis is wrong.

Anecdotal evidence does indeed say small amounts MAY be helpful, but
consider the Bipolar mindset - when Manic they can do no wrong and want
to smoke it all day, when in the low phase they couldn't give a fuck and
will smoke it all day.

http :// www .rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx

"Depression

A study following 1600 Australian school-children, aged 14 to 15 for
seven years, found that while children who use cannabis regularly have a
significantly higher risk of depression, the opposite was not the case -
children who already suffered from depression were not more likely than
anyone else to use cannabis. However, adolescents who used cannabis
daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in
later life."

and

"Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a
short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis
use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped
using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found
only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

* Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed
within the next year
* Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later."



I used to smoke cannabis, but wouldn't touch it again after what I've
seen her go through.
You want to dance with the devil, carry on, and good luck!

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal


Sharky wrote:
> name wrote:
> > Sharky wrote:
> >> [..]
> >> Ignorant - I have a close family member who has diagnosed Bipolar CAUSED
> >> by too much cannabis in her youth! I have spent many an hour in the
> >> local mental health unit where she has been sectioned 3 times in four
> >> years due to relapses caused by starting to smoke it again.
> >> I've spent many hours talking to the doctors and staff of the unit who
> >> have no doubt that cannabis is the cause of Bipolar and other mental
> >> health problems, and met many of the other inmates who have the same
> >> problems.
> >>
> >> I spend half my time helping her stay off the weed - do you think I (or
> >> her carers) want some arseholes selling her cannabis chocolate (its
> >> safe, Cloughie says it is!).
> >> [..]
> >>
> >
> > This sounds like bullshit.. helping her stay off the weed?! Is she
> > unable to make decisions
> > regarding her own life?
>
> Err, being sectioned means that you have lost control of the decisions
> in your life, you have been locked up indefinitely - until you are
> 'stabilised' and they let you out!
> Doesn't that count?

I just don't see why cannabis has (or more specifically, people selling
cannabis have) to take the blame.
She might have gone through the same ordeal where alcohol abuse would
cause (or seem to cause) her
being sectioned or suffering from (or aggravating her) bi-polar
disorder. If it had been alcohol, you wouldn't
be able to change much about the situation that alcohol is freely
available to adults and consequently her
having access to alcohol. Blaming people who sell drugs (regardless of
whether it's alcohol or cannabis)
to 'vulnerable' people who are probably better off not taking those
drugs seems somewhat on par with people selling
peanuts to people with a nut-allergy. It might be a relatively rare
individual negative response that is no basis
for denying other responsible adults access to such substances or
blaming the people who provide these substances.

> Having been in hospital for 3 x 3 month (compulsory) stays in four
> years, she is unemployable, little social life outside the family and
> yes turns to weed to releive boredom if not kept busy by the family.
> Sorry if you don't beleive the 'bullshit' , but your family will have
> the fun of dealing with if you are unlucky to follow suit!

Although I sympathize with your situation, I don't think it's fair to
assert that cannabis is
the cause of the problem, although I do believe it's quite obvious
cannabis (like alcohol and other drugs) is
potentially detrimental for people who suffer from mental health
problems.
But you don't know whether or not the same situation could just as
easily have been triggered by other things,
like traumatic experiences and was sort of destined to surface one way
or the other anyhow.

> >
> > Also, where is the evidence (apart from your anecdotal account) that
> > weed causes bi-polar disorders?
> > I'm not necessarily saying weed is safe for people suffering from a
> > bi-polar condition or other mental health problems, but it might well
> > be that smoking weed in small quantities has a beneficial effect while
> > overdoing it potentially has detrimental effects like it seems to be
> > the case for schizophrenia.
> >
> Schizophrenia is just a few degrees round the dial from Bipolar, they
> are frequently confused - in fact the treatment for the two is similar
> until a diagnosis is made and often the diagnosis is wrong.

I was not suggesting that a bi-polar disorder is a form of
schizophrenia, just trying to
draw an analogy between cannabis as a risk factor in the development
and progression
of those two mental disorders.

>
> Anecdotal evidence does indeed say small amounts MAY be helpful, but
> consider the Bipolar mindset - when Manic they can do no wrong and want
> to smoke it all day, when in the low phase they couldn't give a fuck and
> will smoke it all day.

But by the same token they might drink excessively and I think that
wouldn't just pose a hazard to
their mental health, but it would completely wreck their liver and
brain as well.

>
> http :// www .rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx
>
> "Depression
>
> A study following 1600 Australian school-children, aged 14 to 15 for
> seven years, found that while children who use cannabis regularly have a
> significantly higher risk of depression, the opposite was not the case -
> children who already suffered from depression were not more likely than
> anyone else to use cannabis. However, adolescents who used cannabis
> daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in
> later life."
>
> and
>
> "Is there such a thing as 'cannabis psychosis'?
>
> Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a
> short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis
> use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped
> using it. It's quite unusual though - in the whole of Denmark they found
> only around 100 new cases per year.
>
> However, they also found that:
>
> * Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed
> within the next year
> * Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later."
>
>
>
> I used to smoke cannabis, but wouldn't touch it again after what I've
> seen her go through.
> You want to dance with the devil, carry on, and good luck!

You have to realize that THC (one of the active ingredients in
cannabis) is a psychedelic substance
to some degree, which means it can (especially in high doses) induce
delusions or even hallucinations.
So it's a kind of subtle issue, but in my opinion the essential
question is whether or not (excessive) use
by people who are otherwise healthy and properly informed about
cannabis can result in schizophrenia
as a mental disorder.
Despite various claims by many qualified experts on psychiatric
conditions, it seems there is no
solid evidence yet to back up this assumption that cannabis causes
schizophrenia, although it has been
established cannabis poses a risk factor in it's development,
especially in case of people who are genetically
predisposed to develop this condition:

http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4104702.stm

"And just finally I would say that if there was a very strong
association between smoking cannabis as a youngster and developing
schizophrenia in later life, and I mean schizophrenia rather than
psychotic symptoms or psychosis, then you would expect that if you were

to monitor very carefully the rate of cannabis smoking in a particular
country where you could show that it was going up very markedly, then
you would expect to see the prevalence of schizophrenia going up
markedly too.

That hasn't been seen where it's been carefully looked for, for
example, in Australia. So I think one has to say that this is an
association which requires very careful future examination. But at the
moment a causal link between cannabis smoking and schizophrenia has not

been established."

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

In uk.legal on Mon, 18 Dec 2006, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote :
>
>I am for legalisation and control of cannabis, the use of it for
>medication AND against its despensing by untrained quacks.
>
>YOU on the other hand are just insistant that it should be handed out
>like candy to a baby

Like alcohol & tobacco, you mean?

There's no question that, if alcohol & tobacco were new products today,
they would *definitely* be prohibited substances.

It is the hypocrisy that gets me - a product isn't made safer by the
fact its use is 'traditional'. Either all intoxicants/narcotics should
be legal, or none of them.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:19:15 +0000, Paul Hyett wrote:

> There's no question that, if alcohol & tobacco were new products today,
> they would *definitely* be prohibited substances.

The ACMD have indicated that they would be class A and class A or B
respectively, compared with cannabis at class C.

--
Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK

"They said I should not take him to the police, but rather
let him pay a dowry for my goat because he used it as his wife"

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Paul Hyett wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> It is the hypocrisy that gets me - a product isn't made safer by the
> fact its use is 'traditional'. Either all intoxicants/narcotics should
> be legal, or none of them.

And no product is made safer by being made illegal - the reverse in fact.

Slatts

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:19:15 GMT,Paul Hyett, wrote

> In uk.legal on Mon, 18 Dec 2006, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com > wrote :
> >
> >I am for legalisation and control of cannabis, the use of it for
> >medication AND against its despensing by untrained quacks.
> >
> >YOU on the other hand are just insistant that it should be handed out
> >like candy to a baby
>
> Like alcohol & tobacco, you mean?
>
> There's no question that, if alcohol & tobacco were new products today,
> they would *definitely* be prohibited substances.
>
> It is the hypocrisy that gets me - a product isn't made safer by the
> fact its use is 'traditional'. Either all intoxicants/narcotics should
> be legal, or none of them.

The irony is that cannabis and opium had been in use for 1000s of
years. The ancient Egyptians modeled vases and pitches after the
seed pod of the opium plant. Cannabis for fibre and for medicine was
a staple of ancient medicine in China,

The white male Anglo-Saxon/Norman rulers of the USA/UK ignorant of
these matters decided to illegalise cannabis for the whole world in
the 1950s. In the Chinese Opium Wars the Ruler of China had attempted
not to suppress the use of a medicine but to prevent the outflow to
the Western nation of valuable gold and silver. He was brutal about
it too. If he had grown his own opium and sold it to his people he
would have solved his problems.

The Japanese during the Meji period foolishly in my estimation
adopted the Western attitudes toward cannabis. I say foolishly because
cannabis hemp was anciently known there and the Emperor as the head
Shinto Priest of the Nation performs certain ceremonies using hemp
leaves. Meantime the traditional overuse of rice wine was made even
more widespread by the need for an anodyne to the pressure of
modernisation of industry under the same slogan used by the Tokugawa
shoguns of "Poor People, Rich Nation". This idea seems to be popular
among the leaders of the USA today who are of course all rich
themselves.

later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)

--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
--from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal


"bobbie sellers" <blissNO@SPAMcalifornia,com > wrote in message
news:1057949828004669.NC-1.56.blissNO@News.Individual,net ...
>
> The ancient Egyptians modeled vases and pitches after the
> seed pod of the opium plant.

>

flattery will get you everywhere!

mk5000


"So when the mummers wrap your door
bid them in and clear the floor
they'll act the like of which never seen before
for mumming is our folk drama and pagan folklore. "--muumers play

Re: Choc bar drugs pair will appeal

Sharky wrote:
> Clough wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:58:41 +0000, Sharky <bill@microsoft,com >
>> wrote:
>>> Sorry, but some might think self-rightious do-gooders tampering with
>>> peoples health might make sense but an equal number would argue
>>> that it is more harmful than beneficial.
>>
>> I don't think an equal number of people in society are a daft as you.
>>
>> At least I hope not.
>>
>> Clough
>
> If Daft means people who believe being part of decent society is to
> follow the law, rather than trying to pick and choose elements that
> suit themselves then I hope there are plenty more around.

Are you seriously trying to say "The Law" right or wrong?

Would you 50 years ago have turned in your friends because they were jewish
or communist?
Would you 300 years ago have turned in your friend because he was of the
"wong" religion?
I could go on - There are many other examples.


Slatts