Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA scan of the
spine showed the following scores:
T -3.0
Z -2.8
Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.

However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
T -1.8
Z -0.7

How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my other
bones?
--
Aloke
----
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Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

My bone density test showed that my hips were worse than my back 2 years
ago.

I used to have such backaches until I started taking Fosamax for
Osteoporosis.

shirleyann

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Aloke Prasad wrote:

: I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain.

Vitamin D deficiency can have a role in lower back pain and it also
contributes to osteoporosis.

* w w w .bmj . com /cgi/content/full/331/7508/109-a

: A DEXA scan
: of the spine showed the following scores:
: T -3.0
: Z -2.8
: Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
:
: However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
: T -1.8
: Z -0.7
:
: How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
: other bones?

--
Juhana

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Is lack of Vit D implicated in back pain because of it causing osteoporosis?
Or is low vit. D an independent cause of back pain?

My back pain never radiated to my legs etc. So I am suspecting
micro-fractures rather than degenerative disk disorder (which my current
orthopedic surgeon diagnosed before the DEXA results).

Maybe I can talk him into a MRI of the spine. ..
--
Aloke
----
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"Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:4u27ntF160ctdU1@mid.individual . net ...
> Aloke Prasad wrote:
>
> : I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain.
>
> Vitamin D deficiency can have a role in lower back pain and it also
> contributes to osteoporosis.
>
> * w w w .bmj . com /cgi/content/full/331/7508/109-a
>
> : A DEXA scan
> : of the spine showed the following scores:
> : T -3.0
> : Z -2.8
> : Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
> :
> : However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
> : T -1.8
> : Z -0.7
> :
> : How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
> : other bones?
>
> --
> Juhana
>
>

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Aloke Prasad wrote:
: Is lack of Vit D implicated in back pain because of it causing
: osteoporosis? Or is low vit. D an independent cause of back pain?

Probably no one knows that for sure.

: My back pain never radiated to my legs etc. So I am suspecting
: micro-fractures rather than degenerative disk disorder (which my
: current orthopedic surgeon diagnosed before the DEXA results).
:
: Maybe I can talk him into a MRI of the spine. ..
:
: "Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail . com > wrote in
: message news:4u27ntF160ctdU1@mid.individual . net ...
:: Aloke Prasad wrote:
::
::: I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain.
::
:: Vitamin D deficiency can have a role in lower back pain and it also
:: contributes to osteoporosis.
::
:: * w w w .bmj . com /cgi/content/full/331/7508/109-a
::
::: A DEXA scan
::: of the spine showed the following scores:
::: T -3.0
::: Z -2.8
::: Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
:::
::: However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
::: T -1.8
::: Z -0.7
:::
::: How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
::: other bones?
::
:: --
:: Juhana

--
Juhana

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?


"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
news:ocIeh.3185$ja6.3153@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA scan of the spine showed the
>following scores:
> T -3.0
> Z -2.8
> Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
>
> However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
> T -1.8
> Z -0.7
>
> How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my other bones?

One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is stressed.
It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than your spine.
In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change bone density
(in either direction).

Art

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?


"Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
news:vF%eh.182832$Fi1.25585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>
> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ocIeh.3185$ja6.3153@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>>I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA scan of
>>the spine showed the following scores:
>> T -3.0
>> Z -2.8
>> Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
>>
>> However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
>> T -1.8
>> Z -0.7
>>
>> How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my other
>> bones?
>
> One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is
> stressed.
> It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than your
> spine.
> In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change bone
> density
> (in either direction).

I exercise vigorously (heart rate of 160) on a stationary bile for 6
hrs/week. I also do some weights on Nautilus machines.

It was a shock to hear that I had osteo. in my spine. I had always thought
that my back pain was because of disc issues.
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Aloke Prasad wrote:
: "Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
: news:vF%eh.182832$Fi1.25585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
::
:: "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
:: news:ocIeh.3185$ja6.3153@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
::: I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA
::: scan of the spine showed the following scores:
::: T -3.0
::: Z -2.8
::: Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
:::
::: However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
::: T -1.8
::: Z -0.7
:::
::: How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
::: other bones?
::
:: One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is
:: stressed.
:: It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than
:: your spine.
:: In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change
:: bone density
:: (in either direction).
:
: I exercise vigorously (heart rate of 160) on a stationary bile for 6
: hrs/week.

It is very good that you exercise but stationary bike is not ideal in
preserving bone mineral density as it is not weight baring.

: I also do some weights on Nautilus machines.
:
: It was a shock to hear that I had osteo. in my spine. I had always
: thought that my back pain was because of disc issues.

--
Juhana

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?


"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
news:X9pfh.3408$SJ3.3087@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>
> "Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
> news:vF%eh.182832$Fi1.25585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>>
>>
>> One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is stressed.
>> It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than your spine.
>> In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change bone density
>> (in either direction).
>
> I exercise vigorously (heart rate of 160) on a stationary bile for 6 hrs/week. I also do some
> weights on Nautilus machines.
>
> It was a shock to hear that I had osteo. in my spine. I had always thought that my back pain was
> because of disc issues.

On the assumptions that:
1) you are getting the proper minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc.)
and vitamins (D, etc), and
2) you don't have anything preventing your body from increasing bone
density (age, sex, certain medications, etc.),

then your bones must be "stressed" in order to increase bone density.
By "stressed," I mean that they must be subjected to some force that
causes them to microscopically compress. If they compress, they
attract calcium ions and get stronger/denser.

If, for example, you have low enough bone density, then the force
from walking will stress the skeleton (primarily the legs, with hips
and spine being subjected to less force) and lead to an increase in
bone density. (If you have one of the old dial scales, try walking
across the room, stepping on the scale while walking. The dial will
swing way past your weight (perhaps twice as much as your weight).
That is the force on your legs from walking.)

If, on the other hand, you normally run or jump or do some other
activity that will stress your skeleton, then walking won't provide
enough stress to affect your bone density.

Every activity you do can be analyzed this way. For example, bicycling:
First, you are sitting down. That means that 1) the legs only are exposed
to the force from pedaling and 2) the back is relatively stable and is
subjected to minimal impact/force/stress. That means that bicycling
won't help your spine. If you are on a "normal" bike, then unless you
leave the seat with every stroke (due to the force you are applying), then
there is less stress on your legs while bicycling than while walking.
If you are on a recumbent bicycle, it is _possible_ to stress your legs
more than walking does, but is unlikely. In addition, if you are stressing
your legs more than walking, it means you will have a fairly low cadence
with heavy resistance - which is bad for most people's knees.

Looking at a few other common exercises:
A seated military press: weight is supported at the hips, so there is no
stress on the legs. There will be some stress on the arms and spine
(from lifting (pushing) the weights). How much? it depends on how
much weight is being lifted. 5 lbs - probably there wouldn't be any
noticeable stress on most people. 300 lbs - probably noticeable stress
for most people. On the other hand, most people can't lift 300 lbs.

Bench press: force is directed through the arms to the shoulder, but
from there, the seat back or bench provides all resistance. The arms
may be stressed (if enough weight is used), but nothing else.

Leg extension: there will be some stress on the shin, but since the
force is perpendicular to the bone, compression would be only on
the back of the bone. There will also be some stress on the thigh
(from the muscles contracting). How much? I don't know. How
does it compare to the stress from walking? I don't know. But,
judging by what I see most people lift, it would be - at most -
the same as walking. What percentage of your weight are you
lifting?

A standing calf raise: weight is on the shoulders, and is supported
by the skeleton down through the feet. Everything but head, neck,
arms, and hands will be stressed. If enough weight is use. Keep
in mind that most calf lift machines are levers. The one at my
gym is designed so that if the shoulders go up five inches, the
weight only goes up three inches. That means that, pragmatically
speaking, I am lifting 3/5 of the weight and the machine is
lifting the rest.

How do your exercises compare?

Art

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?


"Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
news:iksfh.475255$QZ1.366776@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>
> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
> news:X9pfh.3408$SJ3.3087@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>>
>> "Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
>> news:vF%eh.182832$Fi1.25585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is
>>> stressed.
>>> It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than
>>> your spine.
>>> In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change bone
>>> density
>>> (in either direction).
>>
>> I exercise vigorously (heart rate of 160) on a stationary bile for 6
>> hrs/week. I also do some weights on Nautilus machines.
>>
>> It was a shock to hear that I had osteo. in my spine. I had always
>> thought that my back pain was because of disc issues.
>
> On the assumptions that:
> 1) you are getting the proper minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc.)
> and vitamins (D, etc), and
> 2) you don't have anything preventing your body from increasing bone
> density (age, sex, certain medications, etc.),
>
> then your bones must be "stressed" in order to increase bone density.
> By "stressed," I mean that they must be subjected to some force that
> causes them to microscopically compress. If they compress, they
> attract calcium ions and get stronger/denser.
....
> How do your exercises compare?

Stationary bike lets me do aerobic cardio exercises for long durations. I
don't see me running or using elliptical because of my knee ACL problems.

As for weights, I am doing what I can from the selection of machines at my
work gym. I do vertical press, which will put some compressive load on my
spine.

When should I be worried about these loads strengthening the bones vs.
fracturing the (weakened) bones? Any risk of that with a DEXA score of T=-3
and Z=-2.8?
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?


"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
news:Hl3gh.8879$Ye5.1898@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>
> "Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
> news:iksfh.475255$QZ1.366776@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>>
>> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:X9pfh.3408$SJ3.3087@tornado.ohiordc.rr . com ...
>>>
>>> "Art S" <TheDabbler01@att . net > wrote in message
>>> news:vF%eh.182832$Fi1.25585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att . net ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One of the factors affecting bone density is how much the bone is stressed.
>>>> It is possible that your normal activities stress your hip more than your spine.
>>>> In addition, if I recall correctly, the hip takes longer to change bone density
>>>> (in either direction).
>>>
>>> I exercise vigorously (heart rate of 160) on a stationary bile for 6 hrs/week. I also do some
>>> weights on Nautilus machines.
>>>
>>> It was a shock to hear that I had osteo. in my spine. I had always thought that my back pain was
>>> because of disc issues.
>>
>> On the assumptions that:
>> 1) you are getting the proper minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc.)
>> and vitamins (D, etc), and
>> 2) you don't have anything preventing your body from increasing bone
>> density (age, sex, certain medications, etc.),
>>
>> then your bones must be "stressed" in order to increase bone density.
>> By "stressed," I mean that they must be subjected to some force that
>> causes them to microscopically compress. If they compress, they
>> attract calcium ions and get stronger/denser.
> ....
>> How do your exercises compare?
>
> Stationary bike lets me do aerobic cardio exercises for long durations. I don't see me running or
> using elliptical because of my knee ACL problems.
>

I don't see any problem with doing the exercise - just realize that it won't
do anything for your bone density.

> As for weights, I am doing what I can from the selection of machines at my work gym. I do
> vertical press, which will put some compressive load on my spine.
>
> When should I be worried about these loads strengthening the bones vs. fracturing the (weakened)
> bones? Any risk of that with a DEXA score of T=-3 and Z=-2.8?

Unfortunately, nobody can tell you "as long as you lift less than X lbs, you
will be OK". For any given person, the lower their bone density the more
likely they are to get a fracture. But any two people can't be compared
because bone density is only one factor and we don't know how to measure
the other factors or what their affect is.

You can ask your doctor, and hope for a useful answer.

I ended up switching to free-weight compound exercises (essentially multi-joint
exercises) like squatting, deadlifting, and bench pressing because that way
I had the slowest increase in how much weight I could lift which, in turn,
allowed the most time for bone density to increase. It also restricted which
gyms I could use, though.

Art

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

It's very possible. But more importantly, have you been tested by an
endocrinologist? I would say that this is far from normal for a 45 y/o
man. It may be secondary to some other condition that is causing it.

Larry E.

Aloke Prasad wrote:
> I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA scan of the
> spine showed the following scores:
> T -3.0
> Z -2.8
> Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
>
> However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
> T -1.8
> Z -0.7
>
> How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my other
> bones?

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

I am seeing my orthopedic surgeon on Jan 15. I'll press for blood tests for
testosterone, parathyroid hormone and calcium.

I do some weights (chest, arms and leg extensions). I have also started on
1200 mg Ca and 800 mg Vit. D supplements daily (in addition to ghucosamine).

By the way, my previous orthopedic surgeon (who has now retired) had
suspected osteoporosis back in 2000 based on regular x-ray. He did
reconstruction of my ACL back then. I don't know why he did not peruse that
issue.
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

"Larry" <larry@nospam . net > wrote in message
news:oB4fh.277$Vq.121@newsfe12.lga...
> It's very possible. But more importantly, have you been tested by an
> endocrinologist? I would say that this is far from normal for a 45 y/o
> man. It may be secondary to some other condition that is causing it.
>
> Larry E.
>
> Aloke Prasad wrote:
>> I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA scan of
>> the spine showed the following scores:
>> T -3.0
>> Z -2.8
>> Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
>>
>> However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
>> T -1.8
>> Z -0.7
>>
>> How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my other
>> bones?

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Aloke Prasad wrote:
: I am seeing my orthopedic surgeon on Jan 15. I'll press for blood
: tests for testosterone, parathyroid hormone and calcium.

I suggest that you have your circulating vitamin D levels [25(OH)D] assessed
too. These levels should be at least > 80 nmol/l (preferrably 90-100 nmol/l)
to prevent fracture risk.

: I do some weights (chest, arms and leg extensions). I have also
: started on 1200 mg Ca and 800 mg Vit. D supplements daily (in
: addition to ghucosamine).

800 mg of vitamin D would be a toxic dose. I guess you mean 800 mcg
(micrograms). Depending on your location that might be too low dosage to
keep circulating vitamin D at an optimal level. What is your location?

: By the way, my previous orthopedic surgeon (who has now retired) had
: suspected osteoporosis back in 2000 based on regular x-ray. He did
: reconstruction of my ACL back then. I don't know why he did not
: peruse that issue.
:
: "Larry" <larry@nospam . net > wrote in message
: news:oB4fh.277$Vq.121@newsfe12.lga...
:: It's very possible. But more importantly, have you been tested by an
:: endocrinologist? I would say that this is far from normal for a 45
:: y/o man. It may be secondary to some other condition that is causing
:: it.
::
:: Larry E.
::
:: Aloke Prasad wrote:
::: I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA
::: scan of the spine showed the following scores:
::: T -3.0
::: Z -2.8
::: Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
:::
::: However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
::: T -1.8
::: Z -0.7
:::
::: How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
::: other bones?

--
Juhana

Re: Osteoporosis of spine but not hip?

Juhana Harju wrote:
: Aloke Prasad wrote:
:: I am seeing my orthopedic surgeon on Jan 15. I'll press for blood
:: tests for testosterone, parathyroid hormone and calcium.
:
: I suggest that you have your circulating vitamin D levels [25(OH)D]
: assessed too. These levels should be at least > 80 nmol/l
: (preferrably 90-100 nmol/l) to prevent fracture risk.
:
:: I do some weights (chest, arms and leg extensions). I have also
:: started on 1200 mg Ca and 800 mg Vit. D supplements daily (in
:: addition to ghucosamine).
:
: 800 mg of vitamin D would be a toxic dose. I guess you mean 800 mcg
: (micrograms).

Now I made a mistake. :-) My intention was to write 800 IU (= 20 mcg).

: Depending on your location that might be too low dosage
: to keep circulating vitamin D at an optimal level. What is your
: location?
:
:: By the way, my previous orthopedic surgeon (who has now retired) had
:: suspected osteoporosis back in 2000 based on regular x-ray. He did
:: reconstruction of my ACL back then. I don't know why he did not
:: peruse that issue.
::
:: "Larry" <larry@nospam . net > wrote in message
:: news:oB4fh.277$Vq.121@newsfe12.lga...
::: It's very possible. But more importantly, have you been tested by an
::: endocrinologist? I would say that this is far from normal for a 45
::: y/o man. It may be secondary to some other condition that is causing
::: it.
:::
::: Larry E.
:::
::: Aloke Prasad wrote:
:::: I am a healthy 45 yr old male with some lower back pain. A DEXA
:::: scan of the spine showed the following scores:
:::: T -3.0
:::: Z -2.8
:::: Diagnosis:Osteoporosis.
::::
:::: However, the score for my Pelvis was good (no osteoporosis)
:::: T -1.8
:::: Z -0.7
::::
:::: How is it possible for me to have oteop. in my spine but not in my
:::: other bones?

--
Juhana