ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from China.
Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather large
mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring my work and
the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger bracket broke. I
caught it just in time before it crashed to the floor. The customer looked
at me like I was an idiot. Upon further review the ring on mirror that hooks
to the hanger on the wall completely separated. It was not welded just
pressed together. I explained this to the customer but of course it
couldn't be her problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from China.

Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.

Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

"evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
news:tlZUj.2$OT1.0@trnddc03...
> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
> China.
> Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather large
> mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring my work
> and
> the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger bracket broke. I
> caught it just in time before it crashed to the floor. The customer looked
> at me like I was an idiot. Upon further review the ring on mirror that
> hooks
> to the hanger on the wall completely separated. It was not welded just
> pressed together. I explained this to the customer but of course it
> couldn't be her problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from China.
>
> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>
> Rich


I guess you have to start inspecting everything you install, and if made in
China, get disclaimers signed by your customers.

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> "evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
> news:tlZUj.2$OT1.0@trnddc03...
>> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
>> China.
>> Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather large
>> mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring my work
>> and
>> the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger bracket broke. I
>> caught it just in time before it crashed to the floor. The customer
>> looked at me like I was an idiot. Upon further review the ring on mirror
>> that hooks
>> to the hanger on the wall completely separated. It was not welded just
>> pressed together. I explained this to the customer but of course it
>> couldn't be her problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from
>> China.
>>
>> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>>
>> Rich
>
>
> I guess you have to start inspecting everything you install, and if made
> in China, get disclaimers signed by your customers.

Something like: Any PRODUCTS MADE IN CHINA will not be warrantied due to
inferior manufacturing practices.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

evodawg <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in news:mF_Uj.1553$Uz2.12@trnddc06:

> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> "evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
>> news:tlZUj.2$OT1.0@trnddc03...
>>> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
>>> China.
>>> Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather large
>>> mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring my
>>> work and
>>> the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger bracket
>>> broke. I caught it just in time before it crashed to the floor. The
>>> customer looked at me like I was an idiot. Upon further review the
>>> ring on mirror that hooks
>>> to the hanger on the wall completely separated. It was not welded
>>> just pressed together. I explained this to the customer but of
>>> course it couldn't be her problem since she bought a cheap piece of
>>> crap from China.
>>>
>>> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>
>>
>> I guess you have to start inspecting everything you install, and if
>> made in China, get disclaimers signed by your customers.
>
> Something like: Any PRODUCTS MADE IN CHINA will not be warrantied due
> to inferior manufacturing practices.

Better have another form handy for when the customers might be Chinese.
Well, maybe not...

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!


"evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
news:tlZUj.2$OT1.0@trnddc03...
> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
> China.
> Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather large
> mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring my work
> and
> the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger bracket broke. I
> caught it just in time before it crashed to the floor. The customer looked
> at me like I was an idiot. Upon further review the ring on mirror that
> hooks
> to the hanger on the wall completely separated. It was not welded just
> pressed together. I explained this to the customer but of course it
> couldn't be her problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from China.
>
> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>
> Rich
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586


You really can't be held responsible for failure of materials provided by
your customer. Its a shame some people are so critical as to blame you.

Its true there is a serious quality problem from goods made in china but
only part of it is the Chinese fault. Part of the blame is for the
companies who buy manufactured products with only price in mind and never
inspect the facility or send anyone in person. There is a reason these
things are so much cheaper than goods made in the west, its because we ask
for it and we got what we pay for and corners are cut in every place they
can.

China is developing quickly. Pretty soon their workers will get payed more
and the recent quality problems in the news will force a culture of change
in the manufacturing community there (it is already happening) as a result
the prices will climb and we will be complaining about the same thing from
goods made elsewhere (likely vietnam next).

If your customer wanted a quality mirror, she should have payed more for it.

We all seem to want stuff priced next to nothing but we complain when we get
what we pay for. Damn are we spoiled.

Its actually far more complicated than that. Even if you try to make
quality goods, counterfit components will sneek in and get you anyway.

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

clipped

>We all seem to want stuff priced next to nothing but we complain when we get
>what we pay for. Damn are we spoiled.
>
>
>
I heard part of a news piece last evening about the effects of the
economy on food banks. They
interviewed folks who run food banks and can't provide for the increased
demand. She told
about people who drive Mercedes and can't buy food. The commentator
said that a lot lot of
prosperous-but-out-of-money folks would not be interviewed on camera,
out of embarassment.

With all the bitching and moaning about the price of gasoline, nobody
has said, "Cut back.", as
if it is unthinkable. Of course, sympathy goes to those who have to
drive distance. Jeesh,
I still have the ration book my parents saved from WWII. We cranked the
thermostats way, way
down during the Iran embargo; got to wear blue jeans to work :o)

$5/gal gas would probably be one of the best things that ever happened
to US. Could sell all
the school buses in urban areas for scrap and let junior walk to school.

>Its actually far more complicated than that. Even if you try to make
>quality goods, counterfit components will sneek in and get you anyway.
>
>
>
>

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

evodawg wrote:
> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
> China. Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather
> large mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring
> my work and the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger
> bracket broke. I caught it just in time before it crashed to the
> floor. The customer looked at me like I was an idiot. Upon further
> review the ring on mirror that hooks to the hanger on the wall
> completely separated. It was not welded just pressed together. I
> explained this to the customer but of course it couldn't be her
> problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from China.
>
> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>

I doubt you will either.

Did you complain about the boards you used for the other projects being too
long? Or not being pre-nailed?

Sometimes "ready-to-install" items are not and must be adjusted, tuned,
shaped, re-worked, twisted, sanded, or even, god forbid, "some assembly
required."

Ever buy a toilet that came with a wax ring? Or a "pre-hung" door that had a
tube of caulk in the kit?

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail . com > wrote in message
news:L_qdnTPg9J0dELjVnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@earthlink . com ...
> evodawg wrote:
>> Anyone else having this problem with cheap ass crap coming over from
>> China. Did a bunch of odd jobs yesterday and one was hanging a rather
>> large mirror.After hanging it and while I was standing there admiring
>> my work and the customer standing there to, one side of the hanger
>> bracket broke. I caught it just in time before it crashed to the
>> floor. The customer looked at me like I was an idiot. Upon further
>> review the ring on mirror that hooks to the hanger on the wall
>> completely separated. It was not welded just pressed together. I
>> explained this to the customer but of course it couldn't be her
>> problem since she bought a cheap piece of crap from China.
>>
>> Doubt I will ever get a call from her again.
>>
>
> I doubt you will either.
>
> Did you complain about the boards you used for the other projects being
> too long? Or not being pre-nailed?
>
> Sometimes "ready-to-install" items are not and must be adjusted, tuned,
> shaped, re-worked, twisted, sanded, or even, god forbid, "some assembly
> required."
>
> Ever buy a toilet that came with a wax ring? Or a "pre-hung" door that had
> a tube of caulk in the kit?


No, but some people were lucky enough to get toothpaste with anti-freeze
included at no extra charge.

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

HeyBub wrote:

>
> Did you complain about the boards you used for the other projects being too
> long? Or not being pre-nailed?
>
> Sometimes "ready-to-install" items are not and must be adjusted, tuned,
> shaped, re-worked, twisted, sanded, or even, god forbid, "some assembly
> required."
>
> Ever buy a toilet that came with a wax ring? Or a "pre-hung" door that had a
> tube of caulk in the kit?
>
>
>
What "adjustments" do you recommend being done on a mirror bracket that
likely had a bad weld or was made from soft material?

What "adjustments" would you recommend for the bag of soft hardware
(bolts) that if it had an honest grade it would likely be -3 my friend
bought at home cheepo for a project he asked me to help him with?

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

HeyBub wrote:


>
> Did you complain about the boards you used for the other projects being
> too long? Or not being pre-nailed?

First of all Dude, I'm a master carpenter and furniture builder and I know
how to cut a board!

>
> Sometimes "ready-to-install" items are not and must be adjusted, tuned,
> shaped, re-worked, twisted, sanded, or even, god forbid, "some assembly
> required."

And your point is?

>
> Ever buy a toilet that came with a wax ring? Or a "pre-hung" door that had
> a tube of caulk in the kit?

Why would you need a tube of caulk for a door? Obviously you have never
installed one. The only time I use caulk, painted crown molding edge
treatment.

A lot of what you buy you don't even know where's it's made. Lot of what you
buy from China has hidden defects. Defects that you would not think would
fail. Bottom line, China makes crap and they know it. The companies that
sell the crap know it to. Profit and volume is the only thing that drives
these companies not quality.

It's finally starting to hit some of the American public and they're
starting to take notice. Some of my high end customers are asking me to
build them the furniture they want. Why? They know China builds crap and
try to find furniture made in US. It does not exist, except in high end
studios and specialty shops on line.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

evodawg wrote:
>
>>
>> Ever buy a toilet that came with a wax ring? Or a "pre-hung" door
>> that had a tube of caulk in the kit?
>
> Why would you need a tube of caulk for a door? Obviously you have
> never installed one. The only time I use caulk, painted crown molding
> edge treatment.

Okay. Maybe that's why your doors leak and mine don't. Or it might be
because you install better than I. I just caulk everything that could
conceivably leak and they don't.

>
> A lot of what you buy you don't even know where's it's made. Lot of
> what you buy from China has hidden defects. Defects that you would
> not think would fail. Bottom line, China makes crap and they know it.
> The companies that sell the crap know it to. Profit and volume is the
> only thing that drives these companies not quality.

Ever buy a Ford, Chevrolet, or Chrysler? Ever buy a home?

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

evodawg <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote:


>Why would you need a tube of caulk for a door? Obviously you have never
>installed one. The only time I use caulk, painted crown molding edge
>treatment.

Exterior?
-- Doug

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!


"evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
news:3ijVj.564$5b3.81@trnddc05...
>
>>
> First of all Dude, I'm a master carpenter and furniture builder and I know
> how to cut a board!
>
But can you join two boards together? Do you have the skills and the time
to make joints such as at
* w w w .chinese-furniture . com /cgi-bin/ccf.cgi?stt=stp&pgn=c_furniture/j_cornerleg.html&id=1209660144-66.249.73.227-16201 -
- I don't think so.

[snip]

> Some of my high end customers are asking me to
> build them the furniture they want. Why? They know China builds crap and
> try to find furniture made in US. It does not exist, except in high end
> studios and specialty shops on line.
>
Q: Do you know what you get when you buy cheap furniture? --

A: Cheap furniture!

Low quality Western-style furniture is ordered by the U.S mass marketers to
be competitive in a mass market. High end Chinese furniture is much more
expensive and may take years to produce. It's very difficult to
special-order a piece of good furniture because the construction time and
attention to detail makes the delivery date months or even years away.

You've been looking in the wrong places, for the wrong kind of product. To
see good Chinese work, you should read Chinese Domestic Furniture in
Photographs and Measured Drawings by Gustav Ecke and you should look at good
Chinese furniture products. You'll find a level of workmanship and
attention to detail that doesn't exist outside of China. A Chinese
woodworker will routinely make compound joinery with a level of complexity
that is an order of magnitude greater than in Western furniture. The design
will be braced and counter-braced with no mechanical fasteners whatsoever
and the joinery will be unusually complex in order to hide the joinery
methods..

I have a Huanghuali (yellow rosewood) altar table in an antique design, made
in China with antique lumber recycled from a demolished house, of
extraordinary design and extremely ornate carving and joinery. For our
bedroom I bought three imported 8'W x 9'H teak walls with a hand-carved
border flower motif that runs the length and height of each panel.
Something this intricate and detailed could never be produced in the U.S.
because American woodworkers don't have the attention to detail, the
attention span -- or the market -- to produce and sell such an item.

The difference is that even good Western furniture is eventually disposable,
replaced after its useful life is over.

Good Chinese furniture is built to be a permanent fisture, handed down
through the family for generations.

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

On Sun, 11 May 2008 20:46:19 -0400, "JimR" <jimr@invalid . net > wrote:

>
>"evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
>news:3ijVj.564$5b3.81@trnddc05...
>>
>>>
>> First of all Dude, I'm a master carpenter and furniture builder and I know
>> how to cut a board!
>>
>But can you join two boards together? Do you have the skills and the time
>to make joints such as at
> * w w w .chinese-furniture . com /cgi-bin/ccf.cgi?stt=stp&pgn=c_furniture/j_cornerleg.html&id=1209660144-66.249.73.227-16201 -
>- I don't think so.
>
>[snip]
>
>> Some of my high end customers are asking me to
>> build them the furniture they want. Why? They know China builds crap and
>> try to find furniture made in US. It does not exist, except in high end
>> studios and specialty shops on line.
>>
>Q: Do you know what you get when you buy cheap furniture? --
>
>A: Cheap furniture!
>
>Low quality Western-style furniture is ordered by the U.S mass marketers to
>be competitive in a mass market. High end Chinese furniture is much more
>expensive and may take years to produce. It's very difficult to
>special-order a piece of good furniture because the construction time and
>attention to detail makes the delivery date months or even years away.
>
>You've been looking in the wrong places, for the wrong kind of product. To
>see good Chinese work, you should read Chinese Domestic Furniture in
>Photographs and Measured Drawings by Gustav Ecke and you should look at good
>Chinese furniture products. You'll find a level of workmanship and
>attention to detail that doesn't exist outside of China. A Chinese
>woodworker will routinely make compound joinery with a level of complexity
>that is an order of magnitude greater than in Western furniture. The design
>will be braced and counter-braced with no mechanical fasteners whatsoever
>and the joinery will be unusually complex in order to hide the joinery
>methods..
>
>I have a Huanghuali (yellow rosewood) altar table in an antique design, made
>in China with antique lumber recycled from a demolished house, of
>extraordinary design and extremely ornate carving and joinery. For our
>bedroom I bought three imported 8'W x 9'H teak walls with a hand-carved
>border flower motif that runs the length and height of each panel.
>Something this intricate and detailed could never be produced in the U.S.
>because American woodworkers don't have the attention to detail, the
>attention span -- or the market -- to produce and sell such an item.
>
>The difference is that even good Western furniture is eventually disposable,
>replaced after its useful life is over.
>
>Good Chinese furniture is built to be a permanent fisture, handed down
>through the family for generations.
>

Thanks for the endorsement. I have an across four-generational set of
dark rosewood furniture and altar table plus some carved figures that
will look gorgeous in any collector's mansion. Unfortunately not in my
modest Tudor Style house. But its a family heirloom so I will have to
pass them on to my son when the time comes. I have seen in rich
Chinese homes the quality of fine Chinese furniture as you have
described. The workmanship is so precise that the joints look glued
but aren't and everything is friction fit, not a nail anywhere. There
is nothing comparable in western woodworking and I have seen enough of
the Antiques Roadshow valuations to appreciate western craftmanship.

This skill is still around in good measure. I wandered into a home
furnishings merchants district with two large cube furniture centers
(four stories with more than 160 stores on each floor plus other
smaller, but still substantial standalone businesses) in Beijing a
couple of years ago and was agog at the modern stuff China
manufactures. Lamps and chandeliers, plumbing fixtures and shower
stalls, bedroom and sitting room furniture. Large polished stone slabs
of many colurs and patterns. Solid wood flooring of exotic woods I
have not seen in North American stores. Most impressive were the
kitchen cabinets and fixtures ranging from old style wood cabinets to
the latest Scandinavian style stuff, each displayed in a 20 x 20 foot
showroom. For sure none of these fancy stuff will fit into an average
1000 sq ft or less apartment. So they must be all for export. The
stuff you see at Wally's and HM and such are the mass produced stuff
that must have a good demand in our homes. The quality stuff is
probably imported by N. American specialists shops and marketed under
these shops' names (implied American or European made.)

You get what you pay for. The OP should know that that's what he is
paid to do, his skill an dexperience to recommend and install items of
value. If he or the customer picks up a piece of crap don't condemn
the whole country and a people. Think. Who has already eaten your
lunch?

Re: ChiCom Crap costing me money!!!

JimR wrote:
> "evodawg" <evodawg@nospam . net > wrote in message
> news:3ijVj.564$5b3.81@trnddc05...
>> First of all Dude, I'm a master carpenter and furniture builder and I know
>> how to cut a board!
>>
> But can you join two boards together? Do you have the skills and the time
> to make joints such as at
> * w w w .chinese-furniture . com /cgi-bin/ccf.cgi?stt=stp&pgn=c furniture/j cornerleg.html&id=1209660144-66.249.73.227-16201 -
> - I don't think so.
>
> [snip]
>
>> Some of my high end customers are asking me to
>> build them the furniture they want. Why? They know China builds crap and
>> try to find furniture made in US. It does not exist, except in high end
>> studios and specialty shops on line.
>>
> Q: Do you know what you get when you buy cheap furniture? --
>
> A: Cheap furniture!
>
> Low quality Western-style furniture is ordered by the U.S mass marketers to
> be competitive in a mass market. High end Chinese furniture is much more
> expensive and may take years to produce. It's very difficult to
> special-order a piece of good furniture because the construction time and
> attention to detail makes the delivery date months or even years away.
>
> You've been looking in the wrong places, for the wrong kind of product. To
> see good Chinese work, you should read Chinese Domestic Furniture in
> Photographs and Measured Drawings by Gustav Ecke and you should look at good
> Chinese furniture products. You'll find a level of workmanship and
> attention to detail that doesn't exist outside of China. A Chinese
> woodworker will routinely make compound joinery with a level of complexity
> that is an order of magnitude greater than in Western furniture. The design
> will be braced and counter-braced with no mechanical fasteners whatsoever
> and the joinery will be unusually complex in order to hide the joinery
> methods..
>
> I have a Huanghuali (yellow rosewood) altar table in an antique design, made
> in China with antique lumber recycled from a demolished house, of
> extraordinary design and extremely ornate carving and joinery. For our
> bedroom I bought three imported 8'W x 9'H teak walls with a hand-carved
> border flower motif that runs the length and height of each panel.
> Something this intricate and detailed could never be produced in the U.S.
> because American woodworkers don't have the attention to detail, the
> attention span -- or the market -- to produce and sell such an item.
>
> The difference is that even good Western furniture is eventually disposable,
> replaced after its useful life is over.
>
> Good Chinese furniture is built to be a permanent fisture, handed down
> through the family for generations.
>
>
That is a very accurate description. Anyone who thinks the Chinese "make
crap" doesn't understand big box. Big box buyers scour the earth looking
for the cheapest stuff they can buy in order to maximize their margins.
They have large marketing budgets to tell you you are getting a good
deal from them.

China has one of the oldest civilizations on the earth and they are
smart and skilled. When a big box outfit places an order for furniture
made from particle board with a picture of wood glued on it that is
fastened with staples that is exactly what the Chinese will build.