Skirt on the house

Skirt on the house

Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due to
heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.

Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
this type of foundation.

I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s for
framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The other,
pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2" thick (remaining
dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block on sequential
runs above the first run. The first course would have open joints to allow
waterflow on the downhill side. This along with heavy rainfall, and
potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a side of a hill.

I have previously built the access door and framed around that between one
set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to prevent dog
entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns regarding lines.
One is the water line which is relatively shallow, and the 2 AC lines to and
from the AC compressor. How should the contractor approach this?

Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?

What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of skirt?

--
Dave

Re: Skirt on the house

Dioclese wrote:
> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due to
> heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>
> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
> this type of foundation.
>
> I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s for
> framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The other,
> pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2" thick (remaining
> dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block on sequential
> runs above the first run. The first course would have open joints to allow
> waterflow on the downhill side. This along with heavy rainfall, and
> potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a side of a hill.
>
> I have previously built the access door and framed around that between one
> set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to prevent dog
> entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns regarding lines.
> One is the water line which is relatively shallow, and the 2 AC lines to and
> from the AC compressor. How should the contractor approach this?
>
> Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?
>
> What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of skirt?
>
How about HardiPanels. Made by James Hardee Co. Or tile backer bd. Once
this stuff is nailed up not much can happen to it for the worse. tonyg

Re: Skirt on the house

"TonyG" <tonyg618@nospamhotmail . com > wrote in message
news:ft8jnc$atb$1@news.datemas.de...
> Dioclese wrote:
>> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due
>> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
>> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>>
>> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
>> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
>> this type of foundation.
>>
>> I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s for
>> framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The
>> other, pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2" thick
>> (remaining dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block on
>> sequential runs above the first run. The first course would have open
>> joints to allow waterflow on the downhill side. This along with heavy
>> rainfall, and potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a side of
>> a hill.
>>
>> I have previously built the access door and framed around that between
>> one set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to
>> prevent dog entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns
>> regarding lines. One is the water line which is relatively shallow, and
>> the 2 AC lines to and from the AC compressor. How should the contractor
>> approach this?
>>
>> Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?
>>
>> What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of skirt?
>>
> How about HardiPanels. Made by James Hardee Co. Or tile backer bd. Once
> this stuff is nailed up not much can happen to it for the worse. tonyg

Don't want to use the James Hardie stuff for two reasons. Its terribly
sensitive to cracking an such from impacts. 2ndly, the stuff should not be
use within 1" of the soil line due to wicking. Direct water contact,
pooling, makes it excessively brittle. My garage has the James Hardie
horizontal siding on it, I've already done my homework on that. House has
similar, just different manufacturer.

Does anyone know about stucco regarding sitting in pooled water at the soil
line?
--
Dave

Re: Skirt on the house

On Apr 6, 9:27 pm, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
> "TonyG" <tonyg...@nospamhotmail . com > wrote in message
> > Dioclese wrote:
>
> >> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due
> >> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
> >> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>
> >> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
> >> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
> >> this type of foundation.
>
> >> I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s for
> >> framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The
> >> other, pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2" thick
> >> (remaining dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block on
> >> sequential runs above the first run. The first course would have open
> >> joints to allow waterflow on the downhill side. This along with heavy
> >> rainfall, and potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a side of
> >> a hill.
>
> >> I have previously built the access door and framed around that between
> >> one set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to
> >> prevent dog entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns
> >> regarding lines. One is the water line which is relatively shallow, and
> >> the 2 AC lines to and from the AC compressor. How should the contractor
> >> approach this?
>
> >> Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?
>
> >> What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of skirt?
>
> > How about HardiPanels. Made by James Hardee Co. Or tile backer bd. Once
> > this stuff is nailed up not much can happen to it for the worse. tonyg
>
> Don't want to use the James Hardie stuff for two reasons. Its terribly
> sensitive to cracking an such from impacts. 2ndly, the stuff should not be
> use within 1" of the soil line due to wicking. Direct water contact,
> pooling, makes it excessively brittle. My garage has the James Hardie
> horizontal siding on it, I've already done my homework on that. House has
> similar, just different manufacturer.
>
> Does anyone know about stucco regarding sitting in pooled water at the soil
> line?

I wouldn't use wood, whether it was treated or not. I'd use something
like Azek. It's an expanded PVC product and is great for such
applications. It takes and holds paint beautifully, and some people
don't even paint it. * w w w .azek . com /viewProduct.php?id=13

If the insurance company is insisting on a particular construction
method, and there's no real benefit, I'd be leery of the company. You
could use the Hardipanel stucco panels on top of the treated plywood
if you're concerned about impact.

As far as the stucco, if you're referring to the cementitious stuff,
it will hold up okay at the soil line as long as you've graded away
from the house and there's drainage, but be careful of what you'll be
hiding. * cowetafayettepest . com / wsn/page5.html

R

Re: Skirt on the house

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail . com > wrote in message
news:dd7a9aa5-47da-4bbf-8217-c26d9ac53d60@s37g2000prg.googlegroups . com ...
> On Apr 6, 9:27 pm, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
>> "TonyG" <tonyg...@nospamhotmail . com > wrote in message
>> > Dioclese wrote:
>>
>> >> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive
>> >> due
>> >> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and
>> >> beam
>> >> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>>
>> >> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
>> >> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt
>> >> on
>> >> this type of foundation.
>>
>> >> I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s
>> >> for
>> >> framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The
>> >> other, pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2"
>> >> thick
>> >> (remaining dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block
>> >> on
>> >> sequential runs above the first run. The first course would have open
>> >> joints to allow waterflow on the downhill side. This along with heavy
>> >> rainfall, and potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a side
>> >> of
>> >> a hill.
>>
>> >> I have previously built the access door and framed around that between
>> >> one set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to
>> >> prevent dog entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns
>> >> regarding lines. One is the water line which is relatively shallow,
>> >> and
>> >> the 2 AC lines to and from the AC compressor. How should the
>> >> contractor
>> >> approach this?
>>
>> >> Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?
>>
>> >> What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of
>> >> skirt?
>>
>> > How about HardiPanels. Made by James Hardee Co. Or tile backer bd. Once
>> > this stuff is nailed up not much can happen to it for the worse. tonyg
>>
>> Don't want to use the James Hardie stuff for two reasons. Its terribly
>> sensitive to cracking an such from impacts. 2ndly, the stuff should not
>> be
>> use within 1" of the soil line due to wicking. Direct water contact,
>> pooling, makes it excessively brittle. My garage has the James Hardie
>> horizontal siding on it, I've already done my homework on that. House
>> has
>> similar, just different manufacturer.
>>
>> Does anyone know about stucco regarding sitting in pooled water at the
>> soil
>> line?
>
> I wouldn't use wood, whether it was treated or not. I'd use something
> like Azek. It's an expanded PVC product and is great for such
> applications. It takes and holds paint beautifully, and some people
> don't even paint it. * w w w .azek . com /viewProduct.php?id=13
>
> If the insurance company is insisting on a particular construction
> method, and there's no real benefit, I'd be leery of the company. You
> could use the Hardipanel stucco panels on top of the treated plywood
> if you're concerned about impact.
>
> As far as the stucco, if you're referring to the cementitious stuff,
> it will hold up okay at the soil line as long as you've graded away
> from the house and there's drainage, but be careful of what you'll be
> hiding. * cowetafayettepest . com /_wsn/page5.html
>
> R

The prospective insurance company insists on a masonary type skirt for fire
retardantcy. That is, imagine a wind-driven fire in the proximity of my
home. Unlikely that PVC would ignite from wind-driven embers and similar,
masonary product will not.

Yellawood is guaranteed for 50 years. Today's wolmanized (treated - green
color) wood products and the previous version can't touch that. However,
I'm leery as you are on wood contact to soil for a long period of time.

Most homes on piers around here have native rock skirts. They also use
primarily steel roofing for fire prevention for many years prior to it
becoming more likely to be used as presently done.
--
Dave

Re: Skirt on the house

"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
news:7b2dnR-ks-b6W2fanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@earthlink . com ...
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail . com > wrote in message
> news:dd7a9aa5-47da-4bbf-8217-c26d9ac53d60@s37g2000prg.googlegroups . com ...
>> On Apr 6, 9:27 pm, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
>>> "TonyG" <tonyg...@nospamhotmail . com > wrote in message
>>> > Dioclese wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive
>>> >> due
>>> >> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and
>>> >> beam
>>> >> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from
>>> >> contractors.
>>>
>>> >> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
>>> >> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt
>>> >> on
>>> >> this type of foundation.
>>>
>>> >> I've settled on 2 different types. One is the use of Yellawood 4X4s
>>> >> for
>>> >> framing and Yellawood plywood, with stucco (cheapest overall). The
>>> >> other, pouring slabs between the piers and laying one course of 2"
>>> >> thick
>>> >> (remaining dimensions same as cinder block), followed by cinder block
>>> >> on
>>> >> sequential runs above the first run. The first course would have
>>> >> open
>>> >> joints to allow waterflow on the downhill side. This along with
>>> >> heavy
>>> >> rainfall, and potential plumbing breaks. The house is built on a
>>> >> side of
>>> >> a hill.
>>>
>>> >> I have previously built the access door and framed around that
>>> >> between
>>> >> one set of piers. The house is surrounded by plastic latticework to
>>> >> prevent dog entry now, not an air-tight skirt. Their are 2 concerns
>>> >> regarding lines. One is the water line which is relatively shallow,
>>> >> and
>>> >> the 2 AC lines to and from the AC compressor. How should the
>>> >> contractor
>>> >> approach this?
>>>
>>> >> Is the stucco meeting the soil line a problem?
>>>
>>> >> What are the benefits and potential problems with either kind of
>>> >> skirt?
>>>
>>> > How about HardiPanels. Made by James Hardee Co. Or tile backer bd.
>>> > Once
>>> > this stuff is nailed up not much can happen to it for the worse. tonyg
>>>
>>> Don't want to use the James Hardie stuff for two reasons. Its terribly
>>> sensitive to cracking an such from impacts. 2ndly, the stuff should not
>>> be
>>> use within 1" of the soil line due to wicking. Direct water contact,
>>> pooling, makes it excessively brittle. My garage has the James Hardie
>>> horizontal siding on it, I've already done my homework on that. House
>>> has
>>> similar, just different manufacturer.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know about stucco regarding sitting in pooled water at the
>>> soil
>>> line?
>>
>> I wouldn't use wood, whether it was treated or not. I'd use something
>> like Azek. It's an expanded PVC product and is great for such
>> applications. It takes and holds paint beautifully, and some people
>> don't even paint it. * w w w .azek . com /viewProduct.php?id=13
>>
>> If the insurance company is insisting on a particular construction
>> method, and there's no real benefit, I'd be leery of the company. You
>> could use the Hardipanel stucco panels on top of the treated plywood
>> if you're concerned about impact.
>>
>> As far as the stucco, if you're referring to the cementitious stuff,
>> it will hold up okay at the soil line as long as you've graded away
>> from the house and there's drainage, but be careful of what you'll be
>> hiding. * cowetafayettepest . com /_wsn/page5.html
>>
>> R
>
> The prospective insurance company insists on a masonary type skirt for
> fire retardantcy. That is, imagine a wind-driven fire in the proximity of
> my home. Unlikely that PVC would ignite from wind-driven embers and
> similar, masonary product will not.
>
> Yellawood is guaranteed for 50 years. Today's wolmanized (treated - green
> color) wood products and the previous version can't touch that. However,
> I'm leery as you are on wood contact to soil for a long period of time.
>
> Most homes on piers around here have native rock skirts. They also use
> primarily steel roofing for fire prevention for many years prior to it
> becoming more likely to be used as presently done.
> --
> Dave
>

Thanks for the last link, it gave me an idea how to keep the Hardie siding
off the soil line. Just pour a deeper/higher slab between the piers.
--
Dave

Re: Skirt on the house

I had the same problem.
I used stucco screen with the felt attached.
Use metal studs, vinyl probably better, but more expensive.
But talk to a stucco guy before you do this. and get their ideas.
Do not forget to ventilate as moisture will now be your worst enemy.

I even took it one step further and put rigid foam insulation behind the
stucco felt. Do not put the foam in contact with the soil, as termites love
an easy meal.


"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
news:wdOdnbyxdKFKOmranZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@earthlink . com ...
> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due
> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>
> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
> this type of foundation.
>

Re: Skirt on the house

Anything between the framing and the stucco other than the plywood will
cause the stucco surface to be beyond the upper siding surface. That is,
will stick out horizontally beyond the siding surface.

Am considering a modified version by using the Hardie siding. Will have to
pour concrete between each pier though to make it work. Its going to be
interesting as there is no level area anywhere around the perimeter except
perhaps the back side of the house to any degree. I've already done 2 like
that for a trial/error for cinder block between piers. The digging in the
rock, and manual concrete mixing wasn't fun. Rico's link gave me an idea on
how to keep the water from wicking on the siding.

Its relatively dry in Central TX 90 % of the time. Will probably be okay.
I don't water the lawn often as the typical surburbanite does in this
region.
--
Dave
.
"Bill" <bargerw@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
news:nCpKj.32691$vr3.16097@bignews2.bellsouth . net ...
>I had the same problem.
> I used stucco screen with the felt attached.
> Use metal studs, vinyl probably better, but more expensive.
> But talk to a stucco guy before you do this. and get their ideas.
> Do not forget to ventilate as moisture will now be your worst enemy.
>
> I even took it one step further and put rigid foam insulation behind the
> stucco felt. Do not put the foam in contact with the soil, as termites
> love an easy meal.
>
>
> "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
> news:wdOdnbyxdKFKOmranZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@earthlink . com ...
>> Have been putting this off for 2 years now. Getting a bit expensive due
>> to heating and AC bills. The house has no skirt around the pier and beam
>> perimeter. Getting bids now over the next week or 2 from contractors.
>>
>> Basically, other than the obvious affect on heating and AC bills, an
>> insurance company that I want to go to requires a masonary type skirt on
>> this type of foundation.
>>
>
>

Re: Skirt on the house

The panels I installed were recessed back from the face of the brick.
When finished, the Stucco was just behind the visible plane of the brick
piers.
The brick piers were still visible with the stucco between the piers, not
covering the piers.

> Anything between the framing and the stucco other than the plywood will
> cause the stucco surface to be beyond the upper siding surface. That is,
> will stick out horizontally beyond the siding surface.
>

Re: Skirt on the house

My grandparents' home was on brick piers. For real ship-lap siding too. At
12 years old, grandpa assigned me to scrape and sand the entire place.
Grandma gave me a good meal, and a couple of dollars before I went home each
day I worked.
Anyways, the siding ran to just above the soil line there. The underside
was very dark, and extremely dry and dusty. They had a big advantage over
my house, very level building site.

--
Dave

"Bill" <bargerw@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
news:WWMKj.19934$%15.1164@bignews7.bellsouth . net ...
> The panels I installed were recessed back from the face of the brick.
> When finished, the Stucco was just behind the visible plane of the brick
> piers.
> The brick piers were still visible with the stucco between the piers, not
> covering the piers.
>
>> Anything between the framing and the stucco other than the plywood will
>> cause the stucco surface to be beyond the upper siding surface. That is,
>> will stick out horizontally beyond the siding surface.
>>
>
>

Re: Skirt on the house

Dioclese wrote:
> My grandparents' home was on brick piers. For real ship-lap siding too. At
> 12 years old, grandpa assigned me to scrape and sand the entire place.
> Grandma gave me a good meal, and a couple of dollars before I went home each
> day I worked.

Your Grandpa was only 12 years old? How old was Grandma?

--
Art