Government and airlines stealing your money?

Government and airlines stealing your money?

http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentidT2479>1A000

Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't get a
refund of taxes and fees.


"Like many fliers, Jay Shecter ended up with nonrefundable airline tickets
he couldn't use last year. So he tried to get the taxes and user fees
refunded on the two tickets he had on two different airlines.

Request denied. Both AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United
Airlines refused to refund the taxes and fees. Shecter had to pay a
so-called Passenger Facility Charge for each airport he was departing from,
though he wouldn't be using the facilities. He also had to pay the federal
excise tax on his canceled tickets, even though he wasn't using the
air-traffic-control services those taxes fund. And he had to pay the Sept.
11 security screening fee, even though he wasn't going through security
screening."


Incredible the things we put up with.

George L

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

"George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:

> Incredible the things we put up with.

So move to Russia.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

In article <g5cr8501ard@enews1.newsguy,com >,
"George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:

> http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentid=542479>1=41000
>
> Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't get a
> refund of taxes and fees.
>
>
Assuming the taxes are actually paid to the government, what part
of non-refundable are we having problems coming to grips with? Legally
the ticket is bought and the services paid for in advance.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?


"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:kurtullman-55FC64.08584313072008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns,net ...
> In article <g5cr8501ard@enews1.newsguy,com >,
> "George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
>
>> http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentidT2479>1A000
>>
>> Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't get a
>> refund of taxes and fees.
>>
>>
> Assuming the taxes are actually paid to the government, what part
> of non-refundable are we having problems coming to grips with? Legally
> the ticket is bought and the services paid for in advance.

How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
fees?

These are separate line items from the air fare, quoted separately and are
in addition to the fare, not as a part of the fare. Here is a copy from a
recent flight to Vegas:

AIRFARE: $182.32
FEDERAL TAXES: $13.68
PFC: $13.00
911 SECURITY: $10.00

If I cancel, I lose the airfare. Why do have to pay for additional services
and taxes on something I don't use and do not receive?

The question is, do the airlines have the right to make taxes and fees
"non-refundable". If so, why?

In the cruise business, if you cancel a cruise at the last minute (assuming
no insurance), the cruise fare may not be refundable, but the taxes and fees
are refunded.

George L

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

In article <g5d16a01g0q@enews1.newsguy,com >,
"George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:

>
>
> How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
> fees?
>
What about them? NON-refundable is non-refundable. I see no reason to
expect that parts of the NF ticker are refundable. Especially taxes and
governmental fees.


> If I cancel, I lose the airfare. Why do have to pay for additional services
> and taxes on something I don't use and do not receive?
>
You don't use the airfare either. Why is not using the taxes, etc.,
any different from not using the airfare in the case where you decided
to go non-refunable.

> The question is, do the airlines have the right to make taxes and fees
> "non-refundable". If so, why?
The article said that (with the possible exception of the 9-11
fees) it wasn't the airline that was making them non-refundable. It was
the Feds. Besides, I don't see why it would be airline's responsibility
to keep track of when these things expire and make the refunds. The beef
is with the Feds and if the fees are refundable and *I* don't use it,
then I should talk to the Feds and not the airlines about getting them
back.

>
> In the cruise business, if you cancel a cruise at the last minute (assuming
> no insurance), the cruise fare may not be refundable, but the taxes and fees
> are refunded.
>
Different set of taxes, different set of rules and regulations.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?


"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:kurtullman-36EAC6.10004213072008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns,net ...
> In article <g5d16a01g0q@enews1.newsguy,com >,
> "George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
>> fees?
>>
> What about them? NON-refundable is non-refundable. I see no reason to
> expect that parts of the NF ticker are refundable. Especially taxes and
> governmental fees.

Kurt, it is Sunday morning and I'm not going to get in a pissing contest
with you. Seems that if I were to post the sky is blue, you'll come along
and argue that it is really "aqua" or some such crap. I think you like to
argue just for the sake of arguing and I'm not interested in playing.

My opinion on this subject is pretty clear. If you disagree, that is fine
with me. You have as much right to be wrong as anyone else.

George L

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

In article <g5d2j2011rj@enews4.newsguy,com >,
"George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:

> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:kurtullman-36EAC6.10004213072008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns,net ...
> > In article <g5d16a01g0q@enews1.newsguy,com >,
> > "George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
> >> fees?
> >>
> > What about them? NON-refundable is non-refundable. I see no reason to
> > expect that parts of the NF ticker are refundable. Especially taxes and
> > governmental fees.
>
> Kurt, it is Sunday morning and I'm not going to get in a pissing contest
> with you. Seems that if I were to post the sky is blue, you'll come along
> and argue that it is really "aqua" or some such crap. I think you like to
> argue just for the sake of arguing and I'm not interested in playing.

I would mention that I have an opinion different from yours and have
said why I think it is correct. But since that would be interpreted as
saying the sky is aqua, I won't.
You don't get upset with the airline when the ticket expires and
you don't get the stuff you paid for. But somehow the taxes, etc., are
different. Especially since this isn't anything all that new or the
Feds did do some sort of "gotcha" by changing the rules at a late date.
Now if you want to discuss SHOULD they, then that is something you
have to bring up with the FAA, the taxing authority or your
Congresscritter.
Until then, you knew what the rules were when you bought it.

>
> My opinion on this subject is pretty clear. If you disagree, that is fine
> with me. You have as much right to be wrong as anyone else.
>
Apparently not.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

On Jul 13 2008 11:11 AM, George Leppla wrote:

> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:kurtullman-36EAC6.10004213072008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns,net ...
> > In article <g5d16a01g0q@enews1.newsguy,com >,
> > "George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
> >> fees?
> >>
> > What about them? NON-refundable is non-refundable. I see no reason to
> > expect that parts of the NF ticker are refundable. Especially taxes and
> > governmental fees.
>
> Kurt, it is Sunday morning and I'm not going to get in a pissing contest
> with you. Seems that if I were to post the sky is blue, you'll come along
> and argue that it is really "aqua" or some such crap. I think you like to
> argue just for the sake of arguing and I'm not interested in playing.
>
> My opinion on this subject is pretty clear. If you disagree, that is fine
> with me. You have as much right to be wrong as anyone else.
>
> George L

You sound a tad cranky this fine sunday morning George.
Either the humidity in Louisana is stiffling or you didn't get laid last
night.
Either way, take it easy on Kurt. He just has a little different opinion
on the airline situation.

Observant Lurker

----- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www .recgroups,com

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

>  AIRFARE: $182.32
>  FEDERAL TAXES: $13.68
>  PFC: $13.00
>  911 SECURITY: $10.00
>
> If I cancel, I lose the airfare.  Why do have to pay for additional services
> and taxes on something I don't use and do not receive?

The government doesn't know you aren't going to use the ticket. They
still have to provide the facility and security on the thought you
might show up.

Taxes aren't usually refundable.. If I buy a Whopper and Budweiser at
a Braves game, and decide not to eat them, they won't give me my sales
tax back. And if I leave after 2 innings, I don't get 7/9 of the taxes
returned to me.

If you get taxes back on a canceled cruise, that's a neat bonus for
cruisers. But it's not the norm.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

George Leppla wrote:
>
> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:kurtullman-55FC64.08584313072008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns,net ...
>> In article <g5cr8501ard@enews1.newsguy,com >,
>> "George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
>>
>>> http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentidT2479>1A000
>>>
>>> Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't
>>> get a
>>> refund of taxes and fees.
>>>
>>>
>> Assuming the taxes are actually paid to the government, what part
>> of non-refundable are we having problems coming to grips with? Legally
>> the ticket is bought and the services paid for in advance.
>
> How about Passenger facility Charge, taxes, etc and security screening
> fees?
>
> These are separate line items from the air fare, quoted separately and are
> in addition to the fare, not as a part of the fare. Here is a copy from
> a recent flight to Vegas:
>
> AIRFARE: $182.32
> FEDERAL TAXES: $13.68
> PFC: $13.00
> 911 SECURITY: $10.00
>
> If I cancel, I lose the airfare. Why do have to pay for additional
> services and taxes on something I don't use and do not receive?
>
> The question is, do the airlines have the right to make taxes and fees
> "non-refundable". If so, why?
>
> In the cruise business, if you cancel a cruise at the last minute (assuming
> no insurance), the cruise fare may not be refundable, but the taxes and
> fees
> are refunded.

In many states, a landlord has the obligation to try to mitigate his
loss when a tenant defaults on a lease. For instance, if Nonny's Bridal
Shop goes out of business in a shopping center storefront, the landlord
cannot usually just turn away other tenants who express an interest in
renting my vacated space while you chase me down and try to collect
defaulted rents. The rental income from the future tenant is used to
reduce what you'd seek from me. YMMV depending on the state.

When I cancel a cruise after making the final payment, or when I don't
use a nonrefundable ticket on an airplane, the cruise line or airline
will almost always make an attempt to resell my cabin or seat to someone
else- keeping both my forfeited ticket price AND the additional income
from the resale. There's no obligation on either to mitigate my loss.


--
Nonny

Nonnymus
I'm not who you think I am. I'm not who
I think I am. I am what I think you think I am.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

On Jul 13, 5:06 am, "George Leppla" <geo...@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
> http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentidT2479>1A000
>
> Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't get a
> refund of taxes and fees.
>
> "Like many fliers, Jay Shecter ended up with nonrefundable airline tickets
> he couldn't use last year. So he tried to get the taxes and user fees
> refunded on the two tickets he had on two different airlines.
>
> Request denied. Both AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United
> Airlines refused to refund the taxes and fees. Shecter had to pay a
> so-called Passenger Facility Charge for each airport he was departing from,
> though he wouldn't be using the facilities. He also had to pay the federal
> excise tax on his canceled tickets, even though he wasn't using the
> air-traffic-control services those taxes fund. And he had to pay the Sept.
> 11 security screening fee, even though he wasn't going through security
> screening."
>
> Incredible the things we put up with.
>
> George L

I've had the taxes and fees on REFUNDABLE tickets or frequent flyer
awards returned. Seems that it's the "non-refundable" part that is the
sticking point.

Rob "Fancypants" Taylor

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?


"Rob Taylor" <robtay23@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:92ecdff8-3340-4319-823e-fb16e7e06611@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jul 13, 5:06 am, "George Leppla" <geo...@cruisemaster,com > wrote:
>> http :// travel.msn,com /Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentidT2479>1A000
>>
>> Cancel or don't use a "non-refundable" airline ticket and you don't get a
>> refund of taxes and fees.
>>
>> "Like many fliers, Jay Shecter ended up with nonrefundable airline
>> tickets
>> he couldn't use last year. So he tried to get the taxes and user fees
>> refunded on the two tickets he had on two different airlines.
>>
>> Request denied. Both AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United
>> Airlines refused to refund the taxes and fees. Shecter had to pay a
>> so-called Passenger Facility Charge for each airport he was departing
>> from,
>> though he wouldn't be using the facilities. He also had to pay the
>> federal
>> excise tax on his canceled tickets, even though he wasn't using the
>> air-traffic-control services those taxes fund. And he had to pay the
>> Sept.
>> 11 security screening fee, even though he wasn't going through security
>> screening."
>>
>> Incredible the things we put up with.
>>
>> George L
>
> I've had the taxes and fees on REFUNDABLE tickets or frequent flyer
> awards returned. Seems that it's the "non-refundable" part that is the
> sticking point.

Well, that is interesting. The government is refunding taxes if you cancel
on a refundable fee but not doing refunds if you buy a cheaper,
non-refundable fee.

Something stinks here but when you get government regulation of any
industry, things usually don't work well.

George L

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?


"George Leppla" <george@cruisemaster,com > wrote in message
news:g5d1c0010t9@enews4.newsguy,com ...
>
> "> Something stinks here but when you get government regulation of any
> industry, things usually don't work well.
>
> George L
Truer words were never spoken.

I'm with you on this George. Gee, you get your sales taxes refunded when
you return a purchase. Seems like you shouldn't pay taxes if you don't use
the service. Maybe we should call our Congresscritter and get this changed.


--
--"Fortunately none of what is being discussed here will ever come to pass."
OR in AVLV

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

George Leppla wrote:

>
> "Like many fliers, Jay Shecter ended up with nonrefundable airline
> tickets he couldn't use last year. So he tried to get the taxes and user
> fees refunded on the two tickets he had on two different airlines.
>
> Request denied. Both AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s
> United Airlines refused to refund the taxes and fees. Shecter had to pay
> a so-called Passenger Facility Charge for each airport he was departing
> from, though he wouldn't be using the facilities. He also had to pay the
> federal excise tax on his canceled tickets, even though he wasn't using
> the air-traffic-control services those taxes fund. And he had to pay the
> Sept. 11 security screening fee, even though he wasn't going through
> security screening."
>

Wow, that sounds like the cruise lines and their "port charges." <grin>

--
Nonny

Nonnymus
I'm not who you think I am. I'm not who
I think I am. I am what I think you think I am.

Re: Government and airlines stealing your money?

In article <oNrek.13895$Fj5.1411@newsfe23.lga>,
Nonnymus <nobody@cox,net > wrote:

>
>
> Wow, that sounds like the cruise lines and their "port charges." <grin>

Although on my last cruise we were unable to stop at a Port and I got
an adjustment on my bill that sounded like it was the port charges.
About $15.00 a room IIRC