Pinging al, Barry

Pinging al, Barry

I have one of those semi-charity cases you two do so well. A 73-year
old lady in a distant town who lost her husband several years ago and
is trying to keep their coffeehouse going. She brought me a 2-group
Astoria that has been on a filter but is quite caked up with salts and
the right group is totally occluded. Steam and water leaks all over. I
have pulled the tank and it is soaking in citric acid and coming out
so far looking okay. It has a ways to go. I've not done one of these
before. The steam and water nipples all had extensive crusting from
leakage for what must have been years. My question is if you have seen
cracking around the nipple welds on these machines. I would suspect
cracking as a cause of the crust build-up if it were just one
connection. But all the lower nipples were totally crusted which leads
me to think it is just looseness from continual heat/cool cycling.
I'm trying to keep the labor hours to a minimum and just do essential
work as she doesn't plan to keep the place open too long and is
wanting to not spend too much. I'll be doing a lot of pro-bono as it
is. Any thoughts of the best minimal treatment for the machine?
Bernie

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Jun 19, 3:13 pm, bdig...@zianet,com wrote:
> I have one of those semi-charity cases you two do so well. A 73-year
> old lady in a distant town who lost her husband several years ago and
> is trying to keep their coffeehouse going. She brought me a 2-group
> Astoria that has been on a filter but is quite caked up with salts and
> the right group is totally occluded. Steam and water leaks all over. I
> have pulled the tank and it is soaking in citric acid and coming out
> so far looking okay. It has a ways to go. I've not done one of these
> before. The steam and water nipples all had extensive crusting from
> leakage for what must have been years. My question is if you have seen
> cracking around the nipple welds on these machines. I would suspect
> cracking as a cause of the crust build-up if it were just one
> connection. But all the lower nipples were totally crusted which leads
> me to think it is just looseness from continual heat/cool cycling.
> I'm trying to keep the labor hours to a minimum and just do essential
> work as she doesn't plan to keep the place open too long and is
> wanting to not spend too much. I'll be doing a lot of pro-bono as it
> is. Any thoughts of the best minimal  treatment for the machine?
> Bernie

Hey Bernie,
I've got one in my garage just like it I'll get to soon.
Mineral encrustation is really insidious and will work its way out of
the boiler wherever possible. I've seen encrustations the size of
baseballs here in Florida, and it's not all that uncommon. Rarely have
I seen one where the actual fitting was damaged. Just soak them in
your decalcifying agent and tape everything up good on reassembly and
you should be good to go.
That having been said, if you find any of the lines cracked or need
anything, I'm an Astoria agent and I can get you whatever parts you
need at dealer pricing, or I may even have it on hand. Good luck and
let me know if you need anything....al

Re: Pinging al, Barry


"sprsso" <sprsso@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:02187499-8b50-48bb-9b69-abd3c630c152@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups,com ...
On Jun 19, 3:13 pm, bdig...@zianet,com wrote:
<SNIP>Any thoughts of the best minimal treatment for the machine?
> Bernie

Hey Bernie,
<SNIP>
That having been said, if you find any of the lines cracked or need
anything, I'm an Astoria agent and I can get you whatever parts you
need at dealer pricing, or I may even have it on hand. Good luck and
let me know if you need anything....al


That's what this list is all about.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http :// www .homeroaster,com
*********************

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Jun 19, 1:58 pm, sprsso <spr...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> On Jun 19, 3:13 pm, bdig...@zianet,com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have one of those semi-charity cases you two do so well. A 73-year
> > old lady in a distant town who lost her husband several years ago and
> > is trying to keep their coffeehouse going. She brought me a 2-group
> > Astoria that has been on a filter but is quite caked up with salts and
> > the right group is totally occluded. Steam and water leaks all over. I
> > have pulled the tank and it is soaking in citric acid and coming out
> > so far looking okay. It has a ways to go. I've not done one of these
> > before. The steam and water nipples all had extensive crusting from
> > leakage for what must have been years. My question is if you have seen
> > cracking around the nipple welds on these machines. I would suspect
> > cracking as a cause of the crust build-up if it were just one
> > connection. But all the lower nipples were totally crusted which leads
> > me to think it is just looseness from continual heat/cool cycling.
> > I'm trying to keep the labor hours to a minimum and just do essential
> > work as she doesn't plan to keep the place open too long and is
> > wanting to not spend too much. I'll be doing a lot of pro-bono as it
> > is. Any thoughts of the best minimal treatment for the machine?
> > Bernie
>
> Hey Bernie,
> I've got one in my garage just like it I'll get to soon.
> Mineral encrustation is really insidious and will work its way out of
> the boiler wherever possible. I've seen encrustations the size of
> baseballs here in Florida, and it's not all that uncommon. Rarely have
> I seen one where the actual fitting was damaged. Just soak them in
> your decalcifying agent and tape everything up good on reassembly and
> you should be good to go.
> That having been said, if you find any of the lines cracked or need
> anything, I'm an Astoria agent and I can get you whatever parts you
> need at dealer pricing, or I may even have it on hand. Good luck and
> let me know if you need anything....al


Thanks, al. I'll finish up this weekend, I hope, with the
decalcifying and see how things look. I felt the tank wall give a
little when I was taking off a pressure safety valve so I'll be
watching that fitting in addition to the others. I appreciate the
parts offer. Like Ed said.
Bernie

Re: Pinging al, Barry


what ...al said, plus:

I wouldn't worry about pulling absolutely everything off the boiler.
Those mineraled fittings will be just fine after a descaler soak. If
you can, be sure to have a look inside the boiler with a flashlight
afterwards, to be sure there aren't deposits remaining in those
fittings (scale likes to form at transitions). If you're concerned
about hairlines at the fittings, a drop of Loctite 290 ought to seal
them up.

Also, for future reference, have a look at Rydlyme as a descaler. I've
pretty much abandoned Scale-Kleen and citric acid. Rydlyme pentrates
the scale and loosens it from the metal, even on heavy deposits,
making into a scale-sand which can be washed out.

Re: Pinging al, Barry


I think Bernie's got the boiler pulled already, so I'm assuming
everything's been removed. I almost never do this for descaling, but I
will if the boiler needs a muriatic acid bath or if it's full of milk.
I've got some boiler pictures that'll curl your teeth....al


On Jun 20, 1:22 am, Barry Jarrett <ba...@rileys-coffee,com > wrote:
> what ...al said, plus:
>
> I wouldn't worry about pulling absolutely everything off the boiler.
>

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Jun 19, 11:22 pm, Barry Jarrett <ba...@rileys-coffee,com > wrote:
> what ...al said, plus:
> (snip)
>
>
> Also, for future reference, have a look at Rydlyme as a descaler. I've
> pretty much abandoned Scale-Kleen and citric acid. Rydlyme pentrates
> the scale and loosens it from the metal, even on heavy deposits,
> making into a scale-sand which can be washed out.

Thanks, Barry. I've got it pulled apart probably more than I needed.
But it sure is shiny. The little project forced me to go out and buy a
portable 4000CFM swamp cooler for the warehouse work area that is
running hot in this 105F heat. I hope I can get it all back together
by Tuesday or so.
Bernie

.

Re: Pinging al, Barry



"Barry Jarrett" <barry@rileys-coffee,com > wrote in message
news:gkem54dm0j2mnb02hqosv6fdm7uj5b1ipi@4ax,com ...
>
>
> Also, for future reference, have a look at Rydlyme as a descaler. I've
> pretty much abandoned Scale-Kleen and citric acid. Rydlyme pentrates
> the scale and loosens it from the metal, even on heavy deposits,
> making into a scale-sand which can be washed out.
>

Please tell us more about Rydlyme...where do you get it, how much does it
cost, what form does it come in, how long do you need to soak, what is the
mechanism by which it works (since it doesn't appear to be acid) , does it
leave a smell behind, etc?

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Jun 20, 4:19 pm, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape,net > wrote:
> "Barry Jarrett" <ba...@rileys-coffee,com > wrote in message
>
> news:gkem54dm0j2mnb02hqosv6fdm7uj5b1ipi@4ax,com ...
>
>
>
> > Also, for future reference, have a look at Rydlyme as a descaler. I've
> > pretty much abandoned Scale-Kleen and citric acid.  Rydlyme pentrates
> > the scale and loosens it from the metal, even on heavy deposits,
> > making into a scale-sand which can be washed out.
>
> Please tell us more about Rydlyme...where do you get it, how much does it
> cost, what form does it come in, how long do you need to soak, what is the
> mechanism by which it works (since it doesn't appear to be acid) , does it
> leave a smell behind, etc?

Rydlyme has a pretty informative website, everything except for where
it can be purchased.
They do have a contact page.

Shane

Re: Pinging al, Barry

shane writes:
> Rydlyme has a pretty informative website, everything
> except for where it can be purchased.

$30 + shipping for a gallon @ eBay.

> They do have a contact page.

And they publish their MSDS. It's a controversial product ... I think
this competitor's article is interesting (long URL):

http :// www .chemtexcorp,com /docarchive/news/Water%20Treatment%20News 29-
Exploding%20the%20Myth%20of%20Safe%20Scale%20Cleaners.pdf


Felix

Re: Pinging al, Barry

$30 a gal for what appears to be watered down muriatic (hydrochloric) acid
seems a bit steep. I can get a gallon of 31% muriactic acid for maybe $5
and this would be enough to make over 3 gals of a 10% solution. I wonder
what the "secret ingredients" are that make this stuff worth the extra
$28/gallon.



"Felix" <felixyen@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:59dfd6cd-7957-4732-b0ea-2a2f06c2626c@59g2000hsb.googlegroups,com ...
> shane writes:
>> Rydlyme has a pretty informative website, everything
>> except for where it can be purchased.
>
> $30 + shipping for a gallon @ eBay.
>
>> They do have a contact page.
>
> And they publish their MSDS. It's a controversial product ... I think
> this competitor's article is interesting (long URL):
>
> http :// www .chemtexcorp,com /docarchive/news/Water%20Treatment%20News 29-
> Exploding%20the%20Myth%20of%20Safe%20Scale%20Cleaners.pdf
>
>
> Felix

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:07:30 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape,net > wrote:

>$30 a gal for what appears to be watered down muriatic (hydrochloric) acid
>seems a bit steep. I can get a gallon of 31% muriactic acid for maybe $5
>and this would be enough to make over 3 gals of a 10% solution. I wonder
>what the "secret ingredients" are that make this stuff worth the extra
>$28/gallon.
>

$30/gal is a bit steep, considering I only paid $55/5-gal last fall.

The stuff doesn't behave like straight HCl, but I don't know what else
is in there.

For the vast majority of home machine descaling, I don't think the
Rydlyme is worth considering. For serious scaled up commercial
machines, though, it was worth every penny. Overnight, it took care
of scale deposits that had been soaking a week in ScaleKleen. The
novel thing was that on heavy deposits, where ScaleKleen seems to
dissolve layer by layer, the Rydlyme penetrated into the scale and
broke it up into sand and released it from the underlying metal. It
didn't dissolve it all away, but made it so that the scale could be
easily removed by light brushing and rinsing. The only other
descaling method that has been as quick and painless was when I
learned how to descale a steam boiler with a hammer.

Re: Pinging al, Barry

Jack Denver writes:
> $30 a gal for what appears to be watered down
> muriatic (hydrochloric) acid seems a bit steep.
> [...]
> I wonder what the "secret ingredients" are that
> make this stuff worth the extra $28/gallon.

I didn't endorse the product in any way, but its history suggests that
the secret ingredients add value. At least they're safe and
biodegradable :-)

On the other hand, the safety claim seem a bit inflated ...

Here's an interesting alternative:
http :// www .kem-tech,com /images/specs/BROCHURE-SAFE-AR.pdf


Felix

Re: Pinging al, Barry

On Jun 21, 8:49 pm, Felix <felix...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> Jack Denver writes:
> > $30 a gal for what appears to be watered down
> > muriatic (hydrochloric) acid seems a bit steep.
> > [...]
> > I wonder what the "secret ingredients" are that
> > make this stuff worth the extra $28/gallon.
>
> I didn't endorse the product in any way, but its history suggests that
> the secret ingredients add value. At least they're safe and
> biodegradable :-)
>
> On the other hand, the safety claim seem a bit inflated ...
>
> Here's an interesting alternative: http :// www .kem-tech,com /images/specs/BROCHURE-SAFE-AR.pdf
>
> Felix



This afternoon I spent some time pouring "ClogBuster" down the
main line at my warehouse. It has two standpipes uncapped which
overflow with sewage when the main gets stopped up downstream. Dunno
why they built it that way. Anyway, its a convienient place to pour a
gallon of hydrochloric acid and watch it bubble up and smoke while
doing its work. Didn't work. I had to go get a commercial snake from a
friend and it worked within a minute. Anyway, my question is why
anyone would want to use a non-corrosive descaler? What fun is it to
use something that won't sting, burn, blister, blind, choke or
disfigure if used incorrectly? Jeeze. I think Barry and Jack are
trying to put the safety goggle folks out of business. Not to mention
the ER docs.
Bernie (making the Tim Taylor arhuuuugh? sound) D.

Re: Pinging al, Barry

That's funny. Just the thought of Barry erring on the side of safety and
low pyrotechnic effect makes me laugh.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http :// www .homeroaster,com
*********************

<bdigman@zianet,com > wrote in message
news:ea0bd5dc-70fa-4560-9728-60d0585c081d@26g2000hsk.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 21, 8:49 pm, Felix <felix...@hotmail,com > wrote:
>> Jack Denver writes:
>> > $30 a gal for what appears to be watered down
>> > muriatic (hydrochloric) acid seems a bit steep.
>> > [...]
>> > I wonder what the "secret ingredients" are that
>> > make this stuff worth the extra $28/gallon.
>>
>> I didn't endorse the product in any way, but its history suggests that
>> the secret ingredients add value. At least they're safe and
>> biodegradable :-)
>>
>> On the other hand, the safety claim seem a bit inflated ...
>>
>> Here's an interesting
>> alternative: http :// www .kem-tech,com /images/specs/BROCHURE-SAFE-AR.pdf
>>
>> Felix
>
>
>
> This afternoon I spent some time pouring "ClogBuster" down the
> main line at my warehouse. It has two standpipes uncapped which
> overflow with sewage when the main gets stopped up downstream. Dunno
> why they built it that way. Anyway, its a convienient place to pour a
> gallon of hydrochloric acid and watch it bubble up and smoke while
> doing its work. Didn't work. I had to go get a commercial snake from a
> friend and it worked within a minute. Anyway, my question is why
> anyone would want to use a non-corrosive descaler? What fun is it to
> use something that won't sting, burn, blister, blind, choke or
> disfigure if used incorrectly? Jeeze. I think Barry and Jack are
> trying to put the safety goggle folks out of business. Not to mention
> the ER docs.
> Bernie (making the Tim Taylor arhuuuugh? sound) D.