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Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Hey,
A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into a
hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood and
turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the back,
so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body wood at
both ends.
They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink either;
just like the wood reverberates.
Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
and resonant especially in the midrange area.
I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same body
wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based automotive
finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The strat is not
nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to midrange, which I
attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger headstock, but it also
has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny thing is that the
hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that tremolo-resonant
sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go figure. Maybe
because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only exaggerates their
effect.
Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me mainly
the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has similar
tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its sound has much
more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds more like a les
paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and you'd also swear
the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier when playing
driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the only real
difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
Cheers,
Dee
Hey,
A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into a
hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood and
turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the back,
so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body wood at
both ends.
They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink either;
just like the wood reverberates.
Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
and resonant especially in the midrange area.
I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same body
wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based automotive
finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The strat is not
nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to midrange, which I
attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger headstock, but it also
has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny thing is that the
hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that tremolo-resonant
sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go figure. Maybe
because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only exaggerates their
effect.
Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me mainly
the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has similar
tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its sound has much
more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds more like a les
paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and you'd also swear
the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier when playing
driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the only real
difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
Cheers,
Dee
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Keith Adams wrote:
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
>
I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
too. the Walrus Ivory.
So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
Mark
Keith Adams wrote:
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
>
I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
too. the Walrus Ivory.
So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
Mark
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
On 8 touko, 09:29, Mark Bedingfield
<atari...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet . com .au> wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
> > Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount=
of
> > tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> > guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be t=
o
> > hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending f=
rom
> > its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars soun=
d
> > comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far les=
s
> > impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
I think the pickups do have very different sounds, but the thing
is...those changes can be 'overdriven' with simple turns of the knobs.
Like, it's surely true that some pickups have more high end---well
just turn the treble a li'l higher on your amp and you get the exact
same effect. Or adjust the pickup poles.
IMO there are basically only a handful of varieties in pickups,
between which there are enough differences as not to easily overcome
by amp settings---
- singlecoils
- P90 types
- buckers
- actives
=46rom those you just pick a suitable one, and select what level output
power you want, and the rest is pretty much neglible. That said, there
are sometimes indeed huge differences in the overall clarity/amount of
highs in pickups...like I have this humbucker pair which are
incredibly dark and mushy, and a bunch of other buckers quite similar
in power etc. but still completely in the other spectrum, i.e. bright
and piercing.
BUT while the differences really are slim in most cases, I'd
definitely get a quality seymour or something, merely because I know
exactly how it will sound whereas in whatever cheapos it's a luck of
the draw. Might be even better with a 20-buck pickup, but might be
dark as hell too. And I want all my guitars to sound basically the
same, so I don't need to be adjusting my amp when changing axes.
Cheers,
Dee
On 8 touko, 09:29, Mark Bedingfield
<atari...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet . com .au> wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
> > Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount=
of
> > tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> > guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be t=
o
> > hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending f=
rom
> > its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars soun=
d
> > comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far les=
s
> > impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
I think the pickups do have very different sounds, but the thing
is...those changes can be 'overdriven' with simple turns of the knobs.
Like, it's surely true that some pickups have more high end---well
just turn the treble a li'l higher on your amp and you get the exact
same effect. Or adjust the pickup poles.
IMO there are basically only a handful of varieties in pickups,
between which there are enough differences as not to easily overcome
by amp settings---
- singlecoils
- P90 types
- buckers
- actives
=46rom those you just pick a suitable one, and select what level output
power you want, and the rest is pretty much neglible. That said, there
are sometimes indeed huge differences in the overall clarity/amount of
highs in pickups...like I have this humbucker pair which are
incredibly dark and mushy, and a bunch of other buckers quite similar
in power etc. but still completely in the other spectrum, i.e. bright
and piercing.
BUT while the differences really are slim in most cases, I'd
definitely get a quality seymour or something, merely because I know
exactly how it will sound whereas in whatever cheapos it's a luck of
the draw. Might be even better with a 20-buck pickup, but might be
dark as hell too. And I want all my guitars to sound basically the
same, so I don't need to be adjusting my amp when changing axes.
Cheers,
Dee
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
> Mark Bedingfield <atari030@nomorespampleaseoptusnet . com .au> wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
> > Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> > tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> > guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> > hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> > its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> > comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> > impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
> >
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
Mark - I might be splitting tonal hairs here but I've noticed
that on my Strat(s) it really doesn't matter whether the pickup
mounting screw use those rubber spacers or the older style spring tension spacers.
But I really do notice a difference on the bridge pickup of my Telecasters.
Both my dad and our luthier insisted I get rid of the rubber spacers
that were on the Tele bridge pups (2 tele guitars I have) and they installed those big spring
tensioners/spacers on the Tele bridge pups. Now I don't know if it is
my ears playing tricks on me - but I'm pretty sure it did make a difference
and the bridge positions on both the guitars sound a lot better now.
My MIJ Squier Tele already had spring pup mounts and that bridge sounds killer good.
So maybe... ?????
But when the rubbers were changed to springs in the Strats I honestly didn't
notice any difference at all. Exactly the same sound in all positions.
So the springs made no audible difference to me in the Strats.
But anyway, they're in there now for whatever it's worth.
Ok - well at least that's my own experience with this rubbers/springs stuff.
I think it did make an audible difference in the tele bridge pups but
that's obviously open to debate.
> Mark Bedingfield <atari030@nomorespampleaseoptusnet . com .au> wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
> > Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> > tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> > guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> > hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> > its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> > comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> > impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
> >
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
Mark - I might be splitting tonal hairs here but I've noticed
that on my Strat(s) it really doesn't matter whether the pickup
mounting screw use those rubber spacers or the older style spring tension spacers.
But I really do notice a difference on the bridge pickup of my Telecasters.
Both my dad and our luthier insisted I get rid of the rubber spacers
that were on the Tele bridge pups (2 tele guitars I have) and they installed those big spring
tensioners/spacers on the Tele bridge pups. Now I don't know if it is
my ears playing tricks on me - but I'm pretty sure it did make a difference
and the bridge positions on both the guitars sound a lot better now.
My MIJ Squier Tele already had spring pup mounts and that bridge sounds killer good.
So maybe... ?????
But when the rubbers were changed to springs in the Strats I honestly didn't
notice any difference at all. Exactly the same sound in all positions.
So the springs made no audible difference to me in the Strats.
But anyway, they're in there now for whatever it's worth.
Ok - well at least that's my own experience with this rubbers/springs stuff.
I think it did make an audible difference in the tele bridge pups but
that's obviously open to debate.
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Mark Bedingfield wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
>> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the
>> amount of tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the
>> sound of the guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove
>> interesting would be to hook one end of the springs directly to the
>> bridge via posts extending from its base. Your experiment confers to
>> me that an electric guitars sound comes from the sum totals of its
>> parts and that the pickups have far less impact on the sound than
>> people continue to believe.
>>
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
My theory is that trying to make a Strat a one size fits all guitar is
futile. They are pretty close to that as they are. 3 SC's, 5 way switch,
low-output pickups.
ObDisclosure - I own a strat-like object, mahogany body, neck bucker,
middle Deluxe minibucker, bridge Fender replacement hot (but otherwise
vintage). But a Strat is a Strat.
--
Les Cargill
--
Les Cargill
Mark Bedingfield wrote:
> Keith Adams wrote:
>> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the
>> amount of tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the
>> sound of the guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove
>> interesting would be to hook one end of the springs directly to the
>> bridge via posts extending from its base. Your experiment confers to
>> me that an electric guitars sound comes from the sum totals of its
>> parts and that the pickups have far less impact on the sound than
>> people continue to believe.
>>
>
> I figured the springs have a lot to do with the Strat sound. Funny thing
> after my big pickup swap I was surprised at how different they all
> sounded. There was definitely the basic individual pickup
> characteristics. BUT the guitar that was bright before was still bright,
> just tamed a bit more. The Vintage RI Strat STILL sounded like a 50's
> Strat, a bit smoother with the Duncan's tho. The Squier was actually the
> biggest revelation. After putting the over bright 50's into it, it
> didn't curb the darker/warmer sound it had completely (thankfully). It
> balanced out nicely while still having its VERY distinct warm tone.
>
> All the guitars have the same bridges (tho not completely identical)
> same string spacing. CRL/Grigsby 5 way switch, Orange drop caps and CTS
> pots. All have modern tuners, tho two are Kluson clones with higher gear
> ratio's and better stability the other Fender standards. The biggest
> difference - fretboard's, wood type and nut. That's about it.
>
> One other thing the 50's has rubber instead of pickup springs. Tho I
> doubt that would be much of a difference. So I'd say there is definitely
> a pickup influence but if the guitar is bright, its going to be bright
> no matter what. Oddly the bright one is the only one with a bone nut
> too. the Walrus Ivory.
>
> So what have we learned? Stuff all....;-) Its all Voodoo.
>
> Nah, here's what I believe makes a Strat, a Strat. Body shape, pickup
> type (Alnico SC's), tremolo and wiring mostly.
>
> Mark
My theory is that trying to make a Strat a one size fits all guitar is
futile. They are pretty close to that as they are. 3 SC's, 5 way switch,
low-output pickups.
ObDisclosure - I own a strat-like object, mahogany body, neck bucker,
middle Deluxe minibucker, bridge Fender replacement hot (but otherwise
vintage). But a Strat is a Strat.
--
Les Cargill
--
Les Cargill
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
On Wed, 07 May 2008 22:51:05 -0700, Keith Adams wrote:
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
It would help if you had some actual hands-on experience with the things
you spew this kind of bullshit about.
On Wed, 07 May 2008 22:51:05 -0700, Keith Adams wrote:
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount of
> tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending from
> its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars sound
> comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far less
> impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
It would help if you had some actual hands-on experience with the things
you spew this kind of bullshit about.
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
"Keith Adams" <keithadams@socal.rr . com > wrote in message
news:48229559$0$7071$4c368faf@roadrunner . com ...
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount
> of tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending
> from its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars
> sound comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far
> less impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
doesn't this contradict what you say in that a guitar, is a guitar, is a
guitar? i have an old dimarzio strat PUp in the middle position of a home
made tele, it sounds a hell of a lot different to he middle pos pUp on the
strat I have, still a strat sound though.
>
> "DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
> news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>> Hey,
>>
>> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
>> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
>> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
>> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
>> wood at both ends.
>>
>> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
>> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
>> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces
>> off, and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so
>> than a strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge
>> amount of resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going
>> boink either; just like the wood reverberates.
>>
>> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
>> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
>> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>>
>> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
>> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
>> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
>> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
>> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
>> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The
>> funny thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more
>> of that tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real
>> tremolo. Go figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at
>> both ends only exaggerates their effect.
>>
>> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
>> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
>> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
>> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
>> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>>
>> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
>> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much
>> to the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>>
>> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
>> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
>> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
>> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
>> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It
>> sounds more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to
>> mind, and you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much
>> more ballsier when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or
>> something, but the only real difference is the scale and the body shape.
>> Otherwise the woods, construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly
>> the same in both.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dee
>>
>
>
"Keith Adams" <keithadams@socal.rr . com > wrote in message
news:48229559$0$7071$4c368faf@roadrunner . com ...
> Interesting DeeAa. You might try different spring lengths and the amount
> of tension on them. Maybe you'll find that you can shape the sound of the
> guitar to suit your tastes. What could also prove interesting would be to
> hook one end of the springs directly to the bridge via posts extending
> from its base. Your experiment confers to me that an electric guitars
> sound comes from the sum totals of its parts and that the pickups have far
> less impact on the sound than people continue to believe.
doesn't this contradict what you say in that a guitar, is a guitar, is a
guitar? i have an old dimarzio strat PUp in the middle position of a home
made tele, it sounds a hell of a lot different to he middle pos pUp on the
strat I have, still a strat sound though.
>
> "DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
> news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>> Hey,
>>
>> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
>> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
>> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
>> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
>> wood at both ends.
>>
>> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
>> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
>> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces
>> off, and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so
>> than a strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge
>> amount of resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going
>> boink either; just like the wood reverberates.
>>
>> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
>> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
>> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>>
>> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
>> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
>> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
>> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
>> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
>> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The
>> funny thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more
>> of that tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real
>> tremolo. Go figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at
>> both ends only exaggerates their effect.
>>
>> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
>> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
>> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
>> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
>> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>>
>> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
>> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much
>> to the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>>
>> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
>> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
>> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
>> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
>> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It
>> sounds more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to
>> mind, and you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much
>> more ballsier when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or
>> something, but the only real difference is the scale and the body shape.
>> Otherwise the woods, construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly
>> the same in both.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dee
>>
>
>
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
listener of music?
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
listener of music?
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE_THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
Keith Adams wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
I agree. No, not really a major difference at all. That's one reason why
I haven't bothered to run out and get a good stage amp. What I have does
the job. At home I use the VJ tho. Never the Jade.
If you compare different types of guitars its a different kettle of
fish. For example, The Stones "Start me up". I'm struggling to get the
same kind of sound. Can't do it with a Strat, even teh Tele doesn't
sound right. Got me stuffed really.
I can hear differences between my Strats tho. A 5yo won't in most cases
because they haven't spent years listening to different Strats and
wondering how so-and-so does what. Tell ya what, I'll try and record
something tomorrow. 2 different Strats same running gear bar the pups. I
can easily hear a difference between my dark Squier and my bright one
frankenstrat (the 50's is pretty much in the middle). To me there is an
obvious difference.
Mark
Keith Adams wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
I agree. No, not really a major difference at all. That's one reason why
I haven't bothered to run out and get a good stage amp. What I have does
the job. At home I use the VJ tho. Never the Jade.
If you compare different types of guitars its a different kettle of
fish. For example, The Stones "Start me up". I'm struggling to get the
same kind of sound. Can't do it with a Strat, even teh Tele doesn't
sound right. Got me stuffed really.
I can hear differences between my Strats tho. A 5yo won't in most cases
because they haven't spent years listening to different Strats and
wondering how so-and-so does what. Tell ya what, I'll try and record
something tomorrow. 2 different Strats same running gear bar the pups. I
can easily hear a difference between my dark Squier and my bright one
frankenstrat (the 50's is pretty much in the middle). To me there is an
obvious difference.
Mark
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
On Thu, 08 May 2008 01:42:03 -0700, Keith Adams wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
It matters to the player, Idiot. If you're not satisfied with your sound
your mind isn't on your playing and you can't put everything you've got
into it. Of course you don't play guitar so there is no way for you to
understand how those of us who actually play feel about our sound.
On Thu, 08 May 2008 01:42:03 -0700, Keith Adams wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
It matters to the player, Idiot. If you're not satisfied with your sound
your mind isn't on your playing and you can't put everything you've got
into it. Of course you don't play guitar so there is no way for you to
understand how those of us who actually play feel about our sound.
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences=
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is suppose=
d
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drille=
d
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guita=
rs
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a=
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one w=
ho
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they =
were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
>
You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
Cheers,
Dee
On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences=
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is suppose=
d
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drille=
d
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guita=
rs
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a=
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one w=
ho
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they =
were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
>
You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
Cheers,
Dee
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
DeeAa wrote:
> On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
>> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
>> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
>> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
>> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
>> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
>> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
>> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
>> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
>> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
>> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
>> listener of music?
>>
> You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
> average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
> sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
>
> But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
> twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
> jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
> is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
> would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
> different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
> makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
> strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
> while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
> respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
>
> It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
> a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
> it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
> looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
> shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
Well put. I agree 100%. :-) mvm
DeeAa wrote:
> On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
>> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
>> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
>> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is supposed
>> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions drilled
>> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric guitars
>> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
>> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one who
>> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they were
>> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
>> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
>> listener of music?
>>
> You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
> average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
> sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
>
> But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
> twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
> jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
> is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
> would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
> different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
> makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
> strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
> while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
> respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
>
> It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
> a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
> it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
> looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
> shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
Well put. I agree 100%. :-) mvm
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
"DeeAa" <deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:d931fa49-cf99-45e8-b653-e6bab5204c0c@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is
> supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions
> drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric
> guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one
> who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they
> were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
>
You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
---
there's a big difference between chrome yellow and lemon yellow and it
effects the oranges you get when mixed with different reds, or brighter
yellows when mixed with white. music or art, it's all about tone.
"DeeAa" <deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:d931fa49-cf99-45e8-b653-e6bab5204c0c@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
On 8 touko, 11:42, "Keith Adams" <keithad...@socal.rr . com > wrote:
> You guys deal in hair splitting differences which to me are no differences
> at all.. Say for instance you took a 5 year old child with good sharp
> hearing. They have no pre drawn conclusions as to how something is
> supposed
> to sound and havent had manufacturer hype or other peoples opinions
> drilled
> into their heads for years. Play for them various different electric
> guitars
> with whatever pickups might be in them and then ask them if they noticed a
> marked difference in sound between the guitars. This child should be one
> who
> hasnt been exposed to their old mans ideas on guitar sounds since they
> were
> born. I'm not saying that you fellers dont know what you're hearing. What
> I'm asking is it really enough of a difference to matter to the average
> listener of music?
>
You're right in that, Keith - I don't think it matters at all to the
average listener. I bet 90% of people won't give a rat's ass what the
sound is like, or if there is a difference or not.
But to the player it is all the world. All I need is to have someone
twist my gain or treble knob some without telling me, and I'll be
jumping on the wall with what's wrong with the sound. To a player it
is all the world. If I played just plain clean, or just one sound, I
would not mind. But I might use 5 different sounds - just minutely
different changes in volume pedal etc. settings within a song, and it
makes a helluva difference. I can't play my current songs with my
strat for instance, simply because I've done the sounds on EMG's and
while a listener might not notice a difference, I would not get it to
respond at all the same when playing with weaker pups.
It's like...a kid might not hear a difference between a V8 and a V6 or
a boxer or inline 6 sound, but to a mechanic and probably the driver
it's the most important thing. A painter might spend his whole life
looking for just the right yellow while to 99% of audience would just
shake their heads and say what, well it's yellow, what about it.
---
there's a big difference between chrome yellow and lemon yellow and it
effects the oranges you get when mixed with different reds, or brighter
yellows when mixed with white. music or art, it's all about tone.
Re: Strat springs test...observations of electric's sounds
I always liked the sound of my old Strat w/back cavity cover *off*, trem
blocked for down action only, and 3 springs.
Peace,
Polfus
( yes..I sure as mofo hell *did* do experiments and am damn proud of
it..makes a difference in tone and let no one ever tell you different ).
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
I always liked the sound of my old Strat w/back cavity cover *off*, trem
blocked for down action only, and 3 springs.
Peace,
Polfus
( yes..I sure as mofo hell *did* do experiments and am damn proud of
it..makes a difference in tone and let no one ever tell you different ).
"DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:482130d1$0$23850$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
> Hey,
>
> A while back I posted about this test where I put strat trem springs into
> a hardtail... . it used to have a trem, and the hole was filled with wood
> and turned into a hardtail...but there was the shallow cavity left in the
> back, so I screwed some strat springs in there, just bolted to the body
> wood at both ends.
>
> They do make a big difference in the acoustic sound and the feel of the
> instrument. It (Davette) is a very light guitar with a tiltneck, and now
> that it has springs, the body sound is quite audible even a few paces off,
> and it's got that strat type 'twang' to the sound, and even more so than a
> strat. If you play it with ear against the wood, there's a huge amount of
> resonances going on there. It doesn't sound like springs going boink
> either; just like the wood reverberates.
>
> Since the guitar is extremely light, and has a pretty thin and V-shaped
> Jackson type neck w/angled and very small headstock, it's very responsive
> and resonant especially in the midrange area.
>
> I also have this strat that I've made smaller than original, with same
> body wood and exactly the same finishes (no thick paints, water-based
> automotive finish) and it's really interesting to compare the two. The
> strat is not nearly as resonant, and much more scooped when it comes to
> midrange, which I attribute to the sturdier neck and straight, bigger
> headstock, but it also has a pickguard which may dampen it some. The funny
> thing is that the hardtail with the trem springs now exhibits more of that
> tremolo-resonant sound and 'vibe' than the strat with a real tremolo. Go
> figure. Maybe because the springs are attached to wood at both ends only
> exaggerates their effect.
>
> Next phase - I realized that the necks on these two are interchangeable
> since both are standard strat necks when it comes to dimensions - so I'll
> swap the heavier traditional neck to the extralight 'davette' and try the
> light angled neck in the strat. I have a hunch that will equalize the
> differences and the 2 guitars will sound very similar then.
>
> I have to make some proper amplified tests as well, will report on those
> later, but already it seems the springs do contribute surprisingly much to
> the sound. We'll see how it is amplified.
>
> Still sort of stumped however how come the Flying V copy can sound so
> different from my other axes w/same pickups...I suppose it has to me
> mainly the Gibson scale it uses. It weighs the same as Davette, has
> similar tiltneck/angled headstock structure and same pickups, but its
> sound has much more balls in the lower midrange for some reason. It sounds
> more like a les paul, whereas the davette would bring an SG to mind, and
> you'd also swear the V has stronger pickups.. . it 's that much more ballsier
> when playing driven guitar. Like there is more gain or something, but the
> only real difference is the scale and the body shape. Otherwise the woods,
> construction, pickups, even the paint job is exactly the same in both.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
