Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

I have a Fender Strat w/locking tuners that is NOT staying in tune.

I have changed the strings several times on the guitar and I'm sure I
have the locks set up correctly.

Should I be wrapping the strings a few times around the tune trees
even though it has locks?

Any suggestions on a remedy?

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Ludwig77 <gregjgman@gmail . com > wrote:
> I have a Fender Strat w/locking tuners that is NOT staying in tune.
>
> I have changed the strings several times on the guitar and I'm sure I
> have the locks set up correctly.
>
> Should I be wrapping the strings a few times around the tune trees
> even though it has locks?
>
> Any suggestions on a remedy?

Does it always go flat, or does it go sharp sometimes?

If both, your nut slots may be binding the strings.
Does it have a whammy? If so, that may be the source of the problem.

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On 08 May 2008, Ludwig77 <gregjgman@gmail . com > wrote in alt.guitar:

> Should I be wrapping the strings a few times around the tune trees
> even though it has locks?

No. Try to have as little string as possible winding around the pegs.
Make sure your nut is lubricated and the vibrato bridge isn't binding.

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Ludwig77 wrote:
> I have a Fender Strat w/locking tuners that is NOT staying in tune.
>
> I have changed the strings several times on the guitar and I'm sure I
> have the locks set up correctly.
>
> Should I be wrapping the strings a few times around the tune trees
> even though it has locks?
>
> Any suggestions on a remedy?

Just how often have you changed the strings, and how long have you used
them before you've changed them? They'll need to take a set and
stabilize first...you'll need to "bend them in" as I like to call it,
before they'll hold - that's one reason I prefer "middle aged" strings
even on hard tailed guitars. You could be chasing yourself.

I'm pretty sure the locking tuners don't do much for keeping the guitar
in tune...if so, I can't see how. It seems to me they just make string
changes easier...if I'm thinking of the same type you have - I'm
thinking of the ones like on a Deluxe Strat, and not a nut lock like
with a Rose trem.

--
- Rufus

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

I was wondering about the number of wraps too. I just installed some on my
Strat. First time I have ever used them. I did put some wraps because the A
D & G strings are not being pulled down far enough. I am going to install
another retainer of some sort for the D & G but the A is going to be a
little more difficult to fix.
I also saw a full bar I think on the All Parts site. This might be a better
fix because it will pull all the strings down. But it would also mean some
more drastic holes. Not sure if I want to do this to a '59
Strat....HAHAAHAHAHA, Yeah, as if :-)

SotR

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On Thu, 8 May 2008 18:42:31 -0700, "SotR" <flippy@ssm . com > did
courageously avow:

>I was wondering about the number of wraps too. I just installed some on my
>Strat. First time I have ever used them. I did put some wraps because the A
>D & G strings are not being pulled down far enough.

Did you install the tuners correctly? They are staggered 3 long and 3
short. The short ones go at the far end of the headstock. This
eliminates the need for the string tree.

> I am going to install
>another retainer of some sort for the D & G but the A is going to be a
>little more difficult to fix.
> I also saw a full bar I think on the All Parts site. This might be a better
>fix because it will pull all the strings down. But it would also mean some
>more drastic holes. Not sure if I want to do this to a '59
>Strat....HAHAAHAHAHA, Yeah, as if :-)
>
>SotR
>

--
Ken Wilson

Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s,
Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Gibson CS-336,
Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa Lone Star Special,
Mesa F-30, Victoria 5112

"Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On 08 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:

> I'm pretty sure the locking tuners don't do much for keeping the
> guitar in tune...if so, I can't see how.

But they do. I have a Tele-like parts guitar with locking Sperzels. The
thing really wouldn't stay in tune very well until I took the advice I
gave above, to keep string windings on the peg to a bare minimum. That
was the secret ingredient - now it stays in tune beautifully. With non-
locking tuners you need the windings. Locking tuners let you minimize
the windings and improve tuning stability.

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Nil wrote:
> On 08 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:
>
>> I'm pretty sure the locking tuners don't do much for keeping the
>> guitar in tune...if so, I can't see how.
>
> But they do. I have a Tele-like parts guitar with locking Sperzels. The
> thing really wouldn't stay in tune very well until I took the advice I
> gave above, to keep string windings on the peg to a bare minimum. That
> was the secret ingredient - now it stays in tune beautifully. With non-
> locking tuners you need the windings. Locking tuners let you minimize
> the windings and improve tuning stability.

Interesting...I'd have thought the windings would have nothing to do
with it, other than stop the strings from slipping. Once over the nut
(or zero fret) a length of string is a length of string. Unless the
windings can stretch, too...

Other than preventing slippage I can't see any reason why they'd be any
better or worse than any other windlass type tuner, other than that
maybe the tolerances on their gears is better.

--
- Rufus

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On 08 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:

> Interesting...I'd have thought the windings would have nothing to
> do with it, other than stop the strings from slipping.

I didn't used to think it wasn't important, either. I have another
guitar with Sperzels, a Strat Plus, with a roller nut and floating
vibrato bridge. It used to be reasonably good at staying in tune, but
not perfect. I used to consider that to be the price to be paid for
using the vibrato. But after I started the minimal-winding trick, it is
much MUCH more stable than it was. I wished I had realized it when I
got the guitar 20 years ago.

So, that's my two positive personal experiences. I'm convinced.

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On 9 touko, 07:46, Nil <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast . net > wrote:
> On 08 May 2008, Rufus <n...@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:
>
> > Interesting...I'd have thought the windings would have nothing to
> > do with it, other than stop the strings from slipping.
>
> I didn't used to think it wasn't important, either. I have another
> guitar with Sperzels, a Strat Plus, with a roller nut and floating
> vibrato bridge. It used to be reasonably good at staying in tune, but
> not perfect. I used to consider that to be the price to be paid for
> using the vibrato. But after I started the minimal-winding trick, it is
> muc

h MUCH more stable than it was. I wished I had realized it when I
> got the guitar 20 years ago.
>
> So, that's my two positive personal experiences. I'm convinced.

Always best to have minimal windings there. I always cut the string
3/4 inch past where it would just reach the peg, put it in the hole so
it just sticks out, wind the post so that the string goes round and
presses down on the stub there. It's just enough lenght for it to
start on the 2nd round, at which time I guide it to go under, and end
up with abou 1,5 turns on the post. A good yank or two to stretch it
tight against the post and not much tuning needed after that any more.

Cheers,

Dee

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Nil wrote:
> On 08 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:
>
>> Interesting...I'd have thought the windings would have nothing to
>> do with it, other than stop the strings from slipping.
>
> I didn't used to think it wasn't important, either. I have another
> guitar with Sperzels, a Strat Plus, with a roller nut and floating
> vibrato bridge. It used to be reasonably good at staying in tune, but
> not perfect. I used to consider that to be the price to be paid for
> using the vibrato. But after I started the minimal-winding trick, it is
> much MUCH more stable than it was. I wished I had realized it when I
> got the guitar 20 years ago.
>
> So, that's my two positive personal experiences. I'm convinced.

I'm certainly a believer in the roller nut - but now I'm wondering if
the windings around the tuner posts actually stretch...I tend to let the
windings pile up a bit when I restring, but now I'm curious about what
will happen if I try to minimize them with ANY tuner...

--
- Rufus

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On 11 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:

> I'm certainly a believer in the roller nut - but now I'm wondering
> if the windings around the tuner posts actually stretch...I tend
> to let the windings pile up a bit when I restring, but now I'm
> curious about what will happen if I try to minimize them with ANY
> tuner...

I used to thing that the more windings, the better, that the stress
would be more evenly distributed by multiple windings. And, maybe
that's true as far as breakage goes. But now, I'm thinking there's some
friction between the adjacent coils of wire, and the string catches on
itself a bit and suddenly releases when tension varies during playing.
Kind of like an earthquake fault. Probably the string stretches as it
ages, too, which would contribute more of the same effect.

Non-locking tuners need a full turn of winding to hold the string on.
The locking tuners don't even need that, so if you install the strings
carefully, you can have even less winding to cause problems.

I also used to wind the string around the post a lot to bring the
string closer to the headstock, figuring it would improve the coupling
between the string and nut. Most locking tuners for Fender-type necks
are also graduated to do the same thing, so you get that good effect
without the problems extra windings might create.

Locking tuners aren't a cure-all for tuning problems, but they
definitely help. And they make string changes faster, too (well, my
Sperzel's do, but my PRS locking tuners are much more fiddly.)

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

Nil wrote:
> On 11 May 2008, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote in alt.guitar:
>
>> I'm certainly a believer in the roller nut - but now I'm wondering
>> if the windings around the tuner posts actually stretch...I tend
>> to let the windings pile up a bit when I restring, but now I'm
>> curious about what will happen if I try to minimize them with ANY
>> tuner...
>
> I used to thing that the more windings, the better, that the stress
> would be more evenly distributed by multiple windings. And, maybe
> that's true as far as breakage goes. But now, I'm thinking there's some
> friction between the adjacent coils of wire, and the string catches on
> itself a bit and suddenly releases when tension varies during playing.
> Kind of like an earthquake fault. Probably the string stretches as it
> ages, too, which would contribute more of the same effect.
>
> Non-locking tuners need a full turn of winding to hold the string on.
> The locking tuners don't even need that, so if you install the strings
> carefully, you can have even less winding to cause problems.
>
> I also used to wind the string around the post a lot to bring the
> string closer to the headstock, figuring it would improve the coupling
> between the string and nut. Most locking tuners for Fender-type necks
> are also graduated to do the same thing, so you get that good effect
> without the problems extra windings might create.
>
> Locking tuners aren't a cure-all for tuning problems, but they
> definitely help. And they make string changes faster, too (well, my
> Sperzel's do, but my PRS locking tuners are much more fiddly.)

I've always built up the windings simply to prevent slippage, but now
I'm starting to think like you're saying...I've probably just been
fooling myself all these years.

I was at GC yesterday watching a tech setting up a Fender P-bass and
noticed that the bass tuners on it (and on my Carvin LB-70, now that
I've just checked) have a hole in the center that you can slip the end
of the string into before you start winding - this makes it easier to
anchor the string and also allows you to use less windings. Very
simple, and I sort of wonder why guitar tuners aren't slotted and
drilled so you could do this...I've probably seen ones that are and just
not realized it like with/until my recent encounter.

My LB-70 didn't come from the factory wound this way (I've yet to
restring it) but I'll do this and minimize the windings when I put a set
of lighter strings on it.

--
- Rufus

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:18:58 GMT, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote:


> I sort of wonder why guitar tuners aren't slotted and
>drilled so you could do this..


Is this a joke??

If not - how many guitars have you actually looked at?

Re: Fender Strat w/locking tuners NOT staying in tune.

PickrHead wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:18:58 GMT, Rufus <not@home . com > wrote:
>
>
>> I sort of wonder why guitar tuners aren't slotted and
>> drilled so you could do this..
>
>
> Is this a joke??
>
> If not - how many guitars have you actually looked at?

Tons...I just don't recall ever noticing one way or the other...

None of the Gibson (including my double neck), Fender, Dan Armstrong
(Ampeg), Dan Electro, or Charvel acoustic axes I own have
slotted/drilled tuners - only my Carvin bass, and as I've said, I've
never re-strung my bass so I've never stopped to notice it either until now.

None of the guitars I've been considering buying recently (like Doozys)
have tuners like that either - just straight through winding holes.

--
- Rufus