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For how long do you guys play for free?
For how long do you guys play for free?
Well,
As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
we play, and for what costs.
We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
Still, we need to pay for the traveling costs, gas, spend the night in a
motel at our own costs, so it'll be expensive for us to throw that gig.
Money that I don't have just now as I'm still in debt for the Ceriatone head
etc.
I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
that respect. What a dilemma.
So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
issues?
Cheers,
Dee
Well,
As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
we play, and for what costs.
We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
Still, we need to pay for the traveling costs, gas, spend the night in a
motel at our own costs, so it'll be expensive for us to throw that gig.
Money that I don't have just now as I'm still in debt for the Ceriatone head
etc.
I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
that respect. What a dilemma.
So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
issues?
Cheers,
Dee
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
DeeAa wrote:
> Well,
>
<snip>
>
> I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
> days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
> dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
> Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
> get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
> is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
> so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
> other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
> from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
> offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
>
Cheez. That's a pretty heavy band-density.
> And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
> 3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
> I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
> gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
> don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
> start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
>
Depends on the gig.
> But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
> place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
> that respect. What a dilemma.
>
Do you play covers as well? Normal gigging can be a drain, if that's not
your end goal.
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
>
One band won a radio contest, parlayed that into a management contract.
Another took third at a Marlboro Country Music contest back in the early
'80s, parlayed that into ... not very much at all. Got a TV interview
and some radio time out of it.
I dunno. I'm not a promotions guy, but you has you a promotions problem
on your hands. People use Myspace a lot. Dunno if it does any
good or not.
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
>
--
Les Cargill
DeeAa wrote:
> Well,
>
<snip>
>
> I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
> days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
> dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
> Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
> get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
> is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
> so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
> other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
> from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
> offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
>
Cheez. That's a pretty heavy band-density.
> And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
> 3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
> I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
> gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
> don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
> start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
>
Depends on the gig.
> But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
> place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
> that respect. What a dilemma.
>
Do you play covers as well? Normal gigging can be a drain, if that's not
your end goal.
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
>
One band won a radio contest, parlayed that into a management contract.
Another took third at a Marlboro Country Music contest back in the early
'80s, parlayed that into ... not very much at all. Got a TV interview
and some radio time out of it.
I dunno. I'm not a promotions guy, but you has you a promotions problem
on your hands. People use Myspace a lot. Dunno if it does any
good or not.
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
>
--
Les Cargill
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
> DeeAa <deeaaREMOVE THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote:
> Well,
>
> As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
> to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
> we play, and for what costs.
>
> We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
> 300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
> a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
>
> Still, we need to pay for the traveling costs, gas, spend the night in a
> motel at our own costs, so it'll be expensive for us to throw that gig.
> Money that I don't have just now as I'm still in debt for the Ceriatone head
> etc.
>
> I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
> days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
> dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
> Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
> get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
> is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
> so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
> other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
> from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
> offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
>
> And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
> 3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
> I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
> gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
> don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
> start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
>
> But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
> place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
> that respect. What a dilemma.
>
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
>
Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere you go.
Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play).
You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.
> DeeAa <deeaaREMOVE THIS@dnainternet . net > wrote:
> Well,
>
> As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
> to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
> we play, and for what costs.
>
> We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
> 300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
> a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
>
> Still, we need to pay for the traveling costs, gas, spend the night in a
> motel at our own costs, so it'll be expensive for us to throw that gig.
> Money that I don't have just now as I'm still in debt for the Ceriatone head
> etc.
>
> I wouldn't want to throw too many gigs for free, but the way it seems these
> days, playing original music, it seems you'll soon have to fork up some
> dough to get a chance to play at a bar or someplace where there is people.
> Hell, whenever there is a local battle of bands contest or something, they
> get like a three-figure number of bands wanting to get in...even though this
> is a town of under 100.000 inhabitants...but anyway, there are so many and
> so good bands around, nobody pays nothing. And with what seems like every
> other goddamn topten foreign band like 30sec to mars etc. plus old greats
> from maiden to priest etc. is touring here now or soon, there's so much
> offering anyway there's little need for more bands playing live.
>
> And furthermore, if they pay you, then they typically also require like
> 3x45min sets, which is way too much. I never ever want to do this for work,
> I don't even like gigging that much. But the other guys are anxious to get
> gigs, so we have a few more lined up that will cost us money already. I
> don't much like that. I'd rather just make recordings and new songs and only
> start gigging when we get offers and paid at least expenses.
>
> But...that gets a band nowhere fast, just staying at the rehearsal
> place...you need to get noticed at least some, so gigs would be excellent in
> that respect. What a dilemma.
>
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
>
Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere you go.
Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play).
You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere y=
ou go.
> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play)=
.
> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe ma=
ke
> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably=
> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilot=
a siteerattu teksti -
>
> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
would sell the CD's and when.
If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
venues with big bands.
But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
anymore after all :-)
Cheers,
Dee
On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere y=
ou go.
> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play)=
.
> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe ma=
ke
> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably=
> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilot=
a siteerattu teksti -
>
> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
would sell the CD's and when.
If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
venues with big bands.
But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
anymore after all :-)
Cheers,
Dee
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
"DeeAa" <deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere
> you go.
> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
> play).
> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota
> siteerattu teksti -
>
> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
would sell the CD's and when.
If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
venues with big bands.
But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
anymore after all :-)
Cheers,
Dee
You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties I
was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James
Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatage
to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually
have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fund
the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for the
last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for what
you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres no
guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "real
money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own label
(Fugazi) or make it really really big.
You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if
you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are also
online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major search
engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free
* w w w .dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
site for nothing.
Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
the original thing.
"DeeAa" <deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere
> you go.
> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
> play).
> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota
> siteerattu teksti -
>
> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
would sell the CD's and when.
If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
venues with big bands.
But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
anymore after all :-)
Cheers,
Dee
You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties I
was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James
Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatage
to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually
have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fund
the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for the
last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for what
you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres no
guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "real
money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own label
(Fugazi) or make it really really big.
You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if
you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are also
online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major search
engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free
* w w w .dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
site for nothing.
Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
the original thing.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On 15 touko, 14:53, "Monster Zero" <some...@somewhere . com > wrote:
> "DeeAa" <de...@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
>
> news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> > can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere=
> > you go.
> > Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> > and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
> > play).
> > You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD'=
s
> > that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe mak=
e
> > back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonab=
ly
> > priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> > Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota=
> > siteerattu teksti -
>
> > - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>
> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> would sell the CD's and when.
>
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> venues with big bands.
>
> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> anymore after all :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
> You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
> merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties=
I
> was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
> happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
> signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
> cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
> hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James=
> Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
> like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatag=
e
> to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
>
> I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
> weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
> playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
> actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually=
> have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fu=
nd
> the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
> acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
> original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
> but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for t=
he
> last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
> because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
> it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for wha=
t
> you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
> patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres n=
o
> guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "rea=
l
> money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
> most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own lab=
el
> (Fugazi) or make it really really big.
>
> You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if=
> you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are al=
so
> online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
>
> If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major sear=
ch
> engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free * w w w =
.dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
> site for nothing.
>
> Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
> the original thing.
No worries. Twas very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Dee
On 15 touko, 14:53, "Monster Zero" <some...@somewhere . com > wrote:
> "DeeAa" <de...@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
>
> news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> > can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere=
> > you go.
> > Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> > and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
> > play).
> > You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD'=
s
> > that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe mak=
e
> > back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonab=
ly
> > priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> > Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota=
> > siteerattu teksti -
>
> > - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>
> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> would sell the CD's and when.
>
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> venues with big bands.
>
> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> anymore after all :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
>
> You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
> merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties=
I
> was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
> happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
> signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
> cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
> hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James=
> Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
> like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatag=
e
> to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
>
> I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
> weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
> playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
> actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually=
> have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fu=
nd
> the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
> acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
> original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
> but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for t=
he
> last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
> because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
> it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for wha=
t
> you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
> patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres n=
o
> guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "rea=
l
> money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
> most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own lab=
el
> (Fugazi) or make it really really big.
>
> You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if=
> you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are al=
so
> online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
>
> If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major sear=
ch
> engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free * w w w =
.dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
> site for nothing.
>
> Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
> the original thing.
No worries. Twas very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Dee
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On Thu, 15 May 2008 05:42:28 -0700 (PDT), DeeAa
<deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote:
>On 15 touko, 14:53, "Monster Zero" <some...@somewhere . com > wrote:
>> "DeeAa" <de...@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
>>
>> news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
>> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
>> > can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere
>> > you go.
>> > Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
>> > and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
>> > play).
>> > You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
>> > that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
>> > back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
>> > priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>>
>> > Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota
>> > siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> > - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
>> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
>> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
>> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
>> would sell the CD's and when.
>>
>> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
>> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
>> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
>> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
>> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>>
>> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
>> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
>> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
>> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
>> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>>
>> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
>> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
>> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
>> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
>> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
>> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
>> venues with big bands.
>>
>> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
>> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
>> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
>> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
>> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
>> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>>
>> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
>> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
>> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
>> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
>> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
>> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
>> anymore after all :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dee
>>
>> You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
>> merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties I
>> was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
>> happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
>> signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
>> cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
>> hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James
>> Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
>> like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatage
>> to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
>>
>> I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
>> weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
>> playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
>> actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually
>> have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fund
>> the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
>> acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
>> original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
>> but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for the
>> last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
>> because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
>> it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for what
>> you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
>> patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres no
>> guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "real
>> money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
>> most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own label
>> (Fugazi) or make it really really big.
>>
>> You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if
>> you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are also
>> online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
>>
>> If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major search
>> engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free * w w w .dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
>> site for nothing.
>>
>> Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
>> the original thing.
>
>No worries. Twas very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dee
Yeah, it was interesting. Your predicament is exactly why I'm content
to keep it in the garage. It's tough out there!!
BTW, congrats on beating the 'mericans.
* tinyurl . com /5x9rt2
I had the good fortune of attending several games including Canada vs.
Finland. Maybe we'll meet again in the finals ;-)
tony
On Thu, 15 May 2008 05:42:28 -0700 (PDT), DeeAa
<deeaa@dnainternet . net > wrote:
>On 15 touko, 14:53, "Monster Zero" <some...@somewhere . com > wrote:
>> "DeeAa" <de...@dnainternet . net > wrote in message
>>
>> news:6389b683-a991-4d8c-80b7-eb3269dbf908@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
>> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
>> > can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere
>> > you go.
>> > Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
>> > and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you
>> > play).
>> > You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
>> > that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
>> > back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
>> > priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>>
>> > Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota
>> > siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> > - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
>> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
>> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
>> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
>> would sell the CD's and when.
>>
>> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
>> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
>> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
>> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
>> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>>
>> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
>> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
>> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
>> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
>> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>>
>> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
>> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
>> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
>> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
>> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
>> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
>> venues with big bands.
>>
>> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
>> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
>> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
>> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
>> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
>> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>>
>> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
>> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
>> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
>> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
>> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
>> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
>> anymore after all :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dee
>>
>> You must have a friend or two that could go with you to peddle your
>> merchandise for you at the shows. Back in the late eighties/early nineties I
>> was in an original death metal act and when the Death Metal explosion
>> happened in Florida back then we moved to Tampa to see if we could get
>> signed.. Well we ultimately did get a disty deal but never saw a dime of
>> cash (which we understood anyways) from the label. I had a lot of fun and
>> hung out with some interesting people like Chuck Schuldiner (Death), James
>> Murphy(Obituary), Glenn Benton(Deicide), and got to play a few big shows
>> like the Tampa Bay Metal Awards. Opened for bands that ranged from Savatage
>> to Napalm Death and Morbid Angel but enough horn tooting.
>>
>> I got into doing covers oh about 15 years ago or so and although it was a
>> weird transition for me because I had only been in original bands and my
>> playing style was play brutal or play nothing but it was so refrshing to
>> actually get paid for gigs. Some of the original acts around here actually
>> have a whole other "covers" band that performs fairly regularly to help fund
>> the original stuff. You see it's the same everywhere ya go for original
>> acts..PAY TO PLAY. Myself, I use my studio as my outlet to still write
>> original material, it's a far cry from the super heavy stuff I used to do
>> but it's satisfying enough. I have made probably an extra 10k a year for the
>> last dozen years or so doing the cover band thing and it's a huge plus
>> because not only do we get to play in front of people but we get paid for
>> it. So I guess my point is this.. if you want to actually get paid for what
>> you are doing then you have to do covers, unless of course you have the
>> patience and are good enough to get signed and tour but even then theres no
>> guarantee. I think I read once that Pearl Jam didn't actually see any "real
>> money" until their second or third album.. could be bullshit I dunno but
>> most bands don't see any real money unless they either start their own label
>> (Fugazi) or make it really really big.
>>
>> You have to get very creative with selling CD's shirts, stickers, et al if
>> you want to recoup that cash you are spending to go and play. There are also
>> online sites that let you sell your music for a percentage of your sales.
>>
>> If your band has a web site and havent yet submitted to all the major search
>> engines or cant afford to..heres a great way to do that for free * w w w .dmoz.org/ (not a spam) this is an awesome way to submit your
>> site for nothing.
>>
>> Well sorry I rambled on but just wanted share some of my experiences with
>> the original thing.
>
>No worries. Twas very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dee
Yeah, it was interesting. Your predicament is exactly why I'm content
to keep it in the garage. It's tough out there!!
BTW, congrats on beating the 'mericans.
* tinyurl . com /5x9rt2
I had the good fortune of attending several games including Canada vs.
Finland. Maybe we'll meet again in the finals ;-)
tony
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
DeeAa wrote:
> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
>> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
>> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere you go.
>> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
>> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play).
>> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
>> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
>> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
>> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>>
>> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>
> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> would sell the CD's and when.
>
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> venues with big bands.
>
> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> anymore after all :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
You mature and reach the point of honest self-reflection (as your post
reveals you to be doing)and realize that bands and the entire lifestyle
are for kids.
It's a painful arrival, but no different than than that which the
athlete eventually reaches.
That doesn't mean stop playing, it means, smile and grow up. There are
now many technological alternatives and the CD will be dead relatively
soon anyway.
Life. mvm 51
* tinyurl . com /32j32m
DeeAa wrote:
> On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
>> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
>> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywhere you go.
>> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
>> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you play).
>> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD's
>> that you could sell wherever you play. At least it is a way to maybe make
>> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasonably
>> priced CD of your band. Well - that's the hope anyways.
>>
>> Just a thought. Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- Piilota siteerattu teksti -
>>
>> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
>
> Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> would sell the CD's and when.
>
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> venues with big bands.
>
> But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> anymore after all :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
You mature and reach the point of honest self-reflection (as your post
reveals you to be doing)and realize that bands and the entire lifestyle
are for kids.
It's a painful arrival, but no different than than that which the
athlete eventually reaches.
That doesn't mean stop playing, it means, smile and grow up. There are
now many technological alternatives and the CD will be dead relatively
soon anyway.
Life. mvm 51
* tinyurl . com /32j32m
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On May 15, 9:45=C2=A0am, =E9=81=93 <Us...@nospam . net > wrote:
> DeeAa wrote:
> > On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> >> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> >> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywher=
e you go.
> >> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> >> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you pl=
ay).
> >> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD=
's
> >> that you could sell wherever you play. =C2=A0At least it is a way to ma=
ybe make
> >> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasona=
bly
> >> priced CD of your band. =C2=A0Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> >> Just a thought. =C2=A0Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- =
Piilota siteerattu teksti -
>
> >> - N=C3=A4yt=C3=A4 siteerattu teksti -
>
> > Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> > certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> > at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> > at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> > would sell the CD's and when.
>
> > If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> > spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> > exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> > it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> > and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> > I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> > numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> > must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> > I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> > dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> > Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> > bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> > and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> > for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> > network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> > make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> > venues with big bands.
>
> > But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> > gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> > them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> > energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> > looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> > strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> > That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> > people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> > cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> > after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> > around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> > onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> > anymore after all :-)
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Dee
>
> You mature and reach the point of honest self-reflection (as your post
> reveals you to be doing)and realize that bands and the entire lifestyle
> are for kids.
>
> It's a painful arrival, but no different than than that which the
> athlete eventually reaches.
>
> That doesn't mean stop playing, it means, smile and grow up. There are
> now many technological alternatives and the CD will be dead relatively
> soon anyway.
>
> Life. mvm 51
>
> * tinyurl . com /32j32m- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm no big fan of CD quality sound, but MP3 quality sounds is
essentially atrocious. I guess typical pop sclock is OK on MP3, as the
sound is irrelevant anyways, but what % of the total music market is
pop schlock these days anyways? The market is so "fragmented"...ie
people actually have and express individual tastes, that no one form
can force anything in any event. While it is easy to downlaod,
assuming you don't mind the scumware on your computer, it's also easy
to make CDs....with no scumware!
The only real good way to make money in music is to have some sort of
sound people want to hear and get good money for the gigs. You're
certainly not going to make much selling CDs or downloads, that's for
sure! I don't know if I'd bother with it if I had something people
wanted to hear.
On May 15, 9:45=C2=A0am, =E9=81=93 <Us...@nospam . net > wrote:
> DeeAa wrote:
> > On 15 touko, 07:28, Squier <squ...@strats . net > wrote:
>
> >> Dee - I have little experience in these matters - but maybe you
> >> can recoup some of the costs by selling CD's of your music at everywher=
e you go.
> >> Use the studio music your band records and put some songs on the CD
> >> and offer it for sale (maybe have a bunch of them for sale after you pl=
ay).
> >> You might also want to record some of your live sets to put on other CD=
's
> >> that you could sell wherever you play. =C2=A0At least it is a way to ma=
ybe make
> >> back some money and if people like your sets then they'll buy a reasona=
bly
> >> priced CD of your band. =C2=A0Well - that's the hope anyways.
>
> >> Just a thought. =C2=A0Use your gigs as a way to travel and sell CD's.- =
Piilota siteerattu teksti -
>
> >> - N=C3=A4yt=C3=A4 siteerattu teksti -
>
> > Yep that's what we've been doing in the past. However there are
> > certain problems especially w/selling the CD's---if there is someone
> > at the door cashing, we can promote it like 'btw you should get our CD
> > at the door, only $5 or whatever' but usually there's a problem of who
> > would sell the CD's and when.
>
> > If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> > spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> > exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> > it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> > and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
>
> > I guess it all comes down to being a way of life. I've played a three-
> > numbered amount of gigs in various bands and all in all, I'd say I
> > must be many many thousands in the minus for doing that. Sometimes
> > I've had good money from gigs, but nowhere near enough to cover for
> > dozens and dozens of freebies and other expenses.
>
> > Gigs do get you places; I've had airplay for maybe a dozen times w/my
> > bands and several interviews, even a few full-page articles in mags
> > and newspapers...once our video rotated on a semi-national TV channel
> > for over a month...we shoulda gotten 17.000 in royalties but the
> > network went bankrupt and we never got a dime...but at least we did
> > make another video and got to play a few gigs in sportshall size
> > venues with big bands.
>
> > But ultimately.. . it really gets you nowhere. So my interest in doing
> > gigs is not big at all...but I realize we must do some minimum of
> > them, or else the band will soon die..you need to gig to keep the
> > energy going and to have something to aim for. Hell if there is no gig
> > looming, people hardly bother to train because there is nothing to
> > strive for. So its do or die, sort of. Sigh.
>
> > That's why I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on how do
> > people balance the playing as a hobby/need to gig some and how do they
> > cope with the problems therein. I mean, yeah, it's a way to travel but
> > after so many ratty bars (which is all you get to see really) at
> > around midnight and endless hours sitting in the van or waiting to get
> > onstage, it gets old real quick. I'm not an energetic youngster
> > anymore after all :-)
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Dee
>
> You mature and reach the point of honest self-reflection (as your post
> reveals you to be doing)and realize that bands and the entire lifestyle
> are for kids.
>
> It's a painful arrival, but no different than than that which the
> athlete eventually reaches.
>
> That doesn't mean stop playing, it means, smile and grow up. There are
> now many technological alternatives and the CD will be dead relatively
> soon anyway.
>
> Life. mvm 51
>
> * tinyurl . com /32j32m- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm no big fan of CD quality sound, but MP3 quality sounds is
essentially atrocious. I guess typical pop sclock is OK on MP3, as the
sound is irrelevant anyways, but what % of the total music market is
pop schlock these days anyways? The market is so "fragmented"...ie
people actually have and express individual tastes, that no one form
can force anything in any event. While it is easy to downlaod,
assuming you don't mind the scumware on your computer, it's also easy
to make CDs....with no scumware!
The only real good way to make money in music is to have some sort of
sound people want to hear and get good money for the gigs. You're
certainly not going to make much selling CDs or downloads, that's for
sure! I don't know if I'd bother with it if I had something people
wanted to hear.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
DeeAa wrote:
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
There's no merch tables at the venues over there?
Andy.
DeeAa wrote:
> If a gig starts round 11-12 and ends by 01, well...who of us should
> spend time walking around the drunks and peddling the CD's? Not
> exactly enticing. Done that too, but a few sold CD's just ain't worth
> it when all you want to be doing is loading the gear back to the van
> and getting a few beers in after sweating on a gig.
There's no merch tables at the venues over there?
Andy.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On May 14, 11:11 pm, "DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE T...@dnainternet . net > wrote:
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
Try to be the opening act for as many good bands as you can. It's a
better prospect, because the headliner holds all the responsibilities.
We love opening (and stealing) the show.
;^)
-dave-----:::
w w w .myspace . com /geetardave
On May 14, 11:11 pm, "DeeAa" <deeaaREMOVE T...@dnainternet . net > wrote:
> So...how do you guys in bands playing original material deal with these
> issues?
Try to be the opening act for as many good bands as you can. It's a
better prospect, because the headliner holds all the responsibilities.
We love opening (and stealing) the show.
;^)
-dave-----:::
w w w .myspace . com /geetardave
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On Thu, 15 May 2008 06:11:59 +0300, DeeAa wrote:
> As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
> to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
> we play, and for what costs.
>
> We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
> 300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
> a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
I've never done a free gig at a bar regardless what they provided.
If they want an audition they'll pay for it. I might reconsider if they
gave beer away to everyone seeing it's the same thing as giving our
performance away.
On Thu, 15 May 2008 06:11:59 +0300, DeeAa wrote:
> As you may have noticed from my posts, my band Crankenhaus is getting ready
> to be gigging more...so the question for the band is now: how many gigs will
> we play, and for what costs.
>
> We've had a couple of warmup gigs, and tomorrow is the next one. It's a
> 300km trip altogether though, and they don't pay nuthing - well promised us
> a couple of beers. But they provide the PA and all.
I've never done a free gig at a bar regardless what they provided.
If they want an audition they'll pay for it. I might reconsider if they
gave beer away to everyone seeing it's the same thing as giving our
performance away.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
Meat Plow wrote:
> I've never done a free gig at a bar regardless what they provided.
> If they want an audition they'll pay for it. I might reconsider if they
> gave beer away to everyone seeing it's the same thing as giving our
> performance away.
In London, there are tons of bands so you're lucky to get paid, and that
generally requires doing covers, which we don't.
Someone in another band recently said that they refused a gig because
the owner of the club is charging an entry fee but not paying the band.
It's quite normal not to even get a beer when you play, yet of course
the owner gets pissed off if you bring your own...
I play live because I enjoy it first and foremost, so getting paid would
just be a bonus. If the owner or promoter is a wanker then I'd never
play there again.
Meat Plow wrote:
> I've never done a free gig at a bar regardless what they provided.
> If they want an audition they'll pay for it. I might reconsider if they
> gave beer away to everyone seeing it's the same thing as giving our
> performance away.
In London, there are tons of bands so you're lucky to get paid, and that
generally requires doing covers, which we don't.
Someone in another band recently said that they refused a gig because
the owner of the club is charging an entry fee but not paying the band.
It's quite normal not to even get a beer when you play, yet of course
the owner gets pissed off if you bring your own...
I play live because I enjoy it first and foremost, so getting paid would
just be a bonus. If the owner or promoter is a wanker then I'd never
play there again.
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
My opinion might be a bit harsh. I think people have devalued music
enough as it is.
Free downloads, "file sharing" (read stealing). Music is everywhere
for free. I am not interested in perpetuating that trend.
I don't play for free in a setting where there is commerce like a bar/
restaurant, etc. Even if it is a small amount, I don't think we are
being good stewards if we give it away.
I do play for free at charitable events and such.
How many countless hours honing our craft and countless $ spent on
gear and instruction? Do we do this with our profession?
The other part is, we are undercutting full time players by offering
our services as part timers for free. If this were a union situation,
wouldn't that be considered being a scab?
Most bar owners aren't gonna care that much if there is a drop off in
talent if they don't have to shell out $500 for the band on Saturday
night. Just my $.02
My opinion might be a bit harsh. I think people have devalued music
enough as it is.
Free downloads, "file sharing" (read stealing). Music is everywhere
for free. I am not interested in perpetuating that trend.
I don't play for free in a setting where there is commerce like a bar/
restaurant, etc. Even if it is a small amount, I don't think we are
being good stewards if we give it away.
I do play for free at charitable events and such.
How many countless hours honing our craft and countless $ spent on
gear and instruction? Do we do this with our profession?
The other part is, we are undercutting full time players by offering
our services as part timers for free. If this were a union situation,
wouldn't that be considered being a scab?
Most bar owners aren't gonna care that much if there is a drop off in
talent if they don't have to shell out $500 for the band on Saturday
night. Just my $.02
Re: For how long do you guys play for free?
On May 15, 12:13 pm, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice . com > wrote:
> My opinion might be a bit harsh. I think people have devalued music
> enough as it is.
>
> Free downloads, "file sharing" (read stealing). Music is everywhere
> for free. I am not interested in perpetuating that trend.
>
> I don't play for free in a setting where there is commerce like a bar/
> restaurant, etc. Even if it is a small amount, I don't think we are
> being good stewards if we give it away.
>
> I do play for free at charitable events and such.
>
> How many countless hours honing our craft and countless $ spent on
> gear and instruction? Do we do this with our profession?
>
> The other part is, we are undercutting full time players by offering
> our services as part timers for free. If this were a union situation,
> wouldn't that be considered being a scab?
>
> Most bar owners aren't gonna care that much if there is a drop off in
> talent if they don't have to shell out $500 for the band on Saturday
> night. Just my $.02
Around where I am, local bands who get paid bar gigs are the ones that
bring in the most patrons = lots of booze sold. Talent is secondary.
Most, if not all, are cover bands. The scary talented bands playing
originals are the ones you see playing for free at the library, the
town common, etc. on Saturday afternoons.
-d
On May 15, 12:13 pm, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice . com > wrote:
> My opinion might be a bit harsh. I think people have devalued music
> enough as it is.
>
> Free downloads, "file sharing" (read stealing). Music is everywhere
> for free. I am not interested in perpetuating that trend.
>
> I don't play for free in a setting where there is commerce like a bar/
> restaurant, etc. Even if it is a small amount, I don't think we are
> being good stewards if we give it away.
>
> I do play for free at charitable events and such.
>
> How many countless hours honing our craft and countless $ spent on
> gear and instruction? Do we do this with our profession?
>
> The other part is, we are undercutting full time players by offering
> our services as part timers for free. If this were a union situation,
> wouldn't that be considered being a scab?
>
> Most bar owners aren't gonna care that much if there is a drop off in
> talent if they don't have to shell out $500 for the band on Saturday
> night. Just my $.02
Around where I am, local bands who get paid bar gigs are the ones that
bring in the most patrons = lots of booze sold. Talent is secondary.
Most, if not all, are cover bands. The scary talented bands playing
originals are the ones you see playing for free at the library, the
town common, etc. on Saturday afternoons.
-d
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