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Matching head and cab different watts?
Matching head and cab different watts?
I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
end.
Two questions:
Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
normal?
Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
it (?!)
I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
end.
Two questions:
Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
normal?
Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
it (?!)
Re: Matching head and cab different watts?
<docgorpon@aol . com > wrote in message
news:11d2c9a8-0f3b-4b38-a65a-3f30af96b0c3@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups . com ...
>I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W @ 2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
So it'll do 8 or 2... don't run it at 2ohms!
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
How's the sensitivity compare? The 240w cab may actually be
louder for the same watts... and, unless you're a hormone-
ridden teenager, you should be able to keep the volume below
7, at least... geez, how hard must you rock? Playing stadiums,
or turning your brains to jelly in the bedroom?
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
It's not that big of a deal... but see below
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
You can certainly blow up the cabinet with that head... just dime
all the controls and flail until smoke comes out. If you don't do
this, I'm pretty sure you'll be OK, and you're covered under
warranty anyway, right? That amp's going to sound better when
it's not maxed out, anyway... SS outputs are kinda like that.
__
Steve
.
<docgorpon@aol . com > wrote in message
news:11d2c9a8-0f3b-4b38-a65a-3f30af96b0c3@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups . com ...
>I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W @ 2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
So it'll do 8 or 2... don't run it at 2ohms!
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
How's the sensitivity compare? The 240w cab may actually be
louder for the same watts... and, unless you're a hormone-
ridden teenager, you should be able to keep the volume below
7, at least... geez, how hard must you rock? Playing stadiums,
or turning your brains to jelly in the bedroom?
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
It's not that big of a deal... but see below
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
You can certainly blow up the cabinet with that head... just dime
all the controls and flail until smoke comes out. If you don't do
this, I'm pretty sure you'll be OK, and you're covered under
warranty anyway, right? That amp's going to sound better when
it's not maxed out, anyway... SS outputs are kinda like that.
__
Steve
.
Re: Matching head and cab different watts?
docgorpon@aol . com wrote:
> Why would they mismatch them like this?
>
Perhaps you should axe Mr. Randall.
docgorpon@aol . com wrote:
> Why would they mismatch them like this?
>
Perhaps you should axe Mr. Randall.
Re: Matching head and cab different watts?
Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that Randall doesn't know what
the hell they are talking about. Note this cab description:
R412XLTX
270W RMS
Same as above
Two Celestion Vintage 30's
Two Celestion G12T-75's
Mic Eliminator jack plate
Now, in fact, when mixing speakers in a cab, you always calculate power
handling based upon the lowest power speakers in the box. So, the corrrect
power handling for this can would be 240. not 270. They make some 280 watt
claims about a Mic Eliminator feature, but I have no idea what that is, and
can't find an explaination on their site.
Note, their site also doesn't say whether the cabs are 4, 8 or 16 ohms.
There is no telling (without knowing this) how much power the head will
actually push.
Secondly, you probably don't want the 400 watt cab as the Celestion 100 watt
speakers are not anyone's favorites.
So, since you have the can that has the Vintage 30's in it, and they are 60
watt speakers (for a total of 240 watts), they only thing I can say is that
you need a second cabinet if you plan on cranking your amp to max power. In
fact, any head with more than 50 watts is generally intended to run two cabs
anyway. Sure, a single 4x12 with anything heftier than Greenbacks can handle
a 100 watt head, but if you need that much power, you probably also need
more speakers to push more air to fill the "arena" with. :)
By the way - when picking a speaker cabinet, you should probably be more
concerned with the type of speakers inside (re: type of tone) rather than
the power handling. Tonally, V30's are really not the ideal speaker for
metal for example. Similarly, GT75's are aweful for classic rock. So,
putting wattage aside, pick the right speaker for the job, and then get
enough of them to handle your power comfortably.
<docgorpon@aol . com > wrote in message
news:11d2c9a8-0f3b-4b38-a65a-3f30af96b0c3@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups . com ...
>I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
>
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
>
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
>
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
>
>
Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that Randall doesn't know what
the hell they are talking about. Note this cab description:
R412XLTX
270W RMS
Same as above
Two Celestion Vintage 30's
Two Celestion G12T-75's
Mic Eliminator jack plate
Now, in fact, when mixing speakers in a cab, you always calculate power
handling based upon the lowest power speakers in the box. So, the corrrect
power handling for this can would be 240. not 270. They make some 280 watt
claims about a Mic Eliminator feature, but I have no idea what that is, and
can't find an explaination on their site.
Note, their site also doesn't say whether the cabs are 4, 8 or 16 ohms.
There is no telling (without knowing this) how much power the head will
actually push.
Secondly, you probably don't want the 400 watt cab as the Celestion 100 watt
speakers are not anyone's favorites.
So, since you have the can that has the Vintage 30's in it, and they are 60
watt speakers (for a total of 240 watts), they only thing I can say is that
you need a second cabinet if you plan on cranking your amp to max power. In
fact, any head with more than 50 watts is generally intended to run two cabs
anyway. Sure, a single 4x12 with anything heftier than Greenbacks can handle
a 100 watt head, but if you need that much power, you probably also need
more speakers to push more air to fill the "arena" with. :)
By the way - when picking a speaker cabinet, you should probably be more
concerned with the type of speakers inside (re: type of tone) rather than
the power handling. Tonally, V30's are really not the ideal speaker for
metal for example. Similarly, GT75's are aweful for classic rock. So,
putting wattage aside, pick the right speaker for the job, and then get
enough of them to handle your power comfortably.
<docgorpon@aol . com > wrote in message
news:11d2c9a8-0f3b-4b38-a65a-3f30af96b0c3@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups . com ...
>I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
>
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
>
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
>
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
>
>
Re: Matching head and cab different watts?
> <"docgorpon@aol . com "> wrote:
> I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
>
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
>
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
>
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
>
>
Randall is a wanker company (imho).
I think what they mean is that it can handle 280W *peak* at 8 ohms.
There is RMS ratings and peak ratings. Many speakers rated to handle
(for example) 60 watts are able to handle 60 watts RMS but might be
able to handle 80 watts (or more) for temporary peaks.
But this also means that if you would continue to pummel that 60 watt
speaker with a continous 80 watts that the speaker would become part of
a landfill somewhere after it blew.
So I think Randall is using 'peak' handling instead of the usual RMS rating.
It's a way to make the numbers look better but it's crap marketing jargon.
The other thing is that Randall insists on putting in Vintage 30 flavored
speakers into its cabs (at least it used to) and the thing is that
anyone buying a Randall head is doing the high gain metal thing and
Vintage 30's aren't even the right speaker for such things (well ok - there
are no rules and you can certainly make any speaker work for you) but
generally those big mid peaks in the Vintage 30 make it hard to dial
in for scooped tones. You want something like Eminence Swamp Thang's in those
cabs for big chunk and more even mids which can be scooped or bumped.
Hey - take out the V30's and sell them and then get a set of
Eminence Swamp Thang's and you're ready for any high gain stuff
and good metal tones. Each of those speakers handle 150 watts RMS
and 200 watts peak - so if you blow these up then your audience has
already gone deaf three songs ago (along with the band).
But these are the type of speakers you want. You don't want to
bring a mid humpy speaker that can only handle 60 watts (in this case
4x12 is 60 x 4 = 240 RMA) into a metal shoot out. So get beefy good speakers.
that can handle 150x4 = 600 watt RMS cab. Go ahead and play large stadiums
but don't try to use this rig in a local club.
It really seems that anyone such as yourself buying this type of rig
is already at the level of playing large outdoor venues or stadium stuff
and would know all this info by this time.
It's rare a beginner would get this kind of wattage setup unless it's
a kid in a basement band - but then eventually you are going to want to
get a lower wattage rig to actually play outside of the basement in real places.
(unless you get immediately signed and start playing stadiums right away).
heh. ok - that's my 2 cents.
Randall is wanker gear. But hey - if you're a good player
then you can make any gear work for you.
> <"docgorpon@aol . com "> wrote:
> I just bought a Randall cab. It's the "XL" series, which is their top
> of the line cab that is supposed to go with their "XL" line of heads.
> But the watts are not really matched. First off, the head is Solid
> state (tube preamp) with these ratings:
>
> 400W @ 4 Ohms, 280W @ 8 Ohms, 500W@2 Ohms
>
> The matching cab (4x12) is this 240W RMS with switchable ohms.
> Although they say on the site that it can "handle" 280W.
>
> Why would they mismatch them like this? They just came out with a new
> cab model that's 400w. But of course, it's too late for that now on my
> end.
>
> Two questions:
> Are mismatching amp components of the same model series like this
> normal?
>
> Is there a chance I'll blow my cab if I get the head that's made for
> it (?!)
>
>
Randall is a wanker company (imho).
I think what they mean is that it can handle 280W *peak* at 8 ohms.
There is RMS ratings and peak ratings. Many speakers rated to handle
(for example) 60 watts are able to handle 60 watts RMS but might be
able to handle 80 watts (or more) for temporary peaks.
But this also means that if you would continue to pummel that 60 watt
speaker with a continous 80 watts that the speaker would become part of
a landfill somewhere after it blew.
So I think Randall is using 'peak' handling instead of the usual RMS rating.
It's a way to make the numbers look better but it's crap marketing jargon.
The other thing is that Randall insists on putting in Vintage 30 flavored
speakers into its cabs (at least it used to) and the thing is that
anyone buying a Randall head is doing the high gain metal thing and
Vintage 30's aren't even the right speaker for such things (well ok - there
are no rules and you can certainly make any speaker work for you) but
generally those big mid peaks in the Vintage 30 make it hard to dial
in for scooped tones. You want something like Eminence Swamp Thang's in those
cabs for big chunk and more even mids which can be scooped or bumped.
Hey - take out the V30's and sell them and then get a set of
Eminence Swamp Thang's and you're ready for any high gain stuff
and good metal tones. Each of those speakers handle 150 watts RMS
and 200 watts peak - so if you blow these up then your audience has
already gone deaf three songs ago (along with the band).
But these are the type of speakers you want. You don't want to
bring a mid humpy speaker that can only handle 60 watts (in this case
4x12 is 60 x 4 = 240 RMA) into a metal shoot out. So get beefy good speakers.
that can handle 150x4 = 600 watt RMS cab. Go ahead and play large stadiums
but don't try to use this rig in a local club.
It really seems that anyone such as yourself buying this type of rig
is already at the level of playing large outdoor venues or stadium stuff
and would know all this info by this time.
It's rare a beginner would get this kind of wattage setup unless it's
a kid in a basement band - but then eventually you are going to want to
get a lower wattage rig to actually play outside of the basement in real places.
(unless you get immediately signed and start playing stadiums right away).
heh. ok - that's my 2 cents.
Randall is wanker gear. But hey - if you're a good player
then you can make any gear work for you.
