I know you're sick of me, but...

I know you're sick of me, but...

Ok, so I'll summarize what I think I've learned about chords below.
1. The major chords are formed by the first, third and fifth notes in the
relative scale.
2. A minor chord is formed by the first and flatted third
3. A dominant seventh chord is formed by flatting the seventh note in the
scale.
4. A Major seventh chord is formed by not flatting the seventh note in the
scale.
So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and incorporating
the seventh?

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

Robert Riddle wrote:
> So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and
> incorporating the seventh?

Take the chord apart in pieces.

Am7

It's an Am chord.
Add the seventh. Don't add the Major 7th,
it doesn't say Maj 7th in the chord, it
simply says "7".


Take apart a CMaj7

It's a C chord.
Add the Maj 7th. Don't add the "seventh",
add the "Maj seventh" as the chord asks.


Take apart a G7

It's a G chord.
Add the 7th. Don't add the "Maj 7th",
add the "7" as the chord asks. Don't make
it a G minor chord, the chord symbol
didn't ask for that.

Ok so far?
Two kinds of chords. Maj and minor:

We don't say the word "Major" when we indicate a
C or a G or a Bb chord. We just say the letter.
It's assumed it's a Major chord.

We DO say the word minor. So Cm, Am, G#m etc
are all minor chords. If there's 7ths or 9ths
or any other extenders on the end, the chord
is still a minor chord.

Two kinds of 7ths (for now):

7 - Just 7 by itself. Add a note that is 2 half
steps lower than the octave.

Maj7 or M7 - Add a note that is ONE half step
lower than the octave.

All that gives you the following combination possibilities,
examples are C chord based:

C
C7
CMaj7
Those are all Maj chords.

Cmin
Cmin7
Cmin(Maj7)
Those are all min chords.

I've notated the minor chords with "min" because I'm
not sure how you read/hear them. I'm thinking it's
confusing if your software can't tell the difference
between the symbol for an A minor chord and the
English language word "am".

Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...


"Robert Riddle" <captinlogic@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dYkHj.233$Xm1.221@newsfe02.lga...
> Ok, so I'll summarize what I think I've learned about chords below.
> 1. The major chords are formed by the first, third and fifth notes in the
> relative scale.

first, third and fifth

> 2. A minor chord is formed by the first and flatted third

first, flatted third and fifth

the other triads are the diminished

first, flatted third and flatted fifth

and the augmented

first, third and sharp fifth

the suspended fourth is also a three note chord

first, fourth and fifth

> 3. A dominant seventh chord is formed by flatting the seventh note in the
> scale.

first, third, fifth and flatted seventh

> 4. A Major seventh chord is formed by not flatting the seventh note in the
> scale.

first, third, fifth, and seventh

> So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and incorporating
> the seventh?
>

first, flated third, fifth and flatted seventh

there are a total of ten different seventh chords.

Bob

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

sycochkn wrote:
> there are a total of ten different seventh chords.

I don't think I know ten. What are they?


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:21:30 -0700, Lumpy wrote:

> sycochkn wrote:
>> there are a total of ten different seventh chords.
>
> I don't think I know ten. What are they?
>
>
> Lumpy
>
> In Your Ears for 40 Years
> www .LumpyMusic,com

A7, Am7, Amaj7, Am(maj7)
those 4 with b5
those 4 with #5
dim7
m7b5 or leading tone 7th or "half-diminished 7th" (always hated that. An
interval is either dim or it isn't.)

which makes 14. daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox,net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
http :// www .openguitar,com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http :// www .openguitar,com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On 29 Mar, 05:32, David Raleigh Arnold <darno...@cox,net > wrote:

>
> A7, Am7, Amaj7, Am(maj7)
> those 4 with b5
> those 4 with #5
> dim7
......

> m7b5

Didn't you include that in line two?

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:52:22 -0700, johnty wrote:

> On 29 Mar, 05:32, David Raleigh Arnold <darno...@cox,net > wrote:
>
>
>> A7, Am7, Amaj7, Am(maj7)
>> those 4 with b5
>> those 4 with #5
>> dim7
> ......
>
>> m7b5
>
> Didn't you include that in line two?

Ooops. 13. :-) daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox,net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
http :// www .openguitar,com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http :// www .openguitar,com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...


"Lumpy" <lumpy@digitalcartography,com > wrote in message
news:656909F2emrgsU1@mid.individual,net ...
> sycochkn wrote:
>> there are a total of ten different seventh chords.
>
> I don't think I know ten. What are they?
>
>
> Lumpy
>
> In Your Ears for 40 Years
> www .LumpyMusic,com
>
>
>

*major 7th

1,3,5,7

major 7th/diminished 5th

1,3,b5,7

*minor 7th

1,b3,5,b7

minor-major 7th

1,b3,5,7

*dominant 7th

1,3,5,b7

dominant 7th/augmented 5th

1,3,#5,b7

dominant 7th/diminished 5th

1,3,b5,b7

dominant 7th suspended 4th

1,3,b5,b7

*diminished 7th

1,b3,b5,bb7

*half diminished 7th

1,b3,b5,b7

*probably the most common

So I guess that is ten possible bass/melody notes as a 7th chord.

Bob

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

....
> So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and incorporating
> the seventh?

Yes in eg. Cm7 the E is flat:
http :// www .123-game,com /guitar/fretboardprinter2.asp?a=1&b=117

--
Best Regards
Peter Heinzl
www .123-game,com /guitar

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:03:18 -0500, Robert Riddle wrote:

> Ok, so I'll summarize what I think I've learned about chords below. 1.
> The major chords are formed by the first, third and fifth notes in the
> relative scale.
> 2. A minor chord is formed by the first and flatted third 3. A dominant
> seventh chord is formed by flatting the seventh note in the scale.
> 4. A Major seventh chord is formed by not flatting the seventh note in
> the scale.
> So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and
> incorporating the seventh?

It's better thinking to build chords on the dominant--the 5th
note, of a major scale. The complete G13 has all the notes of
the C scale.

rg a 3b c 5d e 7f

It works to build a G7 on the notes of a C harmonic minor scale too, but
when you get to the ninth it's over, so it's simpler to
think of everything as based on the dominant scale or
dominant 13 arpeggio which is the same notes. Sometimes even now
there can be confusion over the minor 9th. It's a minor 7 with
an added major 9th, and the minor 9th interval is a b9 instead
of a m9.

rg ab 3b c 5d eb 7f

So your basic 7th chords are triads with added 7th
intervals.

A + m7 = A7
Am + m7 = Am7
A + maj7 = Amaj7
Am + maj7 = Ammaj7

Because you have the A7, you have the Am(maj7). You use the more
convenient name for the chord used the most.

The only chord that doesn't follow the naming conventions is
the dim7. daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox,net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
http :// www .openguitar,com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http :// www .openguitar,com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...


"Robert Riddle" <captinlogic@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dYkHj.233$Xm1.221@newsfe02.lga...
> Ok, so I'll summarize what I think I've learned about chords below.
> 1. The major chords are formed by the first, third and fifth notes in the
> relative scale.
> 2. A minor chord is formed by the first and flatted third
> 3. A dominant seventh chord is formed by flatting the seventh note in the
> scale.
> 4. A Major seventh chord is formed by not flatting the seventh note in the
> scale.
> So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and incorporating
> the seventh?
>
>

Hey Rob

Don't worry about the questions, it's nice to see a total beginner in the NG
:-)

I've got to say some of the things you ask, I think "oh yeah what does that
actually mean?"

So it's not just helping you.

Cheers

Angof

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 08:10:58 -0700, Lumpy wrote:

> David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:21:30 -0700, Lumpy wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
> sycochkn wrote:
>> > > there are a total of ten different seventh chords.
>
> Lump:
>> > I don't think I know ten. What are they?
>
> DRA:
>> A7, Am7, Amaj7, Am(maj7)
>> those 4 with b5
>> those 4 with #5
>> dim7
>> m7b5 or leading tone 7th or "half-diminished 7th" (always hated that.
>> An interval is either dim or it isn't.)
>>
>> which makes 14.
>
> I don't consider all of those as separate kinds of 7th chords.

They aren't. Only 13 are.
>
> Your last example (m7b5) is a duplicate of your 2nd example.

Yes.
>
> I think if you wanted to list every possible itieration of a 7th chord,
> you'd come up with a few more. flat and sharp 9th,

Where does adding stuff come from? 7ths are enough for today.

sharp 11th, sus 4 or
> 2 etc. How about Bm7/E and other hybrids.
>
> I don't consider a lot of those as separete types of 7th chords.

Who did?

The 7th
> can take only three forms. Any one of those three can be added on to
> nearly any kind of triad or group of extenders.

So what?
>
> I think we'd also get into a sonic problem with some theoretical
> variants. Example:
> Am(Maj7)b5
>
> That might technically be a chord. But I think it would be a stretch to
> consider that a "category" or type of 7th chord.

Not at all. You are stretching in every direction. If it's
"technically" a chord, it's a chord. There are plenty
of useless chord names, but that doesn't make a useless chord by some
other name. The worst IMO is the b13th used when there is no 5th. It's
a #5. That seems to be your point. There remain 13 types of 7th chord.
>
> Another example:
> Am7#5 is A C E# G. That's a technically possible chord. But in real
> life, it's a simple F9th. I don't think of that as a separate category
> of 7th chords either.

But you do. eb, e, e#, e in an Am7 chord is common enough. It is more
convenient to name it as an Am7 than an F9 chord then.

> I try and deal with the 7th interval as either being Maj, min or dim.
> The rest of the chord can do whatever it wants, Maj, min, dim, aug, sus,
> etc. But the "7" indicator is telling me to do only one thing. That is
> to play one of three notes with this chord.

But the problem with that is that Amaj with a m7th and Am with a maj7th
are not the same thing. daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox,net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
http :// www .openguitar,com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http :// www .openguitar,com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 08:19:59 -0700, Lumpy wrote:

> Lumpy wrote:
>> Another example:
>> Am7#5 is A C E# G. That's a technically possible chord. But in real
>> life, it's a simple F9th. I don't think of that as a separate category
>> of 7th chords either.
>
> Make that a "simple Fadd9 instead of "simple F9"

I knew what you meant. Academics have tried to use names of chords that
make sense instead of names of chords for instant recognition. IMO
neither the sheet music conventions nor the forgotten reformations of the
1940's {g7alt --> g7(b5) } are well suited to this. Instant recognition
should always be preferred, IMO. Em7/g or G6? It's a matter of
recognition, not truth. Sometimes a more sophisticated chord name is
easier to recognize.

G6 D9 G6 D9 G Em7 Am7 D9 G6

Am7 Am7(#5) Am6 C7(#5) Fadd9 Fadd9/a Bbm6

The stretch IMO is to take recognition by context all the way to a system
for analysis. There is a limit, but 13 7ths isn't mine. 7(b13) is:

D9 G7(b13) C9 Fmaj7

D9 G7(#5) C9 Fmaj7

A lead player doesn't have to make choices about how correct the chords
are, he just has to see what they are. It doesn't matter to him that the
'e' is moving down. He shouldn't play it moving down anyway. The chord
player is going to play ok in any case. daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox,net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
http :// www .openguitar,com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
http :// www .openguitar,com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:03:18 -0500, "Robert Riddle"
<captinlogic@gmail,com > wrote:

>Ok, so I'll summarize what I think I've learned about chords below.
>1. The major chords are formed by the first, third and fifth notes in the
>relative scale.
>2. A minor chord is formed by the first and flatted third
>3. A dominant seventh chord is formed by flatting the seventh note in the
>scale.
>4. A Major seventh chord is formed by not flatting the seventh note in the
>scale.
>So, how is a minor seventh formed? By flatting the third and incorporating
>the seventh?
>

"I know you're sick of me"....hmmmm...sounds like a good song name.

*********
http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID=819923
http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

Re: I know you're sick of me, but...

jtees4 wrote:


> "I know you're sick of me"....hmmmm...sounds like a good song name.

I know you're sick of me wakin' up this mornin'


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com