Building your Repertoire?

Building your Repertoire?

I read this Q from a reader on the Guitar Principles
email from Jamie.

Q:
I have been playing for 4 years and I am what you
would describe as an average student...average talent,
practicing 45 minutes to an hour a day without fail.
What is a realistic number of songs that I should
know how to play well at this stage of my development?
Let's define "well" as: beginning to end, in tempo,
and with enough flair to play it in front of other people.
While this may sound like an odd question, it speaks
to the issue of concentrated practice. I have done
myself a disservice by developing breadth but very
little depth in my repertoire. Can you give me any
guidance? Is 3-4 songs a year about right?

*****

I'm quite bothered by a couple of things in that
question.

"I am what you
would describe as an average student...average talent..."

He's SCREAMING "cop out" to me. How does he know what
I describe as "an average student"? How does he know
that such a category even exists in my viewpoint? (it doesn't).

HE is the one describing "average". HE is the one
that is putting automatic LIMITS on his ability.
Then he uses the ultimate cop out term "talent".
TALENT is a product of how much work you put into the thing.
It is NOT an excuse for "why I'm not good enough".

The other problem I have is "3-4 songs a year about right?"

MAN is that guy over reaching. I'd like to see him add
3-4 songs per week or per day. If he needs three or four
MONTHS to figure out how to play ONE song, he SERIOUSLY
needs to simplify his arrangements so that he can
learn them.

Imagine a song that comes out today, that you can't
play in FOUR months, dispite daily practice of 45 min
to an hour.

The very nature of his question is odd. He's looking
for Jamie to "approve" his low performance. He obviously
thinks 3-4 songs per year is not enough.

Geez fella. What the hell are you practicing every day
for an hour that takes you an entire season to get
a handle on?


Lumpy

Oooh!
www .CraigAndHeather,net

Re: Building your Repertoire?

I don't see a lot of methods that teach songs all the way thru.

I see them where they teach chunks. Part of this is due to copyright
issues.

It is cooler to learn licks, intros, scales, runs, etc, than to bang
out whole tunes.

At least, that is what I see from many published teaching materials.

Re: Building your Repertoire?

On Apr 4, 11:53 am, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice,com > wrote:
> I don't see a lot of methods that teach songs all the way thru.
>
> I see them where they teach chunks. Part of this is due to copyright
> issues.
>
> It is cooler to learn licks, intros, scales, runs, etc, than to bang
> out whole tunes.
>
> At least, that is what I see from many published teaching materials.

Screw that - thats a worse cop out than what Lumpy was taking about.
You don't need a Copywrite to play a song, you don't need a teach to
show you how to play a song, just listen to the song, take a chunk at
a time and figure it out as best you can- learn it from start to
finish ( who cares if you can play a few hot licks ( its not cooler
except at guitar center maybe - play a song would ya, lead is nothing
without rhythm guitar , learn the cords all the way through the song,
maybe even the bass parts, then worry about how the leads interact
with whats going on). And You don't even need any of this stuff, make
up you own if you want.. and hmmm yeah dude 3 song a year is pathetic.
( not even a reasonable question).. and I'm also guessing they are not
some super complex pieces 1/2 hour in length !! I think I 'd just
give it up and get guitar hero at that point ( hopeless) - Ed S.

Re: Building your Repertoire?

ed s wrote:
>
> Screw that - thats a worse cop out than what Lumpy was taking about.
> You don't need a Copywrite to play a song, you don't need a teach to
> show you how to play a song, just listen to the song, take a chunk at
> a time and figure it out as best you can- learn it from start to
> finish ( who cares if you can play a few hot licks ( its not cooler
> except at guitar center maybe - play a song would ya, lead is nothing
> without rhythm guitar , learn the cords all the way through the song,
> maybe even the bass parts, then worry about how the leads interact
> with whats going on). And You don't even need any of this stuff, make
> up you own if you want.. and hmmm  yeah dude 3 song a year is pathetic.
> ( not even a reasonable question).. and I'm also guessing they are not
> some super complex pieces 1/2 hour in length !!  I think I 'd just
> give it up and get guitar hero at that point ( hopeless)  - Ed S.

Agreed, but most players learn by what they see in teaching vids and
in books.

I doubt the majority work tunes out on their own by listening. The
first thing a newbie here asks for is where to find the tab for x song
for free on the net.

I am just saying, I don't see many approaches teaching you how to play
the whole thing start to finish.

Most guys just want to learn what they percieve as the "cool bits"
anyway.

I would rather play a bunch of tunes also. I just don't get many
students who come in and say that. They want to learn this lick or
that, or so and so's solo.

Re: Building your Repertoire?

Derek wrote:
> ed s wrote:
>> Screw that - thats a worse cop out than what Lumpy was taking about.
>> You don't need a Copywrite to play a song, you don't need a teach to
>> show you how to play a song, just listen to the song, take a chunk at
>> a time and figure it out as best you can- learn it from start to
>> finish ( who cares if you can play a few hot licks ( its not cooler
>> except at guitar center maybe - play a song would ya, lead is nothing
>> without rhythm guitar , learn the cords all the way through the song,
>> maybe even the bass parts, then worry about how the leads interact
>> with whats going on). And You don't even need any of this stuff, make
>> up you own if you want.. and hmmm yeah dude 3 song a year is pathetic.
>> ( not even a reasonable question).. and I'm also guessing they are not
>> some super complex pieces 1/2 hour in length !! I think I 'd just
>> give it up and get guitar hero at that point ( hopeless) - Ed S.
>
> Agreed, but most players learn by what they see in teaching vids and
> in books.
>
> I doubt the majority work tunes out on their own by listening. The
> first thing a newbie here asks for is where to find the tab for x song
> for free on the net.
>
> I am just saying, I don't see many approaches teaching you how to play
> the whole thing start to finish.
>
> Most guys just want to learn what they percieve as the "cool bits"
> anyway.
>
> I would rather play a bunch of tunes also. I just don't get many
> students who come in and say that. They want to learn this lick or
> that, or so and so's solo.
>

I find I do better listening than using tabs - I may grab a tab to
figure out is something is in an alternate tuning, or get a basic grasp
of the chords/progressions involved, but in general they aren't of a lot
of use to me. I listen, listen, listen...play along, and then listen
some more.

...and improvise.

--
- Rufus

Re: Building your Repertoire?

Rufus <not@home,com > wrote in message
news:BavJj.105767$yE1.32366@attbi_s21...

> Derek wrote:

> > I would rather play a bunch of tunes also. I just don't get many
> > students who come in and say that. They want to learn this lick or
> > that, or so and so's solo.

> I find I do better listening than using tabs - I may grab a tab to
> figure out is something is in an alternate tuning, or get a basic grasp
> of the chords/progressions involved, but in general they aren't of a lot
> of use to me. I listen, listen, listen...play along, and then listen
> some more.
>
> ...and improvise.
>
> --
> - Rufus

Yeah, that's pretty much what I prefer, too. I like to listen to a song all
the way through, first-off, without trying to play along with it--at least
two or three times, even if I've already heard the tune a whole bunch of
times either over the radio, or on MP3 CDs I've already created (isn't
iTunes a veritable blessing...?). Then, and only then, do I attempt figuring
out melody and the accompanying chords.

A prime example is how I approached learning to play that old Cyrkle
classic, "Red Rubber Ball," co-written by Paul Simon. Of course, I'd already
heard the original version innumerable times, not only over Oldies radio
stations, but also from my CDs of Billboard-charted Pop tunes from year
1966. In another Usenet group (read: rec..music.rock-pop-r+b.1960s) a poster
suggested that I play a solo, acoustic, instrumental version of "Red Rubber
Ball. I agreed, most naturally.

Straight away, I reestablished a workable rapport with the tune by playing
it over and over again--around four or five times, as I recollect, without
even picking up the guitar. When I felt comfortable with the rudiments of
phrasing and rhythm, I grasped the guitar and picked out the melody, in
accompaniment with the Cyrkle song, in rather quick order. Previous
familiarity with the tune helped out immensely, to say the least, but I was
surprised to learn, on the fly, that there were two or three subtle chord
changes I'd missed while giving a "cold" (sans guitar) listening. I spent
the next hour or two hammering out my arrangement, which pretty much meshed
with the original's meter and phrasing, I must admit, and by hour three, as
I recall, I believed (eroneously, as it turned out) that I was essentially
ready to upload my take on "Red Rubber Ball" to the Usenet group.

Still, I wasn't completely comfortable, satisfied, with my results. Another
half-hour or so of tinkering, retooling my efforts, revealed to me that I
had neglected to include one of those subtle chord changes I'd already
picked up from the cold listening, but had yet to integrate into the
entirety of my arrangement. So, I backtracked a tad and managed to turn out
my personal rendering of the song in something less than four and a half
hours.

Most of that time, of course, was spent smoothing over the rough patches in
my own particular arrangement. The basics of the tune had been mastered in
much less time--needless to say, as the saying goes, "The devil is always in
the details." What a trite way to end this posting, but that pretty much
encapsulates my "Red Rubber Ball" learning experience.

My SoundClick page of original solo, acoustic, instrumental compositions.
http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID=817226&content=music

Re: Building your Repertoire?

Inyo wrote:

>
> Yeah, that's pretty much what I prefer, too. I like to listen to a song all
> the way through, first-off, without trying to play along with it--at least
> two or three times, even if I've already heard the tune a whole bunch of
> times either over the radio, or on MP3 CDs I've already created (isn't
> iTunes a veritable blessing...?). Then, and only then, do I attempt figuring
> out melody and the accompanying chords.
>
> A prime example is how I approached learning to play that old Cyrkle
> classic, "Red Rubber Ball," co-written by Paul Simon. Of course, I'd already
> heard the original version innumerable times, not only over Oldies radio
> stations, but also from my CDs of Billboard-charted Pop tunes from year
> 1966. In another Usenet group (read: rec..music.rock-pop-r+b.1960s) a poster
> suggested that I play a solo, acoustic, instrumental version of "Red Rubber
> Ball. I agreed, most naturally.
>
> Straight away, I reestablished a workable rapport with the tune by playing
> it over and over again--around four or five times, as I recollect, without
> even picking up the guitar. When I felt comfortable with the rudiments of
> phrasing and rhythm, I grasped the guitar and picked out the melody, in
> accompaniment with the Cyrkle song, in rather quick order. Previous
> familiarity with the tune helped out immensely, to say the least, but I was
> surprised to learn, on the fly, that there were two or three subtle chord
> changes I'd missed while giving a "cold" (sans guitar) listening. I spent
> the next hour or two hammering out my arrangement, which pretty much meshed
> with the original's meter and phrasing, I must admit, and by hour three, as
> I recall, I believed (eroneously, as it turned out) that I was essentially
> ready to upload my take on "Red Rubber Ball" to the Usenet group.
>
> Still, I wasn't completely comfortable, satisfied, with my results. Another
> half-hour or so of tinkering, retooling my efforts, revealed to me that I
> had neglected to include one of those subtle chord changes I'd already
> picked up from the cold listening, but had yet to integrate into the
> entirety of my arrangement. So, I backtracked a tad and managed to turn out
> my personal rendering of the song in something less than four and a half
> hours.
>
> Most of that time, of course, was spent smoothing over the rough patches in
> my own particular arrangement. The basics of the tune had been mastered in
> much less time--needless to say, as the saying goes, "The devil is always in
> the details." What a trite way to end this posting, but that pretty much
> encapsulates my "Red Rubber Ball" learning experience.
>
> My SoundClick page of original solo, acoustic, instrumental compositions.
> http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID�7226&content=music
>
>

After a good read like that I had to go to your site and listen. Very
impressive. High quality recordings, great guitar sound, nice
fingerpicking, good tunes. Well done.


--
Stephen
Ballina, Australia

Re: Building your Repertoire?

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:01:00 GMT, Stephen Calder <calder9@in,com .au>
wrote:

>Inyo wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, that's pretty much what I prefer, too. I like to listen to a song all
>> the way through, first-off, without trying to play along with it--at least
>> two or three times, even if I've already heard the tune a whole bunch of
>> times either over the radio, or on MP3 CDs I've already created (isn't
>> iTunes a veritable blessing...?). Then, and only then, do I attempt figuring
>> out melody and the accompanying chords.
>>
>> A prime example is how I approached learning to play that old Cyrkle
>> classic, "Red Rubber Ball," co-written by Paul Simon. Of course, I'd already
>> heard the original version innumerable times, not only over Oldies radio
>> stations, but also from my CDs of Billboard-charted Pop tunes from year
>> 1966. In another Usenet group (read: rec..music.rock-pop-r+b.1960s) a poster
>> suggested that I play a solo, acoustic, instrumental version of "Red Rubber
>> Ball. I agreed, most naturally.
>>
>> Straight away, I reestablished a workable rapport with the tune by playing
>> it over and over again--around four or five times, as I recollect, without
>> even picking up the guitar. When I felt comfortable with the rudiments of
>> phrasing and rhythm, I grasped the guitar and picked out the melody, in
>> accompaniment with the Cyrkle song, in rather quick order. Previous
>> familiarity with the tune helped out immensely, to say the least, but I was
>> surprised to learn, on the fly, that there were two or three subtle chord
>> changes I'd missed while giving a "cold" (sans guitar) listening. I spent
>> the next hour or two hammering out my arrangement, which pretty much meshed
>> with the original's meter and phrasing, I must admit, and by hour three, as
>> I recall, I believed (eroneously, as it turned out) that I was essentially
>> ready to upload my take on "Red Rubber Ball" to the Usenet group.
>>
>> Still, I wasn't completely comfortable, satisfied, with my results. Another
>> half-hour or so of tinkering, retooling my efforts, revealed to me that I
>> had neglected to include one of those subtle chord changes I'd already
>> picked up from the cold listening, but had yet to integrate into the
>> entirety of my arrangement. So, I backtracked a tad and managed to turn out
>> my personal rendering of the song in something less than four and a half
>> hours.
>>
>> Most of that time, of course, was spent smoothing over the rough patches in
>> my own particular arrangement. The basics of the tune had been mastered in
>> much less time--needless to say, as the saying goes, "The devil is always in
>> the details." What a trite way to end this posting, but that pretty much
>> encapsulates my "Red Rubber Ball" learning experience.
>>
>> My SoundClick page of original solo, acoustic, instrumental compositions.
>> http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID=817226&content=music
>>
>>
>
>After a good read like that I had to go to your site and listen. Very
>impressive. High quality recordings, great guitar sound, nice
>fingerpicking, good tunes. Well done.

ditto...very nice.

-- deleted messages --

Re: Building your Repertoire?

Sean wrote:
> ...I've read where John and Paul would hear
> about some guy across town who knew some cool chords,
> so they'd hop on the bus and cop the guy's knowledge.
> And they played together and with other people all
> the time. For fun, and to "pull birds."...

Yeah Baby! Let's pull some birds!


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

-- deleted messages --

Re: Building your Repertoire?

Paul P wrote:
> All through the show I kept saying
> to myself there really should
> be something like this for adults...

Describes my students and our open mic parties.


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: Building your Repertoire?

On Apr 5, 9:02 pm, "Lumpy" <lu...@digitalcartography,com > wrote:
> Paul P wrote:
> > All through the show I kept saying
> > to myself there really should
> > be something like this for adults...
>
> Describes my students and our open mic parties.
>
> Lumpy
>
> In Your Ears for 40 Years
>  www .LumpyMusic,com

Describes me & wife and frinds 2x a week - no one says you CAN't!! ed s

-- deleted messages --

Re: Building your Repertoire?

> The first half of the show was individual students performing each one song with some of them having maybe one or two accompanying musicians.

> Paul P

Paul, will you clarify something for me, please? Were some of these
students singing without accompaniment? Thank you.