How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

The Sting song, "Hung my head" alternates between measures of 4/8 and
5/8.

* youtube . com /watch?v=jR-MTqOIFzs


People say to think of the rhytym as alternate bars of 4/8 + 5/8,
i.e., eight 1/8 notes (just like you are playing in 4/4 time)
followed by a single 1/8 note.

The chord changes are Bb, Gm and Eb.

I can sing the melody (even though I don't really hear or feel the 5/8
time).

Now, I want to strum the chord changes while singing the melody, but
not sure about the foot tap, chord strumming pattern and which beat
to emphasize.

I think I can make it up to the eighth note OK but then the final 1/8
note of the 5/8 bar throws me off.


The chord changes are:

measure 1 (4/8 time): Bb
measure 2 (5/8 time): Bb and then changes to Gm on the fourth beat of
the measure.
measure 3 (4/8 time): Eb on on the first beat of the measure


Measure 1 in 4/8 time:
Bb
Early one morn-

Measure 2 in 5/8 time:
Gm
ing with

Measure 3 in 4/8 time:
Eb
time to kill

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On 08 May 2008, Ravi <Raul . fr emont@gmail . com > wrote in
alt.guitar.beginner:

> The Sting song, "Hung my head" alternates between measures of 4/8
> and 5/8.
>
> * youtube . com /watch?v=jR-MTqOIFzs
...
> Now, I want to strum the chord changes while singing the melody,
> but not sure about the foot tap, chord strumming pattern and
> which beat to emphasize.

I would consider this to be in 9/8 time, with the measure divided up
into 3 groups of 2 beats and 1 group of 3 beats. Tap your foot once for
each group. I don't know the song, but a quick listen in a noisy
environment make me think the band orders the groups 2 + 2 + 3 + 2.

DA! da DA! da DA! da da DA! da

If you live with the rhythm long enough you will learn to feel it.

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On May 8, 7:18 pm, Nil <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast . net > wrote:
> On 08 May 2008, Ravi <Raul . fr em...@gmail . com > wrote in
> alt.guitar.beginner:
>
>
>
> > The Sting song, "Hung my head" alternates between measures of 4/8
> > and 5/8.
>
> > * youtube . com /watch?v=jR-MTqOIFzs
> ...
> > Now, I want to strum the chord changes while singing the melody,
> > but not sure about the foot tap, chord strumming pattern and
> > which beat to emphasize.
>
> I would consider this to be in 9/8 time, with the measure divided up
> into 3 groups of 2 beats and 1 group of 3 beats. Tap your foot once for
> each group. I don't know the song, but a quick listen in a noisy
> environment make me think the band orders the groups 2 + 2 + 3 + 2.
>
> DA! da DA! da DA! da da DA! da
>
> If you live with the rhythm long enough you will learn to feel it.

OK I will try the above and see if I can feel it.

Further song info:

* wapedia.mobi/en/Compound duple metre.

British rock musician Sting uses the 9/8 time signature on his 1996
song "I Hung My Head" from the Mercury Falling album.

He uses it by playing 8 eighth notes (in effect, using a normal 4/4
time signature), just followed by a single eighth note.

Thus, the division becomes: 4/8 + 4/8 + 1/8 = 9/8.

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On 11 May 2008, Ravi <Raul . fr emont@gmail . com > wrote in
alt.guitar.beginner:

> On May 8, 7:18 pm, Nil <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast . net >
> wrote:
>>
>> > * youtube . com /watch?v=jR-MTqOIFzs
>
> Further song info:
>
> * wapedia.mobi/en/Compound_duple_metre.
>
> British rock musician Sting uses the 9/8 time signature on his
> 1996 song "I Hung My Head" from the Mercury Falling album.
>
> He uses it by playing 8 eighth notes (in effect, using a normal
> 4/4 time signature), just followed by a single eighth note.
>
> Thus, the division becomes: 4/8 + 4/8 + 1/8 = 9/8.

I don't like that breakdown. I don't think it's ever good to have
groups of one single beat. It's too short for me to feel well. I'll
always include it with another group to make it a group of two or
three. besides, I don't think that's what they're playing here.

Now that I can hear it in a quiet space, I hear them playing it as:

5 + 2 + 2

You can break the five down anyway you like - I don't hear them
treating it particular way.

Listen to that bass guitar and bass drum. The piano part also breaks it
down explicitly.

I used to practice these kinds of odd rhythms as I ran, one eighth note
per step. It helped me break everything down into sub-groups of 2s and
3s. I'd sync my breathing to the complete pattern or measure (inhale
for 7, 9, 11, whatever beats, exhale for the same.) If the subgroup or
measure was even-numbered, it would repeat starting on the same foot;
if odd-numbered, it would repeat starting on opposite feet. Do that for
40 minutes or so daily and odd rhythms start to feel quite natural.

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

Nil wrote:
> I don't like that breakdown. I don't think it's ever good to have
> groups of one single beat. It's too short for me to feel well. I'll
> always include it with another group to make it a group of two or
> three. besides, I don't think that's what they're playing here.

I agree. I don't know the song at all.
But a measure of 1 beat is awkward.
3+2+2+2 is how a lot of non-symmetrical 9/8
rhythms happen. There's a stock flamenco
rhythm in that form.

Take 5 is 3+2
Money is 3+4 (or 3+2+2)


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
w w w .LumpyMusic . com

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On May 11, 8:58 am, Nil <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast . net > wrote:


>
> I don't like that breakdown. I don't think it's ever good to have
> groups of one single beat. It's too short for me to feel well. I'll
> always include it with another group to make it a group of two or
> three. besides,

How about songs like Pink Floyd's Money in 7/4 time?
Does that feel OK with a single beat?
Sounds like the only way to group that is with a single beat.

123 123 1

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On 13 May 2008, Ravi <Raul . fr emont@gmail . com > wrote in
alt.guitar.beginner:

> How about songs like Pink Floyd's Money in 7/4 time?
> Does that feel OK with a single beat?
> Sounds like the only way to group that is with a single beat.
>
> 123 123 1

I shouldn't have said "(n)ever", because there's always an exception. I
this case, nobody on the record really accents it so that feels clearly
like groups of three and four. I think the sax player is mostly but not
entirely treating like 3 + 4. The drummer seems to be treating it like
8/4 with a dropped beat.

In this case I guess I'd just count seven, it's slow enough that
there's little chance of getting lost - unless the drummer screws up.
He's telegraphing the start of every measure with a prominent bass drum
hit. If I was soloing over it I might phrase it as groups of 3 + 4 or 4
+ 3, for rhythmic variety.

Actually, as I listen to right now, I'm starting to feel it as
alternating measures of 4/4 and 9/8, or even 21/8. That last respects
the thruple/shuffle feel that becomes more explicit during the 4/4
guitar solo. The shuffle is present in the melody all the way through,
even if the other instruments aren't playing it.

Whatever gets you through the song without stepping on the other
players toes and making the composer mad...

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

Ravi wrote:
> On May 11, 8:58 am, Nil <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast . net > wrote:
>
>
>> I don't like that breakdown. I don't think it's ever good to have
>> groups of one single beat. It's too short for me to feel well. I'll
>> always include it with another group to make it a group of two or
>> three. besides,
>
> How about songs like Pink Floyd's Money in 7/4 time?
> Does that feel OK with a single beat?
> Sounds like the only way to group that is with a single beat.
>
> 123 123 1


How about a bar of 4/4 plus a bar of 3/4?

--
Stephen
Ballina, Australia

Re: How to count the 5/8 time in Sting song, "Hung My Head"

On Thu, 08 May 2008 18:21:08 -0700, Ravi wrote:

> The Sting song, "Hung my head" alternates between measures of 4/8 and
> 5/8.
>
> * youtube . com /watch?v=jR-MTqOIFzs
>
>
> People say to think of the rhytym as alternate bars of 4/8 + 5/8, i.e.,
> eight 1/8 notes (just like you are playing in 4/4 time) followed by a
> single 1/8 note.
>
> The chord changes are Bb, Gm and Eb.
>
> I can sing the melody (even though I don't really hear or feel the 5/8
> time).

Stick with it until you can feel the 5/8. Count it 1234512345. The
accents will vary, so the patterns will also. daveA

--
email: darnold4@cox . net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
* w w w .openguitar . com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
* w w w .openguitar . com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold