Music Theory and Ear Training

Music Theory and Ear Training

I got an email from Berkley about some online courses they are
offering.
I am considering taking ear training and music theory courses.

Have any of you taken courses like these?
Do you think it has made a significant impact on your guitar playing
ability?



Thanks
Mike
7th string

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Mike,

I too have been on their email list, and have explored their site
quite a bit. Looks like quality stuff, but I just can't get past
their prices.

There are plenty other places that don't charge nearly that much.
Heck, you could pay for quite a number of privates for that kind of $.

If you decide to do it, be sure and report back to let us know how you
like it.

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Derek wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I too have been on their email list,
> and have explored their site
> quite a bit. Looks like quality
> stuff, but I just can't get past
> their prices.

I think it's also worth considering that
Berk curriculum is very, very highly geared
toward contemporary jazz. Some of the concepts
they teach, some might say overzealously, were
not concepts 50 or so years ago.

Their beginner theory stuff might be more
general. I don't know.


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On 9 May, 21:48, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice,com > wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I too have been on their email list, and have explored their site
> quite a bit. Looks like quality stuff, but I just can't get past
> their prices.
>
> There are plenty other places that don't charge nearly that much.
> Heck, you could pay for quite a number of privates for that kind of $.
>
> If you decide to do it, be sure and report back to let us know how you
> like it.

What's the ballpark figure on their pricing?

I don't have experience with online courses but I generally prefer a
live interactive classroom session.

But then again, that is one of the best music schools in the country.
Maybe it is worth it...

I heard that is difficult to gain formal admission for full time study
to Berklee. You have to have high proficiency on an instrument
and pass an audition. Is that true?

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On Fri, 9 May 2008 23:58:57 -0700 (PDT), Ravi <Raul,fr emont@gmail,com >
wrote:

>On 9 May, 21:48, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice,com > wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> I too have been on their email list, and have explored their site
>> quite a bit. Looks like quality stuff, but I just can't get past
>> their prices.
>>
>> There are plenty other places that don't charge nearly that much.
>> Heck, you could pay for quite a number of privates for that kind of $.
>>
>> If you decide to do it, be sure and report back to let us know how you
>> like it.
>
>What's the ballpark figure on their pricing?
>. . .
$895 for non-credit courses.
$1095 for credit.

Wish I could afford the course, but I will have learn to play better
elsewhere.

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Flamencoman expounded in news:lcpa245bvt3o0njr3klnisn47adlnn4b6a@4ax,com :

> On Fri, 9 May 2008 23:58:57 -0700 (PDT), Ravi <Raul,fr emont@gmail,com >
> wrote:
>
>>On 9 May, 21:48, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice,com > wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I too have been on their email list, and have explored their site
>>> quite a bit. Looks like quality stuff, but I just can't get past
>>> their prices.
>>>
>>> There are plenty other places that don't charge nearly that much.
>>> Heck, you could pay for quite a number of privates for that kind of
$.
>>>
>>> If you decide to do it, be sure and report back to let us know how
you
>>> like it.
>>
>>What's the ballpark figure on their pricing?
>>. . .
> $895 for non-credit courses.
> $1095 for credit.
>
> Wish I could afford the course, but I will have learn to play better
> elsewhere.

Whoa! For that price, you could get 1 year's worth
of local personalized "in person" "instructor lead
training".

Snark.
** Posted from http :// www .teranews,com **

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:04:04 -0400, Charmed Snark <snark@cogeco.ca>
wrote:

>Flamencoman expounded in news:lcpa245bvt3o0njr3klnisn47adlnn4b6a@4ax,com :
>
>> On Fri, 9 May 2008 23:58:57 -0700 (PDT), Ravi <Raul,fr emont@gmail,com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 9 May, 21:48, Derek <de...@ycoaoffice,com > wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I too have been on their email list, and have explored their site
>>>> quite a bit. Looks like quality stuff, but I just can't get past
>>>> their prices.
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty other places that don't charge nearly that much.
>>>> Heck, you could pay for quite a number of privates for that kind of
>$.
>>>>
>>>> If you decide to do it, be sure and report back to let us know how
>you
>>>> like it.
>>>
>>>What's the ballpark figure on their pricing?
>>>. . .
>> $895 for non-credit courses.
>> $1095 for credit.
>>
>> Wish I could afford the course, but I will have learn to play better
>> elsewhere.
>
>Whoa! For that price, you could get 1 year's worth
>of local personalized "in person" "instructor lead
>training".
>
>Snark.
>** Posted from http :// www .teranews,com **


The "in person" instructor can teach great techniques,
and you can learn how it all works.

However,
That is only one side of playing guitar.
We must not only play, but also be able to hear the music we are
making. there is a difference between being able to do the moves
(scales, artificial harmonics, hammer on, bends, slides, all the cool
effects),
and learning what sounds good.

After playing guitar on and off for years
I spent a year intensely with lessons, practice, exercises,learning
all the stuff, my speed improved, and I played much better, yet I
still felt as though my music was rather pathetic, I knew a bunch of
licks. but something just was not there.
My music skills were not setting anyone on fire.
It was all quite boring.

I was fed up with music, and was about to dump it all,
believing In was just another, no talent guitarist.

As a last resort, I gave the courses "perfect pitch and relative
pitch" a try,
Some where in the second week of listening to the classes, my guitar
partners, started asking me "what was I doing, different, lately,
because my playing had improved dramatically".

I am good at acting ignorant, so I told them
As the third week went by , I noticed the other guitarist, were
watching my hands and fingers, trying to figure out what I was doing.

For the first time in my life I able to hear and feel the music, more
than ever before.
My bends were crisp, quick , and right on the note .
My timing improved, It felt as though all those years of playing were
suddenly coming together,

I could really hear the music,
Very pleasant and satisfying.
I could pick up on some songs in minutes, instead of days.
My practice time was starting to reward me with sweet music ,

Instead of a cacophony of technically correct, but dead dry music.
I was cranking out some sweet sounds.

I had learned to hear.
and translate it into sounds.

Some people, already have a well developed ear,
but

those of us that were never taught,
that an A sounds like an "A", and the feel of
5ths , 4ths , thirds, all sound a certain way.
$1000 , might be better spent, training the ear,

At the same time I was listening to Relative pitch
my friend was taking lessons.
(He is the "Uncle Johnny "
That the killers wrote the song Uncle Johnny about.)


Uncle John spent $350 for a months worth of lessons, he improved very
much.
but not as rapidly as I did, and when his series of lessons was
complete , he slid back into his standard out of key playing.
That made everyone sick, w3hen they listen to him play.

Fortunately I did not have to pay a lot of money for the Relative
Pitch classes., because at $800 I would have passed on the training.

Anyway for those who are interested Relative pitch is posted in
alt.binaries.guitar.tab
That is the binary group, associated with the discussion group
alt.guitar.tab

Perfect Pitch will also be posted in the next few days.

I AM NOT saying that learning the theory and technique is not vital
to a guitarist.
I AM saying that you will improve faster, enjoy it more, and start
playing up to the level you deserve, when you can identify the notes
and effects you use , by hearing it ,
add to that some lessons and practice, and you can improve rapidly.
Motivation, to play the same riff over and over until it sounds great.

Put out the effort, and make a quantum leap ahead in guitar skill.
I must thank DERECK for questioning me about this, repeatedly.
He honestly added in his valued opinions, and opened up the process.
He helped me to understand what exactly had happened, and to keep my
perspective clear.
By calmly and sensibly confronting me, at a time when I needed a
steady hand.

I respectfully suggest you consider , whether you are reaching your
music goals, and perhaps maybe take a look at Relative pitch.
Pholtron
(Go-Bot)
<--====-->

All learning -
begins in darknesssssss,
and ends, in the lighttttt.

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Ok, so rather than spend $900 or so on an online course from Berklee.
I settled on a $60 software package from eMedia called EarMaster.

http :// books-videos-music.musiciansfriend,com /product/eMedia-Ear-Master-Pro-CDROM-?sku•0418

I like it so far. I guess I'll see if it has an impact on my guitar
playing over the next few months.


7th string

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On Jul 1, 3:44 pm, 7th string <macoul...@charter,net > wrote:
> Ok, so rather than spend $900 or so on an online course from Berklee.
> I settled on a $60 software package from eMedia called EarMaster.
>
> http :// books-videos-music.musiciansfriend,com /product/eMedia-Ear-Mast...
>
> I like it so far. I guess I'll see if it has an impact on my guitar
> playing over the next few months.
>
> 7th string

========================================================================
The best tools I have found for ear training were at http :// www .guitartabbooks,com
Scott Morris guitar method was amazingly easy to learn from which is
why I suppose his method was given a top rating by Billboard and also
chosen as number one by the Video Professor.
They also sell an amazing ear traing method called "Pure Pitch" and
between Scotts method and that course, I can now learn most anything I
want on my own and dont need to rely on tabs anymore.
Heres the page I got Pure Pitch from:
http :// www .guitartabbooks,com /freelessons/playbyear.htm
and whats cool about it, is you dont have to wait for it once you buy
it, you can download it right away.
I think this is by far the best choice for anyone trying to develop
ultimate musician skills.
Jim

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

jimfjams wrote:

> The best tools I have found for ear training were at
> http :// www .spambooks,com

> the Pure Pitch method is awesome and it really has helped me alot
> you can read more about pure pitch lessons here
> http :// www .spambooks,com /freelessons/playbyear.htm

> Hopefully the guys shutting down tab sites will
> leave all of us alone
> Heres the link to that article and the lessons
> http :// www .spambooks,com /freelessons.htm

> If you want to read more about Spam Whoreus
> DVD Guitar Lessons, you
> can read the lesson descriptions at
> http :// www .spambooks,com

> You can read more about that and see some of
> the scales and leads lessons
> at this link from you can play guitar
> http :// www .spambooks,com /freelessons.htm

etc, etc...


Is it my turn to say -
"Is that you Desi?"


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On 2 Jul, 02:30, jimfjams <jimfj...@yahoo,com > wrote:

> They also sell an amazing ear traing method called "Pure Pitch" and
> between Scotts method and that course, I can now learn most anything I
> want on my own and dont need to rely on tabs anymore.
> Heres the page I got Pure Pitch from: http :// www .guitartabbooks,com /freelessons/playbyear.htm
> and whats cool about it, is you dont have to wait for it once you buy
> it, you can download it right away.
> I think this is by far the best choice for anyone trying to develop
> ultimate musician skills.
> Jim


That's interesting because the write up sounds like a load of bull.
It includes the ubiquitous "learn the secrets" claim.

Is it genuinely that good?

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Ravi wrote:
> I heard that is difficult to gain
> formal admission for full time study
> to Berklee. You have to have high
> proficiency on an instrument
> and pass an audition. Is that true?

Not in the least. Berklee accepts you if
you have the tuition and they have space.
Their theory is "we don't want to refuse
to accept someone who might turn out to
be a fabulous musician".


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Lumpy is right. From what I have heard from both those who have
taught and have studied there, it is not unlike MI in that regard.

If you show up without decent reading chops or other holes in your
ability, you spend a chunk of your time just getting the basics up to
speed, which can be done locally at your community college imo.

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

Derek wrote:
> ... which can be done locally at your community college imo.

I think the local CCs are a great resource.
I've taken classes at local colleges on and off
for years. Since the schools are smaller than
huge universities, you can usually go there
and meet the teacher(s) really simply. They
can help you to know if their class is at
the right level for your current brain-set.

Take a music theory 100 class.
Costs 23 bucks and one night a week
for 9 weeks.

Play in the stage band or sing
in the choir. For you guys that feel like
people hate you because you think you sound
like dylan singing, you can be
in the choir and not have to be
a great solo vocalist. It's a really
good way to learn to sight read since
there's always someone else singing
the correct note and the accompanist
probably is too.

And...there's cute chicks at those colleges!


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www .LumpyMusic,com

Re: Music Theory and Ear Training

On May 10, 6:54 am, "Lumpy" <lu...@digitalcartography,com > wrote:
> Ravi wrote:
> > I heard that is difficult to gain
> > formal admission for full time study
> > to Berklee. You have to have high
> > proficiency on an instrument
> > and pass an audition. Is that true?
>
> Not in the least. Berklee accepts you if
> you have the tuition and they have space.
> Their theory is "we don't want to refuse
> to accept someone who might turn out to
> be a fabulous musician".
>

OK. Maybe I was hearing about scholarship auditions.

Apparently, their policies changed in 2006. Prior to that, only
scholarship students were required to audition.

Now, every single applicant is required to audition (but I would
assume normal auditions would be less rigorous than scholarship
auditions).

http :// www .berklee.edu/about/faq.html

The Audition

Prior to your audition, you will have 15 minutes to warm-up on your
instrument and review the reading material. The audition will be 15-
minutes in length and will consist of the following:

* a prepared piece of your choice
* reading (if you can)
* simple form blues
* an optional improvisation over a standard jazz tune or harmonic
vamp
* melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic ear training exercises

At the discretion of each audition team, technical exercises and/or a
jam with the audition team might be part of your audition.

http :// www .sputnikmusic,com /forums/showthread.php?tT9264

I just finished mine Saturday. I played Paganini's fifth caprice
(Jason Becker's arrangement only without distortion).

Here is my overly detailed audition guideline:

the process:
-wait in a room to get called to the audition
-you are sent to a room to warm up/study the sight reading material
(you are told you have 15 minutes, but it's more like 7).

You are given one sheet which has 5-ish different melodies that
increase in difficulty (they only told me to play the first melody,
after that they wanted me to play the accompanying chords). The melody
itself was no sharps or flats and pretty basic. the chords were jazzy-
ish (7, min7, min7b5, etc.)

-you are then once again rushed to another room to the audition.
- at the audition it was very straight to the point: plug-in, play
your piece right off the bat.
-They then told me to improv over a 1 4 5 in E.
-After that i was expected to improv over 3 random chords (i wasn't
told what they were, it's an ear test i assume).
- then sight reading, this was my worst part as i assume is the case
with most guitarists
-then i played the chord chart they had next
-after that the auditioner played random notes of a random arpeggio
and asked me to play what he played.
-and finally the auditioner clapped rhythms and wanted me to clap them
back

overall/tips:
-the whole process is incredibly rushed, make sure you are as prepared
as possible for everything above before hand.
-don't even bother plugging into an amp at the practice room, it
wastes time
-don't bother practicing your piece in the practice room, it wastes
time (you should have it prepared enough before hand).
-study the melodies like a hawk but make sure you learn the chords for
the melodies and not just the melodies themselves
-my friend had to sing the arpeggio given to him instead of match it
on the instrument, you may also have to do this so be prepared
-to be honest, those pieces are all very cliche` and really really
simple (other than castle dragon). If you expect to get in (and last)
at berklee, you may want to reconsider your song selection.

-keep in mind that Berklee has 1,400 guitarists audition each year and
only 20% get accepted.

So what makes you so special that they should accept you? This is what
you need to keep in mind when auditioning/interviewing.