Add group to favorites
Back to post list
Send new message to group Search:
Post Subject:
Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
(tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
resolve to?
fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
(tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
resolve to?
On 12 May, 12:42, Ravi <Raul . fr em...@gmail . com > wrote:
> The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
> resolve to?
Great question.
There's a lot of info on the history and use of the tritone here:
* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
The interval of a minor 2nd may sound dissonant when both notes are
played together however, a half note step is pretty common as part of
a scale and sounds fine. That said, it's not so common to move from
the root note to a note a half step above it. That occurs in the
Locrian and Phrygian modes which IMO are not melodic in the classical
western sense.
An interesting quote on Wikipedia is: "Any tendency for a tonality to
emerge may be avoided by introducing a note three whole tones distant
from the key note of that tonality". This is like moving from the key
of C major to G major. That would also be like using the C Lydian mode
over a Cmaj7 chord which is acting as the I chord. I believe that is
fairly common in jazz so this may be a rule that need qualifying. If
we keep adding a note one tritone above each new root note, we just
move round the circle of fifths form C to G then D etc.
I don't really have the answer to your question but IMO the tritone is
definately "the special one".
Looking forward to more replies, Cliff
> The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
> resolve to?
Great question.
There's a lot of info on the history and use of the tritone here:
* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
The interval of a minor 2nd may sound dissonant when both notes are
played together however, a half note step is pretty common as part of
a scale and sounds fine. That said, it's not so common to move from
the root note to a note a half step above it. That occurs in the
Locrian and Phrygian modes which IMO are not melodic in the classical
western sense.
An interesting quote on Wikipedia is: "Any tendency for a tonality to
emerge may be avoided by introducing a note three whole tones distant
from the key note of that tonality". This is like moving from the key
of C major to G major. That would also be like using the C Lydian mode
over a Cmaj7 chord which is acting as the I chord. I believe that is
fairly common in jazz so this may be a rule that need qualifying. If
we keep adding a note one tritone above each new root note, we just
move round the circle of fifths form C to G then D etc.
I don't really have the answer to your question but IMO the tritone is
definately "the special one".
Looking forward to more replies, Cliff
Dissonance is in the ear of the hearer. For me, the b5 is part of the
meat of jazz, so I don't hear it as dissonance anymore.
However, when I play it in my rock/pop band, say as a major7#11 chord,
I get all kinds of looks from the others.
If you are playing metal, the b2nd interval is used a bunch,
particularly using phrygian mode.
Think about the blues. A dominant I chord shouldn't work. However,
we have been conditioned over the years to not only accept it, but
really like it.
The blues stay pretty popular, and are a basis for so many other forms
of music.
meat of jazz, so I don't hear it as dissonance anymore.
However, when I play it in my rock/pop band, say as a major7#11 chord,
I get all kinds of looks from the others.
If you are playing metal, the b2nd interval is used a bunch,
particularly using phrygian mode.
Think about the blues. A dominant I chord shouldn't work. However,
we have been conditioned over the years to not only accept it, but
really like it.
The blues stay pretty popular, and are a basis for so many other forms
of music.
Derek wrote:
> The blues stay pretty popular...
That's, of course, because the early
church leaders didn't like the browns.
Lumpy
In Your Ears for 40 Years
w w w .LumpyMusic . com
> The blues stay pretty popular...
That's, of course, because the early
church leaders didn't like the browns.
Lumpy
In Your Ears for 40 Years
w w w .LumpyMusic . com
Lumpy wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>
>
>
>>The blues stay pretty popular...
>>
>>
>
>That's, of course, because the early
>church leaders didn't like the browns.
>
>
>
Not after Model got a hold of them.
>Derek wrote:
>
>
>
>>The blues stay pretty popular...
>>
>>
>
>That's, of course, because the early
>church leaders didn't like the browns.
>
>
>
Not after Model got a hold of them.
On May 12, 6:33 am, Cliff <cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk>
wrote:
> On 12 May, 12:42, Ravi <Raul . fr em...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> > The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> > fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> > To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> > (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> > Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> > And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
> > resolve to?
>
> Great question.
>
> There's a lot of info on the history and use of the tritone here:
>
> * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
>
> The interval of a minor 2nd may sound dissonant when both notes are
> played together however, a half note step is pretty common as part of
> a scale and sounds fine. That said, it's not so common to move from
> the root note to a note a half step above it. That occurs in the
> Locrian and Phrygian modes which IMO are not melodic in the classical
> western sense.
>
Yes, I forgot to mention that I was speaking of harmonic intervals.
I was experimenting with 2 note harmonic intervals.
So say the song is in the key of C Major, that means one is free to
use harmonic intervals from the notes in the C Major scale C D E F G A
B.
The harmonic Minor second interval B-C (third string fourth fret,
second string first fret) sounds very dissonant.
The inversion of the harmonic Minor second interval is the Major
seventh interval C-B.
The harmonic Major seventh interval C-B (fifth string third fret,
second string open) sounds much less dissonant than the harmonic Minor
second interval B-C .
And the first position C Major 7 chord sounds very pleasant.
It is sort of tricky. A chord containing a B and C can sound
dissonant or consonant depending on the voicing.
Maybe it is safe to say that if a song is in the key of C, and it
contains a chord with B and C notes, the B and C notes will be voiced
as a Major seventh interval rather than a Minor second interval.
wrote:
> On 12 May, 12:42, Ravi <Raul . fr em...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> > The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> > fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> > To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> > (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> > Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> > And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to
> > resolve to?
>
> Great question.
>
> There's a lot of info on the history and use of the tritone here:
>
> * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
>
> The interval of a minor 2nd may sound dissonant when both notes are
> played together however, a half note step is pretty common as part of
> a scale and sounds fine. That said, it's not so common to move from
> the root note to a note a half step above it. That occurs in the
> Locrian and Phrygian modes which IMO are not melodic in the classical
> western sense.
>
Yes, I forgot to mention that I was speaking of harmonic intervals.
I was experimenting with 2 note harmonic intervals.
So say the song is in the key of C Major, that means one is free to
use harmonic intervals from the notes in the C Major scale C D E F G A
B.
The harmonic Minor second interval B-C (third string fourth fret,
second string first fret) sounds very dissonant.
The inversion of the harmonic Minor second interval is the Major
seventh interval C-B.
The harmonic Major seventh interval C-B (fifth string third fret,
second string open) sounds much less dissonant than the harmonic Minor
second interval B-C .
And the first position C Major 7 chord sounds very pleasant.
It is sort of tricky. A chord containing a B and C can sound
dissonant or consonant depending on the voicing.
Maybe it is safe to say that if a song is in the key of C, and it
contains a chord with B and C notes, the B and C notes will be voiced
as a Major seventh interval rather than a Minor second interval.
Ravi wrote:
>
> Maybe it is safe to say that if a song is in the key of C, and it
> contains a chord with B and C notes, the B and C notes will be voiced
> as a Major seventh interval rather than a Minor second interval.
>
That reduces the dissonance. Chords are usually voiced to ensure that
two dissonant notes are in different octaves.
Getting back to the tritone, one reason it's always dissonant is that if
you take any root note and add a tritone interval you get a note that is
NOT in the root scale. C to F# is a tritone, and because it's half an
octave (three tones, where an octave is six whole tones) the interval
from F# to C is also a tritone.
Note that the G7 chord, which contains a tritone in C scale notes (B to
F) also contains a note outside the scale of the chord's root note, G.
The B diminished triad (B-D-F) also contains a tritone, which is why it
is mostly used only as a passing chord.
So wherever you have a tritone you're going to get dissonance. It's a
kind of dissonance we are very used to in dominant seventh chords, but
apart from that we don't add tritone intervals to root notes very often.
The tritone is such an integral part of the dominant seventh chord (for
example, G7 in the key of C) that the dom7 can be cut down to the root
and the tritone (G-B-F in this example) and still functions perfectly
well without the fifth (D).
--
Stephen
Ballina, Australia
>
> Maybe it is safe to say that if a song is in the key of C, and it
> contains a chord with B and C notes, the B and C notes will be voiced
> as a Major seventh interval rather than a Minor second interval.
>
That reduces the dissonance. Chords are usually voiced to ensure that
two dissonant notes are in different octaves.
Getting back to the tritone, one reason it's always dissonant is that if
you take any root note and add a tritone interval you get a note that is
NOT in the root scale. C to F# is a tritone, and because it's half an
octave (three tones, where an octave is six whole tones) the interval
from F# to C is also a tritone.
Note that the G7 chord, which contains a tritone in C scale notes (B to
F) also contains a note outside the scale of the chord's root note, G.
The B diminished triad (B-D-F) also contains a tritone, which is why it
is mostly used only as a passing chord.
So wherever you have a tritone you're going to get dissonance. It's a
kind of dissonance we are very used to in dominant seventh chords, but
apart from that we don't add tritone intervals to root notes very often.
The tritone is such an integral part of the dominant seventh chord (for
example, G7 in the key of C) that the dom7 can be cut down to the root
and the tritone (G-B-F in this example) and still functions perfectly
well without the fifth (D).
--
Stephen
Ballina, Australia
Ravi wrote:
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
One reason is that it's the exact center of the octave.
It's as "far away" from octave/unison as you can get.
Another reason is that it occurrs in the V7 chord.
G7 = B G B D F. The B to F interval is a tritone.
The G7 wants to resolve to C (C E G) by contracting
a half step from each note. B moves up to C, F moves
down to E. V resolves to I because of the tense
tritone, OR the tritone is tense because of the
V to I resolution.
Another reason is that historically, the church
didn't like the interval a few hundred years ago.
It had little to do with music. The head preacher
guy of the day just decided "God doesn't dig tritones".
> And where does the ascending minor
> second interval C-C# want to
> resolve to?
A minor 2nd, by itself, isolated, without
any kind of key/context, probably doesn't
want to resolve anywhere. It might want
to resolve right back down to the unison
(Jaws theme).
Once given the context of a key center,
an ascending MELODIC interval (one note
at a time) probably wants to resolve OUT
(to a Maj 2nd) if that "resolved note" is
a note in the next chord.
If it's a HARMONIC interval (two notes
at the same time) it might be more likely
to resolve in either direction, OUT or IN.
Two contrasting examples/rule breaks...
Key of D. Play a D chord, then a Dsus4.
That suspended 4th is a minor 2nd above the
3rd. It almost always resolves back down to
the 3rd. Formula, James Taylor.
Now play a D chord, then a D with an augmented
5th (Daug or D(#5)). This time the m2 interval
(5 to #5) wants to resolve OUT to the B note
of the ii or the IV chord.
In the D/Dsus example, the HARMONY doesn't change.
It stays on a D chord. So the closest resolved
note from the minor 2nd is right back down to
the unison note.
In the other example, the HARMONY changes. After
the tense interval, it moves to the ii or IV chord
instead of staying on the I. When that happens, the
tense interval can resolve OUT and move a half step
to a chord tone.
It always wants to lead to a chord tone or a
more resolved note.
In context of a song, consider John Lennon's
D Daug D6 Daug
Our life, together, is so special, to_gether, we have
D A D A
Grown...We have Gro__wn
There's the m2 interval ascending first, then
descending on the way back down. It travels
in the direction it started. If it started as
an ascending interval, it continues to ascend
till it hits a note more consonant with the
chord.
In any/every case, the less resolved intervals
are always wanting to move in the direction of
being resolved.
Lumpy
In Your Ears for 40 Years
w w w .LumpyMusic . com
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
One reason is that it's the exact center of the octave.
It's as "far away" from octave/unison as you can get.
Another reason is that it occurrs in the V7 chord.
G7 = B G B D F. The B to F interval is a tritone.
The G7 wants to resolve to C (C E G) by contracting
a half step from each note. B moves up to C, F moves
down to E. V resolves to I because of the tense
tritone, OR the tritone is tense because of the
V to I resolution.
Another reason is that historically, the church
didn't like the interval a few hundred years ago.
It had little to do with music. The head preacher
guy of the day just decided "God doesn't dig tritones".
> And where does the ascending minor
> second interval C-C# want to
> resolve to?
A minor 2nd, by itself, isolated, without
any kind of key/context, probably doesn't
want to resolve anywhere. It might want
to resolve right back down to the unison
(Jaws theme).
Once given the context of a key center,
an ascending MELODIC interval (one note
at a time) probably wants to resolve OUT
(to a Maj 2nd) if that "resolved note" is
a note in the next chord.
If it's a HARMONIC interval (two notes
at the same time) it might be more likely
to resolve in either direction, OUT or IN.
Two contrasting examples/rule breaks...
Key of D. Play a D chord, then a Dsus4.
That suspended 4th is a minor 2nd above the
3rd. It almost always resolves back down to
the 3rd. Formula, James Taylor.
Now play a D chord, then a D with an augmented
5th (Daug or D(#5)). This time the m2 interval
(5 to #5) wants to resolve OUT to the B note
of the ii or the IV chord.
In the D/Dsus example, the HARMONY doesn't change.
It stays on a D chord. So the closest resolved
note from the minor 2nd is right back down to
the unison note.
In the other example, the HARMONY changes. After
the tense interval, it moves to the ii or IV chord
instead of staying on the I. When that happens, the
tense interval can resolve OUT and move a half step
to a chord tone.
It always wants to lead to a chord tone or a
more resolved note.
In context of a song, consider John Lennon's
D Daug D6 Daug
Our life, together, is so special, to_gether, we have
D A D A
Grown...We have Gro__wn
There's the m2 interval ascending first, then
descending on the way back down. It travels
in the direction it started. If it started as
an ascending interval, it continues to ascend
till it hits a note more consonant with the
chord.
In any/every case, the less resolved intervals
are always wanting to move in the direction of
being resolved.
Lumpy
In Your Ears for 40 Years
w w w .LumpyMusic . com
On Mon, 12 May 2008 04:42:12 -0700, Ravi wrote:
> The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to resolve
> to?
It is most useful to define dissonance as something that doesn't sound
right when you end on it. The aug4/dim5 has strong tendencies to resolve
to the relatively much more consonant intervals close to it. the thirds
and sixths. A popular theory is that the thing that makes the tritone so
dissonant is that it is right between the perfect 4th and 5th.
--
email: darnold4@cox . net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
* w w w .openguitar . com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
* w w w .openguitar . com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold
> The ascending minor second interval C-C#, (e.g., third string fifth
> fret, second string second fret) sounds dissonant.
>
> To me, it sounds more dissonant than the ascending interval C-F#
> (tritone, which wants to resolve to the G note).
>
> Why is the tritone considered the most dissonant interval?
>
> And where does the ascending minor second interval C-C# want to resolve
> to?
It is most useful to define dissonance as something that doesn't sound
right when you end on it. The aug4/dim5 has strong tendencies to resolve
to the relatively much more consonant intervals close to it. the thirds
and sixths. A popular theory is that the thing that makes the tritone so
dissonant is that it is right between the perfect 4th and 5th.
--
email: darnold4@cox . net (put "poisonal" anywhere in subject)
DGT: The very best technical exercises for all guitarists:
* w w w .openguitar . com /dynamic.html. Original easy solos at:
* w w w .openguitar . com . :::=={_o) David Raleigh Arnold
