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Jamming vs Working
This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
Anyway, here's the post.
Looking To Work v.s. Looking To Jam
This is an important distinction, and seems to be confused very often
here in the Valley by some of the local musicians.
Looking To Jam - I need to rehearse for the next three to six months to
gain the skills I need to play the material.
Looking To Work - Audition me, if we're compatible then give me your set
lists, a couple weeks to memorize them and one or two rehearsals, and
then let's start playing jobs.
Looking To Jam - I don't want to drive outside of my local community to
meet anyone more than 20 minutes distance by car, unless it's to go
watch a band.
Looking To Work - I realize that driving is a requirement of being in a
band, I'll invest in the fuel cost to make a couple rehearsals and
recoup it when I show up on the gigs in the areas we agreed to work at.
Looking To Jam - I don't want to play unless we do my song list.
Looking To Work - unless there's a salary being paid or an established
name/existing band being promoted, we'll compromise in choosing the
songs that suit the lead singer(s) and the venue(s).
Looking To Jam - I run the same ad year after year, misusing all the
jobbing musician buzzwords, making all the same mistakes in the process
and failing to improve my craft while I'm at it.
Looking To Work - (looks up) try being a roadie for a local working
band, get used to seeing how it's done right and then approach the idea
again.
There's nothing wrong with just getting together to jam for fun. It
becomes wrong when you present yourself as someone who's "looking to
work" in order to attract jobbing musicians for your rehearsal room band.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
Anyway, here's the post.
Looking To Work v.s. Looking To Jam
This is an important distinction, and seems to be confused very often
here in the Valley by some of the local musicians.
Looking To Jam - I need to rehearse for the next three to six months to
gain the skills I need to play the material.
Looking To Work - Audition me, if we're compatible then give me your set
lists, a couple weeks to memorize them and one or two rehearsals, and
then let's start playing jobs.
Looking To Jam - I don't want to drive outside of my local community to
meet anyone more than 20 minutes distance by car, unless it's to go
watch a band.
Looking To Work - I realize that driving is a requirement of being in a
band, I'll invest in the fuel cost to make a couple rehearsals and
recoup it when I show up on the gigs in the areas we agreed to work at.
Looking To Jam - I don't want to play unless we do my song list.
Looking To Work - unless there's a salary being paid or an established
name/existing band being promoted, we'll compromise in choosing the
songs that suit the lead singer(s) and the venue(s).
Looking To Jam - I run the same ad year after year, misusing all the
jobbing musician buzzwords, making all the same mistakes in the process
and failing to improve my craft while I'm at it.
Looking To Work - (looks up) try being a roadie for a local working
band, get used to seeing how it's done right and then approach the idea
again.
There's nothing wrong with just getting together to jam for fun. It
becomes wrong when you present yourself as someone who's "looking to
work" in order to attract jobbing musicians for your rehearsal room band.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
twice per weeK) before they are ready.
I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy
ones own ego.
Pt
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
twice per weeK) before they are ready.
I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy
ones own ego.
Pt
> I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy ones own ego.
I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
probably right that it could take months for several components of a
band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
fuss.
I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
probably right that it could take months for several components of a
band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
fuss.
On Apr 30, 4:34 pm, iarwain <iarwai...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> > I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy ones=
own ego.
>
> I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
> probably right that it could take months for several components of a
> band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
> be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
> fuss.
If you are talking about 12 bar blues songs, songs with no hooks, no
modulations and simple progressions...yes.
Pt
> > I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy ones=
own ego.
>
> I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
> probably right that it could take months for several components of a
> band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
> be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
> fuss.
If you are talking about 12 bar blues songs, songs with no hooks, no
modulations and simple progressions...yes.
Pt
On Apr 30, 2:39 pm, Pt <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote:
> On Apr 30, 4:34 pm, iarwain <iarwai...@hotmail . com > wrote:
>
> > > I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy ones own ego.
>
> > I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
> > probably right that it could take months for several components of a
> > band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
> > be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
> > fuss.
>
> If you are talking about 12 bar blues songs, songs with no hooks, no
> modulations and simple progressions...yes.
>
> Pt
Greetings all. Hi Pt.
Although I can see how your response to my posting would fit a good
number of situations, I don't think it's an all-inclusive statement.
I know a handful of bass players who've worked steadily for 15, 20, 25
and even 30 years in specific types of cover bands (21 years,
myself). It was the sharing of our recent experiences with local
auditions that inspired me to write that post.
And, the kind of groups we auditioned for were your typical local
small bar/club/pub cover bands...not a cruise, casino or Vegas show
band that follows a script, runs through medleys or requires more than
simply being ready for the next number or chart. And certainly not an
original act where exact reproduction of entire arrangements is
expected.
We don't claim to be able to play "anything", but for the specific
genres of music that we have regularly performed with various groups
over (as an example) two thousand gigs' time (100 gigs a year x 20
years) we do develop both the eye and ear for stage cues and the
ability to learn quickly those songs not already in our repertoires.
In these types of situations, with one or two rehearsals we can get
the gist of what the leader wants in terms of dynamics by running
through their personal song arrangement twice or by learning the way
they signal them.
The scene for which that ad was written is mainly a classic rock,
blues and traditional country "standards" cover scene where people
routinely post ads looking for players to form "working" bar bands
from scratch. Very often these people aren't prepared themselves when
they audition you....they lack a knowledge of the material, the
technical skill and even the proper equipment to perform it....yet
claim to be professional working musicians (false advertising, in
spirit at least).
So the posting was meant to address the growing number of people
(hobbyists, at best) posting their ads with all the buzzwords to
attract jobbing musicians ("working", "professional", "top notch",
"gigs pending", etc.) to join them....not for working anytime soon but
to sit through 40-50 rehearsals until they figure out how to play
their parts because they themselves are not used to playing out in a
cover band.
There is no doubt that rehearsing steadily can only benefit a group,
and in many situations it's the only way a quality product will be
achieved. However for the old school working musician with a vast
amount of experience, asking for 42 unpaid rehearsals to review such
songs "Brick House" or "The Fireman" or "Sweet Home Alabama" or "Rocky
Mountain Way" is unnecessary. All that's required is working out
beginnings, endings and any desired changes, and this can be achieved
in a couple run throughs.
Best regards,
Scott
> On Apr 30, 4:34 pm, iarwain <iarwai...@hotmail . com > wrote:
>
> > > I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy ones own ego.
>
> > I think the point was more to satisfy one's own wallet. You're
> > probably right that it could take months for several components of a
> > band to get ready to play out. But an experienced bass player should
> > be able to step into a band playing popular songs without that much
> > fuss.
>
> If you are talking about 12 bar blues songs, songs with no hooks, no
> modulations and simple progressions...yes.
>
> Pt
Greetings all. Hi Pt.
Although I can see how your response to my posting would fit a good
number of situations, I don't think it's an all-inclusive statement.
I know a handful of bass players who've worked steadily for 15, 20, 25
and even 30 years in specific types of cover bands (21 years,
myself). It was the sharing of our recent experiences with local
auditions that inspired me to write that post.
And, the kind of groups we auditioned for were your typical local
small bar/club/pub cover bands...not a cruise, casino or Vegas show
band that follows a script, runs through medleys or requires more than
simply being ready for the next number or chart. And certainly not an
original act where exact reproduction of entire arrangements is
expected.
We don't claim to be able to play "anything", but for the specific
genres of music that we have regularly performed with various groups
over (as an example) two thousand gigs' time (100 gigs a year x 20
years) we do develop both the eye and ear for stage cues and the
ability to learn quickly those songs not already in our repertoires.
In these types of situations, with one or two rehearsals we can get
the gist of what the leader wants in terms of dynamics by running
through their personal song arrangement twice or by learning the way
they signal them.
The scene for which that ad was written is mainly a classic rock,
blues and traditional country "standards" cover scene where people
routinely post ads looking for players to form "working" bar bands
from scratch. Very often these people aren't prepared themselves when
they audition you....they lack a knowledge of the material, the
technical skill and even the proper equipment to perform it....yet
claim to be professional working musicians (false advertising, in
spirit at least).
So the posting was meant to address the growing number of people
(hobbyists, at best) posting their ads with all the buzzwords to
attract jobbing musicians ("working", "professional", "top notch",
"gigs pending", etc.) to join them....not for working anytime soon but
to sit through 40-50 rehearsals until they figure out how to play
their parts because they themselves are not used to playing out in a
cover band.
There is no doubt that rehearsing steadily can only benefit a group,
and in many situations it's the only way a quality product will be
achieved. However for the old school working musician with a vast
amount of experience, asking for 42 unpaid rehearsals to review such
songs "Brick House" or "The Fireman" or "Sweet Home Alabama" or "Rocky
Mountain Way" is unnecessary. All that's required is working out
beginnings, endings and any desired changes, and this can be achieved
in a couple run throughs.
Best regards,
Scott
Pt <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote:
> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
If you're talking about original material, with development of
arrangements and a very high level excellence of product then yes,
you're probably right.
If you're talking about a covers band playing known tunes, especially
where there are charts and recordings available, then 6 months is
overkill. Especially if one is specifically asking for people with
experience with that material.
For a start up covers band, rehearsals 2 x a week for a period would be
reasonable - but not indefinitely as this ad as described seems to
imply.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
* w w w .manyhands.co.nz/
> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
If you're talking about original material, with development of
arrangements and a very high level excellence of product then yes,
you're probably right.
If you're talking about a covers band playing known tunes, especially
where there are charts and recordings available, then 6 months is
overkill. Especially if one is specifically asking for people with
experience with that material.
For a start up covers band, rehearsals 2 x a week for a period would be
reasonable - but not indefinitely as this ad as described seems to
imply.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
* w w w .manyhands.co.nz/
Derek Tearne wrote:
> Pt <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
>> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
>> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> If you're talking about original material, with development of
> arrangements and a very high level excellence of product then yes,
> you're probably right.
Yep.
> If you're talking about a covers band playing known tunes, especially
> where there are charts and recordings available, then 6 months is
> overkill. Especially if one is specifically asking for people with
> experience with that material.
>
> For a start up covers band, rehearsals 2 x a week for a period would be
> reasonable - but not indefinitely as this ad as described seems to
> imply.
That's pretty much the same thing I told the guy in our discussion. But
quite frankly if the arrangements were faithful to the originals, I'd
make better use of the second night working on the tunes by myself and
simply tweaking them one night per week.
However, if the band does all sorts of funky stuff to the songs, then,
yeh, it needs more work. That said, I'd get up to speed quicker with
some recordings of the band's versions along with some notes than I
would sitting in rehearsals twice per week.
> Pt <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
>> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
>> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> If you're talking about original material, with development of
> arrangements and a very high level excellence of product then yes,
> you're probably right.
Yep.
> If you're talking about a covers band playing known tunes, especially
> where there are charts and recordings available, then 6 months is
> overkill. Especially if one is specifically asking for people with
> experience with that material.
>
> For a start up covers band, rehearsals 2 x a week for a period would be
> reasonable - but not indefinitely as this ad as described seems to
> imply.
That's pretty much the same thing I told the guy in our discussion. But
quite frankly if the arrangements were faithful to the originals, I'd
make better use of the second night working on the tunes by myself and
simply tweaking them one night per week.
However, if the band does all sorts of funky stuff to the songs, then,
yeh, it needs more work. That said, I'd get up to speed quicker with
some recordings of the band's versions along with some notes than I
would sitting in rehearsals twice per week.
Huh?
Inherent in a "good" band would be the assumption that the musicians are all
experienced and are familiar with the mostly popular tunes of the genre.
In other words, it shouldn't take any longer to rehearse say, "Brown Eyed
Girl" than they first time you play it down as a group.
The only "Pro" bands I've been in that took any longer than a month to book
a gig were
a) Original bands that were starting from ground zero
b) "development" gigs, where you are babysitting an inexperienced artist and
testing new material.
c) Anal retentive bandleaders who insist that everything be "like the
record" and spend hours obsessing over minute vocal harmonies and fills. The
band would typically play one or 2 gigs and break up, because the life had
been sucked out of the project months ago.
d) Guys (usually singers) who are into the whole "band as a family" thing
and want to spend their off time jamming with their "buds".
Other than that, I can't think of Any situation where it should take
professionals with a stable lineup more than a month to have 3 sets of
commercial tunes in any genre polished and ready to go. 2 weeks is probably
more like it.
"Pt" <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
twice per weeK) before they are ready.
I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy
ones own ego.
Pt
Inherent in a "good" band would be the assumption that the musicians are all
experienced and are familiar with the mostly popular tunes of the genre.
In other words, it shouldn't take any longer to rehearse say, "Brown Eyed
Girl" than they first time you play it down as a group.
The only "Pro" bands I've been in that took any longer than a month to book
a gig were
a) Original bands that were starting from ground zero
b) "development" gigs, where you are babysitting an inexperienced artist and
testing new material.
c) Anal retentive bandleaders who insist that everything be "like the
record" and spend hours obsessing over minute vocal harmonies and fills. The
band would typically play one or 2 gigs and break up, because the life had
been sucked out of the project months ago.
d) Guys (usually singers) who are into the whole "band as a family" thing
and want to spend their off time jamming with their "buds".
Other than that, I can't think of Any situation where it should take
professionals with a stable lineup more than a month to have 3 sets of
commercial tunes in any genre polished and ready to go. 2 weeks is probably
more like it.
"Pt" <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
twice per weeK) before they are ready.
I don't believe in going up there and just blowing notes to satisfy
ones own ego.
Pt
"js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> Other than that, I can't think of Any situation where it should take
> professionals with a stable lineup more than a month to have 3 sets of
> commercial tunes in any genre polished and ready to go. 2 weeks is probably
> more like it.
I'm not disagreeing, but it would be worth pointing out that
professionals about to go on a major tour of original music with novel
arrangements might spend 2 weeks of full time rehearsal - which,
assuming an 8 hour day, is around 100 hours of rehearsal - which is 4
months of twice a week evening rehearsal or 'between 6 months and a
year' for once a week rehearsal.
So maybe we're all almost saying the same thing.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
* w w w .manyhands.co.nz/
> Other than that, I can't think of Any situation where it should take
> professionals with a stable lineup more than a month to have 3 sets of
> commercial tunes in any genre polished and ready to go. 2 weeks is probably
> more like it.
I'm not disagreeing, but it would be worth pointing out that
professionals about to go on a major tour of original music with novel
arrangements might spend 2 weeks of full time rehearsal - which,
assuming an 8 hour day, is around 100 hours of rehearsal - which is 4
months of twice a week evening rehearsal or 'between 6 months and a
year' for once a week rehearsal.
So maybe we're all almost saying the same thing.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
* w w w .manyhands.co.nz/
"Pt" <peatea@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
twice per weeK) before they are ready.
I disagree.
Gerry
On Apr 30, 9:15 pm, "pTooner" <some...@onthe . net > wrote:
> "Pt" <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote in message
>
> news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
> On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>
> > This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> > kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> > wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> > experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> > that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> > I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> > doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> I disagree.
>
> Gerry
What situations (experience levels, material, venues) are you
referring to? All of them?
> "Pt" <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote in message
>
> news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
> On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>
> > This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> > kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> > wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> > experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> > that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> > I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> > doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> I disagree.
>
> Gerry
What situations (experience levels, material, venues) are you
referring to? All of them?
"Fender Bassist" <fenderbassist@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:260cad62-6b27-4f5b-a9ec-151302f915b5@u36g2000prf.googlegroups . com ...
> On Apr 30, 9:15 pm, "pTooner" <some...@onthe . net > wrote:
>> "Pt" <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote in message
>>
>> news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
>> On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>>
>> > This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
>> > kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
>> > wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
>> > experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
>> > that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>>
>> > I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
>> > doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>>
>> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
>> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> Gerry
>
> What situations (experience levels, material, venues) are you
> referring to? All of them?
>
In my opinion, there are only two types of bands that require extensive
rehearsals. That is garage bands who will probably never play any paying
gigs and "projects" where they are trying to produce a note perfect one hour
show usually to back up some young singer. Otherwise, 90% plus of local
projects are made up primarily of experienced players who can walk in to any
job and handle it. I was amazed recently to see an old and mostly retired
friend playing bass at a country show. I was amazed because he's around 70
and a keyboard player converted from guitar about 40 years ago. I have
never known him previously to play bass. I've also never know him to play
country. His explanation was that it was a last minute call from a friend
who couldn't make it. The moral is that a pro player will always get the
job done one way or another. My friend was probably not as good a bass
player as I am, but he did a decent job.
Gerry
On Apr 30, 9:38 pm, "pTooner" <some...@onthe . net > wrote:
> "Fender Bassist" <fenderbass...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:260cad62-6b27-4f5b-a9ec-151302f915b5@u36g2000prf.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > On Apr 30, 9:15 pm, "pTooner" <some...@onthe . net > wrote:
> >> "Pt" <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote in message
>
> >>news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
> >> On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>
> >> > This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> >> > kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> >> > wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> >> > experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> >> > that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> >> > I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> >> > doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> >> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> >> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> >> I disagree.
>
> >> Gerry
>
> > What situations (experience levels, material, venues) are you
> > referring to? All of them?
>
> In my opinion, there are only two types of bands that require extensive
> rehearsals. That is garage bands who will probably never play any paying
> gigs and "projects" where they are trying to produce a note perfect one hour
> show usually to back up some young singer. Otherwise, 90% plus of local
> projects are made up primarily of experienced players who can walk in to any
> job and handle it. I was amazed recently to see an old and mostly retired
> friend playing bass at a country show. I was amazed because he's around 70
> and a keyboard player converted from guitar about 40 years ago. I have
> never known him previously to play bass. I've also never know him to play
> country. His explanation was that it was a last minute call from a friend
> who couldn't make it. The moral is that a pro player will always get the
> job done one way or another. My friend was probably not as good a bass
> player as I am, but he did a decent job.
>
> Gerry
Completely agree.
Scott
> "Fender Bassist" <fenderbass...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:260cad62-6b27-4f5b-a9ec-151302f915b5@u36g2000prf.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > On Apr 30, 9:15 pm, "pTooner" <some...@onthe . net > wrote:
> >> "Pt" <pea...@yahoo . com > wrote in message
>
> >>news:f88363eb-aaf0-40bb-9bda-643866433a40@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
> >> On Apr 30, 3:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>
> >> > This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> >> > kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> >> > wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> >> > experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> >> > that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> >> > I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> >> > doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> >> A typical good band takes 6 months to a year of rehearsing (sometimes
> >> twice per weeK) before they are ready.
>
> >> I disagree.
>
> >> Gerry
>
> > What situations (experience levels, material, venues) are you
> > referring to? All of them?
>
> In my opinion, there are only two types of bands that require extensive
> rehearsals. That is garage bands who will probably never play any paying
> gigs and "projects" where they are trying to produce a note perfect one hour
> show usually to back up some young singer. Otherwise, 90% plus of local
> projects are made up primarily of experienced players who can walk in to any
> job and handle it. I was amazed recently to see an old and mostly retired
> friend playing bass at a country show. I was amazed because he's around 70
> and a keyboard player converted from guitar about 40 years ago. I have
> never known him previously to play bass. I've also never know him to play
> country. His explanation was that it was a last minute call from a friend
> who couldn't make it. The moral is that a pro player will always get the
> job done one way or another. My friend was probably not as good a bass
> player as I am, but he did a decent job.
>
> Gerry
Completely agree.
Scott
On Apr 30, 4:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> Anyway, here's the post.
>
> Looking To Work v.s. Looking To Jam
>
> This is an important distinction, and seems to be confused very often
> here in the Valley by some of the local musicians.
>
> Looking To Jam - I need to rehearse for the next three to six months to
> gain the skills I need to play the material.
>
> Looking To Work - Audition me, if we're compatible then give me your set
> lists, a couple weeks to memorize them and one or two rehearsals, and
> then let's start playing jobs.
>
> Looking To Jam - I don't want to drive outside of my local community to
> meet anyone more than 20 minutes distance by car, unless it's to go
> watch a band.
>
> Looking To Work - I realize that driving is a requirement of being in a
> band, I'll invest in the fuel cost to make a couple rehearsals and
> recoup it when I show up on the gigs in the areas we agreed to work at.
>
> Looking To Jam - I don't want to play unless we do my song list.
>
> Looking To Work - unless there's a salary being paid or an established
> name/existing band being promoted, we'll compromise in choosing the
> songs that suit the lead singer(s) and the venue(s).
>
> Looking To Jam - I run the same ad year after year, misusing all the
> jobbing musician buzzwords, making all the same mistakes in the process
> and failing to improve my craft while I'm at it.
>
> Looking To Work - (looks up) try being a roadie for a local working
> band, get used to seeing how it's done right and then approach the idea
> again.
>
> There's nothing wrong with just getting together to jam for fun. It
> becomes wrong when you present yourself as someone who's "looking to
> work" in order to attract jobbing musicians for your rehearsal room band.
>
> --
> Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
> - Anonymous
Oh god how I hate the "lets just jam" guys. Let's just jam is wanker-
speak for " I don't know or didn't bother to learn any of the songs I
was supposed to have ready for my audition, but I thought i'd come
waste your time anyway".
> This was in a local Craigslist ad. I thought it was pretty spot-on. It
> kinda ties into an e-mail discussion I had recently with a guy who
> wanted a talented bass player in his 30s or older who had cover band
> experience to play in his '70s classic rock band. So far so good except
> that you had to be willing to practice two times per week.
>
> I tried to explain to him that somebody with those qualifications
> doesn't need to practice 2X per week. I don't think he ever got it.
>
> Anyway, here's the post.
>
> Looking To Work v.s. Looking To Jam
>
> This is an important distinction, and seems to be confused very often
> here in the Valley by some of the local musicians.
>
> Looking To Jam - I need to rehearse for the next three to six months to
> gain the skills I need to play the material.
>
> Looking To Work - Audition me, if we're compatible then give me your set
> lists, a couple weeks to memorize them and one or two rehearsals, and
> then let's start playing jobs.
>
> Looking To Jam - I don't want to drive outside of my local community to
> meet anyone more than 20 minutes distance by car, unless it's to go
> watch a band.
>
> Looking To Work - I realize that driving is a requirement of being in a
> band, I'll invest in the fuel cost to make a couple rehearsals and
> recoup it when I show up on the gigs in the areas we agreed to work at.
>
> Looking To Jam - I don't want to play unless we do my song list.
>
> Looking To Work - unless there's a salary being paid or an established
> name/existing band being promoted, we'll compromise in choosing the
> songs that suit the lead singer(s) and the venue(s).
>
> Looking To Jam - I run the same ad year after year, misusing all the
> jobbing musician buzzwords, making all the same mistakes in the process
> and failing to improve my craft while I'm at it.
>
> Looking To Work - (looks up) try being a roadie for a local working
> band, get used to seeing how it's done right and then approach the idea
> again.
>
> There's nothing wrong with just getting together to jam for fun. It
> becomes wrong when you present yourself as someone who's "looking to
> work" in order to attract jobbing musicians for your rehearsal room band.
>
> --
> Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
> - Anonymous
Oh god how I hate the "lets just jam" guys. Let's just jam is wanker-
speak for " I don't know or didn't bother to learn any of the songs I
was supposed to have ready for my audition, but I thought i'd come
waste your time anyway".
"handgunner" <handgunner@cox . net > wrote in message
news:ab00f30a-211e-4760-8b7d-ec94a78218a9@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups . com ...
> On Apr 30, 4:56 pm, Jim Carr <newsgro...@azwebpages . com > wrote:
>
> Oh god how I hate the "lets just jam" guys. Let's just jam is wanker-
> speak for " I don't know or didn't bother to learn any of the songs I
> was supposed to have ready for my audition, but I thought i'd come
> waste your time anyway".
This is why I quit my previous band. They just wanted to get together and
jam. At my last practice with them, they stood around and asked, "What do
you want to play?". "I don't know what do YOU want to play?" We wasted a
few hours farting around when we could have at least tried out new songs or
arrangements or worked out the rough spots.
I have been told at work to never call a meeting unless you have a written
agenda. I tried to convince them to get a list of songs together that we
needed to work on. It worked for 1 practice then reverted to "What do you
want to play?..........."
My time is too valuable to be wasted on lack of direction or decisiveness.
-DA
