You know what I hate about subbing in?

Learning a bunch of songs that you don't end up playing!

Twice this week I've subbed in on a gig with short notice.
"it's all songs you know...no problem"
I get the song list for this weekend's gig, and I don't even recognize the
names of the songs. Any songs I do recognize aren't the versions I know.

Earlier in the week I sub in for an original act. I work hard charting 2
cd's worth of stuff, and then memorizing them so I don't have piles of
papers on stage.

Both bands played barely any of the songs they gave me to learn.
The original band played 2 songs off their new cd, and a handful of ones
from another. Then they just called out stuff on the fly.

Last night the band deviated from the set list they gave me and either
scratched some songs 'cause the singer couldn't find her lyrics, or they
transposed the songs to a singer friendly key.

Just once I'd like to sub in a band that gives me a list of songs that they
WILL ACTUALLY PLAY in the keys they play them in.

Jay S

"J Stevens" <IdontLikeSpamjay-stevens@telus.netspamsucksass> wrote in
message news:tCnVj.1871$KB3.644@edtnps91...
> Learning a bunch of songs that you don't end up playing!
>
> Twice this week I've subbed in on a gig with short notice.
> "it's all songs you know...no problem"
> I get the song list for this weekend's gig, and I don't even recognize the
> names of the songs. Any songs I do recognize aren't the versions I know.
>
> Earlier in the week I sub in for an original act. I work hard charting 2
> cd's worth of stuff, and then memorizing them so I don't have piles of
> papers on stage.
>
> Both bands played barely any of the songs they gave me to learn.
> The original band played 2 songs off their new cd, and a handful of ones
> from another. Then they just called out stuff on the fly.
>
> Last night the band deviated from the set list they gave me and either
> scratched some songs 'cause the singer couldn't find her lyrics, or they
> transposed the songs to a singer friendly key.
>
> Just once I'd like to sub in a band that gives me a list of songs that
> they WILL ACTUALLY PLAY in the keys they play them in.
>
> Jay S
>


You need to get yourself something to keep right on top of your amp for
situations like that:

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver

Accessories make life so much easier for musicians.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "J Stevens" <IdontLikeSpamjay-stevens@telus.netspamsucksass> wrote in
> message news:tCnVj.1871$KB3.644@edtnps91...
>> Learning a bunch of songs that you don't end up playing!
>>
>> Twice this week I've subbed in on a gig with short notice.
>> "it's all songs you know...no problem"
>> I get the song list for this weekend's gig, and I don't even recognize the
>> names of the songs. Any songs I do recognize aren't the versions I know.
>>
>> Earlier in the week I sub in for an original act. I work hard charting 2
>> cd's worth of stuff, and then memorizing them so I don't have piles of
>> papers on stage.
>>
>> Both bands played barely any of the songs they gave me to learn.
>> The original band played 2 songs off their new cd, and a handful of ones
>> from another. Then they just called out stuff on the fly.
>>
>> Last night the band deviated from the set list they gave me and either
>> scratched some songs 'cause the singer couldn't find her lyrics, or they
>> transposed the songs to a singer friendly key.
>>
>> Just once I'd like to sub in a band that gives me a list of songs that
>> they WILL ACTUALLY PLAY in the keys they play them in.
>>
>> Jay S
>>
>
>
> You need to get yourself something to keep right on top of your amp for
> situations like that:
>
> http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver
>
> Accessories make life so much easier for musicians.

---Nice piece...I don't think I could get enough for my CA Bulldog .44
special to buy one, though....

I hate the opposite, actually - When people assume that because you have a
good ear and/or a lot of experience, you can just play ANYTHING at the drop
of a hat.

Played a gig the other day with a keyboardist I've worked with before. Good
player, nice guy. However, he shows up with no bass book - which is OK
except a) he does a lot of originals b) he plays a lot of standards with
different changes c) he doesn't count off the songs before he stats playing
or tell you anything about the song. I had no choice but to wing it.

Never even contemplated taking the originals off the list, nor did I have
time to ask as one song went right into another. It was interesting to say
the least.


The corollary to this one is: Just because I have good ears and I like
Steely Dan, that does not mean I can fake my way through the one Steely Dan
song you do - especially when the whole thing hinges on a bass into that
I've never played before. They're shocked when you tell them to skip it.


"J Stevens" <IdontLikeSpamjay-stevens@telus.netspamsucksass> wrote in
message news:tCnVj.1871$KB3.644@edtnps91...
> Learning a bunch of songs that you don't end up playing!
>
> Twice this week I've subbed in on a gig with short notice.
> "it's all songs you know...no problem"
> I get the song list for this weekend's gig, and I don't even recognize the
> names of the songs. Any songs I do recognize aren't the versions I know.
>
> Earlier in the week I sub in for an original act. I work hard charting 2
> cd's worth of stuff, and then memorizing them so I don't have piles of
> papers on stage.
>
> Both bands played barely any of the songs they gave me to learn.
> The original band played 2 songs off their new cd, and a handful of ones
> from another. Then they just called out stuff on the fly.
>
> Last night the band deviated from the set list they gave me and either
> scratched some songs 'cause the singer couldn't find her lyrics, or they
> transposed the songs to a singer friendly key.
>
> Just once I'd like to sub in a band that gives me a list of songs that
they
> WILL ACTUALLY PLAY in the keys they play them in.
>
> Jay S
>
>

"js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
news:48263cf2$0$5722$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I hate the opposite, actually - When people assume that because you have a
> good ear and/or a lot of experience, you can just play ANYTHING at the
> drop
> of a hat.
>
> Played a gig the other day with a keyboardist I've worked with before.
> Good
> player, nice guy. However, he shows up with no bass book - which is OK
> except a) he does a lot of originals b) he plays a lot of standards with
> different changes c) he doesn't count off the songs before he stats
> playing
> or tell you anything about the song. I had no choice but to wing it.
>
> Never even contemplated taking the originals off the list, nor did I have
> time to ask as one song went right into another. It was interesting to say
> the least.
>
>
> The corollary to this one is: Just because I have good ears and I like
> Steely Dan, that does not mean I can fake my way through the one Steely
> Dan
> song you do - especially when the whole thing hinges on a bass into that
> I've never played before. They're shocked when you tell them to skip it.


If they're that dumb, they might actually be impressed with how little you
manage to play correctly. :) This happened to me last week. We had a guest
keyboard player at practice for no particularly good reason. She said "Let's
try 'Go Your Own Way'" (Fleetwood Mac). I've never played it before. We
played it. Today, my guitarist called and says the keyboard player wanted to
know which of my previous bands did the song so well.

Duh. What I played was noodling at best. Good quality noodling, but still
noodling.

JoeSpareBedroom <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> She said "Let's
> try 'Go Your Own Way'" (Fleetwood Mac). I've never played it before. We
> played it. Today, my guitarist called and says the keyboard player wanted to
> know which of my previous bands did the song so well.
>
> Duh. What I played was noodling at best. Good quality noodling, but still
> noodling.

'Go your own way' is a fine example of a noodly bass line. Quality
noodling was therefore exactly the right thing to do. You might not
have got the 'correct' line by accident, but it would have the right
feel. It's always good when that happens.

I think we need a thread listing 'noodly but effective' bass lines -
they're much more interesting than the 'simple but effective' ones.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

"Derek Tearne" <derek@url.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1igs0nv.195bjx31d6t1lsN%derek@url.co.nz...
> JoeSpareBedroom <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> She said "Let's
>> try 'Go Your Own Way'" (Fleetwood Mac). I've never played it before. We
>> played it. Today, my guitarist called and says the keyboard player wanted
>> to
>> know which of my previous bands did the song so well.
>>
>> Duh. What I played was noodling at best. Good quality noodling, but still
>> noodling.
>
> 'Go your own way' is a fine example of a noodly bass line. Quality
> noodling was therefore exactly the right thing to do. You might not
> have got the 'correct' line by accident, but it would have the right
> feel. It's always good when that happens.
>
> I think we need a thread listing 'noodly but effective' bass lines -
> they're much more interesting than the 'simple but effective' ones.
>
> --- Derek


Go ahead. Make my day. Start that thread. :)

That's the problem with Steely Dan tunes - you can't just "fake" something
like Babylon Sisters or Josie and have them sound even in the ballpark -
because everyone else will likely be playing it just like the record. And
trying to guess where the next chord is going? Forget it.

Otherwise, I totally get off on faking a song I've never heard before, but
it works best if there's come sort of context for me to put it in - 12 bar
blues, 3 chord rock, ii-v-i progressions, etc.


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:86rVj.18179$pI4.13927@fe101.usenetserver.com...
> "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
> news:48263cf2$0$5722$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >I hate the opposite, actually - When people assume that because you have
a
> > good ear and/or a lot of experience, you can just play ANYTHING at the
> > drop
> > of a hat.
> >
> > Played a gig the other day with a keyboardist I've worked with before.
> > Good
> > player, nice guy. However, he shows up with no bass book - which is OK
> > except a) he does a lot of originals b) he plays a lot of standards with
> > different changes c) he doesn't count off the songs before he stats
> > playing
> > or tell you anything about the song. I had no choice but to wing it.
> >
> > Never even contemplated taking the originals off the list, nor did I
have
> > time to ask as one song went right into another. It was interesting to
say
> > the least.
> >
> >
> > The corollary to this one is: Just because I have good ears and I like
> > Steely Dan, that does not mean I can fake my way through the one Steely
> > Dan
> > song you do - especially when the whole thing hinges on a bass into that
> > I've never played before. They're shocked when you tell them to skip it.
>
>
> If they're that dumb, they might actually be impressed with how little you
> manage to play correctly. :) This happened to me last week. We had a
guest
> keyboard player at practice for no particularly good reason. She said
"Let's
> try 'Go Your Own Way'" (Fleetwood Mac). I've never played it before. We
> played it. Today, my guitarist called and says the keyboard player wanted
to
> know which of my previous bands did the song so well.
>
> Duh. What I played was noodling at best. Good quality noodling, but still
> noodling.
>
>

js wrote:
> That's the problem with Steely Dan tunes - you can't just "fake" something
> like Babylon Sisters or Josie and have them sound even in the ballpark -
> because everyone else will likely be playing it just like the record. And
> trying to guess where the next chord is going? Forget it.
>
> Otherwise, I totally get off on faking a song I've never heard before, but
> it works best if there's come sort of context for me to put it in - 12 bar
> blues, 3 chord rock, ii-v-i progressions, etc.
>

With Steely Dan, if the keys player knows it, you're good. They
always telegraph the modulations. Because that's what they do.

<snip>

--
Les Cargill

"js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
news:48263cf2$0$5722$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I hate the opposite, actually - When people assume that because you have a
> good ear and/or a lot of experience, you can just play ANYTHING at the
> drop
> of a hat.
>
I don't think that's really the opposite. I think it goes hand in hand.
Because you have a good ear, they assume that learning there list was no
problem and you're good enough to be thrown a whole night of curve balls.
They feel comfortable that you know what you're doing so they don't consider
that you might actually be winging it big time!

I've played with one guy a number of times that seems to make a game out of
not ever discussing what you might play. He always just starts playing a
song whether you know it or not. No heads up, no key...nothing.
I think he does it because he knows the guys he hires will keep up.

Jay S

Playing stuff you've never heard of on the spot is NOT the opposite of
rehearsing material you'll never use? Interesting...

As for your other comment - I pretty much make my living playing by the seat
of my pants, and I can tell you there's a lot more involved than just
getting a bunch of good players and saying "1 2 3 GO!"

99% of the time if a tune train wrecks or the gig becomes amateur hour, it'
the BAND LEADER'S fault - and I include myself in that blame.

The guys who just expect everything to "happen" - or even worse, the guys
who expect it to just come out the way they hear it in their head - these
guys are like the Captain of the Titanic. One small mistake mushrooms into a
complete clusterfuck. Great players can smooth it over, maybe...but the
whole operations still sounds half assed.

The guys who know how to communicate what they want to players via simple
descriptive phrases (or God forbid, well written sheet music), who can count
tempos, telegraph chord changes; who give the player space to play his way
instead of boxing him in,; and most importantly, guys who can roll with the
changes if something happens - these are the pickup bands where civilians
come up and ask "So, how many days a week do you guys rehearse?"


"J Stevens" <IdontLikeSpamjay-stevens@telus.netspamsucksass> wrote in
message news:3dtVj.1540$Yp.772@edtnps92...
>
> "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
> news:48263cf2$0$5722$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >I hate the opposite, actually - When people assume that because you have
a
> > good ear and/or a lot of experience, you can just play ANYTHING at the
> > drop
> > of a hat.
> >
> I don't think that's really the opposite. I think it goes hand in hand.
> Because you have a good ear, they assume that learning there list was no
> problem and you're good enough to be thrown a whole night of curve balls.
> They feel comfortable that you know what you're doing so they don't
consider
> that you might actually be winging it big time!
>
> I've played with one guy a number of times that seems to make a game out
of
> not ever discussing what you might play. He always just starts playing a
> song whether you know it or not. No heads up, no key...nothing.
> I think he does it because he knows the guys he hires will keep up.
>
> Jay S
>
>

"js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
news:48266972$0$5109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Playing stuff you've never heard of on the spot is NOT the opposite of
> rehearsing material you'll never use? Interesting...

I didn't say that me playing stuff I've never heard is the same as
rehearsing stuff I'll never use. I was making a point that they bandleader
seems to think because you can do one, that you can do the other.
It goes hand in hand. Anytime I've played with someone who expects you to
learn a bunch of songs on short notice, they usually expect you to be able
to play whatever they call out.


> As for your other comment - I pretty much make my living playing by the
> seat
> of my pants, and I can tell you there's a lot more involved than just
> getting a bunch of good players and saying "1 2 3 GO!"
>
I make my living that way too. I know what's involved in being in a good
band versus being in a "nobody gives a shit" band

> 99% of the time if a tune train wrecks or the gig becomes amateur hour,
> it'
> the BAND LEADER'S fault - and I include myself in that blame.
>
I completely agree...that's why I prefer to be a sideman. Although I can't
remember the last time I was involved in a train wreck...

> The guys who just expect everything to "happen" - or even worse, the guys
> who expect it to just come out the way they hear it in their head - these
> guys are like the Captain of the Titanic. One small mistake mushrooms into
> a
> complete clusterfuck. Great players can smooth it over, maybe...but the
> whole operations still sounds half assed.

The drunk chicks dancing and singing along don't seem to notice or care.
I'm glad I have a regular "professional" gig or I'd go insane from all this
"half assed" shit

Jay S

> I didn't say that me playing stuff I've never heard is the same as
> rehearsing stuff I'll never use. I was making a point that they bandleader
> seems to think because you can do one, that you can do the other.
> It goes hand in hand. Anytime I've played with someone who expects you to
> learn a bunch of songs on short notice, they usually expect you to be able
> to play whatever they call out.

Now you're just making my head hurt...

Also, you're right that people don't know the difference between a good
"band" and a half assed one - but the CROWD knows it, and the bar knows it
because the crowd stays longer and drinks more.

IMO, it's mostly down to the rhythm section. Everything else can suck, but
if drums, bass and some chord instrument can power through, it makes all the
difference.



"J Stevens" <IdontLikeSpamjay-stevens@telus.netspamsucksass> wrote in
message news:bSzVj.1977$KB3.1536@edtnps91...
>
> "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in message
> news:48266972$0$5109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> > Playing stuff you've never heard of on the spot is NOT the opposite of
> > rehearsing material you'll never use? Interesting...
>
> I didn't say that me playing stuff I've never heard is the same as
> rehearsing stuff I'll never use. I was making a point that they bandleader
> seems to think because you can do one, that you can do the other.
> It goes hand in hand. Anytime I've played with someone who expects you to
> learn a bunch of songs on short notice, they usually expect you to be able
> to play whatever they call out.
>
>
> > As for your other comment - I pretty much make my living playing by the
> > seat
> > of my pants, and I can tell you there's a lot more involved than just
> > getting a bunch of good players and saying "1 2 3 GO!"
> >
> I make my living that way too. I know what's involved in being in a good
> band versus being in a "nobody gives a shit" band
>
> > 99% of the time if a tune train wrecks or the gig becomes amateur hour,
> > it'
> > the BAND LEADER'S fault - and I include myself in that blame.
> >
> I completely agree...that's why I prefer to be a sideman. Although I can't
> remember the last time I was involved in a train wreck...
>
> > The guys who just expect everything to "happen" - or even worse, the
guys
> > who expect it to just come out the way they hear it in their head -
these
> > guys are like the Captain of the Titanic. One small mistake mushrooms
into
> > a
> > complete clusterfuck. Great players can smooth it over, maybe...but the
> > whole operations still sounds half assed.
>
> The drunk chicks dancing and singing along don't seem to notice or care.
> I'm glad I have a regular "professional" gig or I'd go insane from all
this
> "half assed" shit
>
> Jay S
>
>
>
>

> IMO, it's mostly down to the rhythm section. Everything else can suck, but if drums, bass and some chord instrument can power through, it makes all the difference.

*******

I don't know, the vocalist is pretty important, especially these days.

js wrote:
>> I didn't say that me playing stuff I've never heard is the same as
>> rehearsing stuff I'll never use. I was making a point that they bandleader
>> seems to think because you can do one, that you can do the other.
>> It goes hand in hand. Anytime I've played with someone who expects you to
>> learn a bunch of songs on short notice, they usually expect you to be able
>> to play whatever they call out.
>
> Now you're just making my head hurt...
>
> Also, you're right that people don't know the difference between a good
> "band" and a half assed one - but the CROWD knows it, and the bar knows it
> because the crowd stays longer and drinks more.
>

Uh, no. The dronks like to see a fellow member of the dronks fraternity
onstage. Or a chesty female.

A CROWD is a collection of people, and people get dumber in groups.

<snip>

--
Les Cargill