What to do about a trainwreck?

Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.

Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only good
thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who should
charge on?

Thanks,
DA

"Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:Frqdnbt22fHrNLXVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only
> good thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who
> should charge on?
>
> Thanks,
> DA
>


I had one of those last week with the host band at an open jam. These guys
are usually amazing at rescuing a train wreck, but nothing worked. All cars
off the tracks, off the bridge into the river below, no survivors. I tried -
I really did. I turned to each of them and made sure they could see the
notes I was playing on the neck. No help.

In your situation, I think one guitarist should've stopped playing, with the
hope the other one would realize he needed to insert some very clear rhythm
chops to relocate everyone. You can't stop. Losing the bass would be too
noticeable.

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SU1Wj.45138$ye3.28043@fe119.usenetserver.com...
> "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:Frqdnbt22fHrNLXVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
>> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
>> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>>
>> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
>> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only
>> good thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who
>> should charge on?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> DA
>>
>
>
> I had one of those last week with the host band at an open jam. These guys
> are usually amazing at rescuing a train wreck, but nothing worked. All
> cars off the tracks, off the bridge into the river below, no survivors. I
> tried - I really did. I turned to each of them and made sure they could
> see the notes I was playing on the neck. No help.
>
> In your situation, I think one guitarist should've stopped playing, with
> the hope the other one would realize he needed to insert some very clear
> rhythm chops to relocate everyone. You can't stop. Losing the bass would
> be too noticeable.
>

The problem was that the singer jumped in early on the verse. There is a
little instrumental part but she just jumped in. We were all scrambling to
figure out what chord she was on. It did not help that we could not hear
her well through the monitors.

I agree that the bass should try to charge on and let the guitars come in
later.

It's really unnerving for a while when everyone gets lost. Sometimes I get
lost and try to fake it. It's hard to resists the urge to stop. Is is
better to play wrong notes than stop all together?

-DA

"Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:4vidnQb3yvcpNrXVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:SU1Wj.45138$ye3.28043@fe119.usenetserver.com...
>> "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:Frqdnbt22fHrNLXVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
>>> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to
>>> everyone.....unless you are perfect and then you need to find another
>>> newsgroup.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
>>> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only
>>> good thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who
>>> should charge on?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> DA
>>>
>>
>>
>> I had one of those last week with the host band at an open jam. These
>> guys are usually amazing at rescuing a train wreck, but nothing worked.
>> All cars off the tracks, off the bridge into the river below, no
>> survivors. I tried - I really did. I turned to each of them and made sure
>> they could see the notes I was playing on the neck. No help.
>>
>> In your situation, I think one guitarist should've stopped playing, with
>> the hope the other one would realize he needed to insert some very clear
>> rhythm chops to relocate everyone. You can't stop. Losing the bass would
>> be too noticeable.
>>
>
> The problem was that the singer jumped in early on the verse. There is a
> little instrumental part but she just jumped in. We were all scrambling
> to figure out what chord she was on. It did not help that we could not
> hear her well through the monitors.
>
> I agree that the bass should try to charge on and let the guitars come in
> later.
>
> It's really unnerving for a while when everyone gets lost. Sometimes I
> get lost and try to fake it. It's hard to resists the urge to stop. Is
> is better to play wrong notes than stop all together?
>
> -DA
>


Never *EVER* stop a song, unless it's in the first few seconds when you
haven't got people dancing yet. Even without dancers, stopping in the middle
is just absurd. If this keeps happening, your band needs more practice, and
you need to have a serious discussion about signaling, and paying attention
with your eyes & ears. I've been going to the same open jam for 3 years,
(about 80 events) and the wreck last week was the first ever. Everyone's got
"big ears".

I would've followed the singer, since the attention was on her at the
moment. Seems easier to correct guitar & bass than it does for her to find
her way to different lyrics quickly.

How many of your band members (including you) play with their heads down,
totally wrapped up in their instruments, not watching each other?

Axtman wrote:

> It's really unnerving for a while when everyone gets lost. Sometimes I get
> lost and try to fake it. It's hard to resists the urge to stop. Is is
> better to play wrong notes than stop all together?

If you don't know how to recognize guitar chords visually, learn it. If
you get really lost, just hit the root until there's a place to come
back in.

I always pedal the root until everyone starts getting back on board. If they
all stop it turns into a rhythm section breakdown. ymmv.

-- jepp
if it sounds good...IT IS GOOD!

On May 12, 4:35 pm, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck?  Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost.  The only =
good
> thing was that the drummer stayed on.  So who should give and who should=

> charge on?
>
> Thanks,
> DA

There isn't a formula, maybe all drop out except for "On the drums,
Mad Beter!!" Then pick it up somehow. Perhaps next Tappy Crone comes
in bass, then Lou Towd on geetar...

Imho, a trainwreck is only embarrassing if you let it be. I would
suggest that your frontperson be able to deal with the situation with
with a little self deprecating humour and charisma. Just definitely
include the audience, or whoever might be paying attention in on the
joke.

Or just put the poor beast out of it's misery, and start a new tune.

"Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:Frqdnbt22fHrNLXVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only
> good thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who
> should charge on?
>
> Thanks,
> DA
>


What song were you playing?

On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:35:41 -0700, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom>
wrote:

>Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
>you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
>Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
>guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only good
>thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who should
>charge on?

There ain't a thing you can do about it, nor is it something that has
a pat answer. Just do the best you can and hope nobody dies.

"Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> writes:

> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only good
> thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who should
> charge on?

Luckily this has never happened irrecoverably to me, but there've been
close calls or several seconds of WTF? A guy who subbed in for me
played a whole damned SRV song a half step lower than the rest of the
band because he wasn't aware the studio recordings were detuned a half
step... and he never did figure it out apparently.

In general, it depends on the trainwreck, who detects it, and who's
got an idea of how to get back. If you've got a decent band with
decent communication, the anomaly gets detected quickly. If the
drummer's got their shit together, let him keep rollin on, instruments
and voice stop, signal drummer to keep goin, maybe a simple into an
impromptu drum solo. Quick conference among the 3 of you lost dudes
to determine when/how to bring this thing back together (okay, on my
count lets' start from verse 3, alright?"), someone go talk into the
drummers ear, count a 1 2 3 4 and start in where ya agreed without the
drummer missin a beat.

People will think it's jazz.

If that's not feasible, if you have a frontman of sufficient clue and
charisma, they can save this by stopping the misery, falling on teh
grenade, quickly communicating where to start up again and roll ahead,
or going to the next tune. This has to happen quickly, and few bands
have a lead singer that can pull it off.


Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette |
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/bmiawmb

My experience is you hope you are playing with mate's good enough to
understand how to drop or add beats so that it gets back on track.
Or another way to look at it, like when they set up those huge domino
falls. If they accidentally trigger the fall they put their hand down the
line and let them fall to their hand. You can't fix it right on the note,
you must think ahead in the music and let it founder for a few beats and all
land together down the line.
Definitely keep a sense of humor and don't let them see you sweat. The
audience is going to be more put off by your dieing a thousands deaths
before their eyes than any screw up.
But the cardinal rule is to play through it. No matter what, just act like
you meant to do it. Remember, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance,
baffle them with bullshit!".
SotR

"SotR" <flippy@ssm.com> wrote in message
news:jf4Wj.1389$r82.210@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> My experience is you hope you are playing with mate's good enough to
> understand how to drop or add beats so that it gets back on track.


Exactly. Listen to the middle of "One Way Out" on the Allman Brothers "Eat A
Peach" album, where one of the drummers pretty much slams things back into
place.

Axtman wrote:
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only good
> thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who should
> charge on?

If the American Idol thread teaches you nothing else, then it should
teach you that the singer is probably your best bet for leading you out
of trouble. The audience is paying most of its attention to the singer,
so if he goes back into the bridge a second time, follow him.

That said, every song is different. Where you wreck the train is
different. Thus, how you get back on track depends on the situation. But
if the singer has kept going, back up the singer. If the guitarist hits
a solo, back him up.

If everybody is somewhere different, make eye contact and start into a
distinctive part of the song (like a pre-chorus or chorus) and pick up
from there.

Axtman wrote:
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only good
> thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who should
> charge on?
>
> Thanks,
> DA
>
>

The one that is on gets the right of way.

--
Les Cargill

"Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote in message
news:Frqdnbt22fHrNLXVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
> Okay this has happened to everyone and WILL happen to everyone.....unless
> you are perfect and then you need to find another newsgroup.
>
> Anyhow, how do you gracefully get out of a trainwreck? Last night both
> guitar players, the bass player (me) and the singer got lost. The only
> good thing was that the drummer stayed on. So who should give and who
> should charge on?
>

The person who can most effectively slam the downbeat and most effectively
communicate it to the rest of the band is the one who should charge on. The
rest should catch up as quickly as possible.

In my three-piece, it doesn't happen often (thank DOG!) but it happens once
in a while. Usually it's me that plows on, because I'm singing, and am the
"music director" in a sense. However, there have been a few times when it's
been one of the others...'specially if I was lost in space somewhere and
couldn't figure out what planet I was on.
--
Keep Thumpin', Lane...

Ask not what bass can do for you...Ask what YOU can do for bass.
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