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Some have it....some don't
I'm no spring chicken and have been around the block once or twice. What I
have really come to realize is that some guys have "it" and some don't.
"It" being an instinctive sense for music. I have met some very talented
technical musicians that for all their ability just did not have a sense or
groove. It's hard to explain. Those of you that know what I am talking
about....know what I am talking about.
-DA
have really come to realize is that some guys have "it" and some don't.
"It" being an instinctive sense for music. I have met some very talented
technical musicians that for all their ability just did not have a sense or
groove. It's hard to explain. Those of you that know what I am talking
about....know what I am talking about.
-DA
The weird thing is, as I get older and teach a wider cross section of
students, the LESS I believe in an "it".
My belief is that it's all in a) what you listen to b) how much time you put
into learning your instrument. Period.
I've had guys who can't play a note, but listened to blues or gospel or
classic rock since they were young, and they pick up the concepts right
away.
OTOH, I've had schooled, degreed classical players who cannot even begin to
grasp something as simple as "shuffle 8ths", let alone "groove".
I also do not believe that there is any such thing as "Tone deaf" - and this
comes from a guy who sees colors when he plays.
When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just
don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span to
accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is
essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
MAKE it happen.
For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,
YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within a
month of lessons...
If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
"David Axt" <daxt@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
news:YbOdnaCbJcSuHLfVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
> I'm no spring chicken and have been around the block once or twice. What
I
> have really come to realize is that some guys have "it" and some don't.
> "It" being an instinctive sense for music. I have met some very talented
> technical musicians that for all their ability just did not have a sense
or
> groove. It's hard to explain. Those of you that know what I am talking
> about....know what I am talking about.
>
> -DA
>
>
students, the LESS I believe in an "it".
My belief is that it's all in a) what you listen to b) how much time you put
into learning your instrument. Period.
I've had guys who can't play a note, but listened to blues or gospel or
classic rock since they were young, and they pick up the concepts right
away.
OTOH, I've had schooled, degreed classical players who cannot even begin to
grasp something as simple as "shuffle 8ths", let alone "groove".
I also do not believe that there is any such thing as "Tone deaf" - and this
comes from a guy who sees colors when he plays.
When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just
don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span to
accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is
essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
MAKE it happen.
For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,
YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within a
month of lessons...
If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
"David Axt" <daxt@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
news:YbOdnaCbJcSuHLfVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@posted.palinacquisition...
> I'm no spring chicken and have been around the block once or twice. What
I
> have really come to realize is that some guys have "it" and some don't.
> "It" being an instinctive sense for music. I have met some very talented
> technical musicians that for all their ability just did not have a sense
or
> groove. It's hard to explain. Those of you that know what I am talking
> about....know what I am talking about.
>
> -DA
>
>
On May 14, 3:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> The weird thing is, as I get older and teach a wider cross section of
> students, the LESS I believe in an "it".
>
> My belief is that it's all in a) what you listen to b) how much time you p=
ut
> into learning your instrument. Period.
>
> I've had guys who can't play a note, but listened to blues or gospel or
> classic rock since they were young, and they pick up the concepts right
> away.
>
> OTOH, I've had schooled, degreed classical players who cannot even begin t=
o
> grasp something as simple as "shuffle 8ths", let alone "groove".
>
> I also do not believe that there is any such thing as "Tone deaf" - and th=
is
> comes from a guy who sees colors when he plays.
>
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just=
> don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span t=
o
> accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is=
> essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
> MAKE it happen.
>
> For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,=
> YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within =
a
> month of lessons...
>
> If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
Truer words...
I was a Suzuki dad. There's always a grain of salt, but when you see
five-year-olds playing everything in Book I correctly, singing all the
songs in Book II, a capella and in tune without a "starting note" (as
preparation to learn to play them, before ever trying to play them)
sight-singing in tune without a cue note, being able to clap rhythms
on sight, and having good basic "musical knowledge" incl. knowing all
the major key sigs, you see that Dr. Suzuki was correct-- that all
children have powerful innate ability that can be brought forth
(developed) in a nurturing environment.
Talent is developed.
"Knowledge plus 10,000 repetitions"-- again, truer words never spoken.
IOW, knowing how to do something correctly, and a lot of effort in
learning the physical part leads to success, which the population at
large sees and speaks of as "talent".
IMHO what really puts the lie to the common misperceptions IRT
"talent" is the fact that adults learn to play, too. Maybe only a few
go through "the books" (Suzuki's sequential method books), due to
jobs, adult responsibilities and distractions, but in the good (real)
Suzuki programs, a parent is the Home Teacher and must learn how to
play, also. You go to the large-group Suzuki workshops, you see a few
grownups who didn't play when they were kids but learned to play
beautifully as adults.
I don't know about the "beautiful" part but even this old broken-down
bar band bass player got teacher approval on his mastery of Book I. I
even learned how to hold a bow correctly. Took a year, year and a
half; made a big difference in my sound <g>. Probably more like 30 or
40,000 reps in my case... but who's counting?
Goes to motivation. Woodshedding is hard work, you gotta want it bad.
No excuses.
"Listening" needs to be "active listening", not just letting the music
waft through one ear and out the other. And listening has to be high-
quality music; one of the maxims in our group was "don't let your kids
hear you practice" <g>. To that end, the Suzuki listening material is
performed by David Nadien for violin, Gary Karr for bass, for two
examples off the top of my head. --D-y
> The weird thing is, as I get older and teach a wider cross section of
> students, the LESS I believe in an "it".
>
> My belief is that it's all in a) what you listen to b) how much time you p=
ut
> into learning your instrument. Period.
>
> I've had guys who can't play a note, but listened to blues or gospel or
> classic rock since they were young, and they pick up the concepts right
> away.
>
> OTOH, I've had schooled, degreed classical players who cannot even begin t=
o
> grasp something as simple as "shuffle 8ths", let alone "groove".
>
> I also do not believe that there is any such thing as "Tone deaf" - and th=
is
> comes from a guy who sees colors when he plays.
>
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just=
> don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span t=
o
> accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is=
> essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
> MAKE it happen.
>
> For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,=
> YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within =
a
> month of lessons...
>
> If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
Truer words...
I was a Suzuki dad. There's always a grain of salt, but when you see
five-year-olds playing everything in Book I correctly, singing all the
songs in Book II, a capella and in tune without a "starting note" (as
preparation to learn to play them, before ever trying to play them)
sight-singing in tune without a cue note, being able to clap rhythms
on sight, and having good basic "musical knowledge" incl. knowing all
the major key sigs, you see that Dr. Suzuki was correct-- that all
children have powerful innate ability that can be brought forth
(developed) in a nurturing environment.
Talent is developed.
"Knowledge plus 10,000 repetitions"-- again, truer words never spoken.
IOW, knowing how to do something correctly, and a lot of effort in
learning the physical part leads to success, which the population at
large sees and speaks of as "talent".
IMHO what really puts the lie to the common misperceptions IRT
"talent" is the fact that adults learn to play, too. Maybe only a few
go through "the books" (Suzuki's sequential method books), due to
jobs, adult responsibilities and distractions, but in the good (real)
Suzuki programs, a parent is the Home Teacher and must learn how to
play, also. You go to the large-group Suzuki workshops, you see a few
grownups who didn't play when they were kids but learned to play
beautifully as adults.
I don't know about the "beautiful" part but even this old broken-down
bar band bass player got teacher approval on his mastery of Book I. I
even learned how to hold a bow correctly. Took a year, year and a
half; made a big difference in my sound <g>. Probably more like 30 or
40,000 reps in my case... but who's counting?
Goes to motivation. Woodshedding is hard work, you gotta want it bad.
No excuses.
"Listening" needs to be "active listening", not just letting the music
waft through one ear and out the other. And listening has to be high-
quality music; one of the maxims in our group was "don't let your kids
hear you practice" <g>. To that end, the Suzuki listening material is
performed by David Nadien for violin, Gary Karr for bass, for two
examples off the top of my head. --D-y
js wrote:
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they
> just don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want
> to play.
That's what I beleive too. Unless they suffer amusia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia), there is nothing like pure
talent. When I hear, I can't play piano, I have no talent, my answer
is always the same: How many hours did you practice today? When I was
a teenager, I spent 30 hours/week learning piano and guitar. Took me
months to be able to play the songs I wanted to play. I am still
practicing almost everyday. I have no talent, I just work to make it
happen.
--
Frederic Gelinas
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they
> just don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want
> to play.
That's what I beleive too. Unless they suffer amusia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia), there is nothing like pure
talent. When I hear, I can't play piano, I have no talent, my answer
is always the same: How many hours did you practice today? When I was
a teenager, I spent 30 hours/week learning piano and guitar. Took me
months to be able to play the songs I wanted to play. I am still
practicing almost everyday. I have no talent, I just work to make it
happen.
--
Frederic Gelinas
On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just
> don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span to
> accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is
> essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
> MAKE it happen.
>
> For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,
> YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within a
> month of lessons...
>
> If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
"develop it"!.
My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
"New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank
dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
"it".
Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can change
and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
Benj
> When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they just
> don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span to
> accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this is
> essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will
> MAKE it happen.
>
> For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Stars,
> YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, within a
> month of lessons...
>
> If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.
I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
"develop it"!.
My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
"New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank
dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
"it".
Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can change
and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
Benj
On 14 May, 08:49, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
> On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they ju=
st
> > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span=
to
> > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this =
is
> > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will=
> > MAKE it happen.
>
> > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Star=
s,
> > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, withi=
n a
> > month of lessons...
>
> > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.=
>
> I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
> having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
> days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
> out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> "develop it"!.
>
> My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank
> dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
> just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> "it".
>
> Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
> you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
> days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
> in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
> example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
> to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can change
> and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> Benj
I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
TS
> On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they ju=
st
> > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play.
>
> > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention span=
to
> > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but this =
is
> > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you will=
> > MAKE it happen.
>
> > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the Star=
s,
> > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, withi=
n a
> > month of lessons...
>
> > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTEN.=
>
> I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
> having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
> days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
> out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> "develop it"!.
>
> My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank
> dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
> just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> "it".
>
> Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
> you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
> days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
> in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
> example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
> to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can change
> and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> Benj
I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
TS
TS wrote:
> I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> TS
I don't know how you define "IT" but it has nothing to do with perfect
pitch, or any other god given ability. Those things make it easier for
sure but aren't the defining qualities. So many times over the years
I've heard players (myself included) momentarily rise above their usual
level during moments when they stop thinking about trying to sound good
and just use the skill and emotion they have to play completely in the
moment. Most players experience this at some time or another but only a
few can hold on and tap into it every time they play. David Friesen said
to me once, "Every time you pick up the instrument you need to play like
it's the last time you're ever going to....because one time it will be."
Having "IT" is living in the moment every time you play, being
completely fearless every time you play and maintaining focus year in
year out to work hard and acquire enough craft that what you need to say
isn't inhibited for lack of technique. Anyone with the genuine need to
make a personal musical statement has the potential to have "IT". So few
do though that it starts to seem like this deep mystical gift when it
really isn't.
> I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> TS
I don't know how you define "IT" but it has nothing to do with perfect
pitch, or any other god given ability. Those things make it easier for
sure but aren't the defining qualities. So many times over the years
I've heard players (myself included) momentarily rise above their usual
level during moments when they stop thinking about trying to sound good
and just use the skill and emotion they have to play completely in the
moment. Most players experience this at some time or another but only a
few can hold on and tap into it every time they play. David Friesen said
to me once, "Every time you pick up the instrument you need to play like
it's the last time you're ever going to....because one time it will be."
Having "IT" is living in the moment every time you play, being
completely fearless every time you play and maintaining focus year in
year out to work hard and acquire enough craft that what you need to say
isn't inhibited for lack of technique. Anyone with the genuine need to
make a personal musical statement has the potential to have "IT". So few
do though that it starts to seem like this deep mystical gift when it
really isn't.
jeffb wrote:
>
> David Friesen said
> to me once, "Every time you pick up the instrument you need to play like
> it's the last time you're ever going to....because one time it will be."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX7IcN5--5s
This interview with David is worth checking out.
>
> David Friesen said
> to me once, "Every time you pick up the instrument you need to play like
> it's the last time you're ever going to....because one time it will be."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX7IcN5--5s
This interview with David is worth checking out.
On May 14, 11:44 am, jeffb <rig...@shaw.c> wrote:
> So many times over the years
> I've heard players (myself included) momentarily rise above their usual
> level during moments when they stop thinking about trying to sound good
> and just use the skill and emotion they have to play completely in the
> moment. Most players experience this at some time or another but only a
> few can hold on and tap into it every time they play.
It's those few, fleeting moments when this happens that I remember WHY
I drag two basses, a big amp, a big cab, cables, extra strings, mic
stands, etc. out of my basement or garage into a stinky club filled
with stinky, drunk people. It's a high that, when experienced,
immediately makes you want more. Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
It's the entire reason I keep playing...
Corey
> So many times over the years
> I've heard players (myself included) momentarily rise above their usual
> level during moments when they stop thinking about trying to sound good
> and just use the skill and emotion they have to play completely in the
> moment. Most players experience this at some time or another but only a
> few can hold on and tap into it every time they play.
It's those few, fleeting moments when this happens that I remember WHY
I drag two basses, a big amp, a big cab, cables, extra strings, mic
stands, etc. out of my basement or garage into a stinky club filled
with stinky, drunk people. It's a high that, when experienced,
immediately makes you want more. Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
It's the entire reason I keep playing...
Corey
> Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
> of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
Oh, I don't know 'bout that. I wouldn't mind being locked with Wonder
Woman, unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
I think that'd be OK.
Sorry. :-)
> of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
Oh, I don't know 'bout that. I wouldn't mind being locked with Wonder
Woman, unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
I think that'd be OK.
Sorry. :-)
On May 14, 1:18 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX.net> wrote:
> > Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
> > of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> > unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> Oh, I don't know 'bout that. I wouldn't mind being locked with Wonder
> Woman, unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> I think that'd be OK.
>
> Sorry. :-)
Doh! Ya got me! :-)
Corey
> > Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
> > of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> > unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> Oh, I don't know 'bout that. I wouldn't mind being locked with Wonder
> Woman, unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> I think that'd be OK.
>
> Sorry. :-)
Doh! Ya got me! :-)
Corey
On May 14, 12:54 pm, coreybenson <coreyben...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I drag two basses, a big amp, a big cab, cables, extra strings, mic
> stands, etc. out of my basement or garage into a stinky club filled
> with stinky, drunk people. It's a high that, when experienced,
> immediately makes you want more. Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
> of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> It's the entire reason I keep playing...
>
> Corey
Well said.
I think those are the reasons why most of us play.
Pt
> I drag two basses, a big amp, a big cab, cables, extra strings, mic
> stands, etc. out of my basement or garage into a stinky club filled
> with stinky, drunk people. It's a high that, when experienced,
> immediately makes you want more. Heroine ain't got NUTHIN' on the joy
> of being locked with a great band, playing above your abilities,
> unable to make a mistake, eyes closed.
>
> It's the entire reason I keep playing...
>
> Corey
Well said.
I think those are the reasons why most of us play.
Pt
On May 14, 11:44 pm, jeffb <rig...@shaw.c> wrote:
>
> Having "IT" is living in the moment every time you play, being
> completely fearless every time you play and maintaining focus year in
> year out to work hard and acquire enough craft that what you need to say
> isn't inhibited for lack of technique. Anyone with the genuine need to
> make a personal musical statement has the potential to have "IT". So few
> do though that it starts to seem like this deep mystical gift when it
> really isn't.
Yeah. Those things make a huge difference. I wish it hadn't taken me
twenty years to figure that out. Basically I had to learn to trust my
body and just let it play. Leaning to play an instrument is 90%
knowing music and 10% mechanical. So someone who starts out with a
good understanding of music -- like having musicians for parents --
has a huge advantage. So now that I know that stuff I seem talented,
though I am still me.
I think that education is very backward and there is huge room for
improvement. Maybe 100 years from now kids will be learning stuff
like you wouldn't believe.
>
> Having "IT" is living in the moment every time you play, being
> completely fearless every time you play and maintaining focus year in
> year out to work hard and acquire enough craft that what you need to say
> isn't inhibited for lack of technique. Anyone with the genuine need to
> make a personal musical statement has the potential to have "IT". So few
> do though that it starts to seem like this deep mystical gift when it
> really isn't.
Yeah. Those things make a huge difference. I wish it hadn't taken me
twenty years to figure that out. Basically I had to learn to trust my
body and just let it play. Leaning to play an instrument is 90%
knowing music and 10% mechanical. So someone who starts out with a
good understanding of music -- like having musicians for parents --
has a huge advantage. So now that I know that stuff I seem talented,
though I am still me.
I think that education is very backward and there is huge room for
improvement. Maybe 100 years from now kids will be learning stuff
like you wouldn't believe.
On May 14, 9:35 am, TS <tshaw7...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 14 May, 08:49, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they =
just
> > > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play=
.
>
> > > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention sp=
an to
> > > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but thi=
s is
> > > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you wi=
ll
> > > MAKE it happen.
>
> > > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the St=
ars,
> > > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, wit=
hin a
> > > month of lessons...
>
> > > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTE=
N.
>
> > I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
> > having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
> > days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
> > out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> > "develop it"!.
>
> > My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> > "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> > York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> > if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> > anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> > dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> > PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank=
> > dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> > there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> > in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
> > just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> > those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> > "it".
>
> > Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> > will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
> > you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
> > days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
> > in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
> > example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
> > to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> > experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> > don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> > I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> > was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> > can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can chang=
e
> > and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> > whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> > Benj
>
> I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> TS
> On 14 May, 08:49, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that they =
just
> > > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to play=
.
>
> > > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention sp=
an to
> > > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but thi=
s is
> > > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you wi=
ll
> > > MAKE it happen.
>
> > > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the St=
ars,
> > > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, wit=
hin a
> > > month of lessons...
>
> > > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LISTE=
N.
>
> > I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but
> > having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these
> > days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-
> > out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> > "develop it"!.
>
> > My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> > "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> > York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> > if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> > anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> > dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> > PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a rank=
> > dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> > there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> > in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It's
> > just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> > those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> > "it".
>
> > Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> > will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving
> > you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few
> > days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly
> > in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear
> > example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related
> > to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> > experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> > don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> > I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> > was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> > can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can chang=
e
> > and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> > whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> > Benj
>
> I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> TS
On May 14, 11:45 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com>
wrote:
> On May 14, 9:35 am, TS <tshaw7...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On 14 May, 08:49, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > > > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that the=
y just
> > > > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to pl=
ay.
>
> > > > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention =
span to
> > > > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but t=
his is
> > > > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you =
will
> > > > MAKE it happen.
>
> > > > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the =
Stars,
> > > > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, w=
ithin a
> > > > month of lessons...
>
> > > > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LIS=
TEN.
>
> > > I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but=
> > > having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these=
> > > days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-=
> > > out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> > > "develop it"!.
>
> > > My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> > > "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> > > York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> > > if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> > > anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> > > dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> > > PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a ra=
nk
> > > dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> > > there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> > > in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It'=
s
> > > just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> > > those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> > > "it".
>
> > > Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> > > will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving=
> > > you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few=
> > > days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly=
> > > in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear=
> > > example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related=
> > > to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> > > experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> > > don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> > > I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> > > was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> > > can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can cha=
nge
> > > and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> > > whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> > > Benj
>
> > I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> > any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> > shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> > opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> > probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> > who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> > There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> > but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> > absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> > Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> > shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> > will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> > TS
WRONG BUTTON
REGRET EXPRESSED
CLEANED MY GLASSES THANK YOU --D-y
wrote:
> On May 14, 9:35 am, TS <tshaw7...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On 14 May, 08:49, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 14, 4:26 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
>
> > > > When someone says they are "tone deaf", to me that means that the=
y just
> > > > don't have enough exposure or knowledge of the music they want to pl=
ay.
>
> > > > Nowadays, it also means they don't have the discipline or attention =
span to
> > > > accomplish what they desire. They will make a million excuses, but t=
his is
> > > > essentially what it comes down to. If you WANT it badly enough, you =
will
> > > > MAKE it happen.
>
> > > > For Christ's sake, if Marley Matlin can compete on Dancing with the =
Stars,
> > > > YOU should be able to fucking play eighth notes on open E in time, w=
ithin a
> > > > month of lessons...
>
> > > > If you can't, it's not genetic; it's just that you don't fucking LIS=
TEN.
>
> > > I used to believe as David does (and my dad (a drummer) did also), but=
> > > having been around the block a few times I have to agree with JS these=
> > > days. I think the old "have it or you don't" thing is rather a cop-=
> > > out to dismiss certain people who have in truth just not bothered to
> > > "develop it"!.
>
> > > My story has oddly enough to do with a dancer. I got to calling her
> > > "New York" because someone told me aside once that she went to New
> > > York to be a dancer and ended up with a bus ticket home. I don't know
> > > if the story is true, but I liked it and decided to believe it
> > > anyway! :-) It made sense because she was like the "star" of our
> > > dance class because she had every dance move down just technically
> > > PERFECT! I mean PERFECT. But in my humble opinion even then as a ra=
nk
> > > dance newbie, she was clearly the WORST dancer in the class. I mean
> > > there was ZERO "feeling", Zero expression, Zero "heart", zero emotion
> > > in everything she did. Just nothing coming from the inside out! It'=
s
> > > just like the schooled classical guys who can't get a shuffle. So in
> > > those days I simply dismissed her as one more artist who didn't have
> > > "it".
>
> > > Well, that was many years ago and as the youngsters here hopefully
> > > will learn, life has a way of rounding off your sharp edges and giving=
> > > you an "education" if you want it or not! I saw her dancing a a few=
> > > days ago, And while she still loves to do the technical stuff, clearly=
> > > in the "heart" department it was like night and day. It was a clear=
> > > example that having "it" is not "genetic" but indeed is simply related=
> > > to your interest in an art and how much you are willing to go
> > > experience it. Sure there are lots of activities where I'm sure I
> > > don't have "it", but then I don't give a damn about those things so
> > > I'm never going to have it! I think David's and my former mistake
> > > was that we assumed that if a person doesn't have "it" that then they
> > > can NEVER have "it". That is wrong. A person's interests can cha=
nge
> > > and when they do they can dig in and start getting the essence out of
> > > whatever it is. That is how I think it really works.
>
> > > Benj
>
> > I see you are all succumbing to the modern idea that anybody can do
> > any damn thing they are willing to do. That is unadulterated bull
> > shit. Any body who doesn't think talent exists is stupid and the
> > opinions of a bunch of rock and roll bass and guitar players are
> > probably the worst folks to be opining on this subject. And any body
> > who doesn't think lack of talent exists is also, of course, stupid.
> > There is no question that early experiences nurture various abilities
> > but to claim that Suzuki or anybody else can teach any kid to have
> > absolute pitch (which is in itself non-defined) is bull shit.
> > Similarly that you can teach any kid to be a genius is also bull
> > shit. It's pie in the sky time kiddos and within your life times you
> > will be finding out that a lot of your modern thinking is horse shit.
> > TS
WRONG BUTTON
REGRET EXPRESSED
CLEANED MY GLASSES THANK YOU --D-y
