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Bass Playing Skills
There was a post on alt.guitar recently. It said basically that
whenever they got people together to jam, they could always find some
available guitarist or else someone who couldn't play bass very well,
and it always worked out. They were very much implying that playing
bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
really matter.
The reason I bring this up is I know three guitarists who were talking
about getting together to jam. I said "well, one of you should play
bass then".
Here's my feeling: if you have three musicians, I don't think you
should just take the worst of the three and put them on bass. In
fact, maybe the best musician should play the bass. It depends on how
good all of the musicians are. Playing bass well requires you to be
able to play single note lines proficiently, so you don't want to put
a guitarist who usually just dunks chords on there.
On the other hand, if you're just happy with the bass playing the root
of the chord all the way through the songs, maybe you can get by with
putting the worst musician on bass.
whenever they got people together to jam, they could always find some
available guitarist or else someone who couldn't play bass very well,
and it always worked out. They were very much implying that playing
bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
really matter.
The reason I bring this up is I know three guitarists who were talking
about getting together to jam. I said "well, one of you should play
bass then".
Here's my feeling: if you have three musicians, I don't think you
should just take the worst of the three and put them on bass. In
fact, maybe the best musician should play the bass. It depends on how
good all of the musicians are. Playing bass well requires you to be
able to play single note lines proficiently, so you don't want to put
a guitarist who usually just dunks chords on there.
On the other hand, if you're just happy with the bass playing the root
of the chord all the way through the songs, maybe you can get by with
putting the worst musician on bass.
"iarwain" <iarwain_8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09545176-9e40-4b88-8913-4ef0f3832a12@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> There was a post on alt.guitar recently. It said basically that
> whenever they got people together to jam, they could always find some
> available guitarist or else someone who couldn't play bass very well,
> and it always worked out. They were very much implying that playing
> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> really matter.
>
> The reason I bring this up is I know three guitarists who were talking
> about getting together to jam. I said "well, one of you should play
> bass then".
> Here's my feeling: if you have three musicians, I don't think you
> should just take the worst of the three and put them on bass. In
> fact, maybe the best musician should play the bass. It depends on how
> good all of the musicians are. Playing bass well requires you to be
> able to play single note lines proficiently, so you don't want to put
> a guitarist who usually just dunks chords on there.
>
> On the other hand, if you're just happy with the bass playing the root
> of the chord all the way through the songs, maybe you can get by with
> putting the worst musician on bass.
Or, you could call a bass player and discover the error of your ways.
news:09545176-9e40-4b88-8913-4ef0f3832a12@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> There was a post on alt.guitar recently. It said basically that
> whenever they got people together to jam, they could always find some
> available guitarist or else someone who couldn't play bass very well,
> and it always worked out. They were very much implying that playing
> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> really matter.
>
> The reason I bring this up is I know three guitarists who were talking
> about getting together to jam. I said "well, one of you should play
> bass then".
> Here's my feeling: if you have three musicians, I don't think you
> should just take the worst of the three and put them on bass. In
> fact, maybe the best musician should play the bass. It depends on how
> good all of the musicians are. Playing bass well requires you to be
> able to play single note lines proficiently, so you don't want to put
> a guitarist who usually just dunks chords on there.
>
> On the other hand, if you're just happy with the bass playing the root
> of the chord all the way through the songs, maybe you can get by with
> putting the worst musician on bass.
Or, you could call a bass player and discover the error of your ways.
> They were very much implying that playing
> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> really matter.
There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
playing bass. Emphasis on "well." The things that guys like Leo
Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
you gonna do? They are the same players that couldn't play bass to save
their lives. Whatever. Strumming chords and playing a typical rock
solo are less difficult than playing bass, but again, so what?
I don't think we have to feel bad, as bassists, to admit that it doesn't
take as much manual dexterity to play our instruments well as it does to
play a guitar well. So what? It's even easier to play piano, and it's
easier yet to play many other instruments. So what? It's not a
competition, it's music. We're musicians. The end result is what counts.
> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> really matter.
There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
playing bass. Emphasis on "well." The things that guys like Leo
Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
you gonna do? They are the same players that couldn't play bass to save
their lives. Whatever. Strumming chords and playing a typical rock
solo are less difficult than playing bass, but again, so what?
I don't think we have to feel bad, as bassists, to admit that it doesn't
take as much manual dexterity to play our instruments well as it does to
play a guitar well. So what? It's even easier to play piano, and it's
easier yet to play many other instruments. So what? It's not a
competition, it's music. We're musicians. The end result is what counts.
"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> They were very much implying that playing
>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>> really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass.
Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the rhythm
section.
news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> They were very much implying that playing
>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>> really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass.
Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the rhythm
section.
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>> really matter.
>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>> playing bass.
>
> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the rhythm
> section.
>
>
Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
ain't big enough fer both of us...."
--
Les Cargill
> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>> really matter.
>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>> playing bass.
>
> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the rhythm
> section.
>
>
Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
ain't big enough fer both of us...."
--
Les Cargill
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>> really matter.
>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>>> playing bass.
>>
>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>> rhythm section.
>
>
> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>
> --
> Les Cargill
No market for it? Git on over here.
news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>> really matter.
>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>>> playing bass.
>>
>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>> rhythm section.
>
>
> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>
> --
> Les Cargill
No market for it? Git on over here.
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>> really matter.
>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>>>> playing bass.
>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>> rhythm section.
>>
>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
>
> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
>
I'm stuck. But thanks.
--
Les Cargill
> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>> really matter.
>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
>>>> playing bass.
>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>> rhythm section.
>>
>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
>
> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
>
I'm stuck. But thanks.
--
Les Cargill
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>>> rhythm section.
>>>
>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>
>>> --
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>>
>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
breathlessly for their solos.
The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
than some bassists. Truly amazing.
news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>>> rhythm section.
>>>
>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>
>>> --
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>>
>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
breathlessly for their solos.
The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
than some bassists. Truly amazing.
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>>>> rhythm section.
>>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Les Cargill
>>>
>>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
>
> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
> because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
> believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
> breathlessly for their solos.
>
Oh yeah. I could not agree more, on either side of the stage. "Lead"
lead players tend to rush the rhythm parts - hurryupsoIcangettomy
bigSOLOOOOOOO!!!!"
I am in a three-peice now, playing guitar, and some songs, I just
vamp the rhythm part thru where the solo would have been, because
the bottom would drop out. I am pretty sure nobody cares. They care
about the vocals more, anyway.
But the guys they admire the most - Hendrix and EdE V. Halen, were
both fantastic rhythm players. *Shrug*.
> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
> band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
> they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
> local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
> playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
> than some bassists. Truly amazing.
>
>
You just can't do without it. Even Joe Satriani, who plays *fine* rhythm
guitar, got Andy Fairwether Low on one or more albums. It is ,
unfortunately, quite rare.
--
Les Cargill
> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
>>>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
>>>>> rhythm section.
>>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Les Cargill
>>>
>>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
>
> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
> because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
> believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
> breathlessly for their solos.
>
Oh yeah. I could not agree more, on either side of the stage. "Lead"
lead players tend to rush the rhythm parts - hurryupsoIcangettomy
bigSOLOOOOOOO!!!!"
I am in a three-peice now, playing guitar, and some songs, I just
vamp the rhythm part thru where the solo would have been, because
the bottom would drop out. I am pretty sure nobody cares. They care
about the vocals more, anyway.
But the guys they admire the most - Hendrix and EdE V. Halen, were
both fantastic rhythm players. *Shrug*.
> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
> band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
> they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
> local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
> playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
> than some bassists. Truly amazing.
>
>
You just can't do without it. Even Joe Satriani, who plays *fine* rhythm
guitar, got Andy Fairwether Low on one or more albums. It is ,
unfortunately, quite rare.
--
Les Cargill
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:482ce16b$0$7080$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm
>>>>>> guitar player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to
>>>>>> enhance the rhythm section.
>>>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Les Cargill
>>>>
>>>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>>> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>>
>> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not
>> only because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also
>> because I believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is
>> waiting breathlessly for their solos.
>>
>
> Oh yeah. I could not agree more, on either side of the stage. "Lead"
> lead players tend to rush the rhythm parts - hurryupsoIcangettomy
> bigSOLOOOOOOO!!!!"
>
> I am in a three-peice now, playing guitar, and some songs, I just
> vamp the rhythm part thru where the solo would have been, because
> the bottom would drop out. I am pretty sure nobody cares. They care
> about the vocals more, anyway.
>
> But the guys they admire the most - Hendrix and EdE V. Halen, were
> both fantastic rhythm players. *Shrug*.
>
>> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his
>> own band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried
>> about what they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at
>> one of our local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count
>> on, his rhythm playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with
>> the drummer better than some bassists. Truly amazing.
>
> You just can't do without it. Even Joe Satriani, who plays *fine* rhythm
> guitar, got Andy Fairwether Low on one or more albums. It is ,
> unfortunately, quite rare.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
Unfortunately, Bob Weir's rhythm work goes largely unnoticed. For example,
listen to what he does on "Me & Bobby McGee" on the double live (Bertha)
album. Beautiful.
news:482ce16b$0$7080$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>>> "Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
>>>>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>>>>>>>> really matter.
>>>>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
>>>>>>> than playing bass.
>>>>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm
>>>>>> guitar player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to
>>>>>> enhance the rhythm section.
>>>>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
>>>>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
>>>>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
>>>>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Les Cargill
>>>>
>>>> No market for it? Git on over here.
>>> I'm stuck. But thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>>
>> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not
>> only because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also
>> because I believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is
>> waiting breathlessly for their solos.
>>
>
> Oh yeah. I could not agree more, on either side of the stage. "Lead"
> lead players tend to rush the rhythm parts - hurryupsoIcangettomy
> bigSOLOOOOOOO!!!!"
>
> I am in a three-peice now, playing guitar, and some songs, I just
> vamp the rhythm part thru where the solo would have been, because
> the bottom would drop out. I am pretty sure nobody cares. They care
> about the vocals more, anyway.
>
> But the guys they admire the most - Hendrix and EdE V. Halen, were
> both fantastic rhythm players. *Shrug*.
>
>> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his
>> own band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried
>> about what they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at
>> one of our local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count
>> on, his rhythm playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with
>> the drummer better than some bassists. Truly amazing.
>
> You just can't do without it. Even Joe Satriani, who plays *fine* rhythm
> guitar, got Andy Fairwether Low on one or more albums. It is ,
> unfortunately, quite rare.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
Unfortunately, Bob Weir's rhythm work goes largely unnoticed. For example,
listen to what he does on "Me & Bobby McGee" on the double live (Bertha)
album. Beautiful.
On May 16, 7:06 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>
> > JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> >> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> >>>> "Brian Running" <brunn...@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
> >>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> >>>>>> really matter.
> >>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
> >>>>> than playing bass.
> >>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
> >>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
> >>>> rhythm section.
>
> >>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
> >>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
> >>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
> >>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>
> >>> --
> >>> Les Cargill
>
> >> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
> > I'm stuck. But thanks.
>
> > --
> > Les Cargill
>
> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
> because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
> believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
> breathlessly for their solos.
>
> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
> band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
> they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
> local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
> playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
> than some bassists. Truly amazing.
Yeah, getting in a good groove with a band that doesn't have it is a
waste of time. You can't even tell the difference and its boring.
I think that a solid rhythm guitar and a freer bass is the way to go.
It works for the Grateful Dead and Rolling Stones. But its hard to
find a guitar player to do it, and it's one more mouth to feed.
> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:482cc919$0$7039$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>
> > JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> >> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>news:482b7ea7$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> >>>> "Brian Running" <brunn...@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:n5KWj.33$mh5.29@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >>>>>> They were very much implying that playing
> >>>>>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> >>>>>> really matter.
> >>>>> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder
> >>>>> than playing bass.
> >>>> Interesting, though, how hard it is to find a truly good rhythm guitar
> >>>> player, and how amazing it is what a good one can do to enhance the
> >>>> rhythm section.
>
> >>> Truth be told, I love playing rhythm guitar above all else. There's
> >>> never any market for it. Last band I played strictly rhythm in,
> >>> the lead player got psycho and ran me off - essentially "this town
> >>> ain't big enough fer both of us...."
>
> >>> --
> >>> Les Cargill
>
> >> No market for it? Git on over here.
>
> > I'm stuck. But thanks.
>
> > --
> > Les Cargill
>
> Every ad I've placed for guitarists has stressed rhythm over lead, not only
> because I have huge respect for good rhythm players, but also because I
> believe it filters out the masturbators who think the world is waiting
> breathlessly for their solos.
>
> The guitarist I used to play with is a bit sloppy when he's fronting his own
> band, I think because his band sucks and he's constantly worried about what
> they'll do next to screw things up. But whenever I see him at one of our
> local blues jams, where he's got solid players he can count on, his rhythm
> playing is nothing short of magnificent. He locks in with the drummer better
> than some bassists. Truly amazing.
Yeah, getting in a good groove with a band that doesn't have it is a
waste of time. You can't even tell the difference and its boring.
I think that a solid rhythm guitar and a freer bass is the way to go.
It works for the Grateful Dead and Rolling Stones. But its hard to
find a guitar player to do it, and it's one more mouth to feed.
Brian Running wrote:
>> They were very much implying that playing
>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>> really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass. Emphasis on "well."
There is much question of that. Oh yes there is. I played bass
much of my young adult life. One thing I never, ever did was
play guitar around the guitar players, because I was
usually, in some way or the other, a better guitar
player than they were.
I played bass because that was where my bang for the buck was.
That was gonna make it a better *band*, and the band was the product,
not me.
> The things that guys like Leo
> Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
> did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
>
Past a certain level, it's about ... personality, for lack
of a better term. I'm not *that* good, but I have worked out
a few Kottke things to my satisfaction - I don't have his tone,
nor his phrasing, but it's not rocket surgery. It just takes
time.
I've forgotten them ( and they're not the sort of thing I can
remember without practicing ) but it's not *that* hard. I just
used to have a lot of time on my hands... and it helps
when you figure out what tuning he's using...
> There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
> guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
> thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
> Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
> you gonna do?
Playing simple stuff is much, much harder than playing complicated
stuff. Much. How many bass players have you heard *actually*
play Dusty Hill parts? Actually - all of it, the groove, the
pushes, the million little variations on inflection....
I can do it, and I can think of one other guy who could do it, and
he's a serious first-level pro. Ever listen to the Stones after Wyman
quit? Yeah, it's easy.... and Darryl Jones is no slouch. It
just ain't *right*. God love 'im.
> They are the same players that couldn't play bass to save
> their lives. Whatever. Strumming chords and playing a typical rock
> solo are less difficult than playing bass, but again, so what?
>
> I don't think we have to feel bad, as bassists, to admit that it doesn't
> take as much manual dexterity to play our instruments well as it does to
> play a guitar well. So what? It's even easier to play piano,
????
> and it's
> easier yet to play many other instruments. So what? It's not a
> competition, it's music. We're musicians. The end result is what counts.
I have wonder when I read things like this....
--
Les Cargill
>> They were very much implying that playing
>> bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
>> really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass. Emphasis on "well."
There is much question of that. Oh yes there is. I played bass
much of my young adult life. One thing I never, ever did was
play guitar around the guitar players, because I was
usually, in some way or the other, a better guitar
player than they were.
I played bass because that was where my bang for the buck was.
That was gonna make it a better *band*, and the band was the product,
not me.
> The things that guys like Leo
> Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
> did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
>
Past a certain level, it's about ... personality, for lack
of a better term. I'm not *that* good, but I have worked out
a few Kottke things to my satisfaction - I don't have his tone,
nor his phrasing, but it's not rocket surgery. It just takes
time.
I've forgotten them ( and they're not the sort of thing I can
remember without practicing ) but it's not *that* hard. I just
used to have a lot of time on my hands... and it helps
when you figure out what tuning he's using...
> There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
> guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
> thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
> Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
> you gonna do?
Playing simple stuff is much, much harder than playing complicated
stuff. Much. How many bass players have you heard *actually*
play Dusty Hill parts? Actually - all of it, the groove, the
pushes, the million little variations on inflection....
I can do it, and I can think of one other guy who could do it, and
he's a serious first-level pro. Ever listen to the Stones after Wyman
quit? Yeah, it's easy.... and Darryl Jones is no slouch. It
just ain't *right*. God love 'im.
> They are the same players that couldn't play bass to save
> their lives. Whatever. Strumming chords and playing a typical rock
> solo are less difficult than playing bass, but again, so what?
>
> I don't think we have to feel bad, as bassists, to admit that it doesn't
> take as much manual dexterity to play our instruments well as it does to
> play a guitar well. So what? It's even easier to play piano,
????
> and it's
> easier yet to play many other instruments. So what? It's not a
> competition, it's music. We're musicians. The end result is what counts.
I have wonder when I read things like this....
--
Les Cargill
On May 14, 5:54 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX.net> wrote:
> > They were very much implying that playing
> > bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> > really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass. Emphasis on "well." The things that guys like Leo
> Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
> did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
>
> There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
> guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
> thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
> Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
> you gonna do?
Take the money, free drinks, free food, free transportation and loose
women as suits you as much as possible, and let them flail?
Oh yeah, don't forget the earplugs. --D-y
> > They were very much implying that playing
> > bass was easy, and if the bass player wasn't very good it didn't
> > really matter.
>
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than
> playing bass. Emphasis on "well." The things that guys like Leo
> Kottke, Paco De Lucia, etc., etc. do make the things that guys like Jaco
> did or Richard Bona do look pretty simple by comparison.
>
> There are players all over the spectrum, of course. The typical
> guitarist that mocks bass players is a simple rock and roll player who
> thinks power chords are a major musical accomplishment, and that Eric
> Clapton is the greatest guitarist of all time. Well, fine. What are
> you gonna do?
Take the money, free drinks, free food, free transportation and loose
women as suits you as much as possible, and let them flail?
Oh yeah, don't forget the earplugs. --D-y
> There is absolutely no question that playing guitar well is harder than playing bass.
Original poster here.
On some level I agree with you but on another level I don't. Is what
Leo Kottke does really more difficult than what Victor Wooten does? I
don't really think so. Of course Wooten doesn't really exemplify
typical bass playing. Take any fast complex line on guitar and it's
going to be more difficult to execute on a bass - the frets and
strings are farther apart and the strings are thicker. I don't mean
this as any slight on Kottke, but if you become proficient at the
fingerpicking style, what he does becomes much less mysterious than if
you just play guitar with a pick all the time.
The thing that really makes me wonder about who should be on bass is
look at the Beatles. If Paul McCartney had not taken over on bass,
how different would that band had been? McCartney was probably the
best musician in the group (some might argue Harrison). If someone
less musically gifted had played bass we would have had none of those
wonderfully melodic lines he played - a lot of people actually credit
him with revolutionizing the instrument.
One other note, when I originally posted I did not mean to focus so
much on the "jam" aspect. The question could apply to any group of
musicians getting together for a project. I'm just saying the project
is going to benefit if the person playing bass is solid musically, as
opposed to just being someone who can't really do anything well, so
they give him the bass.
Original poster here.
On some level I agree with you but on another level I don't. Is what
Leo Kottke does really more difficult than what Victor Wooten does? I
don't really think so. Of course Wooten doesn't really exemplify
typical bass playing. Take any fast complex line on guitar and it's
going to be more difficult to execute on a bass - the frets and
strings are farther apart and the strings are thicker. I don't mean
this as any slight on Kottke, but if you become proficient at the
fingerpicking style, what he does becomes much less mysterious than if
you just play guitar with a pick all the time.
The thing that really makes me wonder about who should be on bass is
look at the Beatles. If Paul McCartney had not taken over on bass,
how different would that band had been? McCartney was probably the
best musician in the group (some might argue Harrison). If someone
less musically gifted had played bass we would have had none of those
wonderfully melodic lines he played - a lot of people actually credit
him with revolutionizing the instrument.
One other note, when I originally posted I did not mean to focus so
much on the "jam" aspect. The question could apply to any group of
musicians getting together for a project. I'm just saying the project
is going to benefit if the person playing bass is solid musically, as
opposed to just being someone who can't really do anything well, so
they give him the bass.
> On some level I agree with you but on another level I don't. Is what
> Leo Kottke does really more difficult than what Victor Wooten does?
As always, I try to be at least a little controversial. What the heck. ;-)
It depends upon more than just playing technique, it depends upon the
role of the instrument in the music that's being performed. This ought
to get a few people really fired up: Leo Kottke performs entire songs
by himself, he plays the bass line, the melody and the harmony
simultaneously. Victor Wooten does not, plain and simple. Leo Kottke
conveys a complete performance of a song in his solo playing, Victor
Wooten more often than not performs solo with the sole intent of making
you say, "My God, that guy can play bass really, really fast." So,
they're doing two completely different things. You can't do on a bass
what Leo Kottke does on 12-string guitar, it's just impossible, the
instrument is not constructed that way. It takes a completely different
approach and a completely different set of manual-dexterity skills.
It's okay for bassists to admit that! For all I know, Leo Kottke
couldn't play a competent bass line on a bass guitar to save his soul.
But, I am willing to bet that if he did, it would be an integral part of
the performance of the complete song, not just be a wappity-bippity
sound-effects demo.
And, you can perform a complete song on a piano, too, but it's a hell of
a lot easier than on a guitar. All the notes on a piano are available
simultaneously, you're limited only by the number of fingers and their
reach. The notes on a guitar are not available simultaneously, and to
change the voicing of chords is often a complex, difficult exercise in
dexterity. You can't play the root and third simultaneously on one
string. On a piano, you just hit the keys. A piano doesn't require
precise timing between a plucking hand and a fretting hand. I think
this is all obvious, but another poster said he 'had wonder" about my
comment.
If you're honest with yourself, then you have to admit that the reason
we're so fascinated with Victor Wooten is because as we listen to him
play, we're thinking as bass players, "Holy shit, how does he do that?"
We're not thinking as pure music lovers, "Wow, what a beautiful song."
You can argue with that all you want, but there's an obvious reason
why bassists like Wooten, Pastorius, Clarke, etc., etc., never get broad
acceptance.
So, yeah, what Leo does is more difficult than what Vic does. But, as I
said, the average guitarist that thinks bass is just a guitar for
retarded players is not a very good guitarist. We've all heard them
before. Yammer, yammer. The hard part about playing bass is playing
the right notes, not how many of them you play. We're always searching
for the right note, at precisely the right spot, in just the right
groove, and it can be all whole notes, if that's what the song requires.
But it's hard to do, and it requires a completely different mind-set
than the one guitarists use. It's a Zen thing.
> Leo Kottke does really more difficult than what Victor Wooten does?
As always, I try to be at least a little controversial. What the heck. ;-)
It depends upon more than just playing technique, it depends upon the
role of the instrument in the music that's being performed. This ought
to get a few people really fired up: Leo Kottke performs entire songs
by himself, he plays the bass line, the melody and the harmony
simultaneously. Victor Wooten does not, plain and simple. Leo Kottke
conveys a complete performance of a song in his solo playing, Victor
Wooten more often than not performs solo with the sole intent of making
you say, "My God, that guy can play bass really, really fast." So,
they're doing two completely different things. You can't do on a bass
what Leo Kottke does on 12-string guitar, it's just impossible, the
instrument is not constructed that way. It takes a completely different
approach and a completely different set of manual-dexterity skills.
It's okay for bassists to admit that! For all I know, Leo Kottke
couldn't play a competent bass line on a bass guitar to save his soul.
But, I am willing to bet that if he did, it would be an integral part of
the performance of the complete song, not just be a wappity-bippity
sound-effects demo.
And, you can perform a complete song on a piano, too, but it's a hell of
a lot easier than on a guitar. All the notes on a piano are available
simultaneously, you're limited only by the number of fingers and their
reach. The notes on a guitar are not available simultaneously, and to
change the voicing of chords is often a complex, difficult exercise in
dexterity. You can't play the root and third simultaneously on one
string. On a piano, you just hit the keys. A piano doesn't require
precise timing between a plucking hand and a fretting hand. I think
this is all obvious, but another poster said he 'had wonder" about my
comment.
If you're honest with yourself, then you have to admit that the reason
we're so fascinated with Victor Wooten is because as we listen to him
play, we're thinking as bass players, "Holy shit, how does he do that?"
We're not thinking as pure music lovers, "Wow, what a beautiful song."
You can argue with that all you want, but there's an obvious reason
why bassists like Wooten, Pastorius, Clarke, etc., etc., never get broad
acceptance.
So, yeah, what Leo does is more difficult than what Vic does. But, as I
said, the average guitarist that thinks bass is just a guitar for
retarded players is not a very good guitarist. We've all heard them
before. Yammer, yammer. The hard part about playing bass is playing
the right notes, not how many of them you play. We're always searching
for the right note, at precisely the right spot, in just the right
groove, and it can be all whole notes, if that's what the song requires.
But it's hard to do, and it requires a completely different mind-set
than the one guitarists use. It's a Zen thing.
