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So what are the mistakes all band who put clips up on YouTube, MySpace or aother websites make?
- Playing too fast. You have to be aware that you are not in a rest
state when you play, and you have to relax the tempo or
it'llallsoundlikemuchruntogethergollythisisfunwecanplaysoWHOOEEEfast.
- Rushed fills. Just don't. Just don't. The one is not negotiable. If
you can't get back around, don't go there.
- Playing too loud. Bars are usually crappy acoustical spaces. You
can't drive 'em. They'll *ring*. And then it sounds like mooofuhuhmooof
uhuhuhmoof...
- Not having the vocals loud enough in the room. I don't *CARE* if
you can't sing - non-sing loudly. Knopfler drowns on his adenoids in
every song, and he's a Major Dude. And back that dang reverb down.
- Having too much stuff in the mix. Harder to describe, but *leave
space*. Back off during the verses, not just in loudness, but in
how much is being played. *Relax*. Especially you, Mr Drummer. I
think Tom Petty starts off every song on acoustic, and one of his
bass players acted like every note takes a minute off his life. It
sounds fantastic. Likewise Rick Rojas on "Heart Of Gold". Obviously,
Yes covers will be different, but space is a precious commodity.
"... left room for God to walk through the room" - Quincy Jones, on
the "Songs In The Key Of Life" DVD. Le Q knows, man.
- Lack of dynamics. Closely related to #4. Up to an including
cessation of playing your part. Try it. It's cool.
- Playing too many notes. We still play Musting Sally. I do the
Mitch Ryder version, a single note guitar part, like a bass
part. I also play the rests. We have *never* played that song when we
don't get a compliment on it. *Leave space*. When in doubt, leave it
out. If you are Talking Heads, the space is very strangely distributed,
but it is there...
- General indistinction. Summed from all of the above, plus a
pair of plastic pole speakers run *way* too hot. But you said turn
the vocals up? Yes, I did. But you have to have something with more
testicular fortitude than a grocery store PA up there. All
specifications are lies - you have to *listen*, or get
outside support on what to get. Plastic is a Bad Sign.
And once, just once, get a demo on a pair of Meyers. Oh. My.
This will get worse - all PA boxes now have been cost reduced
a lot recently. :(
- Vocal mush. Usually because... and I am not making this up - people
think the clip light on Mackie/Behringer boards is a pilot
light. It's not. Never light the lights - that's Bad. And don't
crank the treble, especially because it's likely to emphasize just
how badly the crappy crossover in your cheap pole speakers is,
never mind the sparkin' rock peizo tweeter.
- Poorly chosen harmony parts. You have to practice harmony. When
you practice harmony, use a piano and somebody who speaks triads.
You have to stay on your part. Don't cross over unless you intend to.
Phrase together. High parts come in late, leave early, like a pyramid,
but it's better to be precise.
- Sound badly adapted to the room. Usually too loud, but sometimes
it's just EQ that's not correct for the room. Carve off ten minutes to
check the room when you set up - the drummer will get a beer for you.
Well, we can hope... beer goes right to yer behind, anyway....
- bandsaw guitar tone. Back them knobs down. Yes, the camera makes you
look fat, but your amp probably does sound like that. This is something
everybody on alt.music.4-track learned over time, and it made a
*HUGE* difference. Jimmy Page wasn't using that much distortion,
dude...
- drums out of tune. I don't mean Bb, but the drums are both too loud
and too thin. And the kik is just absent. Kik drums can hang with
non-master volume Marshalls when they are set up and operated properly.
Yeah, by John Bonham. Well, it shows what is possible.
That hole in the front head? Might be a bad idea.... depends.
- Clanky bass tone. Dude, Jaco did it with a 360. You can do better.
This is a tough problem. I still fight this myself. Camera mics
amplify this exponentially.
- Cymbals and hi hat are too loud. I don't know how drummers figure out
the ins and outs of this, but choice of instrument there makes a
*massive* difference. Even if you have to help the drummer with
purchases, it makes a night and day difference.
- Improperly crossed and tuned PA. Biamping is hard.
--
Les Cargill
state when you play, and you have to relax the tempo or
it'llallsoundlikemuchruntogethergollythisisfunwecanplaysoWHOOEEEfast.
- Rushed fills. Just don't. Just don't. The one is not negotiable. If
you can't get back around, don't go there.
- Playing too loud. Bars are usually crappy acoustical spaces. You
can't drive 'em. They'll *ring*. And then it sounds like mooofuhuhmooof
uhuhuhmoof...
- Not having the vocals loud enough in the room. I don't *CARE* if
you can't sing - non-sing loudly. Knopfler drowns on his adenoids in
every song, and he's a Major Dude. And back that dang reverb down.
- Having too much stuff in the mix. Harder to describe, but *leave
space*. Back off during the verses, not just in loudness, but in
how much is being played. *Relax*. Especially you, Mr Drummer. I
think Tom Petty starts off every song on acoustic, and one of his
bass players acted like every note takes a minute off his life. It
sounds fantastic. Likewise Rick Rojas on "Heart Of Gold". Obviously,
Yes covers will be different, but space is a precious commodity.
"... left room for God to walk through the room" - Quincy Jones, on
the "Songs In The Key Of Life" DVD. Le Q knows, man.
- Lack of dynamics. Closely related to #4. Up to an including
cessation of playing your part. Try it. It's cool.
- Playing too many notes. We still play Musting Sally. I do the
Mitch Ryder version, a single note guitar part, like a bass
part. I also play the rests. We have *never* played that song when we
don't get a compliment on it. *Leave space*. When in doubt, leave it
out. If you are Talking Heads, the space is very strangely distributed,
but it is there...
- General indistinction. Summed from all of the above, plus a
pair of plastic pole speakers run *way* too hot. But you said turn
the vocals up? Yes, I did. But you have to have something with more
testicular fortitude than a grocery store PA up there. All
specifications are lies - you have to *listen*, or get
outside support on what to get. Plastic is a Bad Sign.
And once, just once, get a demo on a pair of Meyers. Oh. My.
This will get worse - all PA boxes now have been cost reduced
a lot recently. :(
- Vocal mush. Usually because... and I am not making this up - people
think the clip light on Mackie/Behringer boards is a pilot
light. It's not. Never light the lights - that's Bad. And don't
crank the treble, especially because it's likely to emphasize just
how badly the crappy crossover in your cheap pole speakers is,
never mind the sparkin' rock peizo tweeter.
- Poorly chosen harmony parts. You have to practice harmony. When
you practice harmony, use a piano and somebody who speaks triads.
You have to stay on your part. Don't cross over unless you intend to.
Phrase together. High parts come in late, leave early, like a pyramid,
but it's better to be precise.
- Sound badly adapted to the room. Usually too loud, but sometimes
it's just EQ that's not correct for the room. Carve off ten minutes to
check the room when you set up - the drummer will get a beer for you.
Well, we can hope... beer goes right to yer behind, anyway....
- bandsaw guitar tone. Back them knobs down. Yes, the camera makes you
look fat, but your amp probably does sound like that. This is something
everybody on alt.music.4-track learned over time, and it made a
*HUGE* difference. Jimmy Page wasn't using that much distortion,
dude...
- drums out of tune. I don't mean Bb, but the drums are both too loud
and too thin. And the kik is just absent. Kik drums can hang with
non-master volume Marshalls when they are set up and operated properly.
Yeah, by John Bonham. Well, it shows what is possible.
That hole in the front head? Might be a bad idea.... depends.
- Clanky bass tone. Dude, Jaco did it with a 360. You can do better.
This is a tough problem. I still fight this myself. Camera mics
amplify this exponentially.
- Cymbals and hi hat are too loud. I don't know how drummers figure out
the ins and outs of this, but choice of instrument there makes a
*massive* difference. Even if you have to help the drummer with
purchases, it makes a night and day difference.
- Improperly crossed and tuned PA. Biamping is hard.
--
Les Cargill
On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
alt.guitar.bass:
> High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
What does this mean?
alt.guitar.bass:
> High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
What does this mean?
I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when the other
harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't sustain. Otherwise
everything sounds like Yes.
"Nil" <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AA0374A64A1nilch1@216.196.97.136...
> On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> > pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> What does this mean?
harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't sustain. Otherwise
everything sounds like Yes.
"Nil" <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AA0374A64A1nilch1@216.196.97.136...
> On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> > pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> What does this mean?
On 16 May 2008, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in
alt.guitar.bass:
> I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when
> the other harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't
> sustain.
Really?! Maybe I don't understand what you mean - you really mean the
high part consistently comes in a full beat late? I can honestly say
that I've never noticed that anywhere. Can you cite some examples?
> Otherwise everything sounds like Yes.
I don't think that would be a bad thing at all. Still I don't notice
that their approach is different in that regard than in any other
artists that I listen to who feature lots of harmony singing. But maybe
I'm not listening for the right thing.
alt.guitar.bass:
> I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when
> the other harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't
> sustain.
Really?! Maybe I don't understand what you mean - you really mean the
high part consistently comes in a full beat late? I can honestly say
that I've never noticed that anywhere. Can you cite some examples?
> Otherwise everything sounds like Yes.
I don't think that would be a bad thing at all. Still I don't notice
that their approach is different in that regard than in any other
artists that I listen to who feature lots of harmony singing. But maybe
I'm not listening for the right thing.
1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat, per
se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest note
of any harmony.
The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the
reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is another
one.
2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementioned
groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
"Nil" <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AA01A3D442F2nilch1@216.196.97.136...
> On 16 May 2008, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when
> > the other harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't
> > sustain.
>
> Really?! Maybe I don't understand what you mean - you really mean the
> high part consistently comes in a full beat late? I can honestly say
> that I've never noticed that anywhere. Can you cite some examples?
>
> > Otherwise everything sounds like Yes.
>
> I don't think that would be a bad thing at all. Still I don't notice
> that their approach is different in that regard than in any other
> artists that I listen to who feature lots of harmony singing. But maybe
> I'm not listening for the right thing.
se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest note
of any harmony.
The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the
reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is another
one.
2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementioned
groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
"Nil" <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AA01A3D442F2nilch1@216.196.97.136...
> On 16 May 2008, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when
> > the other harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't
> > sustain.
>
> Really?! Maybe I don't understand what you mean - you really mean the
> high part consistently comes in a full beat late? I can honestly say
> that I've never noticed that anywhere. Can you cite some examples?
>
> > Otherwise everything sounds like Yes.
>
> I don't think that would be a bad thing at all. Still I don't notice
> that their approach is different in that regard than in any other
> artists that I listen to who feature lots of harmony singing. But maybe
> I'm not listening for the right thing.
On May 16, 4:05 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat, p=
er
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest not=
e
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the=
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is anothe=
r
> one.
>
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes=
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementione=
d
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Unison harmonies are all the same note, aren't they? That ain't CSNY.
I'm learning to sing the high parts on Southern Cross right now,
they're sure not singing in unison.
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat, p=
er
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest not=
e
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the=
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is anothe=
r
> one.
>
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes=
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementione=
d
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Unison harmonies are all the same note, aren't they? That ain't CSNY.
I'm learning to sing the high parts on Southern Cross right now,
they're sure not singing in unison.
Sorry, I meant to write "in unison", as in "all moving together" but the
"in" got deleted. And it's just a technique, not a rule. Most vocal groups
switch between several techniques during the course of a song.
Listen to the chorus of "Cool Change" for the best example of what I'm
talking about.
This is just
"The Bishop" <Convery.Kevin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d61c8606-80c1-469b-8be6-e74799036e7f@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 4:05 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat,
per
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest
note
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is
another
> one.
>
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the
aforementioned
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Unison harmonies are all the same note, aren't they? That ain't CSNY.
I'm learning to sing the high parts on Southern Cross right now,
they're sure not singing in unison.
"in" got deleted. And it's just a technique, not a rule. Most vocal groups
switch between several techniques during the course of a song.
Listen to the chorus of "Cool Change" for the best example of what I'm
talking about.
This is just
"The Bishop" <Convery.Kevin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d61c8606-80c1-469b-8be6-e74799036e7f@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 4:05 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat,
per
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest
note
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel" (which also does the
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is
another
> one.
>
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the
aforementioned
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Unison harmonies are all the same note, aren't they? That ain't CSNY.
I'm learning to sing the high parts on Southern Cross right now,
they're sure not singing in unison.
On 16 May 2008, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote in
alt.guitar.bass:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full
> beat, per se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody.
> And I assume he means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies,
> not just the highest note of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick,
> towards the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel"
> (which also does the reverse, with the low voices coming later.).
> LRB's "Cool Change" is another one.
Well, OK, I guess I know what you mean. But it seems to me that that's
just one of many arranging tricks, and a less common one than "unison"-
phrased harmony singing.
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies
> like Yes or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by
> the aforementioned groups or similar b) you can pull it off c)
> everyone blends.
It is difficult to sing harmonies with everybody entering and exiting
together. It takes good ears and practice. I find with my own home
recordings that even harmonizing with myself I'm pretty accurate with
the attack of the note, but the endings are often ragged.
alt.guitar.bass:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full
> beat, per se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody.
> And I assume he means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies,
> not just the highest note of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick,
> towards the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel"
> (which also does the reverse, with the low voices coming later.).
> LRB's "Cool Change" is another one.
Well, OK, I guess I know what you mean. But it seems to me that that's
just one of many arranging tricks, and a less common one than "unison"-
phrased harmony singing.
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies
> like Yes or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by
> the aforementioned groups or similar b) you can pull it off c)
> everyone blends.
It is difficult to sing harmonies with everybody entering and exiting
together. It takes good ears and practice. I find with my own home
recordings that even harmonizing with myself I'm pretty accurate with
the attack of the note, but the endings are often ragged.
Nil <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> It is difficult to sing harmonies with everybody entering and exiting
> together. It takes good ears and practice. I find with my own home
> recordings that even harmonizing with myself I'm pretty accurate with
> the attack of the note, but the endings are often ragged.
It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
> It is difficult to sing harmonies with everybody entering and exiting
> together. It takes good ears and practice. I find with my own home
> recordings that even harmonizing with myself I'm pretty accurate with
> the attack of the note, but the endings are often ragged.
It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
On 16 May 2008, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.guitar.bass:
> It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
I discovered a new Sonar trick recently... V-Vocal not only does pitch
correction, it does time correction! You can take an audio clip and
change the end time withough affecting the start time. Just the thing
for tightening up those ragged harmony parts!
alt.guitar.bass:
> It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
I discovered a new Sonar trick recently... V-Vocal not only does pitch
correction, it does time correction! You can take an audio clip and
change the end time withough affecting the start time. Just the thing
for tightening up those ragged harmony parts!
Nil <rednoise+news@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 16 May 2008, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
>> It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
>
> I discovered a new Sonar trick recently... V-Vocal not only does pitch
> correction, it does time correction! You can take an audio clip and
> change the end time withough affecting the start time. Just the thing
> for tightening up those ragged harmony parts!
Yeah, I saw that the other day when I was reading my cheat book.
Haven't tried that myself yet though. Did you ever look at this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Sonar-6-Power-Comprehensive-Guide/dp/1598633074/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210999771&sr=8-1
Beats the hell out of the Sonar manual...there's an edition for each
version of Sonar. Lots of neat tricks explained. Now if I can only sit
down and read it all!
> On 16 May 2008, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
>> It's nice that you can edit waveforms these days, isn't it? ;-)
>
> I discovered a new Sonar trick recently... V-Vocal not only does pitch
> correction, it does time correction! You can take an audio clip and
> change the end time withough affecting the start time. Just the thing
> for tightening up those ragged harmony parts!
Yeah, I saw that the other day when I was reading my cheat book.
Haven't tried that myself yet though. Did you ever look at this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Sonar-6-Power-Comprehensive-Guide/dp/1598633074/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210999771&sr=8-1
Beats the hell out of the Sonar manual...there's an edition for each
version of Sonar. Lots of neat tricks explained. Now if I can only sit
down and read it all!
js wrote:
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat, per
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest note
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel"
This is exactly where I stole the idea from. "Carrie Ann". And by
"later", I mean just a smidge.
> (which also does the
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is another
> one.
> Yup
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementioned
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Right. This is a cadge in case you don't have them drilled
extra tight.
<snip>
--
Les Cargill
> 1) Yes, really - although "beat" does no necssasrily mean one full beat, per
> se. It's just not entering exactly with the main melody. And I assume he
> means the really high falsetto/soprano harmonies, not just the highest note
> of any harmony.
>
> The example that keeps coming to mind is "Downed" by Cheap Trick, towards
> the end. Also, the Hollies "Carrie Ann" and "Carosel"
This is exactly where I stole the idea from. "Carrie Ann". And by
"later", I mean just a smidge.
> (which also does the
> reverse, with the low voices coming later.). LRB's "Cool Change" is another
> one.
> Yup
> 2) No, it's not a bad thing at all to have thick unison harmonies like Yes
> or CSNY or Queen or LRB - a) if you're playing a song by the aforementioned
> groups or similar b) you can pull it off c) everyone blends.
>
Right. This is a cadge in case you don't have them drilled
extra tight.
<snip>
--
Les Cargill
On May 16, 12:53 am, "js" <nothing AT nothing DOT com> wrote:
> I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when the oth=
er
> harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't sustain. Otherwise
> everything sounds like Yes.
>
> "Nil" <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9AA0374A64A1nilch1@216.196.97.136...
>
>
>
> > On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> > alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > > High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> > > pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> > What does this mean?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
They wish.
> I think he means that really high harmonies often don't start when the oth=
er
> harmonies do. They come in a beat or so late and don't sustain. Otherwise
> everything sounds like Yes.
>
> "Nil" <rednoise+n...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9AA0374A64A1nilch1@216.196.97.136...
>
>
>
> > On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> > alt.guitar.bass:
>
> > > High parts come in late, leave early, like a
> > > pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> > What does this mean?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
They wish.
Nil wrote:
> On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
>> High parts come in late, leave early, like a
>> pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> What does this mean?
You start high harmonies either phrased exactly like the
lead vocal, or you start a *wee* little bit late. If you
listn for it now, you'll hear it on lots of records. If
the lead vocal drops out and leaves the higher harmonies, it
sounds funny.
--
Les Cargill
> On 15 May 2008, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
> alt.guitar.bass:
>
>> High parts come in late, leave early, like a
>> pyramid, but it's better to be precise.
>
> What does this mean?
You start high harmonies either phrased exactly like the
lead vocal, or you start a *wee* little bit late. If you
listn for it now, you'll hear it on lots of records. If
the lead vocal drops out and leaves the higher harmonies, it
sounds funny.
--
Les Cargill
I would have said:
a) using the microphone on your webcam to record the performance is not such
a great idea.
b) Did you actually LISTEN to the thing before you posted it? Playing
something and listening to yourself play is are two very different things.
c) posting a shitty performance is not funny or cute. It's just annoying,
and it makes it harder to search for the good stuff.
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:482ceb68$0$7057$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> - Playing too fast. You have to be aware that you are not in a rest
> state when you play, and you have to relax the tempo or
> it'llallsoundlikemuchruntogethergollythisisfunwecanplaysoWHOOEEEfast.
>
> - Rushed fills. Just don't. Just don't. The one is not negotiable. If
> you can't get back around, don't go there.
>
> - Playing too loud. Bars are usually crappy acoustical spaces. You
> can't drive 'em. They'll *ring*. And then it sounds like mooofuhuhmooof
> uhuhuhmoof...
>
> - Not having the vocals loud enough in the room. I don't *CARE* if
> you can't sing - non-sing loudly. Knopfler drowns on his adenoids in
> every song, and he's a Major Dude. And back that dang reverb down.
>
> - Having too much stuff in the mix. Harder to describe, but *leave
> space*. Back off during the verses, not just in loudness, but in
> how much is being played. *Relax*. Especially you, Mr Drummer. I
> think Tom Petty starts off every song on acoustic, and one of his
> bass players acted like every note takes a minute off his life. It
> sounds fantastic. Likewise Rick Rojas on "Heart Of Gold". Obviously,
> Yes covers will be different, but space is a precious commodity.
> "... left room for God to walk through the room" - Quincy Jones, on
> the "Songs In The Key Of Life" DVD. Le Q knows, man.
>
> - Lack of dynamics. Closely related to #4. Up to an including
> cessation of playing your part. Try it. It's cool.
>
> - Playing too many notes. We still play Musting Sally. I do the
> Mitch Ryder version, a single note guitar part, like a bass
> part. I also play the rests. We have *never* played that song when we
> don't get a compliment on it. *Leave space*. When in doubt, leave it
> out. If you are Talking Heads, the space is very strangely distributed,
> but it is there...
>
> - General indistinction. Summed from all of the above, plus a
> pair of plastic pole speakers run *way* too hot. But you said turn
> the vocals up? Yes, I did. But you have to have something with more
> testicular fortitude than a grocery store PA up there. All
> specifications are lies - you have to *listen*, or get
> outside support on what to get. Plastic is a Bad Sign.
> And once, just once, get a demo on a pair of Meyers. Oh. My.
> This will get worse - all PA boxes now have been cost reduced
> a lot recently. :(
>
> - Vocal mush. Usually because... and I am not making this up - people
> think the clip light on Mackie/Behringer boards is a pilot
> light. It's not. Never light the lights - that's Bad. And don't
> crank the treble, especially because it's likely to emphasize just
> how badly the crappy crossover in your cheap pole speakers is,
> never mind the sparkin' rock peizo tweeter.
>
> - Poorly chosen harmony parts. You have to practice harmony. When
> you practice harmony, use a piano and somebody who speaks triads.
> You have to stay on your part. Don't cross over unless you intend to.
> Phrase together. High parts come in late, leave early, like a pyramid,
> but it's better to be precise.
>
> - Sound badly adapted to the room. Usually too loud, but sometimes
> it's just EQ that's not correct for the room. Carve off ten minutes to
> check the room when you set up - the drummer will get a beer for you.
> Well, we can hope... beer goes right to yer behind, anyway....
>
> - bandsaw guitar tone. Back them knobs down. Yes, the camera makes you
> look fat, but your amp probably does sound like that. This is something
> everybody on alt.music.4-track learned over time, and it made a
> *HUGE* difference. Jimmy Page wasn't using that much distortion,
> dude...
>
> - drums out of tune. I don't mean Bb, but the drums are both too loud
> and too thin. And the kik is just absent. Kik drums can hang with
> non-master volume Marshalls when they are set up and operated properly.
> Yeah, by John Bonham. Well, it shows what is possible.
> That hole in the front head? Might be a bad idea.... depends.
>
> - Clanky bass tone. Dude, Jaco did it with a 360. You can do better.
> This is a tough problem. I still fight this myself. Camera mics
> amplify this exponentially.
>
> - Cymbals and hi hat are too loud. I don't know how drummers figure out
> the ins and outs of this, but choice of instrument there makes a
> *massive* difference. Even if you have to help the drummer with
> purchases, it makes a night and day difference.
>
> - Improperly crossed and tuned PA. Biamping is hard.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
a) using the microphone on your webcam to record the performance is not such
a great idea.
b) Did you actually LISTEN to the thing before you posted it? Playing
something and listening to yourself play is are two very different things.
c) posting a shitty performance is not funny or cute. It's just annoying,
and it makes it harder to search for the good stuff.
"Les Cargill" <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:482ceb68$0$7057$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> - Playing too fast. You have to be aware that you are not in a rest
> state when you play, and you have to relax the tempo or
> it'llallsoundlikemuchruntogethergollythisisfunwecanplaysoWHOOEEEfast.
>
> - Rushed fills. Just don't. Just don't. The one is not negotiable. If
> you can't get back around, don't go there.
>
> - Playing too loud. Bars are usually crappy acoustical spaces. You
> can't drive 'em. They'll *ring*. And then it sounds like mooofuhuhmooof
> uhuhuhmoof...
>
> - Not having the vocals loud enough in the room. I don't *CARE* if
> you can't sing - non-sing loudly. Knopfler drowns on his adenoids in
> every song, and he's a Major Dude. And back that dang reverb down.
>
> - Having too much stuff in the mix. Harder to describe, but *leave
> space*. Back off during the verses, not just in loudness, but in
> how much is being played. *Relax*. Especially you, Mr Drummer. I
> think Tom Petty starts off every song on acoustic, and one of his
> bass players acted like every note takes a minute off his life. It
> sounds fantastic. Likewise Rick Rojas on "Heart Of Gold". Obviously,
> Yes covers will be different, but space is a precious commodity.
> "... left room for God to walk through the room" - Quincy Jones, on
> the "Songs In The Key Of Life" DVD. Le Q knows, man.
>
> - Lack of dynamics. Closely related to #4. Up to an including
> cessation of playing your part. Try it. It's cool.
>
> - Playing too many notes. We still play Musting Sally. I do the
> Mitch Ryder version, a single note guitar part, like a bass
> part. I also play the rests. We have *never* played that song when we
> don't get a compliment on it. *Leave space*. When in doubt, leave it
> out. If you are Talking Heads, the space is very strangely distributed,
> but it is there...
>
> - General indistinction. Summed from all of the above, plus a
> pair of plastic pole speakers run *way* too hot. But you said turn
> the vocals up? Yes, I did. But you have to have something with more
> testicular fortitude than a grocery store PA up there. All
> specifications are lies - you have to *listen*, or get
> outside support on what to get. Plastic is a Bad Sign.
> And once, just once, get a demo on a pair of Meyers. Oh. My.
> This will get worse - all PA boxes now have been cost reduced
> a lot recently. :(
>
> - Vocal mush. Usually because... and I am not making this up - people
> think the clip light on Mackie/Behringer boards is a pilot
> light. It's not. Never light the lights - that's Bad. And don't
> crank the treble, especially because it's likely to emphasize just
> how badly the crappy crossover in your cheap pole speakers is,
> never mind the sparkin' rock peizo tweeter.
>
> - Poorly chosen harmony parts. You have to practice harmony. When
> you practice harmony, use a piano and somebody who speaks triads.
> You have to stay on your part. Don't cross over unless you intend to.
> Phrase together. High parts come in late, leave early, like a pyramid,
> but it's better to be precise.
>
> - Sound badly adapted to the room. Usually too loud, but sometimes
> it's just EQ that's not correct for the room. Carve off ten minutes to
> check the room when you set up - the drummer will get a beer for you.
> Well, we can hope... beer goes right to yer behind, anyway....
>
> - bandsaw guitar tone. Back them knobs down. Yes, the camera makes you
> look fat, but your amp probably does sound like that. This is something
> everybody on alt.music.4-track learned over time, and it made a
> *HUGE* difference. Jimmy Page wasn't using that much distortion,
> dude...
>
> - drums out of tune. I don't mean Bb, but the drums are both too loud
> and too thin. And the kik is just absent. Kik drums can hang with
> non-master volume Marshalls when they are set up and operated properly.
> Yeah, by John Bonham. Well, it shows what is possible.
> That hole in the front head? Might be a bad idea.... depends.
>
> - Clanky bass tone. Dude, Jaco did it with a 360. You can do better.
> This is a tough problem. I still fight this myself. Camera mics
> amplify this exponentially.
>
> - Cymbals and hi hat are too loud. I don't know how drummers figure out
> the ins and outs of this, but choice of instrument there makes a
> *massive* difference. Even if you have to help the drummer with
> purchases, it makes a night and day difference.
>
> - Improperly crossed and tuned PA. Biamping is hard.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
