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Dead Spots

Reply from: Benj
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 15:28
Re: Dead Spots

On Apr 20, 7:01 am, de...@url.co.nz (Derek Tearne) wrote:

> One never hears people complaining about dead spots on their
> Rickenbackers, MusicMan, G&L, Modulus - heck any brand except Fender.

This is an interesting point! It got me thinking. I haven't noticed
anybody complaining about dead spots on those Fender models that have
smaller bodies and are more "modern" either. I only hear people
complaining about "dead spots" on classic P and Jazz basses.

Of course a Modulus has not dead spots because it has a Graphite neck
and probably the thin neck of a Rick could make a difference too, but
MusicMan and G&L basses are very "Fender-like" in shape and
construction and none of mine have any hint of dead spots! My
MusicMan is actually an OLP and one G&L is a "Tribute" model, but the
shapes are the same as the real thing.


Reply from: John Bigboote
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 18:32
Re: Dead Spots

On 20 Apr, 06:28, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet,net > wrote:

> This is an interesting point! It got me thinking. I haven't noticed
> anybody complaining about dead spots on those Fender models that have
> smaller bodies and are more "modern" either. I only hear people
> complaining about "dead spots" on classic P and Jazz basses.

Sorry, Benj -- I have a MIM Zone which otherwise plays wonderfully,
but is dead as hell at the D on the G string. Posted about it a while
ago. A lovely, small, light body, but also a super-skinny Jazz neck.

On the other hand, my Classic 60s Jazz (which weighs a ton, and which
I've also written about -- the buzzing in the electronics) has only a
slight deadness, also in the vicinity of the D. I recently played a
Classic 50s P at my LMS, and it had no dead spots anywhere, which I
thought might be due to its oh-so-chunky neck. Or not.

No deadness in my neck-through Schecter. But very little mojo,
either...

-jb

Reply from: Big Cab Daddy
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 15:30
Re: Dead Spots

Disagree about it being a Fender thing in that all my basses are non-
Fender and several have distinct dead spots. My question is do
expensive basses tend to have less dead spots? Is that part of what
you're paying for? (Most of mine are cheapish.)

Reply from: jeffb
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 16:12
Re: Dead Spots

Derek Tearne wrote:

> It's interesting, though, that on this newsgroup, all of the inquiries
> about dead spots are about Fender basses.
>
> One never hears people complaining about dead spots on their
> Rickenbackers, MusicMan, G&L, Modulus - heck any brand except Fender.
>
> I didn't even know there *was* such a thing as a dead spot until read
> about them on this newsgroup - but then I've never owned a Fender bass.
>
> Yes, certainly there have been some major tunes recorded on Fender
> basses - that still doesn't take away what appears fairly clear - Fender
> basses are prone to dead spots.

Wait a second...
Do Rickenbacker, Musicman, G&L, or Modulus make the low end instruments
that Fender does? I'd bet that the quality control on all the above is
much higher than on the non-US Fenders. So first off comparing them to
anything but a US Fender is not fair.

Also consider that there are easily several times more *US* Fenders out
there than all the above *combined*. I'd be willing to bet that if you
looked at the percentage instruments in circulation vs. the percentage
with dead spots US made Fenders wouldn't be higher than anything else.

I'd also be willing to bet that more people buy a Fender WITHOUT
checking it out very thoroughly than they do a Ric, MM, G&L, Modulus,
etc. To tell the truth I don't really have much sympathy for people with
instruments that have bad dead spots. Didn't you play the thing before
you bought it? It's not like a dead spot is something that suddenly
develops, it was there when you took it home.

Reply from: JoeSpareBedroom
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 16:24
Re: Dead Spots

"jeffb" <rigger@shaw.c> wrote in message
news:EbIOj.206629$pM4.87870@pd7urf1no...
> Derek Tearne wrote:
>
>> It's interesting, though, that on this newsgroup, all of the inquiries
>> about dead spots are about Fender basses.
>>
>> One never hears people complaining about dead spots on their
>> Rickenbackers, MusicMan, G&L, Modulus - heck any brand except Fender.
>>
>> I didn't even know there *was* such a thing as a dead spot until read
>> about them on this newsgroup - but then I've never owned a Fender bass.
>>
>> Yes, certainly there have been some major tunes recorded on Fender
>> basses - that still doesn't take away what appears fairly clear - Fender
>> basses are prone to dead spots.
>
> Wait a second...
> Do Rickenbacker, Musicman, G&L, or Modulus make the low end instruments
> that Fender does? I'd bet that the quality control on all the above is
> much higher than on the non-US Fenders. So first off comparing them to
> anything but a US Fender is not fair.
>
> Also consider that there are easily several times more *US* Fenders out
> there than all the above *combined*. I'd be willing to bet that if you
> looked at the percentage instruments in circulation vs. the percentage
> with dead spots US made Fenders wouldn't be higher than anything else.
>
> I'd also be willing to bet that more people buy a Fender WITHOUT checking
> it out very thoroughly than they do a Ric, MM, G&L, Modulus, etc. To tell
> the truth I don't really have much sympathy for people with instruments
> that have bad dead spots. Didn't you play the thing before you bought it?
> It's not like a dead spot is something that suddenly develops, it was
> there when you took it home.


This is why I'd never buy a bass online unless the dealer was prepared to
pay return shipping. Someone will now come along and say they've ordered a
bass sight unseen and had no problems. That is statistically and logically
irrelevant.



Reply from: Derek Tearne
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 06:29
Re: Dead Spots

jeffb <rigger@shaw.c> wrote:

> Derek Tearne wrote:
>
> > It's interesting, though, that on this newsgroup, all of the inquiries
> > about dead spots are about Fender basses.
> >
> > One never hears people complaining about dead spots on their
> > Rickenbackers, MusicMan, G&L, Modulus - heck any brand except Fender.
> >
> > I didn't even know there *was* such a thing as a dead spot until read
> > about them on this newsgroup - but then I've never owned a Fender bass.
> >
> > Yes, certainly there have been some major tunes recorded on Fender
> > basses - that still doesn't take away what appears fairly clear - Fender
> > basses are prone to dead spots.
>
> Wait a second...
> Do Rickenbacker, Musicman, G&L, or Modulus make the low end instruments
> that Fender does?

Well, I have an OLP Musicman bass that doesn't, as far as I have
noticed, have any dead spots - but I'm not sure that's entirely the
point.

People seem to complain about dead spots on Fenders regardless of age
and provenance. It seems that not all Fenders have them, but the ones
that do have them in very predictable places.

There's no surprise expressed at someone mentioning that their Fender
has dead spots.

> I'd also be willing to bet that more people buy a Fender WITHOUT
> checking it out very thoroughly than they do a Ric, MM, G&L, Modulus,
> etc.

I think this is part of it, perhaps the whole of it. Fenders are mass
produced instruments, with a neck and body design perhaps more prone to
dead spots than those of some other manufacturers. At various times in
their history and places of manufacture quality control has been known
to be poor. And yet, people will buy Fender basses sight unseen and
expect them to be great.

The same people would spend a lot more time trying out a really
expensive instrument and, perhaps perversely, a lot more time trying out
a much cheaper instrument.

And yet, despite oft repeated lore that you need to try Fenders
carefully to ensure you get one of the 'keepers', it seems people
continue to buy them without doing simple checks.

Which is pretty much what you said anway.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http :// www .manyhands.co.nz/


Reply from: Walker
Date: 19 Apr 2008, 21:07
Re: Dead Spots


"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:lGoOj.1857$Cn4.98@news02.roc.ny...
> "Derek Homsberg" <dhoms@gmail,com > wrote in message
> news:0PCdnR-HrqfqqZTVnZ2dnUVZ_qiinZ2d@earthlink,com ...
>> What causes a dead spot on a bass neck?
>>
>
>
> It's caused by having the name "Fender" on the bass.
>

I've owned more than a dozen Fender Ps since 1967 and have only had one (63)
with a dead spot. It was inconvenient at first but it was just three notes
on the G string that were easy to avoid and other than sustain those notes
were perfectly fine for staccato and 1/8 notes. I used it in the studio on
hundreds of sessions with various producers and engineers and it was never
an issue. I currently own five (63, 73, 78, 78, 05) Fender Ps and none of
them have dead spots. Am I just lucky or are we simply hearing from a
minority of owners?

Bob Walker
www .walker-entertainment,com



Reply from: JoeSpareBedroom
Date: 19 Apr 2008, 21:12
Re: Dead Spots

"Walker" <walkerent@cox,net > wrote in message
news:9qrOj.12537$CO2.920@newsfe12.phx...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:lGoOj.1857$Cn4.98@news02.roc.ny...
>> "Derek Homsberg" <dhoms@gmail,com > wrote in message
>> news:0PCdnR-HrqfqqZTVnZ2dnUVZ_qiinZ2d@earthlink,com ...
>>> What causes a dead spot on a bass neck?
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's caused by having the name "Fender" on the bass.
>>
>
> I've owned more than a dozen Fender Ps since 1967 and have only had one
> (63) with a dead spot. It was inconvenient at first but it was just three
> notes on the G string that were easy to avoid and other than sustain those
> notes were perfectly fine for staccato and 1/8 notes. I used it in the
> studio on hundreds of sessions with various producers and engineers and it
> was never an issue. I currently own five (63, 73, 78, 78, 05) Fender Ps
> and none of them have dead spots. Am I just lucky or are we simply hearing
> from a minority of owners?
>
> Bob Walker
> www .walker-entertainment,com
>
>


Beats me. All I know is I found 11 out of 12 to be useless during one
shopping trip. Bad day at two different factories? They were a mix of
American & Mexican instruments.



Reply from: Benj
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 00:33
Re: Dead Spots

On Apr 19, 3:07 pm, "Walker" <walker...@cox,net > wrote:

> I currently own five (63, 73, 78, 78, 05) Fender Ps and none of
> them have dead spots. Am I just lucky or are we simply hearing from a
> minority of owners?

Oh I think a little of both! My Fender MIM has no dead spots. If you
listen REALLY carefully, there are a couple of notes where the
character of the tone changes ever so slightly, but you'd never hear
it in real life playing. When I was looking for a Fender, Yeah, I
found some dead spots out there, but 11 out of twelve is sure not what
I found! Basically I think it's just the luck of the wood. I'm
guessing the Fender neck and body design tends to create dead spots
and if the wood isn't perfect they show up. But perfect Fenders
surely exist as you and I attest.

I love my modulus. No dead spots of ANY kind. No neck adjustments
EVER. Tone to burn. Cuts the mix like a hot knife in butter. B string
to die for. But what can I say? The one thing it ain't is an "old
school" Fender! Just no substitute for that!

Benj




Reply from: Steve
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 04:53
Re: Dead Spots

Derek Homsberg wrote:
> What causes a dead spot on a bass neck?
>
>

A bass-player friend told me once that it was caused by the interaction
between the neck and body - a resonance thing that causes the bass to
not resonate at certain frequencies, resulting in a dead spot that kills
the sustain for that note. He claimed that neck-through basses never
exhibited this dead-spot phenomenon.

My copy Jazz bass (hard ash body) had a serious dead spot at the D note
on the A string. It was equipped with a J B Player neck that I had
bought from a music store in Southern California. About 6 years ago I
replaced that neck with a Fender MIM neck, and used #10 x 1-3/4"
stainless screws to bolt it on. The dead spot went away when I did this.

On all of the bolt-on basses I've built in the last 5 years (at least 30
so far) I used 6 bolts instead of four, and ferrules instead of a neck
plate. None of them have had dead spots. I'm thinking that the better
coupling between body & neck provided by the extra screws is improving
the resonance characteristics of the basses thus eliminating the
tendency to have dead spots, but I could be wrong. :-)

--Steve

Reply from: John Bigboote
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 07:05
Re: Dead Spots

On 19 Apr, 19:53, Steve <sm...@sureNOSPAMwest,net > wrote:

> A bass-player friend told me once that it was caused by the interaction
> between the neck and body - a resonance thing that causes the bass to
> not resonate at certain frequencies, resulting in a dead spot that kills
> the sustain for that note. He claimed that neck-through basses never
> exhibited this dead-spot phenomenon.

That sounds reasonable to me, and I've heard it from some reputable
sources (that I can't remember at the moment), but here's the rub: Say
you've got a dead spot at the seventh fret on your G string (this D
seems like the most popular spot for dead notes on Fenders). Well, hit
the 12th fret on the D string and... no deadness. But it's the same
frequency. And it seems logical that any octave of that note would
probably be dead too -- every D on the fretboard. But that ain't the
case. (And if it is, take that sucker back to where you bought it
*right now*!)

-jb

Reply from: jeffb
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 08:36
Re: Dead Spots

John Bigboote wrote:
> On 19 Apr, 19:53, Steve <sm...@sureNOSPAMwest,net > wrote:
>
>> A bass-player friend told me once that it was caused by the interaction
>> between the neck and body - a resonance thing that causes the bass to
>> not resonate at certain frequencies, resulting in a dead spot that kills
>> the sustain for that note. He claimed that neck-through basses never
>> exhibited this dead-spot phenomenon.

LOL.
They certainly can.

Reply from: Steve
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 18:04
Re: Dead Spots

jeffb wrote:
> John Bigboote wrote:
>> On 19 Apr, 19:53, Steve <sm...@sureNOSPAMwest,net > wrote:
>>
>>> A bass-player friend told me once that it was caused by the interaction
>>> between the neck and body - a resonance thing that causes the bass to
>>> not resonate at certain frequencies, resulting in a dead spot that kills
>>> the sustain for that note. He claimed that neck-through basses never
>>> exhibited this dead-spot phenomenon.
>
> LOL.
> They certainly can.

Yes, I've heard that too. But none of the neck-throughs I've owned (1)
or built (4) had dead spots.

--Steve

Reply from: jeffb
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 03:19
Re: Dead Spots

Steve wrote:
> jeffb wrote:
>> LOL.
>> They certainly can.
>
> Yes, I've heard that too. But none of the neck-throughs I've owned (1)
> or built (4) had dead spots.

Neither have any of the many bolt-ons I've owned.

Reply from: Thump
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 08:36
Re: Dead Spots

On Apr 19, 7:53 am, "Derek Homsberg" <dh...@gmail,com > wrote:
> What causes a dead spot on a bass neck?

Resonant frequency of the neck. When a note at or near the resonant
frequency is played, the energy of the note goes into vibrating the
neck, rather than the string, causing the loss in volume/sustain.

On wooden neck basses, you can verify this by (CAREFULLY!) attaching a
padded clamp to the headstock, if you're the experimental type. By
changing the mass of the neck, you change the resonant frequency.

A few years ago you could buy a brass plate which bolted to the back
of a Fender headstock and helped eliminate dead spots.

It's also affected by the material the neck is made out of.

Thump


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