I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

John Bigboote wrote:
> On 7 May, 13:54, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> What about active electronics? Should I be looking for a bass with that
>> feature or does it not really matter?
>
> I don't think it really matters. But I'd bet the vast majority of 5-
> string basses are active.
>
>> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay away from?
>
> I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.
>
> -jb


I have. Mid-90s, JBass setup, active. Wasn't a "Fender" fender, looked
more like a Carvin. I don't actually know what model it was; blue
metalflakish finish. The 5 string J of the guy I play with now works,
too.

--
Les Cargill

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On 7 May, 19:38, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr,com > wrote:

> > I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.

> I have. Mid-90s, JBass setup, active. Wasn't a "Fender" fender, looked
> more like a Carvin.

Well, then, that wouldn't be a Fender, would it?

-jb

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr,com > wrote in
news:48226769$0$7041$4c368faf@roadrunner,com :

> John Bigboote wrote:
>> On 7 May, 13:54, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
>>
>>> What about active electronics? Should I be looking for a bass with
>>> that feature or does it not really matter?
>>
>> I don't think it really matters. But I'd bet the vast majority of 5-
>> string basses are active.
>>
>>> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay
>>> away from?
>>
>> I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.
>>
>> -jb
>
>
> I have. Mid-90s, JBass setup, active. Wasn't a "Fender" fender, looked
> more like a Carvin. I don't actually know what model it was; blue
> metalflakish finish. The 5 string J of the guy I play with now works,
> too.

If you said it was passive, and red/white/sunburst I would have guessed
an MB-5 (which is what I play)... but I can't place that one.

--
Aaron

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

The BorgMan wrote:
> Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr,com > wrote in
> news:48226769$0$7041$4c368faf@roadrunner,com :
>
>> John Bigboote wrote:
>>> On 7 May, 13:54, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about active electronics? Should I be looking for a bass with
>>>> that feature or does it not really matter?
>>> I don't think it really matters. But I'd bet the vast majority of 5-
>>> string basses are active.
>>>
>>>> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay
>>>> away from?
>>> I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.
>>>
>>> -jb
>>
>> I have. Mid-90s, JBass setup, active. Wasn't a "Fender" fender, looked
>> more like a Carvin. I don't actually know what model it was; blue
>> metalflakish finish. The 5 string J of the guy I play with now works,
>> too.
>
> If you said it was passive, and red/white/sunburst I would have guessed
> an MB-5 (which is what I play)... but I can't place that one.
>


It's like that, but old enough I don't know exactly what model name.

--
Les Cargill

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 7, 9:24 pm, John Bigboote <Bigboote....@gmail,com > wrote:
> On 7 May, 13:54, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:

> > What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay away from?
>
> I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.

I'd rate my Fender 5 with an "acceptable" B string. It definitely is
NOT a "to die for" B string! My Modulus has that but then it's a 35"
scale too. On the other hand, my bass doesn't have any of the
"traditional" Fender "dead spots" on the neck either. The bottom line
to me in Fender is I want the convenience of a 5 string AND I want
that special Fender sound too. So I have to compromise just a tad on
the B string quality to get it. The bonus seemed to be in my case no
dead spots. As always you have to try things to see what you think.
But I agree with John that if you are looking for a "to die for" B
string, I've never seen it on a Fender. But to my taste (and I"m
reasonably picky about B strings...remember I've got things like a
Modulus and a Ken Smith to go to if I so choose) the Fender B is not
what I'd call "unacceptable". And I can assure you that I HAVE seen
unacceptable B strings. Floppy beyond belief. You play an open E it
rings forever, you play E on the B string and it sounds like an
upright! My Fender is sure NOT one of those! In fact it's sitting
right here as I was copping some of Rich's blues licks with it from
the MP3s he posted a while back! Dig. You ask the question: "What key
is that tune in?" Grab the bass. Slide the blues pattern around the 5
string neck. Bingo. There it is! Love it. Yeah, perfect pitch is
simpler, but that's not me.

Benj
(Who is still amazed at the freakin' TONE Rich gets out of his bass.
But as I recall he "cheats" by having moved the neck pickup much
closer to the fretboard end. )

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

> (Who is still amazed at the freakin' TONE Rich gets out of his bass.

Rich who?

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

>> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay away from?
>
> I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.

I've got one, its B string is solid. American Deluxe Jazz V. I think
it's the Transparent Red color that makes the B string so nice.

The nicest thing about Fender fives is they don't have a dead spot on
the G string, like every Fender four-string does.

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 8, 1:57 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
> >> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay away from?
>
> > I've never played a Fender 5 with an acceptable B string. YMMV.
>
> I've got one, its B string is solid. American Deluxe Jazz V. I think
> it's the Transparent Red color that makes the B string so nice.
>
> The nicest thing about Fender fives is they don't have a dead spot on
> the G string, like every Fender four-string does.

When do I get to play that thing, by the way?

Corey

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 7, 4:54 pm, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
> "Benj" <bjac...@iwaynet,net > wrote in message
>
> news:7e1f32f2-efca-40a8-9881-d76e99103be3@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups,com ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > John Bigboote wrote:
>
> >> Going from four to five is easy. Going from five to four is a bitch.
> >> Once you get used to how easy it is to play further on up the neck, it
> >> takes some adjustment to go back down near the nut. Playing songs in
> >> Ebm is no longer a carpal tunnel accident waiting to happen.
>
> > John is right on. Lets talk philosophy. Bass guitars are 4 strings not
> > because God intended it that way, but because upright basses had 4
> > strings. The reason for that was that the size of the usual upright
> > meant that acoustically a B string would be too low to have any decent
> > volume produced. Electrification with bass guitars eliminated that
> > reason. But by then 99.9% of songs worked with 4 strings. And people
> > got used to it. (Personally I never did! Back in the old days when I
> > played 4 strings I always had this feeling in my gut that there had to
> > be a better way than cutting off the range at E. My first 5er
> > eliminated the feeling forever!)
>
> > So what about going to a "real"* bass? Some 4 string guys really
> > resist it. But note that even hard core like Boomie grudgingly was
> > forced to come around at least a little bit. Making the transition in
> > my book is easy. The neck doesn't feel all that fat and all you have
> > to do is get your head around E being the second "highest" string!
> > What that much buys you is a few notes below E. Terrific for horns or
> > key songs (think Eb). Good for rock with Synth-bass lines (one reason
> > 5s became popular). And you really don't need to learn much more.
>
> > Some guys stop right here. They are the kind who like to play way up
> > at the nut so as to include the maximum number of open string notes
> > and get the best tone and sustain. It's OK, but with modern basses you
> > don't really need to do that anymore. Where 5 string basses really
> > shine is when you move up the neck! You get your head around the scale
> > patterns up there and now you have total freedom to play in any key. I
> > must confess it took me a time to get there, in fact, it was getting a
> > 6 string bass that forced me into learning the mid neck scales and all
> > that automatically just transferred back to 5s so nice. That was when
> > I finally realized that a 5 was a "real" bass! *
>
> > * All "real" basses have 5 or more strings!
>
> > Today 5 great 5 string basses are out there for a song. Hey even
> > upright symphony guys play 5 strings today! It all makes so much
> > sense.
>
> > I very much agree with the opinions here that OLP, Yamaha and Ibanez
> > are all killer 5 string buys. I even own a 5 string Fender (though the
> > B string while OK is a bit less than stellar). Cripes, even my Rondo
> > music SX (ash body and shielding added) 5 string blows the doors off
> > many basses at a price so low you can't believe it. And there are
> > many others out there. Shop around.
>
> > HOWEVER, as others have noted, the "floppiness" of the B string is a
> > key issue when choosing and once you get the "up the neck" thing
> > you'll realize that the "true test" of any 5er regardless of price
> > will be the "floppiness" of the B string and the test you have to run
> > where you compare the tone of the Open E string to the same E note
> > played on the B string. They should never sound appreciably different
> > either in tone or sustain. So go test basses. Find the one that feels
> > good, has the tone you love, and passes the "up the neck" test, and go
> > for it!
>
> > After that your problem will be, as John says, not playing the 5 but
> > trying to switch back to the 4!
>
> > Reject those urges from your reptilian brain. Evolution has long since
> > left it behind!
>
> > Good luck and welcome to the world of "real" basses!
>
> > Benj
>
> Thanks Benj!
>
> What about active electronics? Should I be looking for a bass with that
> feature or does it not really matter?
>
> What about Fender 5'ers? Are there any brands that I should stay away from?
>
the newer fender 5s are very close in feel to EB5 - which is very
nice.
excellent B string tension.
if i didn't already have the EB5 i'd have gotten a fender if the
fenders at the time i was searching for a decent 5 were any good.

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

Okay, do you suffer from FBS? If you DO have Floppy B-string Syndrome,
there is hope.

I've noticed that no one has talked about string tension, but this is
critical to curing FBS. The Thomastik Infeld Jazz Flats have a B
string that has the same tension as their E string. No floppiness.
So I would definitely check out the rated string tension of your B .

As mentioned before, the longer the scale the easier it is o increase
tension/reduce floppiness. I have a Steingerber EUB with a 41.5 scale
length = no FBS,

The other thing is to play the B string closer to the bridge of the
instrument, and that will help alleviate some of the floppiness.

But there ARE a lot of sucky 5 stringer basses out there...

As to adapting to a 5 string bass, it takes a bit of time but after a
few weeks you'll love it. Especially if you play with horns, do jazz
standards - it's great to have a low Eb and a low D, C, etc..

cheers

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

Benj <bjacoby@iwaynet,net > wrote:

> John Bigboote wrote:
> >
> > Going from four to five is easy. Going from five to four is a bitch.
> > Once you get used to how easy it is to play further on up the neck, it
> > takes some adjustment to go back down near the nut. Playing songs in
> > Ebm is no longer a carpal tunnel accident waiting to happen.
>
> John is right on. Lets talk philosophy. Bass guitars are 4 strings not
> because God intended it that way, but because upright basses had 4
> strings. The reason for that was that the size of the usual upright
> meant that acoustically a B string would be too low to have any decent
> volume produced.

This is only partially correct. The main issue with upright basses was
the string technology, not size per se. Over the centuries the number
of strings has varied between 3 and 5 (sometimes 6) strings depending on
who made it and when - this is not a progression, some of the earlier
basses were 5 string basses - although these may have had higher, rather
than lower fifth strings.

Once strings had improved, metal over gut being one of the major
improvements, four strings became fairly 'normal' - probably sometime in
the 19th century - at this time the EADG tuning would have taken hold.
Many older basses have been converted from 3 string to 4 string.

However, basses with a low C have existed for a long time - the approach
has traditionally been to add an extension - often played with 'keys' -
to the 'E' string. A similar idea to the 'D' tuners used on some 4
string electric basses. Given the much wider string spacing on an
upright bass 5 strings end up with particularly wide necks - which makes
them harder to play than a four or three string upright. This, coupled
with it being easier to fit a 'C' extension to an old or special
sounding upright than to fit an additional string, is why 5 string
uprights are relatively rare.

The extensions are 'C' extensions not because a 'B' would be too quiet,
but because this takes them an octave below the cello and very little
(if any) orchestral music calls for lower notes. Basses with 'C'
extensions seem rare in jazz, blues and rock and roll circles though.

Also, several other an completely unrelated bass stringed instruments
also have four strings (mandobass, the giant regal and dobro acoustic
bass guitars from the 1930's, the giant gibson electric bass guitar from
the 1940's, the gehu (bass member of the 'hu' family), the fretted
upright used in eastern europe etc.).

Leo Fender would likely have been familiar with the mandobass, dobro and
regal instruments as well as the upright bass - but most likely from
popular (jazz/rock n roll/blues) styles, so it's unclear whether he was
thinking 'all the upright basses I've ever seen have four strings' or
'all the basses I've ever seen have four strings'.

Of course we'll never know for sure.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http :// www .manyhands.co.nz/

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 7, 7:02 pm, de...@url.co.nz (Derek Tearne) wrote:

> However, basses with a low C have existed for a long time - the approach
> has traditionally been to add an extension - often played with 'keys' -
> to the 'E' string. A similar idea to the 'D' tuners used on some 4
> string electric basses. Given the much wider string spacing on an
> upright bass 5 strings end up with particularly wide necks - which makes
> them harder to play than a four or three string upright. This, coupled
> with it being easier to fit a 'C' extension to an old or special
> sounding upright than to fit an additional string, is why 5 string
> uprights are relatively rare.
>
> The extensions are 'C' extensions not because a 'B' would be too quiet,
> but because this takes them an octave below the cello and very little
> (if any) orchestral music calls for lower notes. Basses with 'C'
> extensions seem rare in jazz, blues and rock and roll circles though.

I do remember back when I played upright all the symphony guys had "C"
extensions. But nobody I saw EVER in the local music scene in any
genre had a "C" extension except the symphony cats. But the thing
that impressed me most about the Symphony was that when they played
low E that sucker was LOUD! When I played Low E on my bass, man that
thing was just about ready to quit and if I'd added a lower string it
would have been an exercise in futility since I'd have been playing
away and no sound at all would have been coming out! And as far as I
could tell, my bass was pretty typical of the basses played in the
local band and pop scene. I guess huge amounts of cash can get you a
better sounding bass.

Like you say we can't be sure what was in Leo's mind when he put
together his bass guitar, but I do know for sure that among the band/
pop scene of the day we all simply took as a "given" that basses all
had 4 strings! I'd be surprised if Leo was not also under the same
influence. But who knows? He may have been into the classical scene
and was aware of all the details there. But in any case I still
regard the 5 string bass guitar as a nice step forward in bassology! I
still notice a reluctance on the part of Fender to embrace 5 string
basses and they don't even make a "real" 6 string. (Baritones don't
count) By the way if cash is no object, there are some Fender clones
made in Nashville, I think they are called "Low End" or something like
that, that are REALLY nice and can be had in 5 and 6 string versions.
Get out your wallet though!

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 6, 5:43 pm, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
> I have been a four banger for years, but lately I have been having thoughts
> of getting a 5 string. Should I give into the urge or up my medication?
>
> See I figure that 99.99999999% of all rock, blues, R&B, C&W, etc. music was
> played on a 4 string bass and probably 95% of those were some sort of
> Fender.
>
> Lately though I have been playing in strange keys Eb, Db, etc. and think
> that it might be easier to play with a 5 string.
>
> I have toyed with one in the past for a few songs at a jam a while ago. My
> impression was that I had to stop thinking that the top string was an E. I
> also found the tight string spacing to be a little akward. I liked it
> though.
>
> So if I do listen to my reptilian brain and buy a 5er, what would you
> recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> DA

i've been playing a EB5 since about '02
played a cort for about a year before that.
had a yamaha before that.
i'm playing a fender PJ4 now.
the P pickup is so deep and punchy that for now i don't miss the low B.

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

On May 6, 5:43 pm, "Axtman" <daxtATpacifierDOTcom> wrote:
> I have been a four banger for years, but lately I have been having thoughts
> of getting a 5 string. Should I give into the urge or up my medication?
>
> See I figure that 99.99999999% of all rock, blues, R&B, C&W, etc. music was
> played on a 4 string bass and probably 95% of those were some sort of
> Fender.
>
> Lately though I have been playing in strange keys Eb, Db, etc. and think
> that it might be easier to play with a 5 string.
>
> I have toyed with one in the past for a few songs at a jam a while ago. My
> impression was that I had to stop thinking that the top string was an E.

On a side note, it always puzzles me when guys call the E string the
"top" string. Doesn't it make more sense that the lowest notes are
played on the "bottom" string?

Back to your question, I got a cheap 5 string a couple years back for
certain situations. Since I don't play it a lot, it take a lot of
concentration. I found that shortening my strap helped out (I usually
have my 4 strings low-ish).

Mike

Re: I'm having unnatural urges....about a 5 string.

Axtman wrote:
> I have been a four banger for years, but lately I have been having thoughts
> of getting a 5 string. Should I give into the urge or up my medication?
>
> See I figure that 99.99999999% of all rock, blues, R&B, C&W, etc. music was
> played on a 4 string bass and probably 95% of those were some sort of
> Fender.

---Yeah, but on a song like "Can't Get Enough" in C, you can walk right
on down an octave lower, adds plenty of variety for a bass player...
On "War Pigs", I use the low "D" alot...
Tunes using low "G" sound fuller when you play it in the middle of the
neck....ect....