Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

snip
> The
>stars who play name brand guitars get money from the manufacturer for
>it unless they are among the stupid musicians that are around. A few
>of them have written on this thread. Furthermore, IMO, a luthier is
>one who makes acoustic instruments not some fucking carpenter that
>builds planks and assembles electronics. Nuff said.
>
>TS
>
>
Not always true...I recently saw Pat Benetar, and Neil Geraldo was
playing GMP guitars which he may have been paid to do at one
time...but I think they're out of business....so I doubt he was being
paid.

Please check out my music....
http :// www .soundclick,com /bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

What brand of typewriter did Hemingway use? Could it be not that
important what brand instruments exceptional musicians play?

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

MWC wrote:
> What brand of typewriter did Hemingway use?

A Royal.

> Could it be not that
> important what brand instruments exceptional musicians play?

It isn't.

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.


"jeffb" <rigger@shaw.c> wrote in message
news:13TPj.88695$Cj7.914@pd7urf2no...
> MWC wrote:
>> What brand of typewriter did Hemingway use?
>
> A Royal.
>
>> Could it be not that
>> important what brand instruments exceptional musicians play?
>
> It isn't.

Some years ago I owned a musical instrument store. I had to tell moms and
pops over and over that the concept of "good enough for a beginner" just
didn't make sense. A pro can play any instrument, a beginner or less
capable player needs all the help he can get from his instrument. More
directly to the point of this thread, I think the "big name" guys are
playing instruments so heavily modded to their needs that they are
effectively hand builts. They probably aren't that concerned about it, it's
just something they and their aids do because they can. If any of these
guys grabbed a cheap off the shelf guitar you probably couldn't tell the
difference just listening to them. When I played acoustic guitar on stage
more I used to play a cheap Ibanez thin body with a black finish. The sound
was mediocre, but it was sturdy and had a very nice handling neck. I had,
and have, much better guitars but that one was my choice for stage use.

Gerry

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.


"pTooner" <someguy@onthe,net > wrote in message
news:7o_Rj.66237


<snip>
When I played acoustic guitar on stage
> more I used to play a cheap Ibanez thin body with a black
> finish. The sound was mediocre, but it was sturdy and had a
> very nice handling neck. I had, and have, much better
> guitars but that one was my choice for stage use.
>
> Gerry

This reasoning is exactly why I use my Crate BX100 on stage
and keep the Eden/Bagend/Ampeg rig in the studio. It works
great on stage and I never know when the amp has to stay
outside all night or somebody (even me sometimes) is gonna
puke on it.

Peace
dawg

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.


"We Can Do It" <CanDo@motivation,com > wrote in message
news:t4GdncH9x-6V4IXVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@earthlink,com ...
It works
> great on stage and I never know when the amp has to stay outside all night
> or somebody (even me sometimes) is gonna puke on it.
>
I like this guy...

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

Brian Running <brunning@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:

> > So what are the big name players playing?
>
> Aside from the cynically-selective nature of your list, I gotta say, if
> Johnny Cash, John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Robert Johnson, Hank Williams,
> Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimi Hendrix and Chet Atkins are playing their
> Fenders, Martins and Gibsons at all anymore, then by God, you're right.

Indeed - it should be strictly harps or accordians for those boys now.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http :// www .manyhands.co.nz/

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

Hmmmm...
I agree, in general.

If it was worth my trouble, I would have my trousers tailor-made. I
have odd dimensions, and bluejeans tend to fit weird.

It's easier to buy cheap jeans than to worry about caring for some
ridiculous overpriced tailor-made pants. They are just pants!

I feel the same way about guitars. I won't buy expensive vintage pants
OR guitars, just because someone else collects them. I respect the
history and collectible aspects, but really I just want blue jeans and
guitars like I'm used to.

At some point, some variations of both jeans (fades, flares, etc) and
guitars (pickups, tremolos, paint-jobs) go into and out of style.
Sometimes I follow the trends a little bit. Mostly I just wear, and
play, what suits me.

But just like I don't wear the same pants everyday, I don't play the
same guitar for every song.

That's why I still own a Strat, a Tele and a LP. Martin guitars don't
usually react well to my playing, so I own a Taylor acoustic that
does.

These guitars fit me just right, but I had to try many before I found
the ones that did.

That reminds me. I need new jeans. Ugh.

-dave-----:::
www .myspace,com /geetardave

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

Jeremy,

You are certainly welcome to hold to your beliefs. Why you wish to share
them, rather relentlessly, with us is not clear.
The first artist on your list is Eric Clapton. There's a book on the
shelves in my local library describing the construction of a custom acoustic
guitar by a luthier for Mr. Clapton. I suspect you're wrong on many other
facts as well.
I do know musicians who use factory made guitars on the road because they
are cheap and replaceable. They keep their good instruments at home.
Having said that I'll also say that many factories put out some very good
guitars.

Dave M.

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

On Apr 21, 11:44 am, "David L. Martel" <marte...@earthlink,net > wrote:
> Jeremy,
>
> You are certainly welcome to hold to your beliefs. Why you wish to share
> them, rather relentlessly, with us is not clear.
> The first artist on your list is Eric Clapton. There's a book on the
> shelves in my local library describing the construction of a custom acoustic
> guitar by a luthier for Mr. Clapton. I suspect you're wrong on many other
> facts as well.
> I do know musicians who use factory made guitars on the road because they
> are cheap and replaceable. They keep their good instruments at home.
> Having said that I'll also say that many factories put out some very good
> guitars.
>
> Dave M.

I've read that book.

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

MartinGibsonTaylor <Jeremy.Deats@gmail,com > wrote:
>
> I've read that book.

So, when you said in your original post "To tell you the truth, I'm
struggling to think of a single player who uses private lutheir built
instruments." you were simply lying.

Nice bit ot trolling though. You must be proud.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http :// www .manyhands.co.nz/

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.


>
> > I've read that book.
>
> So, when you said in your original post "To tell you the truth, I'm
> struggling to think of a single player who uses private lutheir built
> instruments." you were simply lying.
>
> Nice bit ot trolling though. You must be proud.
>

Nope, see my other post... No evidence at all Clapton uses or even
liked the finsished product Henderson built for him. This book was one
of the catalyst for my post actually. Thinking of how long Clapton
waited to get this guitar and how he didn't have a single word to say
about it after the fact. Did you read that book? There's not any
record of Clapton having ever played that guitar live or recorded with
the Henderson built guitar that book covers. It's account is of
Clapton visiting a recording studio and seeing a Henderson guitar (for
the first time), he played on it and commented on the fret board being
nice a flat and it sounding "ringey", he liked it. The next thing we
see happening is Clapton being prompositioned "would you like one".
Clapton says "yes I would". Just another guitar to add to his
collection, except he had to wait 10 years to get his Henderson and as
I said there is no real closing to the book, we never hear Clapton's
comments on this private lutheried guitar and in fact as I pointed out
in one of my other post C.F. Martin's artist signature model deals DO
NOT prevent Clapton or any artist from playing live with or being
photographed with some other brand of guitar. One would think Clapton
would have at least offered some comment for the book if he was blown
away (and the author would have been a fool not to try and contact
Clapton)

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

MartinGibsonTaylor <Jeremy.Deats@gmail,com > wrote:

> >
> > > I've read that book.
> >
> > So, when you said in your original post "To tell you the truth, I'm
> > struggling to think of a single player who uses private lutheir built
> > instruments." you were simply lying.
> >
> > Nice bit ot trolling though. You must be proud.
> >
>
> Nope, see my other post... No evidence at all Clapton uses or even
> liked the finsished product Henderson built for him.

In my first response to your post I included a comprehensive list of
guitars clapton has used - it was easy to find and includes several
luthier made instruments.

The point still stands, you are deliberately ignoring evidence,
including evidence you have admitted to knowing, wherever it goes
against your premise.

--- Derek


--
Derek Tearne - derek@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http :// www .manyhands.co.nz/

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

In article <7dd23d7b-2ea0-470c-8385-86beae7f04d8
@b9g2000prh.googlegroups,com >, Jeremy.Deats@gmail,com says...

>
> Nope, see my other post... No evidence at all Clapton uses or even
> liked the finsished product Henderson built for him. This book was one
> of the catalyst for my post actually. Thinking of how long Clapton
> waited to get this guitar and how he didn't have a single word to say
> about it after the fact. Did you read that book? There's not any
> record of Clapton having ever played that guitar live or recorded with
> the Henderson built guitar that book covers. It's account is of
> Clapton visiting a recording studio and seeing a Henderson guitar (for
> the first time), he played on it and commented on the fret board being
> nice a flat and it sounding "ringey", he liked it. The next thing we
> see happening is Clapton being prompositioned "would you like one".
> Clapton says "yes I would". Just another guitar to add to his
> collection, except he had to wait 10 years to get his Henderson and as
> I said there is no real closing to the book, we never hear Clapton's
> comments on this private lutheried guitar and in fact as I pointed out
> in one of my other post C.F. Martin's artist signature model deals DO
> NOT prevent Clapton or any artist from playing live with or being
> photographed with some other brand of guitar. One would think Clapton
> would have at least offered some comment for the book if he was blown
> away (and the author would have been a fool not to try and contact
> Clapton)
>
>

These guys live on a different planet than the rest of us. Clapton has
something like 300+ guitars and he probably paid for very few of them.
Others he can write off as a business expense. Beyond endorsement deals,
companies and small builders give away guitars all the time in hopes an
artist will maybe play them. These are written off as a promotional
expense. Rickenbacker gave away Rics to the Beatles on their first trip
to New York and the rest is history. PRS got started by building a
guitar he thought Carlos Santana would like and giving it to him. A
couple versions later he did manage to build one Carlos liked. I've
heard that Fender's Custom Shop sends out artist guitar a bunch at a
time. Clapton gets 10, Knopfler got 6, etc. Brad Paisley got a bunch of
paisley Teles from a custom builder. From those they pick favorites,
some are to cover possible thefts, and others get given away to other
artists, and still others to charities. Harrison's Strat was a gift from
Clapton. Marty Stewart got a bunch of guitars, including the Clarence
Tele, from Clarence White's widow. There was an article in VG not long
ago about how Tom Petty & Mike Campbell go vintage shopping, along the
lines of 'yeah we bought up every AC30 we could find and picked out the
good ones'.

Anyway, what's over rated IMO is the guitar magazine definition of
quality. A perfect finish or neck pocket fit has very little to do with
how a guitar will sound or play. Put another way, a Lexus has better fit
and finish than a Ferrari, but I know which I'd rather have. Guitars are
organic and although the best luthiers are really good at picking out
pieces of wood that will sound good, there's no guarantee how the
finished product will turn out. For example, is the string response
balanced with no hot or dead spots along the neck? There's also the
problem of translating what the player say he wants into what the
builder understands. Play a half dozen Custom Shop Tele's or Historic
Les Pauls and some will be magic. For those who say they don't build
like they used to, play a half dozen Martins of any vintage and some
will be magic, some will be so-so, and some will be dogs.

Re: Why I feel private lutheirs are largely over rated.

On Apr 20, 11:08 pm, RMZ <Jeremy.De...@gmail,com > wrote:
>

<snip>

>
> When we get into what is "high quality" the little nuances that we
> loose with mass produced guitars are a small price to pay for superior
> design and consistency, the list of artist above prove this.


Suppose Clapton calls Fender's CEO personally and insists on a regular
off-the-line strat(highly unlikely...I know). The CEO of Fender calls
the production plant and tells the production line supervisor " send
Clapton a guitar".

I guarantee you if the production line supervisor wants to continue
working with Fender, he is going to have his best shop "luthiers" hand
pick the guitar to send to Clapton.

Production line supervisor then communicates to CEO that Clapton's
"regular" production guitar is on it's way.



So even if such were the case, it would not be a production model the
same as you are I get off the Fender production line. :) Marty