Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

Brian Running wrote:

> Sure seems that way. It also seems that Guitar Hero has created the
> impression that hard work and talent are not really all that necessary
> to play an instrument well. I may be wrong, but I just don't see as
> many kids really working hard to get good at... well, to get good at
> anything, really.

Wow. I see it from a very different perspective. I see the younger
generation as obsessive about their interests and not particularly well
rounded. They don't just play computer games a few hours per week, they
play them all the time. They don't just go skateboarding (or BMX bike
riding) every other day, they spend hours upon hours learning tricks. I
see teens playing all sorts of fancy licks on their instruments that
must have taken a lot of time to learn.

What I don't seem to see as much is somebody has okay/good at several
things all at once.

>> To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
>> honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
>> last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
>> religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry
>> Manilow.
>
> Uh oh! Not the dreaded closed mind! Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> godawful music!

Two of my favorite songwriters. I can't recall having covered any of
their songs except "I'm a Believer" and "Red Red Wine". I think Neil
Diamond could have sung in a harder genre and excelled. Manilow's stuff
has a way of getting in my head.



--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

On May 1, 12:50 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
> > But I imagine that, with the success of American Idol, the market is permanently
> > flooded with every knucklehead who thinks being a karaoke weekend
> > warrior is all the training you need to be a rock 'n' roll star.
>
> Sure seems that way.  It also seems that Guitar Hero has created the
> impression that hard work and talent are not really all that necessary
> to play an instrument well.  I may be wrong, but I just don't see as
> many kids really working hard to get good at...  well, to get good at
> anything, really.
>
> > To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
> > honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
> > last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
> > religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry Manilow.
>
> Uh oh!  Not the dreaded closed mind!  Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> godawful music!

I see what you're saying about Guitar Hero, but on the other side, My
kids have been exposed to and picked up on some really cool music
through Guitar Hero and they are obsessed with playing music now.
Ther are 7 and 10 and practice their "real guitars" for hours every
day. A lot of that excitment came from Guitar Hero. Just another
perspective.

While we are voicing opinions, I like Neil Diamond. Could take or
leave Barry Manilow.

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

In article
<9f67dd18-4f19-4eb8-837e-2b95d07a0807@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >,
RJM <mcdermott.robert@gmail,com > wrote:

> On May 1, 12:50 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
> > > But I imagine that, with the success of American Idol, the market is
> > > permanently
> > > flooded with every knucklehead who thinks being a karaoke weekend
> > > warrior is all the training you need to be a rock 'n' roll star.
> >
> > Sure seems that way.  It also seems that Guitar Hero has created the
> > impression that hard work and talent are not really all that necessary
> > to play an instrument well.  I may be wrong, but I just don't see as
> > many kids really working hard to get good at...  well, to get good at
> > anything, really.
> >
> > > To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
> > > honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
> > > last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
> > > religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry
> > > Manilow.
> >
> > Uh oh!  Not the dreaded closed mind!  Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> > Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> > godawful music!
>
> I see what you're saying about Guitar Hero, but on the other side, My
> kids have been exposed to and picked up on some really cool music
> through Guitar Hero and they are obsessed with playing music now.
> Ther are 7 and 10 and practice their "real guitars" for hours every
> day. A lot of that excitment came from Guitar Hero. Just another
> perspective.
>
> While we are voicing opinions, I like Neil Diamond. Could take or
> leave Barry Manilow.

I can't stand Neil Diamond. But I have to admit he's written some damn
fine songs that others have had hits with. Can't think of one right now
but when I hear them and look up the songwriter sure enough there he is.
There is, however, one song of his I did in a band and it was a knock
out. "Solitary Man". Great tune for bars.

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

bvoiced wrote:
> In article
> <9f67dd18-4f19-4eb8-837e-2b95d07a0807@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >,
> RJM <mcdermott.robert@gmail,com > wrote:
>
>> On May 1, 12:50 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
>>>> But I imagine that, with the success of American Idol, the market is
>>>> permanently
>>>> flooded with every knucklehead who thinks being a karaoke weekend
>>>> warrior is all the training you need to be a rock 'n' roll star.
>>> Sure seems that way. It also seems that Guitar Hero has created the
>>> impression that hard work and talent are not really all that necessary
>>> to play an instrument well. I may be wrong, but I just don't see as
>>> many kids really working hard to get good at... well, to get good at
>>> anything, really.
>>>
>>>> To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
>>>> honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
>>>> last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
>>>> religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry
>>>> Manilow.
>>> Uh oh! Not the dreaded closed mind! Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
>>> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
>>> godawful music!
>> I see what you're saying about Guitar Hero, but on the other side, My
>> kids have been exposed to and picked up on some really cool music
>> through Guitar Hero and they are obsessed with playing music now.
>> Ther are 7 and 10 and practice their "real guitars" for hours every
>> day. A lot of that excitment came from Guitar Hero. Just another
>> perspective.
>>
>> While we are voicing opinions, I like Neil Diamond. Could take or
>> leave Barry Manilow.
>
> I can't stand Neil Diamond. But I have to admit he's written some damn
> fine songs that others have had hits with. Can't think of one right now
> but when I hear them and look up the songwriter sure enough there he is.
> There is, however, one song of his I did in a band and it was a knock
> out. "Solitary Man". Great tune for bars.

Cash covered it. Good enough for me.

--
Les Cargill

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers


"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX,net > wrote in message
news:%wmSj.8018$iK6.3027@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc,com ...
>
> Uh oh! Not the dreaded closed mind! Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> godawful music!

As mentioned elsewhere, Diamond has a bunch of stuff that works at various
volumes/intensities.

I still want to do Manilow's "Weekend in New England" as a metal
power-ballad.



--
--Llarry Amrose

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in
practice, there is.
-- Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

I think John's disgust with the singers' "Manilow love" is less about
Barry, and more about the GENRE

What's happened is that the schlockiest songwriters and hammy-est vocalists
(Celene Dion anyone?) of the last 30 years, have been melded into this new
"American Idol" music genre. It's like Adult Contemporary on steroids.

Granted, Diamond and Manilow are hit making songwriters with cult
followings, but neither are particularly good SINGERS - Neil especially. I
mean, Lou Ferigno could do a decent version of "Forever In Blue Jeans".

But take their songs, give them a "hip hop lite" beat, and put them in the
hands of vacuous 20 somethings who do 10 second melismas at the end of every
phrase, and you have the birth of a new style of music.






"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX,net > wrote in message
news:%wmSj.8018$iK6.3027@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc,com ...
> > But I imagine that, with the success of American Idol, the market is
permanently
> > flooded with every knucklehead who thinks being a karaoke weekend
> > warrior is all the training you need to be a rock 'n' roll star.
>
> Sure seems that way. It also seems that Guitar Hero has created the
> impression that hard work and talent are not really all that necessary
> to play an instrument well. I may be wrong, but I just don't see as
> many kids really working hard to get good at... well, to get good at
> anything, really.
>
> > To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
> > honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
> > last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
> > religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry
Manilow.
>
> Uh oh! Not the dreaded closed mind! Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> godawful music!

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

On 1 May, 09:50, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:

> > To cap it off, he's got (IMHO) godawful taste in music. Tonight he
> > honestly suggested covering songs by both Neil Diamond (apparently
> > last night was Neil Diamond night on American Idol, which he watches
> > religiously, and which I've never seen) and -- wait for it -- Barry Manilow.
>
> Uh oh! Not the dreaded closed mind! Maybe Neil Diamond and Barry
> Manilow tunes don't fit your band's set list, but that doesn't make it
> godawful music!

Hence the IMHO...

-jb

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

> Hence the IMHO...

Oh, I know, John. Don't worry about it. But this is a subject that
comes up pretty often -- how someone will have a bias against a song
because of the performer who first did it, or because they're afraid if
they touch a certain performer's material that they'll be considered
"uncool" by their friends, or things like that. I had that discussion
with some bandmates within the last year -- "Ewww ! I won't do that
song! That's a Journey song!" No, it's not! It's a song, and when you
do it, it's your song.

I think it's a shame when musicians put the blinders on and refuse to
see how they can make a song their own. As I said, John, Diamond and
Manilow probably don't fit your band at all, that's perfectly
understandable. But, maybe you can see my point from the perfect
example: "The Last Kiss," an old hit by J. Frank Wilson, which I
considered to be maybe the worst song of all time, at least in the top
five. Awful, awful, awful. Awful. Then, Pearl Jam re-made it. The
lyrics hadn't changed, they're still awful, but their interpretation and
performance of the song makes it a whole new thing. They made it
theirs, and that required them to look past the original performance and
see what they could do with it.

Of course, this is what jazz guys have been doing for generations. The
concept should be equally applicable to pop and rock.

Go ahead and laugh, but I can hear in my head right now that Barry
Manilow's song, "Even Now," could be an excellent power ballad, complete
with distorted guitars and a screaming, Santana-wail guitar solo -- or a
B.B. King-type blues solo. Leave out the broadway-style arrangement,
make it spare and sparse, add some soul, leave out the key change, it
could kill.

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

Brian Running wrote:
> I think it's a shame when musicians put the blinders on and refuse to
> see how they can make a song their own. As I said, John, Diamond and
> Manilow probably don't fit your band at all, that's perfectly
> understandable. But, maybe you can see my point from the perfect
> example: "The Last Kiss," an old hit by J. Frank Wilson, which I
> considered to be maybe the worst song of all time, at least in the top
> five. Awful, awful, awful. Awful. Then, Pearl Jam re-made it. The
> lyrics hadn't changed, they're still awful, but their interpretation and
> performance of the song makes it a whole new thing. They made it
> theirs, and that required them to look past the original performance and
> see what they could do with it.

To me, that's the perfect example of a band not making the song theirs
and doing it simply because they can. They didn't change the
arrangement, and didn't do anything creative with the vocal or
instrumentation. When I heard that version, I was thinking that if they
wanted to do an oldies song they should have re-interpreted WE FIVE's
version of "You Were On My Mind".
With the guitar stuff and the vocal right in the sweet spot, they could
have ripped it up and really made it their own.
Instead, they took something restrained and threw another wet blanket
over it.

Monkey Pi
--

|o| o , o ,' o , |o|
|O| <%'. `' === <\ |O|
(0) / | ( )`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

On May 2, 11:14 am, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
> > Hence the IMHO...
>
> Oh, I know, John. Don't worry about it. But this is a subject that
> comes up pretty often -- how someone will have a bias against a song
> because of the performer who first did it, or because they're afraid if
> they touch a certain performer's material that they'll be considered
> "uncool" by their friends, or things like that. I had that discussion
> with some bandmates within the last year -- "Ewww ! I won't do that
> song! That's a Journey song!" No, it's not! It's a song, and when you
> do it, it's your song.
>
> I think it's a shame when musicians put the blinders on and refuse to
> see how they can make a song their own. As I said, John, Diamond and
> Manilow probably don't fit your band at all, that's perfectly
> understandable. But, maybe you can see my point from the perfect
> example: "The Last Kiss," an old hit by J. Frank Wilson, which I
> considered to be maybe the worst song of all time, at least in the top
> five. Awful, awful, awful. Awful. Then, Pearl Jam re-made it. The
> lyrics hadn't changed, they're still awful, but their interpretation and
> performance of the song makes it a whole new thing. They made it
> theirs, and that required them to look past the original performance and
> see what they could do with it.
>
> Of course, this is what jazz guys have been doing for generations. The
> concept should be equally applicable to pop and rock.
>
> Go ahead and laugh, but I can hear in my head right now that Barry
> Manilow's song, "Even Now," could be an excellent power ballad, complete
> with distorted guitars and a screaming, Santana-wail guitar solo -- or a
> B.B. King-type blues solo. Leave out the broadway-style arrangement,
> make it spare and sparse, add some soul, leave out the key change, it
> could kill.

Where Rock Stars Go When They Die

When Jerry Garcia died, he woke up and found himself on a stage on
which a number of instruments were set up. A door offstage opened and
in walked Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Brian Jones, John Lennon, Otis
Redding and Buddy Holly.

Each musician picked up his favorite instrument and began tuning up.

Jerry walked up to Jimi and said, "Man, so this is what heaven is
like."

Jimi looked at him and said, "Heaven? You think this is heaven?"

At that moment, Karen Carpenter walked in, took her seat behind the
drums, and called out, "Okay guys, 'Close to You.' One, two, three,
four!"

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

> At that moment, Karen Carpenter walked in, took her seat behind the drums, and called out, "Okay guys, 'Close to You.'

That is a funny story, but I have to say I would be honored to play
with Karen Carpenter.

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

On 2 May, 08:14, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
> > Hence the IMHO...
>
> Oh, I know, John. Don't worry about it. But this is a subject that
> comes up pretty often -- how someone will have a bias against a song
> because of the performer who first did it, or because they're afraid if
> they touch a certain performer's material that they'll be considered
> "uncool" by their friends, or things like that. I had that discussion
> with some bandmates within the last year -- "Ewww ! I won't do that
> song! That's a Journey song!" No, it's not! It's a song, and when you
> do it, it's your song.

It's cool, Brian. When I joined the project in November, it was
understood to be a party/dance band. The singer, in his first month
with us -- his first band -- wasted no time trying to pull it in a
very different direction, bugging us to play Garth Brooks, Journey and
Daughtry -- because that's what he sings when he goes out for karaoke.
It happens that I can't stand any of that music. And more to the
point, it ain't what I signed on for, hence my disgust. Of course you
don't know me, or my bandmates, or the type(s) of songs we're playing,
but no one is inclined to attempt to rearrange songs. We're weekend
warriors; currently once-a-week rehearsals and once-a-month gigs. With
that kind of schedule, and everyone's level of musicianship, it's not
realistic to do radical rearrangements of songs, no matter how hokey.

I'd love to completely rearrange some songs to push them way out there
on the edge, or just make them freaking fun. For ages, I've wanted to
do Clapton's (Cale's?) "Cocaine" as a polka. I think it would be a
hoot, and the tempo would be so appropriate for the subject matter.
I'd hate to do the original arrangement of that song. There are other
songs I've wanted to do as punk arrangements, or reggae or even
country, but it's been a *very* hard sell to the guys I've been
playing with (in my last two projects), and I've all but given up.

That said, the singer in question wasn't suggesting reworking "Mandy"
as a ska song. He was talking about playing "Mandy." ("We named our
daughter Mandy because I love the song so much!" Blech.)

The fact that he's a karaoke singer just makes it that much more
annoying for me.

Harumph,

-jb

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

John Bigboote wrote:
> On 2 May, 08:14, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
>>> Hence the IMHO...
>> Oh, I know, John. Don't worry about it. But this is a subject that
>> comes up pretty often -- how someone will have a bias against a song
>> because of the performer who first did it, or because they're afraid if
>> they touch a certain performer's material that they'll be considered
>> "uncool" by their friends, or things like that. I had that discussion
>> with some bandmates within the last year -- "Ewww ! I won't do that
>> song! That's a Journey song!" No, it's not! It's a song, and when you
>> do it, it's your song.
>
> It's cool, Brian. When I joined the project in November, it was
> understood to be a party/dance band. The singer, in his first month
> with us -- his first band -- wasted no time trying to pull it in a
> very different direction, bugging us to play Garth Brooks, Journey and
> Daughtry -- because that's what he sings when he goes out for karaoke.
> It happens that I can't stand any of that music. And more to the
> point, it ain't what I signed on for, hence my disgust. Of course you
> don't know me, or my bandmates, or the type(s) of songs we're playing,
> but no one is inclined to attempt to rearrange songs. We're weekend
> warriors; currently once-a-week rehearsals and once-a-month gigs. With
> that kind of schedule, and everyone's level of musicianship, it's not
> realistic to do radical rearrangements of songs, no matter how hokey.
>
> I'd love to completely rearrange some songs to push them way out there
> on the edge, or just make them freaking fun. For ages, I've wanted to
> do Clapton's (Cale's?) "Cocaine" as a polka. I think it would be a
> hoot, and the tempo would be so appropriate for the subject matter.
> I'd hate to do the original arrangement of that song. There are other
> songs I've wanted to do as punk arrangements, or reggae or even
> country, but it's been a *very* hard sell to the guys I've been
> playing with (in my last two projects), and I've all but given up.
>
> That said, the singer in question wasn't suggesting reworking "Mandy"
> as a ska song. He was talking about playing "Mandy." ("We named our
> daughter Mandy because I love the song so much!" Blech.)
>

It's not Mandy anymore. It's Quagmire now.

> The fact that he's a karaoke singer just makes it that much more
> annoying for me.
>
> Harumph,
>
> -jb

--
Les Cargill

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

Les Cargill wrote:
> John Bigboote wrote:
>> On 2 May, 08:14, Brian Running <brunn...@XXameritechXX,net > wrote:
>>>> Hence the IMHO...
>>> Oh, I know, John. Don't worry about it. But this is a subject that
>>> comes up pretty often -- how someone will have a bias against a song
>>> because of the performer who first did it, or because they're afraid if
>>> they touch a certain performer's material that they'll be considered
>>> "uncool" by their friends, or things like that. I had that discussion
>>> with some bandmates within the last year -- "Ewww ! I won't do that
>>> song! That's a Journey song!" No, it's not! It's a song, and when you
>>> do it, it's your song.
>>
>> It's cool, Brian. When I joined the project in November, it was
>> understood to be a party/dance band. The singer, in his first month
>> with us -- his first band -- wasted no time trying to pull it in a
>> very different direction, bugging us to play Garth Brooks, Journey and
>> Daughtry -- because that's what he sings when he goes out for karaoke.
>> It happens that I can't stand any of that music. And more to the
>> point, it ain't what I signed on for, hence my disgust. Of course you
>> don't know me, or my bandmates, or the type(s) of songs we're playing,
>> but no one is inclined to attempt to rearrange songs. We're weekend
>> warriors; currently once-a-week rehearsals and once-a-month gigs. With
>> that kind of schedule, and everyone's level of musicianship, it's not
>> realistic to do radical rearrangements of songs, no matter how hokey.
>>
>> I'd love to completely rearrange some songs to push them way out there
>> on the edge, or just make them freaking fun. For ages, I've wanted to
>> do Clapton's (Cale's?) "Cocaine" as a polka. I think it would be a
>> hoot, and the tempo would be so appropriate for the subject matter.
>> I'd hate to do the original arrangement of that song. There are other
>> songs I've wanted to do as punk arrangements, or reggae or even
>> country, but it's been a *very* hard sell to the guys I've been
>> playing with (in my last two projects), and I've all but given up.
>>
>> That said, the singer in question wasn't suggesting reworking "Mandy"
>> as a ska song. He was talking about playing "Mandy." ("We named our
>> daughter Mandy because I love the song so much!" Blech.)
>>
>
> It's not Mandy anymore. It's Quagmire now.

---The "giggity-giggity" Quagmire?

Re: Tonight's rant: Karaoke singers

suds mcduff wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
<snip>
>> It's not Mandy anymore. It's Quagmire now.
>
> ---The "giggity-giggity" Quagmire?


Yes!

--
Les Cargill