Add group to favorites
Back to post list
Send new message to group Search:
Post Subject:
Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
In article <cpmdt2da1koecg85a1fkklifr53mgi7im4@4ax,com >, dee
<nomail@nomail,com > wrote:
> Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
> Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
I think it's a shame Yamaha seems to have dropped its amp sim line: I
prefer the basic character of theirs to any of the ones I've tried
(including Line 6 and Vox).
But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
presence.
Vox does better in this respect.
In article <cpmdt2da1koecg85a1fkklifr53mgi7im4@4ax,com >, dee
<nomail@nomail,com > wrote:
> Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
> Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
I think it's a shame Yamaha seems to have dropped its amp sim line: I
prefer the basic character of theirs to any of the ones I've tried
(including Line 6 and Vox).
But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
presence.
Vox does better in this respect.
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
"Kropotkin" <a@a,com > kirjoitti viestissä
news:170220071208108159%a@a,com ...
> In article <cpmdt2da1koecg85a1fkklifr53mgi7im4@4ax,com >, _dee
> <nomail@nomail,com > wrote:
>
> > Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
> > Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
>
> I think it's a shame Yamaha seems to have dropped its amp sim line:
I
> prefer the basic character of theirs to any of the ones I've tried
> (including Line 6 and Vox).
>
> But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
> nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
> presence.
>
> Vox does better in this respect.
My very subjective personal opinions. 1. I own the Yamaha-one , and 2.
I tried my friends Tonelab.
Tonelab had two very good simulations to my ears, boutique clean and
boutique overdrive (or similar).
A nice feature in Tonelab was that you could adjust the gain of pre-
or power-amp simulations separately.
There are also separate gain and master volume controls in Yamaha, but
the master volume is only for
actual volume.
I haven't noticed this lack of high's in Yamaha. But i don't use
cabinet simulators, because i'm using a
guitar amp with a real speaker so then it's best not to use that.
The controllability with a pedal or midi is good in Yamaha - i don't
know about Vox.
The only good effect in Vox was chorus. The others - i didn't like
them, at least compared
to Yamaha.
--Risto
"Kropotkin" <a@a,com > kirjoitti viestissä
news:170220071208108159%a@a,com ...
> In article <cpmdt2da1koecg85a1fkklifr53mgi7im4@4ax,com >, _dee
> <nomail@nomail,com > wrote:
>
> > Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between the DG-Stomp and the
> > Tonelab. Does the DG get anywhere close?
>
> I think it's a shame Yamaha seems to have dropped its amp sim line:
I
> prefer the basic character of theirs to any of the ones I've tried
> (including Line 6 and Vox).
>
> But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
> nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
> presence.
>
> Vox does better in this respect.
My very subjective personal opinions. 1. I own the Yamaha-one , and 2.
I tried my friends Tonelab.
Tonelab had two very good simulations to my ears, boutique clean and
boutique overdrive (or similar).
A nice feature in Tonelab was that you could adjust the gain of pre-
or power-amp simulations separately.
There are also separate gain and master volume controls in Yamaha, but
the master volume is only for
actual volume.
I haven't noticed this lack of high's in Yamaha. But i don't use
cabinet simulators, because i'm using a
guitar amp with a real speaker so then it's best not to use that.
The controllability with a pedal or midi is good in Yamaha - i don't
know about Vox.
The only good effect in Vox was chorus. The others - i didn't like
them, at least compared
to Yamaha.
--Risto
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:32:52 +0200, "Risto Kuusisto" <tenETSIPibuut@kjotsir>
wrote:
>>
>> But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
>> nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
>> presence.
I have a DG Stomp and a first-gen Valvetronix AD60, as well as a POD 2.
Contrary to your experience I find the Yamaha is the only one with an extended
high end, so it does the kind of good strong cleans the others are almost
useless for. That same high end can make the distorted tones pretty noisy though
without some good tweaking.
As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
gain, set-up or model selected. Maybe the newer ones(including the Tonelab) are
better, but I've had it with simulators.
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:32:52 +0200, "Risto Kuusisto" <tenETSIPibuut@kjotsir>
wrote:
>>
>> But the problem with the Yamaha sims is that they've got basically
>> nothing going on above about 5 or 6kHz. So they are dull and lack
>> presence.
I have a DG Stomp and a first-gen Valvetronix AD60, as well as a POD 2.
Contrary to your experience I find the Yamaha is the only one with an extended
high end, so it does the kind of good strong cleans the others are almost
useless for. That same high end can make the distorted tones pretty noisy though
without some good tweaking.
As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
gain, set-up or model selected. Maybe the newer ones(including the Tonelab) are
better, but I've had it with simulators.
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
> As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
> run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
> able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
> digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
> gain, set-up or model selected.
I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
this purpose...)
When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
begins at about 5k.
In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
> As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
> run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
> able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
> digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
> gain, set-up or model selected.
I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
this purpose...)
When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
begins at about 5k.
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
Kropotkin wrote:
> In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
> Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
>
>
>>As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
>>run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
>>able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
>>digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
>>gain, set-up or model selected.
Sounds like a lot of digital gear.
>
>
> I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
>
> As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
> then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
> this purpose...)
>
> When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
> begins at about 5k.
Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
Are you doing this with some sort of speaker emulation?
Kropotkin wrote:
> In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
> Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
>
>
>>As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
>>run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
>>able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
>>digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
>>gain, set-up or model selected.
Sounds like a lot of digital gear.
>
>
> I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
>
> As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
> then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
> this purpose...)
>
> When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
> begins at about 5k.
Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
Are you doing this with some sort of speaker emulation?
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:27:00 -0800, Jim <askme@beforeyousend,com > wrote:
>Kropotkin wrote:
>
>> In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
>> Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
>>>run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
>>>able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
>>>digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
>>>gain, set-up or model selected.
>
>Sounds like a lot of digital gear.
Yep....The POD has some nasty edges to it when trying to go clean or just a
little dirty, and most of my ME-50's distortions are all but useless unless just
barely driven; and the whole pedal is capable of some horrible noise if the
input is pushed a hair too hot. The DG Stomp (and AG Stomp - got one of those
too) are less prone to these issues.
>> I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
Always got me to hear all these people raving how the Valvetronix sounds exactly
like their vintage AC30 or better...either ther amp is much better than mine, or
more likely about 90% of guitar players don't know WTF they're hearing.
>>
>> As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
>> then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
>> this purpose...)
>>
>> When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
>> begins at about 5k.
>
>Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
>view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
>
>A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
Right - a 5K rolloff is par for a real guitar amp/speaker and is pretty much
beyond a guitar's useful spectrum. You can't judge a guitar amp by hi-fi
standards.
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:27:00 -0800, Jim <askme@beforeyousend,com > wrote:
>Kropotkin wrote:
>
>> In article <s3mbu2h4lak4v98u803g5e5vvupsgunj4f@4ax,com >, Burnham
>> Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As for the Valvetronix, I've tried half-a-dozen different speakers in it, I've
>>>run the line out to lots of different amps & mixer setups, and I've never been
>>>able to get rid of its basically dirty sound. It's not "good" dirty, it's a
>>>digital kind of false-overtone distortion that's always there regardless of
>>>gain, set-up or model selected.
>
>Sounds like a lot of digital gear.
Yep....The POD has some nasty edges to it when trying to go clean or just a
little dirty, and most of my ME-50's distortions are all but useless unless just
barely driven; and the whole pedal is capable of some horrible noise if the
input is pushed a hair too hot. The DG Stomp (and AG Stomp - got one of those
too) are less prone to these issues.
>> I know exactly what you mean - I'm glad someone else hears it!
Always got me to hear all these people raving how the Valvetronix sounds exactly
like their vintage AC30 or better...either ther amp is much better than mine, or
more likely about 90% of guitar players don't know WTF they're hearing.
>>
>> As for the Yamaha, try this for me: put some white noise through it and
>> then run a frequency analysis on the output (many plugins available for
>> this purpose...)
>>
>> When I do this (on both DG and Magic Stomp), I see a steep rolloff that
>> begins at about 5k.
>
>Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
>view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
>
>A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
Right - a 5K rolloff is par for a real guitar amp/speaker and is pretty much
beyond a guitar's useful spectrum. You can't judge a guitar amp by hi-fi
standards.
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
In article <fpulu211ls4fopfrmpocj0a3q8eampkvm6@4ax,com >, Burnham
Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
> Right - a 5K rolloff is par for a real guitar amp/speaker and is pretty much
> beyond a guitar's useful spectrum. You can't judge a guitar amp by hi-fi
> standards.
I know that's the received wisdom - it's just that my ears tell me it's
false.
Eg, tele into eq into Princeton reverb. If the highs are rolled off
above 15khz, my aging rock and roll ears can't hear the difference. But
if they are rolled off at 10k, it sounds dull to me.
Is your experience different?
In article <fpulu211ls4fopfrmpocj0a3q8eampkvm6@4ax,com >, Burnham
Treezdown <dolphins@inmy,net > wrote:
> Right - a 5K rolloff is par for a real guitar amp/speaker and is pretty much
> beyond a guitar's useful spectrum. You can't judge a guitar amp by hi-fi
> standards.
I know that's the received wisdom - it's just that my ears tell me it's
false.
Eg, tele into eq into Princeton reverb. If the highs are rolled off
above 15khz, my aging rock and roll ears can't hear the difference. But
if they are rolled off at 10k, it sounds dull to me.
Is your experience different?
Re: Opinions on Yamaha DG Stomp -vs- Vox Tonelab
In article <12ugr3f1h4veb78@corp.supernews,com >, Jim
<askme@beforeyousend,com > wrote:
> Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
> view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
>
> A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
>
> Are you doing this with some sort of speaker emulation?
Yes. The Vox sims have quite a bit more going on above 5k, and so, to
me, sound more life-like (and are easier to sit in a mix).
In article <12ugr3f1h4veb78@corp.supernews,com >, Jim
<askme@beforeyousend,com > wrote:
> Q - What happens if you feed random noise through a guitar speaker, then
> view it with a calibrate mic and real time analyzer?
>
> A - You get a rather steep rolloff that begins at about 5k.
>
> Are you doing this with some sort of speaker emulation?
Yes. The Vox sims have quite a bit more going on above 5k, and so, to
me, sound more life-like (and are easier to sit in a mix).
