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Can playing covers get you sued?
"Angus" <angusporridge@hotmail . com > wrote in message
news:QOidnTM7utK5ZIbbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@magma.ca...
> "Brian Running" wrote:
>>
>> It's even better here in the US, David -- here, consumers have the choice
>> between "data" CD-Rs (cheap) and "music" CD-Rs (expensive) which are
>> identical in every way except price.
>
> As someone that makes a living writing and publishing computer software, I
> have to say that totally sucks... they should slap a levy on the "data"
> CD-Rs and give the money to me. How come musicians have such clout?
> <ducks> ;-)
As someone who sells millions of CD-R and DVDR discs each you, I'd say
you're all wet. ;)
Glenn D.
Um, I believe I DID say it was a civil, not criminal case. In fact, that was
the crux of my rant. I also said that they (as well as the "liberal media")
DELIBERATELY confuse the two.
And the reason they don't go after musicians is that musicians don't have
SHIT. They tried that in the late '70's and there were so many fake names
floating around it was ridiculous. So they went after the "deep pockets"
All of which is utterly ridiculous to me as a cover band is nothing but FREE
ADVERTISING for your artist. The band wouldn't be playing them if the artist
wasn't hot, and the artist wouldn't BE hot if his single wasn't in the
moron's faces 24/7. People know what they like and like what they know.
If anything, ASCAP/BMI should be paying US.
But I digress...
--
Check out my band, West Eats Meat * w w w .myspace . com /westeatsmeat
My Homepage, Back By Popular Demand: * w w w .jmsjazz . com
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it
comes out."
- Bill Hicks
"Benj" <bjacoby@iwaynet . net > wrote in message
news:1176098513.810939.291600@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups . com ...
>
> js wrote:
> > People seem to confuse "rights organizations" with "copyright
> > infringement" - which I'm sure is EXACTLY what the corporate overlords
of
> > the music business want I'm sure.
> >
> > Thing is ASCAP (of which I am a sometime member), BMI etc. have no LEGAL
> > authority to charge you with copyright violations, other than
compensation
> > for their artists. They are PRIVATE organizations, and as such DO NOT
have
> > the ability on their own to charge you with a crime or to put you in
jail,
> > any more than the Shriners do.
>
> This is is true, unless they are in cahoots with local police (see
> example in this thread) but they DO have the ability to sue you as
> copyright owners. And it's worse than that, back when, there was an
> agreement between bar owners and ASCAP & BMI that made the current
> arrangement of fees charged to bar owners that are supposed to be
> divided among all member composers. But as it usual in the legal biz,
> if some venue is blowing them off for years, they don't just sue for
> back fees, but add that mythical "damages" and "penalties" which they
> would be hard pressed to prove in court (although banks and gummint do
> this all the time which is nothing more than setting fees at whatever
> you feel like at the time) but the prospect of heavy duty legal fees
> forces bar owners to cave. In this case he paid some back year fees,
> which let's face it, he really owed, but they also socked him with
> $750 each for three songs just to teach him a lesson. The idea was, of
> course, his lawyer would have cost him much more.
>
> > And I'm sure ASCAP/BMI COULD put together a criminal case if they wanted
and
> > get someone to prosecute. But why bother, when these guys will readily
hand
> > over their money to the schoolyard bully for free?
> >
> > If it were me, and the place was already losing money, I'd file
bankruptcy
> > rather than pay. Fuck 'em
>
> Actually it's a civil case rather than criminal one. It's about going
> against the settlement made some years ago between owners and ASCAP &
> BMI. But let me tell you I remember how it was BEFORE this agreement!
> In those days the goons used to come after MUSICIANS! Fake books were
> totally illegal and you had to keep them really low and hidden at
> gigs. You had to keep an eye out for enforcers and if you spotted one,
> you had to be sure you played only public domain "standards". Of
> course the good news was that in those days copyrights didn't extend
> back forever the way they do now. As long as you steered away from pop
> hits you were pretty safe if the fake book was kept low level. And
> then on top of that there were the Union goons. If you didn't have
> union cards they'd hit you up for dues and then hit up the venue for
> fees. If you refused to pay, they'd bust up the joint (well, actually
> an hour later some OTHER goons would suddenly come in the bar, order a
> drink and then start a fight to bust up the joint). Ah! The good old
> days! Now the whole hassle has moved onto to bar owners. And in some
> cases it couldn't happen to guys more deserving. But you do hate to
> see a guy trying to promote live music in his venue raked over the
> coals for trying to promote the very copyrighted songs these guys are
> using as excuses for extortion. You wouldn't want the old way of
> making the bands pay the fees, but since musicians are usually dirt
> poor anyway, they went for the "deep pockets" of the venue owners
> instead. Decided you can't get blood from a turnip!
>
> Obviously many of these organizations supposedly representing the
> interests of musicians and songwriters never heard the tale of the
> goose that laid the golden egg.
>
> Benj
>
the crux of my rant. I also said that they (as well as the "liberal media")
DELIBERATELY confuse the two.
And the reason they don't go after musicians is that musicians don't have
SHIT. They tried that in the late '70's and there were so many fake names
floating around it was ridiculous. So they went after the "deep pockets"
All of which is utterly ridiculous to me as a cover band is nothing but FREE
ADVERTISING for your artist. The band wouldn't be playing them if the artist
wasn't hot, and the artist wouldn't BE hot if his single wasn't in the
moron's faces 24/7. People know what they like and like what they know.
If anything, ASCAP/BMI should be paying US.
But I digress...
--
Check out my band, West Eats Meat * w w w .myspace . com /westeatsmeat
My Homepage, Back By Popular Demand: * w w w .jmsjazz . com
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it
comes out."
- Bill Hicks
"Benj" <bjacoby@iwaynet . net > wrote in message
news:1176098513.810939.291600@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups . com ...
>
> js wrote:
> > People seem to confuse "rights organizations" with "copyright
> > infringement" - which I'm sure is EXACTLY what the corporate overlords
of
> > the music business want I'm sure.
> >
> > Thing is ASCAP (of which I am a sometime member), BMI etc. have no LEGAL
> > authority to charge you with copyright violations, other than
compensation
> > for their artists. They are PRIVATE organizations, and as such DO NOT
have
> > the ability on their own to charge you with a crime or to put you in
jail,
> > any more than the Shriners do.
>
> This is is true, unless they are in cahoots with local police (see
> example in this thread) but they DO have the ability to sue you as
> copyright owners. And it's worse than that, back when, there was an
> agreement between bar owners and ASCAP & BMI that made the current
> arrangement of fees charged to bar owners that are supposed to be
> divided among all member composers. But as it usual in the legal biz,
> if some venue is blowing them off for years, they don't just sue for
> back fees, but add that mythical "damages" and "penalties" which they
> would be hard pressed to prove in court (although banks and gummint do
> this all the time which is nothing more than setting fees at whatever
> you feel like at the time) but the prospect of heavy duty legal fees
> forces bar owners to cave. In this case he paid some back year fees,
> which let's face it, he really owed, but they also socked him with
> $750 each for three songs just to teach him a lesson. The idea was, of
> course, his lawyer would have cost him much more.
>
> > And I'm sure ASCAP/BMI COULD put together a criminal case if they wanted
and
> > get someone to prosecute. But why bother, when these guys will readily
hand
> > over their money to the schoolyard bully for free?
> >
> > If it were me, and the place was already losing money, I'd file
bankruptcy
> > rather than pay. Fuck 'em
>
> Actually it's a civil case rather than criminal one. It's about going
> against the settlement made some years ago between owners and ASCAP &
> BMI. But let me tell you I remember how it was BEFORE this agreement!
> In those days the goons used to come after MUSICIANS! Fake books were
> totally illegal and you had to keep them really low and hidden at
> gigs. You had to keep an eye out for enforcers and if you spotted one,
> you had to be sure you played only public domain "standards". Of
> course the good news was that in those days copyrights didn't extend
> back forever the way they do now. As long as you steered away from pop
> hits you were pretty safe if the fake book was kept low level. And
> then on top of that there were the Union goons. If you didn't have
> union cards they'd hit you up for dues and then hit up the venue for
> fees. If you refused to pay, they'd bust up the joint (well, actually
> an hour later some OTHER goons would suddenly come in the bar, order a
> drink and then start a fight to bust up the joint). Ah! The good old
> days! Now the whole hassle has moved onto to bar owners. And in some
> cases it couldn't happen to guys more deserving. But you do hate to
> see a guy trying to promote live music in his venue raked over the
> coals for trying to promote the very copyrighted songs these guys are
> using as excuses for extortion. You wouldn't want the old way of
> making the bands pay the fees, but since musicians are usually dirt
> poor anyway, they went for the "deep pockets" of the venue owners
> instead. Decided you can't get blood from a turnip!
>
> Obviously many of these organizations supposedly representing the
> interests of musicians and songwriters never heard the tale of the
> goose that laid the golden egg.
>
> Benj
>
"js" <NOSPAM@carolina.rr . com > wrote in message
news:461b4523$0$17153$4c368faf@roadrunner . com ...
> All of which is utterly ridiculous to me as a cover band is nothing but
> FREE
> ADVERTISING for your artist. The band wouldn't be playing them if the
> artist
> wasn't hot, and the artist wouldn't BE hot if his single wasn't in the
> moron's faces 24/7. People know what they like and like what they know.
How about looking at it from their perspective? A bunch of talentless hacks
sit around waiting for the *real* musicians to come up with the good songs.
The hacks get paid to do a poor imitation so the local bar can make some
money as well. Every Friday and Saturday night 500 bands around the country
are doing "Play That Funky Music" because they know it will get the crowd
going. And those bastards think they are doing *us* a favor by copying our
music. They think it's a rip-off for a bar owner to pay $5 to $10 per day to
have the rights to a huge catalog of music. What a bunch of cheapskate
freeloaders.
news:461b4523$0$17153$4c368faf@roadrunner . com ...
> All of which is utterly ridiculous to me as a cover band is nothing but
> FREE
> ADVERTISING for your artist. The band wouldn't be playing them if the
> artist
> wasn't hot, and the artist wouldn't BE hot if his single wasn't in the
> moron's faces 24/7. People know what they like and like what they know.
How about looking at it from their perspective? A bunch of talentless hacks
sit around waiting for the *real* musicians to come up with the good songs.
The hacks get paid to do a poor imitation so the local bar can make some
money as well. Every Friday and Saturday night 500 bands around the country
are doing "Play That Funky Music" because they know it will get the crowd
going. And those bastards think they are doing *us* a favor by copying our
music. They think it's a rip-off for a bar owner to pay $5 to $10 per day to
have the rights to a huge catalog of music. What a bunch of cheapskate
freeloaders.
Are you making enough $$ of the songs for "the greedy people" to notice?
--
-rob Bartlett, TN
O>
/(\)
^^
"ADL" <ADL@Comcast . net > wrote in message
news:ZLCdnefMoYdTeYXbnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@comcast . com ...
> * w w w .blogs.oregonlive . com /oregonian//newsupdates/default.asp?item=214112
--
-rob Bartlett, TN
O>
/(\)
^^
"ADL" <ADL@Comcast . net > wrote in message
news:ZLCdnefMoYdTeYXbnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@comcast . com ...
> * w w w .blogs.oregonlive . com /oregonian//newsupdates/default.asp?item=214112
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