Peak Oil

Peak Oil


http :// www .theoildrum,com /node/4019

"Robert Hirsch, author of Peaking of World Oil Production:
Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management (a.k.a. the
Hirsch Report), appeared on CNBC this morning. He said flat
out that new technologies and new drilling won't solve the
peak oil problem, and that we should expect $12-15/gallon
gasoline followed by rationing."




--

http :// 911research.wtc7,net

Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http :// 911research.wtc7,net /wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html
http :// davesweb.cnchost,com /nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http :// 911research.wtc7,net /talks/wtc/videos.html

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http :// www ,com mondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http :// www .corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type!

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http :// www .robert-fisk,com /iraqwarvictims mar2003.htm

http :// www ,com mondreams.org/
http :// thirdworldtraveler,com /

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let Bush do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Re: Peak Oil

Henry wrote:
>
> http :// www .theoildrum,com /node/4019
>
> "Robert Hirsch, author of Peaking of World Oil Production:
> Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management (a.k.a. the
> Hirsch Report), appeared on CNBC this morning. He said flat
> out that new technologies and new drilling won't solve the
> peak oil problem, and that we should expect $12-15/gallon
> gasoline followed by rationing."

Does that mean I should keep my Virago 250? What about all the people
who have bought the big SUV's? These monsters are still selling around
here; I see lots of new ones.

SQ

Re: Peak Oil

In article <ni3Zj.155692$rd2.78167@pd7urf3no>, Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm>
wrote:

> Henry wrote:
> >
> > http :// www .theoildrum,com /node/4019
> >
> > "Robert Hirsch, author of Peaking of World Oil Production:
> > Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management (a.k.a. the
> > Hirsch Report), appeared on CNBC this morning. He said flat
> > out that new technologies and new drilling won't solve the
> > peak oil problem, and that we should expect $12-15/gallon
> > gasoline followed by rationing."
>
> Does that mean I should keep my Virago 250?

Yeah, keep it until it's uneconomical, and then scrap it.

> What about all the people
> who have bought the big SUV's? These monsters are still selling around
> here; I see lots of new ones.

Basically, they're fucked. They will eventually have to scrap their
fatmobiles.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http :// www .timberwoof,com /motorcycle/faq.shtml
Ten Steps to Fascism: http :// www .guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Re: Peak Oil

On May 21, 11:24 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@infernosoft,com >
wrote:
> Basically, they're fucked. They will eventually have to scrap their
> fatmobiles.

Some food for thought on the peak oil myth by Irwin Stelzer:

Another myth: we are running out of oil. According to
WorldPublicOpinion.org "majorities in 15 of the 16 nations surveyed
around the world think that oil is running out. . . . Only 22 percent
on average believe that 'enough oil will be found so that it can
remain a primary source of energy for the foreseeable future'." Those
majorities who think we are running out of oil include 76 percent of
the American citizens polled. Luckily, they are wrong.

Production of oil is being constrained by several forces, none of them
due to God's failure to put enough of the black gold under our feet.
Several countries that are important sources of supply are in
political turmoil, and unable to bring to market the oil they are
currently capable of producing. Think Nigeria, where security problems
have shut down about 20 percent of the nation's 2.5 million barrels of
capacity, and discouraged new investment, and Iraq, where political
paralysis and terrorists have kept production at less than half of its
potential. Other countries will not develop the reserves of oil known
to lie under their territories.

Russia has made it clear that foreigners who invest in its oil
industry might be playing a game with Vladimir Putin known as heads I
win, tails you lose. Find nothing and you lose your money; find
substantial reserves and the state squeezes you until your
shareholders' pips squeak. Only companies at least 51 percent owned by
Russians--read FOPs, Friends of Putin--are allowed to look for oil in
the new, difficult areas in which it is to be found. Little surprise
that Russian oil output dropped in the first quarter of this year.

Mexico's President Felipe Calderon wants to revive Petroleos de Mexico
(Pemex), the world's third-largest oil producer, by contracting with
foreign companies to introduce modern methods of extracting more from
existing fields and finding new ones. But legislation is stalled by
left-wingers who have seized and are sleeping at podiums in both house
of congress.

Saudi Arabia's royal family has announced that it will not expand
capacity. Abdullah Jum'ah, CEO of the kingdom's oil company, says that
high prices don't mean the world needs more oil because such market
signals are "imperfect," and Ali Naimi, the kingdom's energy minister,
has announced that there are no plans to embark on a new round of
expansion. The oil is there, but with current production yielding
about $120 per barrel, there is no incentive to find more, especially
since new production might drive down prices as demand for oil from
the slowing American economy drops.

Venezuela's oil industry can only be described as a mess. President
Hugo Chávez's cronies are inadequate substitutes for the technicians
they have replaced, so production is falling, while foreign investors
are reluctant to trust hundreds of millions in exploration dollars to
a regime that treats contracts as the first step in a negotiation.

Here in America, Congress alternates between calls for "energy
independence" and refusals to allow drilling in what it considers
environmentally sensitive areas in Alaska and offshore California and
Florida. There's more, but you get the idea. There is a lot of oil out
there to be found and produced, not even including the vast reserves
in Canada's tar sands. We might have reached the age of peak panic
about oil supplies, but not of peak oil.

One thing we think we know about the oil business is correct. High oil
prices and the greenhouse gasses produced by using oil have important
geopolitical consequences. These $100+ prices have led to a massive
flow of wealth, and hence power, from consuming to producing
countries. If oil were still priced at $20 or even $40 per barrel
Russia would not have the wherewithal to revert to its bullying
foreign policy, and America's banks would not be going hats-in-hand to
Arab capitals in search of new capital. If gasoline prices had not
closed in on $4 per gallon in the United States, thousands of SUVs and
small trucks would not be sitting, unsold and unloved, on dealers'
lots. If oil had not pierced the $100 per barrel level, and was not
seen as a pollutant, the current enthusiasm for super-expensive
nuclear power would not have reached a fever pitch. And if oil did not
produce so-called greenhouse gasses when propelling cars and heating
homes, there would be no massive subsidies for ethanol production,
acreage would not be diverted from growing food to growing fuel, and
the current run-up in food prices would be less steep, and food riots
would not be breaking out around the world.

So oil indeed matters. But not in the ways we most often think.

Cheers,
Tim Kreitz
2004 ZRX1200R
2003 ZX7R
DoD #2184
http :// www .timkreitz,com

Re: Peak Oil

Tim Kreitz wrote:
> On May 21, 11:24 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@infernosoft,com >
> wrote:
>> Basically, they're fucked. They will eventually have to scrap their
>> fatmobiles.
>
> Some food for thought on the peak oil myth by Irwin Stelzer:
>
> Another myth: we are running out of oil. According to
> WorldPublicOpinion.org "majorities in 15 of the 16 nations surveyed
> around the world think that oil is running out. . . . Only 22 percent
> on average believe that 'enough oil will be found so that it can
> remain a primary source of energy for the foreseeable future'." Those
> majorities who think we are running out of oil include 76 percent of
> the American citizens polled. Luckily, they are wrong.
>
> Production of oil is being constrained by several forces, none of them
> due to God's failure to put enough of the black gold under our feet.
> Several countries that are important sources of supply are in
> political turmoil, and unable to bring to market the oil they are
> currently capable of producing. Think Nigeria, where security problems
> have shut down about 20 percent of the nation's 2.5 million barrels of
> capacity, and discouraged new investment, and Iraq, where political
> paralysis and terrorists have kept production at less than half of its
> potential. Other countries will not develop the reserves of oil known
> to lie under their territories.
>
> Russia has made it clear that foreigners who invest in its oil
> industry might be playing a game with Vladimir Putin known as heads I
> win, tails you lose. Find nothing and you lose your money; find
> substantial reserves and the state squeezes you until your
> shareholders' pips squeak. Only companies at least 51 percent owned by
> Russians--read FOPs, Friends of Putin--are allowed to look for oil in
> the new, difficult areas in which it is to be found. Little surprise
> that Russian oil output dropped in the first quarter of this year.
>
> Mexico's President Felipe Calderon wants to revive Petroleos de Mexico
> (Pemex), the world's third-largest oil producer, by contracting with
> foreign companies to introduce modern methods of extracting more from
> existing fields and finding new ones. But legislation is stalled by
> left-wingers who have seized and are sleeping at podiums in both house
> of congress.
>
> Saudi Arabia's royal family has announced that it will not expand
> capacity. Abdullah Jum'ah, CEO of the kingdom's oil company, says that
> high prices don't mean the world needs more oil because such market
> signals are "imperfect," and Ali Naimi, the kingdom's energy minister,
> has announced that there are no plans to embark on a new round of
> expansion. The oil is there, but with current production yielding
> about $120 per barrel, there is no incentive to find more, especially
> since new production might drive down prices as demand for oil from
> the slowing American economy drops.
>
> Venezuela's oil industry can only be described as a mess. President
> Hugo Chávez's cronies are inadequate substitutes for the technicians
> they have replaced, so production is falling, while foreign investors
> are reluctant to trust hundreds of millions in exploration dollars to
> a regime that treats contracts as the first step in a negotiation.
>
> Here in America, Congress alternates between calls for "energy
> independence" and refusals to allow drilling in what it considers
> environmentally sensitive areas in Alaska and offshore California and
> Florida. There's more, but you get the idea. There is a lot of oil out
> there to be found and produced, not even including the vast reserves
> in Canada's tar sands. We might have reached the age of peak panic
> about oil supplies, but not of peak oil.
>
> One thing we think we know about the oil business is correct. High oil
> prices and the greenhouse gasses produced by using oil have important
> geopolitical consequences. These $100+ prices have led to a massive
> flow of wealth, and hence power, from consuming to producing
> countries. If oil were still priced at $20 or even $40 per barrel
> Russia would not have the wherewithal to revert to its bullying
> foreign policy, and America's banks would not be going hats-in-hand to
> Arab capitals in search of new capital. If gasoline prices had not
> closed in on $4 per gallon in the United States, thousands of SUVs and
> small trucks would not be sitting, unsold and unloved, on dealers'
> lots. If oil had not pierced the $100 per barrel level, and was not
> seen as a pollutant, the current enthusiasm for super-expensive
> nuclear power would not have reached a fever pitch.

Everything else I can agree with, but nuclear power? They are not in the
same category; they're not on the same playing field even. Implying that
oil has any influence on the acceptance of nuclear power is unfounded.
Nuclear power is a Good Thing, by the way.


> And if oil did not
> produce so-called greenhouse gasses when propelling cars and heating
> homes, there would be no massive subsidies for ethanol production,
> acreage would not be diverted from growing food to growing fuel, and
> the current run-up in food prices would be less steep, and food riots
> would not be breaking out around the world.
>
> So oil indeed matters. But not in the ways we most often think.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim Kreitz
> 2004 ZRX1200R
> 2003 ZX7R
> DoD #2184
> http :// www .timkreitz,com

Re: Peak Oil


"Patok" <patok@pataklama,net > wrote

> Nuclear power is a Good Thing, by the way.
>
Power produced by nuclear fission is NOT a good thing.
It may, however, be the best alternative we can come up with.

Re: Peak Oil

In article <glLZj.1658$co7.948@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc,com >,
"Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:

> "Patok" <patok@pataklama,net > wrote
>
> > Nuclear power is a Good Thing, by the way.
> >
> Power produced by nuclear fission is NOT a good thing.
> It may, however, be the best alternative we can come up with.

It certainly is the safest, cleanest, and most environmentally
friendly way of producing electricity on a large scale.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III           612-720-2854            john@johnweeks,com
Newave Communications                         http :// www .johnweeks,com
======================================================================

Re: Peak Oil

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article <glLZj.1658$co7.948@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc,com >,
> "Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:
>
>> "Patok" <patok@pataklama,net > wrote
>>
>>> Nuclear power is a Good Thing, by the way.
>>>
>> Power produced by nuclear fission is NOT a good thing.
>> It may, however, be the best alternative we can come up with.
>
> It certainly is the safest, cleanest, and most environmentally
> friendly way of producing electricity on a large scale.

Exactly.

Re: Peak Oil

On Fri, 23 May 2008 23:15:01 -0500, John A. Weeks III wrote:

> In article <glLZj.1658$co7.948@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc,com >,
> "Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:
>
>> "Patok" <patok@pataklama,net > wrote
>>
>> > Nuclear power is a Good Thing, by the way.
>> >
>> Power produced by nuclear fission is NOT a good thing. It may,
>> however, be the best alternative we can come up with.
>
> It certainly is the safest, cleanest, and most environmentally friendly
> way of producing electricity on a large scale.

I think it is great. On the other hand, in the US anyway, our government
has been horribly irresponsible about handling the treatment and disposal
of nuclear waste. People in the US would have a much easier time buying
into nuclear power if we understood what was to be done with the waste.

--
Kenneth P. Turvey <kt-usenet@squeakydolphin,com >
http :// www .electricsenator,net

Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, and a dark side,
and it holds the universe together ...
-- Carl Zwanzig

Re: Peak Oil


"John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks,com > wrote

> It certainly is the safest, cleanest, and most environmentally
> friendly way of producing electricity on a large scale.
>

Sure it is.......if you completely ignore the complex and dangerous process
of creating the fuel and then disposing of it after it is "spent".

What you say is probably true.......after the plant is built, while the rods
are IN the reactor and before anything needs to be disposed of.

Another case of tunnel vision.

Re: Peak Oil

On May 24, 7:42 am, "Who Me?" <hitchhi...@dont.panic> wrote:
> "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks,com > wrote
>
> > It certainly is the safest, cleanest, and most environmentally
> > friendly way of producing electricity on a large scale.
>
> Sure it is.......if you completely ignore the complex and dangerous process
> of creating the fuel and then disposing of it after it is "spent".
>
> What you say is probably true.......after the plant is built, while the rods
> are IN the reactor and before anything needs to be disposed of.
>
> Another case of tunnel vision.

It's JUST an engineering problem that hasn't had REAL effort put into
it. You are acting like just another NIMBY or Sierra club...both do
more damage than good ime.
--
Keith S

Re: Peak Oil


"S'mee" <stevenkeith2@hotmail,com > wrote

>both do more damage than good ime.

Can't argue with that.

Just can't resist the temptation to occasionally give a "dope slap" to the
extremes on both sides.
Come to think of it, that applies to a LOT of political and social
disagreements these days.

Can't we all just get along...........and, yes, that means with EVERYBODY.

The worst sin is pride. The West and the US in particular seems to have an
abundance of self-importance at the moment.

Re: Peak Oil

In article
<7fb1ff3a-9bef-4dec-a5d5-9a46c42dd9bb@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >,
Tim Kreitz <timkreitz@yahoo,com > wrote:

> On May 21, 11:24 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@infernosoft,com >
> wrote:
> > Basically, they're fucked. They will eventually have to scrap their
> > fatmobiles.
>
> Some food for thought on the peak oil myth by Irwin Stelzer:

<snip>

All of what you mentioned is political. You have not addressed the
scientific facts about petroleum exploration and production.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http :// www .timberwoof,com /motorcycle/faq.shtml
Ten Steps to Fascism: http :// www .guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Re: Peak Oil


>> Some food for thought on the peak oil myth by Irwin Stelzer:
>
> <snip>
>
> All of what you mentioned is political. You have not addressed the
> scientific facts about petroleum exploration and production.

The hallucinated consequences of peak oil don't have much to do with
petroleum exploration or production.

Re: Peak Oil

In article <g12epn$f5p$2@ruby.cit.cornell.edu>,
Henry <9-11@insidejob.gov> wrote:

> "Robert Hirsch, author of Peaking of World Oil Production:
> Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management (a.k.a. the
> Hirsch Report), appeared on CNBC this morning. He said flat
> out that new technologies and new drilling won't solve the
> peak oil problem, and that we should expect $12-15/gallon
> gasoline followed by rationing."

How come the peak oil people act just like the tinfoil hat
people did 10 years ago? Are they just as crazy? Or just
as stupid?

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III           612-720-2854            john@johnweeks,com
Newave Communications                         http :// www .johnweeks,com
======================================================================