are you really safer now

are you safer now that you are paying more for what is termed security...

I don't think so...

more expensive equipment, but having unskilled and untrained people
operate them

more searches

more restrictions etc...

I don't think so...
get rid of TSA lets go back to how things were 10 or 15 years ago...

People who cause problems, we have enough laws to deal with

don't treat the rest of us who just want to get to our next appointment,
get home, go on vacation or visit family like we are troublemakers or
that other "T" word a certain well known US person uses.. we are NOT...

if you feel something is not right, speak up, write your congressman...
don't accept everything politicians and bureaucrats say as gospel don't
think they know how to protect you and make you safe, they do not

WRITE AND COMPLAIN... I do, if enough people tell Washington what they
want, they might listen... of course you can also offer to send your
congressman on a vacation or "free" trip... we have the best government
money can buy.... sad but true...

IF enough of you and I speak out it, we hope will make a difference

JOHN

On Mar 14, 9:28 am, JA_MORAN <jamo...@analon.com> wrote:
> are you safer now that you are paying more for what is termed security...
>
> I don't think so...
>
> more expensive equipment, but having unskilled and untrained people
> operate them
>
> more searches
>
> more restrictions etc...
>
> I don't think so...
> get rid of TSA lets go back to how things were 10 or 15 years ago...
>
> People who cause problems, we have enough laws to deal with
>
> don't treat the rest of us who just want to get to our next appointment,
> get home, go on vacation or visit family like we are troublemakers or
> that other "T" word a certain well known US person uses.. we are NOT...
>
> if you feel something is not right, speak up, write your congressman...
> don't accept everything politicians and bureaucrats say as gospel don't
> think they know how to protect you and make you safe, they do not
>
> WRITE AND COMPLAIN... I do, if enough people tell Washington what they
> want, they might listen... of course you can also offer to send your
> congressman on a vacation or "free" trip... we have the best government
> money can buy.... sad but true...
>
> IF enough of you and I speak out it, we hope will make a difference
>
> JOHN

Board an plane like we do a bus? Board a plane with a ticket you
bought with someone else' name on it, one you bought from newspaper
classified? Those days are gone. They are not coming back. I for
one will nor go back.

yaofeng wrote:

> Board an plane like we do a bus? Board a plane with a ticket you
> bought with someone else' name on it, one you bought from newspaper
> classified? Those days are gone. They are not coming back. I for
> one will nor go back.
>

What additional security is gained from US domestic flights by checking
ID before entering the TSA checkpoint? NONE... There is a check of the
name on the ID against the name on a boarding pass. There is no check to
determine whether the boarding pass (or the ID) is actually valid.

On Mar 14, 12:45 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> yaofeng wrote:
> > Board an plane like we do a bus? Board a plane with a ticket you
> > bought with someone else' name on it, one you bought from newspaper
> > classified? Those days are gone. They are not coming back. I for
> > one will nor go back.
>
> What additional security is gained from US domestic flights by checking
> ID before entering the TSA checkpoint? NONE... There is a check of the
> name on the ID against the name on a boarding pass. There is no check to
> determine whether the boarding pass (or the ID) is actually valid.

Redundancy. I'd rather have it double checked or triple checked. I
don't mind. But if you like to board a plane like you do a bus, fly
domestic in Brazil. Is it any less safe? No it isn't. The premises
of less scrutiny is based on everyone values his own life. When 9/11
happened and this premise is no longer valid, it leads to what we have
today.

yaofeng wrote:

> On Mar 14, 12:45 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
>
>>yaofeng wrote:
>>
>>>Board an plane like we do a bus? Board a plane with a ticket you
>>>bought with someone else' name on it, one you bought from newspaper
>>>classified? Those days are gone. They are not coming back. I for
>>>one will nor go back.
>>
>>What additional security is gained from US domestic flights by checking
>>ID before entering the TSA checkpoint? NONE... There is a check of the
>>name on the ID against the name on a boarding pass. There is no check to
>>determine whether the boarding pass (or the ID) is actually valid.
>
>
> Redundancy. I'd rather have it double checked or triple checked. I
> don't mind.

Why don't you mind? If it doesn't make you safer, what's the point?

On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> yaofeng wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 12:45 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
>
> >>yaofeng wrote:
>
> >>>Board an plane like we do a bus? Board a plane with a ticket you
> >>>bought with someone else' name on it, one you bought from newspaper
> >>>classified? Those days are gone. They are not coming back. I for
> >>>one will nor go back.
>
> >>What additional security is gained from US domestic flights by checking
> >>ID before entering the TSA checkpoint? NONE... There is a check of the
> >>name on the ID against the name on a boarding pass. There is no check to
> >>determine whether the boarding pass (or the ID) is actually valid.
>
> > Redundancy. I'd rather have it double checked or triple checked. I
> > don't mind.
>
> Why don't you mind? If it doesn't make you safer, what's the point?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You miss my point. I think it does make me safer flying in and out or
within the US. It may not make a difference if I travel somewhere
else. 9/11 makes it bad. The current war makes it worse.

yaofeng wrote:

>
> You miss my point. I think it does make me safer flying in and out or
> within the US. It may not make a difference if I travel somewhere
> else. 9/11 makes it bad. The current war makes it worse.
>

When flying to/from the US it is a bit difficult to get by with false
documenation. However, inside the US, it is quite easy for a known
terrorist to board a plane, if they were so inclined. The current ID
check process doesn't stop this from happening, so how does it make you
safer?

On Mar 14, 2:43 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> yaofeng wrote:
>
> > You miss my point. I think it does make me safer flying in and out or
> > within the US. It may not make a difference if I travel somewhere
> > else. 9/11 makes it bad. The current war makes it worse.
>
> When flying to/from the US it is a bit difficult to get by with false
> documenation. However, inside the US, it is quite easy for a known
> terrorist to board a plane, if they were so inclined. The current ID
> check process doesn't stop this from happening, so how does it make you
> safer?

I don't get it. Although most of my travel is out of the country, I
did go to Indianapolis last week. Continental demanded to see my
photo ID (my driver license) when I checked in. TSA also verified my
boaring pass matches with my photo ID going through the security check
point. Granted the CO ground crew did not check my boarding pass
against my photo ID again at the gate. But they can if they want to
and I am ready to show to them. Occasionally they also want you to
check in again at the gate, after having gone throught the TSA
security check point. How can a terrorist get by it, and with what
kind of weapon?

I feel very safe.

On 14 Mar 2007 12:08:50 -0700, "yaofeng" <yaofengchen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mar 14, 2:43 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
>> yaofeng wrote:
>>
>> > You miss my point. I think it does make me safer flying in and out or
>> > within the US. It may not make a difference if I travel somewhere
>> > else. 9/11 makes it bad. The current war makes it worse.
>>
>> When flying to/from the US it is a bit difficult to get by with false
>> documenation. However, inside the US, it is quite easy for a known
>> terrorist to board a plane, if they were so inclined. The current ID
>> check process doesn't stop this from happening, so how does it make you
>> safer?
>
>I don't get it. Although most of my travel is out of the country, I
>did go to Indianapolis last week. Continental demanded to see my
>photo ID (my driver license) when I checked in. TSA also verified my
>boaring pass matches with my photo ID going through the security check
>point. Granted the CO ground crew did not check my boarding pass
>against my photo ID again at the gate. But they can if they want to
>and I am ready to show to them. Occasionally they also want you to
>check in again at the gate, after having gone throught the TSA
>security check point. How can a terrorist get by it, and with what
>kind of weapon?
>
>I feel very safe.



You are truly a fearful individual who probably hides in a closet when
you are not traveling.

I guess you will give up ANY rights you have in this country as long
as you feel safe.

On Mar 14, 4:25 pm, John <z23456789987654...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 14 Mar 2007 12:08:50 -0700, "yaofeng" <yaofengc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 14, 2:43 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> >> yaofeng wrote:
>
> >> > You miss my point. I think it does make me safer flying in and out or
> >> > within the US. It may not make a difference if I travel somewhere
> >> > else. 9/11 makes it bad. The current war makes it worse.
>
> >> When flying to/from the US it is a bit difficult to get by with false
> >> documenation. However, inside the US, it is quite easy for a known
> >> terrorist to board a plane, if they were so inclined. The current ID
> >> check process doesn't stop this from happening, so how does it make you
> >> safer?
>
> >I don't get it. Although most of my travel is out of the country, I
> >did go to Indianapolis last week. Continental demanded to see my
> >photo ID (my driver license) when I checked in. TSA also verified my
> >boaring pass matches with my photo ID going through the security check
> >point. Granted the CO ground crew did not check my boarding pass
> >against my photo ID again at the gate. But they can if they want to
> >and I am ready to show to them. Occasionally they also want you to
> >check in again at the gate, after having gone throught the TSA
> >security check point. How can a terrorist get by it, and with what
> >kind of weapon?
>
> >I feel very safe.
>
> You are truly a fearful individual who probably hides in a closet when
> you are not traveling.
>
> I guess you will give up ANY rights you have in this country as long
> as you feel safe.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Please do not confuse my rights as a citizen with those when I place
my life in the hands of those who provide the services of taking me
from point A to point B via air. I'd like to see how macho you are
and how far you get. Rather, I'd like to see how short a life you
lead demanding your rights at this day and age.

yaofeng wrote:

> I don't get it. Although most of my travel is out of the country, I
> did go to Indianapolis last week. Continental demanded to see my
> photo ID (my driver license) when I checked in.

You can check in online or at a kiosk without showing ID.

TSA also verified my
> boaring pass matches with my photo ID going through the security check
> point.

That's interesting. Usually it is NOT a TSA employee that checks your ID
before getting screened by TSA. In any case, how did they confirm the BP
was actually valid for the name on it? Did they check it in the
reservation system??? NO..

Granted the CO ground crew did not check my boarding pass
> against my photo ID again at the gate. But they can if they want to
> and I am ready to show to them.

I haven't had this done in years

Occasionally they also want you to
> check in again at the gate, after having gone throught the TSA
> security check point. How can a terrorist get by it, and with what
> kind of weapon?
>
> I feel very safe.
>

What does the ID check have to do with weapons?

Forget the weapons part of this, as that has nothing to do with the ID
check.

Let's say you are on the terrorist list.
This may prevent you from getting a boarding pass in your own name.

1. Get BP in fake name
2. Do online check in and edit the boarding pass to the name that
matches your ID
3. Show the editted BP and your ID to the guy that is at the TSA
checkpoint. They will NOT verify your BP or ID to see if actually
matches info in the reservations or ID database.
4. At boarding, present the valid boarding pass, as an ID is not
normally done at boarding for domestic flights. If by some chance an ID
check is being done at boarding, then the known terrorist would simply
not board.

Now, can please explain how the ID check before TSA screening makes us
safer?

On Mar 14, 4:55 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> yaofeng wrote:
> > I don't get it. Although most of my travel is out of the country, I
> > did go to Indianapolis last week. Continental demanded to see my
> > photo ID (my driver license) when I checked in.
>
> You can check in online or at a kiosk without showing ID.
>
> TSA also verified my
>
> > boaring pass matches with my photo ID going through the security check
> > point.
>
> That's interesting. Usually it is NOT a TSA employee that checks your ID
> before getting screened by TSA. In any case, how did they confirm the BP
> was actually valid for the name on it? Did they check it in the
> reservation system??? NO..
>
> Granted the CO ground crew did not check my boarding pass
>
> > against my photo ID again at the gate. But they can if they want to
> > and I am ready to show to them.
>
> I haven't had this done in years
>
> Occasionally they also want you to
>
> > check in again at the gate, after having gone throught the TSA
> > security check point. How can a terrorist get by it, and with what
> > kind of weapon?
>
> > I feel very safe.
>
> What does the ID check have to do with weapons?
>
> Forget the weapons part of this, as that has nothing to do with the ID
> check.
>
> Let's say you are on the terrorist list.
> This may prevent you from getting a boarding pass in your own name.
>
> 1. Get BP in fake name
> 2. Do online check in and edit the boarding pass to the name that
> matches your ID
> 3. Show the editted BP and your ID to the guy that is at the TSA
> checkpoint. They will NOT verify your BP or ID to see if actually
> matches info in the reservations or ID database.
> 4. At boarding, present the valid boarding pass, as an ID is not
> normally done at boarding for domestic flights. If by some chance an ID
> check is being done at boarding, then the known terrorist would simply
> not board.
>
> Now, can please explain how the ID check before TSA screening makes us
> safer?

Your argument is so far fetch it is not even funny. Are you saying
you can board a plane without a valid ID nowadays? I never check in
online. But if I did, I would have already established my credential
with the carrier and they would have been verified.

With regard to checking in after getting the BP and having gone
through the TSA check point. The carrier does that all the time.

I think you watched too many suspense movies. If you are so sure why
don't you try it out using a set of fake credentials one day and see
how far you get.

yaofeng wrote:
>
> Your argument is so far fetch it is not even funny. Are you saying
> you can board a plane without a valid ID nowadays? I never check in
> online. But if I did, I would have already established my credential
> with the carrier and they would have been verified.

NO, you wouldn't need to establish ID before checking in online. In
fact, you can even check in at a kiosk without an ID
>
> With regard to checking in after getting the BP and having gone
> through the TSA check point. The carrier does that all the time.

The carrier I fly most often doesn't do this.

>
> I think you watched too many suspense movies. If you are so sure why
> don't you try it out using a set of fake credentials one day and see
> how far you get.
>

I didn't say your ID had to be fake. I am referring to the boarding
pass. If the boarding pass you carry matches your ID, then you can get
past the ID checker.
Do you think the guy checking IDs before you are screened by TSA can
tell if a boarding pass printed from your home PC is valid or not?
How? He doesn't have a computer with him to verify whether it matches
the reservation.

In article <1173915532.570112.255880@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
yaofeng <yaofengchen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Your argument is so far fetch it is not even funny. Are you saying
> you can board a plane without a valid ID nowadays?

Yes. On different occasions, my daughter, my GF, and I have each done that,
all in domestic US travel. When the airline/TSA knows that the passenger is
flying without acceptable ID, the passenger is supposed to go through the
more-thorough security screening.

> With regard to checking in after getting the BP and having gone
> through the TSA check point. The carrier does that all the time.

Originally, the BP check at the security checkpoint was to keep those not
flying today from burdening the screening process. For that purpose, a
tight screening wasn't really necessary. As it became clear that the
"no-fly list" and much of the related admin junk was theater masquerading as
security, the gate ID check was dropped.

--
Randy Hudson

Randy Hudson wrote:

> In article <1173915532.570112.255880@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> yaofeng <yaofengchen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Your argument is so far fetch it is not even funny. Are you saying
>>you can board a plane without a valid ID nowadays?
>
>
> Yes. On different occasions, my daughter, my GF, and I have each done that,
> all in domestic US travel.

Yes, but my point was that even with the ID checkpoint before TSA
screening, you can present an ID that matches a boarding pass and it is
possible that either the ID or BP is fake since they are not validated
at that point. You could then board the plane using a real BP as you do
not need to present ID to get a real BP.