Airline passengers' hassles mount

Talk about a *non* breaking story. Atlantic Southeast has the honor
of having the highest % of misplaced/lost bags(17.41), lowest on-time
arrivals (66%) and highest number of bumps(according to one site).

Full article:
http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/NEWS07/704020351

Snip:
Washington - More airline passengers bumped, more bags lost and fewer
on-time flights.

For the third year in a row, those problems grew worse for the
industry, according to annual study that rates airline quality.

"They just don't get it yet," said Dean Headley, an associate
professor at Wichita State University and co-author of the study being
released today.

One upside, researchers said, was that the number of complaints about
airlines has stabilized since hitting a five-year low in 2005.

The study does not include information from recent weather-related
flight delays such as the ones that left JetBlue and United Airlines
planes idling for hours on taxiways.

An industry spokesman does not expect travel woes to improve anytime
soon.

"We're going to see more delays and those delays translate to
cancellations,

"Duh_OZ" <ozzy.kopec@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175517169.823908.272600@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

> Snip:
> Washington - More airline passengers bumped, more bags lost and fewer
> on-time flights.
>
> For the third year in a row, those problems grew worse for the
> industry, according to annual study that rates airline quality.

Except it's only the US airline industry.

I find it hard to believe that anyone lost more bags than BA...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Duh_OZ" <ozzy.kopec@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175517169.823908.272600@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

(Snippagio in parte)

> Full article:
> http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/NEWS07/704020351
>
> Snip:

>
> One upside, researchers said, was that the number of complaints about
> airlines has stabilized since hitting a five-year low in 2005.
>
> The study does not include information from recent weather-related
> flight delays such as the ones that left JetBlue and United Airlines
> planes idling for hours on taxiways.
>
> An industry spokesman does not expect travel woes to improve anytime
> soon.
>
> "We're going to see more delays and those delays translate to
> cancellations,
>

....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the airline's
detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the industry
"leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.

TMO

On Apr 2, 9:29 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
> "Duh_OZ" <ozzy.ko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175517169.823908.272600@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> (Snippagio in parte)
[snip]
> > The study does not include information from recent weather-related
> > flight delays such as the ones that left JetBlue and United Airlines
> > planes idling for hours on taxiways.
>
> > An industry spokesman does not expect travel woes to improve anytime
> > soon.
>
> > "We're going to see more delays and those delays translate to
> > cancellations,
>
> ....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the airline's
> detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
> etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
> almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the industry
> "leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.


Effect of setting expectations extremely low. It's easy to meet
them.

"me" <oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote ...
> On Apr 2, 9:29 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:

>>
>> ....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the
>> airline's
>> detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
>> etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
>> almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the
>> industry
>> "leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.
>
>
> Effect of setting expectations extremely low. It's easy to meet
> them.
>

Eight times lower? You are stuffed as full of shit as your bigger'n average
Christmas Turkey, aren't you?

I set my expectations high when I fly to Europe in the front cabin on FF
tickets. Unfortunately, for every one of those flights, I need to go to MCI
or BWI or BUR several times (along with such glamour spots as ATL and ELP).
In doing so I travel on several airlines, from none of which do I expect
much. On those few occasions when I fly WN, whatever modest expectations I
have are generally met and occasionally exceeded, and I don't fly WN
(because of physical inconvenience) often, mostly when the fare is cheap and
the schedule worth driving 90 miles. I don't expect any more from UNtied or
USeless, but what I receive consistently falls short of even the modestly
expectable. I can't imagine anybody who expects much from any domestic
service these days (aside from the occasional transcon FC which in my last
example was laughable since it was an accident/mistake by UN and much
undeserved, and turned out to be the flight from Hell, mismanaged from
boarding to reclaiming luggage with few bright spots between).

As loyal as I am to AA, I sure don't have high expectations in the back of
the bus in most of the hops I fly. At least with WN, neither the FAs or the
GAs seem to be grads of the Prunella McWaspish School where minimal service
is matched with minimal courtesy and the obligatory absence of a smile on
all but random and accidental occasions.

TMO

On Apr 3, 10:51 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
> "me" <oconn...@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote ...
>
> > On Apr 2, 9:29 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
>
> >> ....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the
> >> airline's
> >> detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
> >> etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
> >> almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the
> >> industry
> >> "leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.
>
> > Effect of setting expectations extremely low. It's easy to meet
> > them.
>
> Eight times lower?

Hey, all processes are not linear.

[snip]
> I set my expectations high when I fly to Europe in the front cabin on FF
> tickets. Unfortunately, for every one of those flights, I need to go to MCI
> or BWI or BUR several times (along with such glamour spots as ATL and ELP).
> In doing so I travel on several airlines, from none of which do I expect
> much.

And so you have confirmed the assertion.

> On those few occasions when I fly WN, whatever modest expectations I
> have are generally met and occasionally exceeded, and I don't fly WN
> (because of physical inconvenience) often, mostly when the fare is cheap and
> the schedule worth driving 90 miles. I don't expect any more from UNtied or
> USeless, but what I receive consistently falls short of even the modestly
> expectable. I can't imagine anybody who expects much from any domestic
> service these days

Southwest effect.

[snip]
> As loyal as I am to AA, I sure don't have high expectations in the back of
> the bus in most of the hops I fly. At least with WN, neither the FAs or the
> GAs seem to be grads of the Prunella McWaspish School where minimal service
> is matched with minimal courtesy and the obligatory absence of a smile on
> all but random and accidental occasions.

The question of course is since these are qualitative observations,
to
what degree has your judgement been influenceed by your expectations
of
what you will receive. You seem to expect poor service from certain
providers, and nominal service from others. The question is whether
you have been precondition to perceive the results from one
differently
from another. Since a particular provider has spent the better part
of
a couple of decades subtley establishing low expectations, and
others falsely establishing high ones, does this influence qualitative
assessments? How would one know?

me wrote:

> On Apr 3, 10:51 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
>
>>"me" <oconn...@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote ...
>>
>>
>>>On Apr 2, 9:29 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
>>
>>>>....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the
>>>>airline's
>>>>detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
>>>>etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
>>>>almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the
>>>>industry
>>>>"leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.
>>
>>> Effect of setting expectations extremely low. It's easy to meet
>>>them.
>>
>>Eight times lower?
>
>
> Hey, all processes are not linear.
>

I think it is a language issue. He is not aware that some people say
"eight times lower" instead of "1/8 as high" or "1/8 as much".

>

"Mike Hunt" <postmaster@localhost> wrote in message
news:IZWdnYNxVuI-6o_bnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com...
> me wrote:
>
>> On Apr 3, 10:51 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
>>
>>>"me" <oconn...@slr.orl.lmco.com> wrote ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Apr 2, 9:29 am, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>....As an interesting sidelight, especially notable because of the
>>>>>airline's
>>>>>detractors here (Pax with baggage in black plastic bags, "bus company,
>>>>>etc.), WN's rate of complaints was the lowest in the domestic industry,
>>>>>almost EIGHT TIMES lower (0.18 vs. a tie at 1.36 per 100K) than the
>>>>>industry
>>>>>"leaders", UNtied and USeless Air.
>>>
>>>> Effect of setting expectations extremely low. It's easy to meet
>>>>them.
>>>
>>>Eight times lower?
>>
>>
>> Hey, all processes are not linear.
>>
>
> I think it is a language issue. He is not aware that some people say
> "eight times lower" instead of "1/8 as high" or "1/8 as much".
>
Or that better expressed, for every 100 complaints about UA or US service,
WN receives 12 (adjusted for total passengers carried). Any one who
believes that a complaint rate that much lower reflects nothing but low
expectations knows little about marketing or business. From the market
research I've seen, the complaint rates of several European "Budget"
carriers are actually much higher than their bigger counterparts, and it's
cheap fares which keep them afloat. WN's fares are only occasionally
cheaper (but the occasions are expectable and exploitable.

Lest we be too concerned about US legacy airlines, I will note that the last
European domestic flight I experienced, aboard Alitalia, was pretty grim.

TMO

On Apr 3, 1:18 pm, "TMOliver" <tmoliverjr...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:
[snip]

> Any one who
> believes that a complaint rate that much lower reflects nothing but low
> expectations knows little about marketing or business.

It's all about the marketing. It's why they still don't have
assigned
seats. It's not a cost thing, it is designed to make folks "believe"
they are getting a good deal even if they aren't. It's why Herb
would make a photo op out of going out to help "load luggage".
It's why they down market their FA's. They not only don't want
you to expect much, they want you to expect less.

> From the market
> research I've seen, the complaint rates of several European "Budget"
> carriers are actually much higher than their bigger counterparts, and it's
> cheap fares which keep them afloat. WN's fares are only occasionally
> cheaper (but the occasions are expectable and exploitable.

Which I've talked about before. If you look at what WN has
done,
it has been to present themselves as a low cost competitor, even
though predominately they aren't. They are an "alternately priced"
competitor, but they actually don't try to compete at all. Herb used
to claim his main competition was the car.

United and Continental both tried a variation of this approach.
Ted and Peanut? or whatever it was called was an attempt to create
this same kind of marketing approach. The problem was that they
didn't actually create the alternate airline, they merely created the
name. They just ended up competing with themselves. Herb flew
to different cities, priced his product differently, had his staff
behave
differently, had the passengers behave differently, and he himself
did too. All of this created lowered expectations and an feeling that
one was getting a good deal because they were standing in
line so much and the FA's behaved like a bunch of rank amateurs.
Must be savin' a bundle.

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:49:54 -0700, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost>
wrote:


>I think it is a language issue. He is not aware that some people say
>"eight times lower" instead of "1/8 as high" or "1/8 as much".

Because some people say it, does not make it correct.
It can't be 8 times as much and be lower without being a corruption of
the language.

Brian wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:49:54 -0700, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I think it is a language issue. He is not aware that some people say
>>"eight times lower" instead of "1/8 as high" or "1/8 as much".
>
>
> Because some people say it, does not make it correct.
> It can't be 8 times as much and be lower without being a corruption of
> the language.
>

Who said anything about "8 times as much" meaning lower?

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:11:12 -0700, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost>
wrote:


>Who said anything about "8 times as much" meaning lower?


That was a mistake.
It should have been, "It can't be 8 times lower without being a
corruption of the language."

X-No-Archive: Yes

On Apr 4, 7:24 pm, Brian <drmorrisnos...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:11:12 -0700, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost>
> wrote:
>
> >Who said anything about "8 times as much" meaning lower?
>
> That was a mistake.
> It should have been, "It can't be 8 times lower without being a
> corruption of the language."

Actually, regardless of the numbers, 2007 seems to have an all time
low in Customer Service in general.

I've been seeing crappy service in every aspect of travel. Airlines,
Hotels, Car Rentals, and many restaurants. Seems to be becoming the
American way of life.