Continental First(?) Class Redux

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

"Tchiowa" <tchiowa2@hotmail . com > wrote:

> But I still feel that Continental is worse than the others. I flew one
> leg on United (SLC/SFO) and even though it was a smaller plane it was
> more comfortable than Continental.

You are about the only one who feels that way. Continental has again won
the award for the best domestic carrier.

* tinyurl . com /26hs9m

The JD Power award is based on extensive, independent polling of frequent
fliers, and is not something that the airline can buy. United is close to
the bottom of the list. The results of the survey pretty well match my
own experiences with the various airlines.

Here is a list of other recent awards:

- Most Admired Global Airline; FORTUNE magazine (2004, 2005, and 2006)
- Most Admired U.S. Airline; FORTUNE magazine (2006)
- Best Executive/Business Class; OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2003,
2004, 2005, and 2006)
- Best Airline Based in North America; OAG Airline of the Year Awards
(2004, 2005, and 2006)
- Best Trans-Atlantic and Trans-Pacific Business Class among U.S.
airlines; Conde Nast Traveler (1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,
and 2006)
- Best Airline for Travel in North America, Best Flight Attendants in the
US, and Best Inflight Service in the US by reader survey in the UK's
Business Traveller magazine (December 2006)

Obviously, you are mistaken about Continental.

JF Diddling Himself AGAIN...

You are always spouting off like some "expert", yet you live in your mommy's
basement, you are chronically unemployed, and you haven't set foot on a
plane in many years...

Just so people know :-)

--
Best
Greg

"Nobody" <nobody@nobody.org> wrote in message
news:64ed5$46120b58$cef8887a$22123@TEKSAVVY . com ...
> Tchiowa wrote:
> > But when First Class
> > domestic service and accomodations are worse than International
> > *COACH* then I think the public is being ripped off.
>
> There are realities in the domestic markets of many countries which have
forced
> airlines to scale down their premium class service.
>
> Remember that a large proportion of people using the premium cabin
domestically
> don't actually pay for those seats but use FF upgrades or complimentary
upgrades
> from Y class coach tickets. By configuring the premium cabin as a
glorified
> permium coach, it allows the airline to accomodate more "freebie"
upgrades, as
> well as reducing the cost to it for those upgrades.
>
> Also, if airlines were to provide true first class service, the cost would
be
> high enough that those employers who now agree to pay for premium class
cabin
> would refuse the price of a full fledged premium class.
>
> Also, since most domestic services are operated on narrowbody aircraft, it
makes
> it more difficult to justify allocating so much space for a true premium
cabin.
> And since the flights are generally shorter, the need for real first class
seats
> is less.
>
> Note that it wasn't that many years ago that UA was still advertising on
TV its
> JFK-LAX first class service on a 747 with full meal and comfy seats.
Things have
> changed a lot since then.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

>What Continental passes off as First Class is simply not. Domestic,
>International, Interplanetary, Intergalactic. Doesn't matter. First
>Class means something.

Hey, could you do us a favor and connect on a different airline the
next time you come to the US? All domestic FC is about equally lousy,
with Continental's being if anything a tad better than most.

Since most US domestic flights are so short, US first class exists
primarily as a perk for elite status flyers. (The only long domestic
routes are to Hawaii, but that's all price sensitive vacation
traffic.) Nobody pays for domestic FC, since we know how little it's
worth.

>A specific example: Even if you are on a paid First Class (not a
>courtesy upgrade but a *paid* First Class ticket) Continental won't
>let you use the lounge. That's for Elite Level FF only.

Actually, that's not true. In the US, to get into the lounge you
either need a paid membership, an international BC or FC ticket, or
elite status in a non-US partner program. Elite status on US airlines
doesn't get you in. Every airline has the same rules. Check their
web sites if you don't believe me. The reasons for this date back to
the era of regulated fares and the CAB.

>On Singapore I can use the lounge any time I want because of my FF
>status.

Next time connect on a Star Alliance carrier, US or UA or AC, and your
SQ status makes you welcome in their lounge. And then you'll have a
different airline's first class to complain about. I recommend US's FC
for the best complaint material.

> But *anyone* flying First Class (or Business) can also use the
> lounge regardless of their status.

So the rule is the same as here, international FC and BC gets you
into the lounge.

R's,
John

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 3, 8:18 pm, j...@iecc . com (John L) wrote:
> >What Continental passes off as First Class is simply not. Domestic,
> >International, Interplanetary, Intergalactic. Doesn't matter. First
> >Class means something.
>
> Hey, could you do us a favor and connect on a different airline the
> next time you come to the US?

I wish I could when going to Houston. When not headed for Houston I
avoid them.

> All domestic FC is about equally lousy,
> with Continental's being if anything a tad better than most.

Sorry, but that's not my experience. Sitting in "First Class" with a
seat that only the top half of the back reclines (so that when you
recline there is a lump in the seat and your back bends), no
entertainment (not even music), a wall just a few inches in front of
your face, no place to stretch out your feet, no access to lounges,
that is *NOT* "better than most" of the domestic airlines I've used.

> >A specific example: Even if you are on a paid First Class (not a
> >courtesy upgrade but a *paid* First Class ticket) Continental won't
> >let you use the lounge. That's for Elite Level FF only.
>
> Actually, that's not true. In the US, to get into the lounge you
> either need a paid membership, an international BC or FC ticket, or
> elite status in a non-US partner program. Elite status on US airlines
> doesn't get you in. Every airline has the same rules. Check their
> web sites if you don't believe me. The reasons for this date back to
> the era of regulated fares and the CAB.

I walked into the Continental Lounge in Houston with a First Class
boarding pass and was told that only Elite Status members were allowed
to use the lounge unless (as you point out) they are on an
International Flight. I have flown JFK to Dallas, for example, First
Class on Delta and was shown to the lounge that is rather clearly
marked "First Class Passengers".

So unless the sign in JFK was lying and the people in the lounge in
Houston were lying then I think you are mistaken.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

>I walked into the Continental Lounge in Houston with a First Class
>boarding pass and was told that only Elite Status members were
>allowed to use the lounge unless (as you point out) they are on an
>International Flight.

That's very peculiar. I was OnePass gold elite some years ago, and I
still had to pay for my President's Club membership. The current info
on CO's web site says the rules haven't changed and has the price list
for lounge membership, with modest discounts for elite members. Elite
members of Skyteam international partners probably get access, perhaps
that's what they were referring to. (I am gold elite on AC which gets
me into US and UA lounges, even though UA's and US's own elites don't.
Go figure.)

> I have flown JFK to Dallas, for example, First Class on Delta and
>was shown to the lounge that is rather clearly marked "First Class
>Passengers".

CO used to have a separate lounge at IAH for domestic first class
passengers, but I haven't been to IAH in quite a while and it may be
gone.

R's,
John

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 4, 10:42 am, j...@iecc . com (John L) wrote:
> >I walked into the Continental Lounge in Houston with a First Class
> >boarding pass and was told that only Elite Status members were
> >allowed to use the lounge unless (as you point out) they are on an
> >International Flight.
>
> That's very peculiar. I was OnePass gold elite some years ago, and I
> still had to pay for my President's Club membership. The current info
> on CO's web site says the rules haven't changed and has the price list
> for lounge membership, with modest discounts for elite members. Elite
> members of Skyteam international partners probably get access, perhaps
> that's what they were referring to. (I am gold elite on AC which gets
> me into US and UA lounges, even though UA's and US's own elites don't.
> Go figure.)
>
> > I have flown JFK to Dallas, for example, First Class on Delta and
> >was shown to the lounge that is rather clearly marked "First Class
> >Passengers".
>
> CO used to have a separate lounge at IAH for domestic first class
> passengers, but I haven't been to IAH in quite a while and it may be
> gone.
>
> R's,
> John

I only found one lounge so maybe it is. I avoid Continental when at
all possible so all I can do is tell you what the Continental staff
told me at the lounge. If they didn't understand their own company's
rules then I wouldn't find that surprising.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

Tchiowa wrote:

> Sorry, but that's not my experience. Sitting in "First Class" with a
> seat that only the top half of the back reclines (so that when you
> recline there is a lump in the seat and your back bends),

How do they make only the top half of the back of the seat recline??
And, your back bends backwards????????

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 4, 2:24 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
> Tchiowa wrote:
> > Sorry, but that's not my experience. Sitting in "First Class" with a
> > seat that only the top half of the back reclines (so that when you
> > recline there is a lump in the seat and your back bends),
>
> How do they make only the top half of the back of the seat recline??

The pivot for the seat recline is not at the bottom of the seat like
most seats. It is actually above the seat level. So the first couple
of inches of the back does not recline but the rest does.

> And, your back bends backwards????????

No. That's why it's uncomfortable.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

Tchiowa wrote:
> On Apr 4, 2:24 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
>
>>Tchiowa wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry, but that's not my experience. Sitting in "First Class" with a
>>>seat that only the top half of the back reclines (so that when you
>>>recline there is a lump in the seat and your back bends),
>>
>>How do they make only the top half of the back of the seat recline??
>
>
> The pivot for the seat recline is not at the bottom of the seat like
> most seats. It is actually above the seat level. So the first couple
> of inches of the back does not recline but the rest does.

I understand. So, the seatback is only 4 inches, since the bottom two
inches doesn't recline and only the top half reclines.

>
>
>>And, your back bends backwards????????
>
>
> No. That's why it's uncomfortable.

You said the seat reclines and "your back bends".

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 2, 11:10 pm, "Tchiowa" <tchio...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 3, 12:47 pm, Mike Hunt <postmaster@localhost> wrote:
>
> > Tchiowa wrote:
> > > Because the difference is so dramatic when flying internationally and
> > > having to complete the trip on a second rate airline like Continental.
>
> > Of course the difference is dramatic. You are comparing things are that
> > similar. Don't you understand? Your logic is flawed. Why don't you
> > compare INTERNATIONAL to INTERNATIONAL?
>
> I'm comparing First Class to Business. Yes, First Class International
> is always better than First Class Domestic. But when First Class
> domestic service and accomodations are worse than International
> *COACH* then I think the public is being ripped off.
>
> What Continental passes off as First Class is simply not. Domestic,
> International, Interplanetary, Intergalactic. Doesn't matter. First
> Class means something.
>
> When I pay for "First Class" I think I have a right to a certain level
> of service. And it simply isn't there in Continental.
>
> A specific example: Even if you are on a paid First Class (not a
> courtesy upgrade but a *paid* First Class ticket) Continental won't
> let you use the lounge. That's for Elite Level FF only.
>
> On Singapore I can use the lounge any time I want because of my FF
> status. But *anyone* flying First Class (or Business) can also use the
> lounge regardless of their status.

I get a little pissy when you spout off on a tirade based on
ignorance.

You didn't pay FC, you paid for business and got the connection based
on that.
The service you received and the seat you sat in is a standard US
first class configuration and product.
When you fly Business First internationally (Continental is a two
class airline, not three), you have free access to all lounges in the
Skyteam alliance.

When you fly on a solely domestic itinerary, lounge access is
restricted to MEMBERS and membership is PURCHASED, not earned.

How many domestic flights does SIA fly?

Now, as far as your comparison is concerned - try flying BA
"domestically" in FC. Yep, you got it - lousy service. Ever fly Air
France domestically? Yep, once again, crap. Even intra Europe,
service is not comparable to long-haul international - and intra
Europe IS international. So quite your incessant bitching and quit
flying to the US. We'd all appreciate it.

js

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 3, 10:06 pm, "js" <jonathansmit...@yahoo . com > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 11:10 pm, "Tchiowa" <tchio...@hotmail . com > wrote:

<snip>

> I get a little pissy when you spout off on a tirade based on
> ignorance.
>
> You didn't pay FC, you paid for business and got the connection based
> on that.

Wrong. I paid for First Class.

> The service you received and the seat you sat in is a standard US
> first class configuration and product.

Wrong again. It was worse than other domestic US configurations that I
have personally experienced.

> When you fly Business First internationally (Continental is a two
> class airline, not three), you have free access to all lounges in the
> Skyteam alliance.
>
> When you fly on a solely domestic itinerary, lounge access is
> restricted to MEMBERS and membership is PURCHASED, not earned.

So who do I believe? You or the staff at the Houston Lounge who very
specifically told me that the Lounge was available for Elite members?

> How many domestic flights does SIA fly?

They fly hundreds of regional Asia flights that are similar in length
and cost to US domestic flights.

> Now, as far as your comparison is concerned - try flying BA
> "domestically" in FC. Yep, you got it - lousy service. Ever fly Air
> France domestically?

Yes.

> Yep, once again, crap.

But nowhere near as bad as Continental.

> Even intra Europe,
> service is not comparable to long-haul international - and intra
> Europe IS international. So quite your incessant bitching and quit
> flying to the US. We'd all appreciate it.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

On Apr 3, 7:31 pm, "Tchiowa" <tchio...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 3, 10:06 pm, "js" <jonathansmit...@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 2, 11:10 pm, "Tchiowa" <tchio...@hotmail . com > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I get a little pissy when you spout off on a tirade based on
> > ignorance.
>
> > You didn't pay FC, you paid for business and got the connection based
> > on that.
>
> Wrong. I paid for First Class.

Then why did you write:

"I just had "another" similar experience. Flew Singapore Business
Class
from Bangkok to SFO then Continental First Class from SFO to Houston.

You paid for Business class.

>
> > The service you received and the seat you sat in is a standard US
> > first class configuration and product.
>
> Wrong again. It was worse than other domestic US configurations that I
> have personally experienced.

No, it is not. I fly FC US domestic almost weekly - much on
Continental but enough on other airlines to know.

> > When you fly Business First internationally (Continental is a two
> > class airline, not three), you have free access to all lounges in the
> > Skyteam alliance.
>
> > When you fly on a solely domestic itinerary, lounge access is
> > restricted to MEMBERS and membership is PURCHASED, not earned.
>
> So who do I believe? You or the staff at the Houston Lounge who very
> specifically told me that the Lounge was available for Elite members?

Me. You need to learn not to rely on your cognitive or listening
skills - what you THINK youHEARD is not the reality. What was said
certainly is. I know these folks and they know the rules. If you
are confused, here they are again.

IF YOU FLY FC on a solely domestic itinerary, irrespective of your
elite status you are NOT admitted to the lounge for free. If you fly
in any class of service INTERNATIONALLY and are a Skyteam ElitePlus
(Platinum on CO) you are admitted to the Presidents Club ON THE~DAY OF
TRAVEL of the International segment(s).
> > How many domestic flights does SIA fly?

> They fly hundreds of regional Asia flights that are similar in length
> and cost to US domestic flights.

How many are domestic?

>
> > Now, as far as your comparison is concerned - try flying BA
> > "domestically" in FC. Yep, you got it - lousy service. Ever fly Air
> > France domestically?
>
> Yes.

Good - so you know - what was the pitch in their "first class"?

> > Yep, once again, crap.
>
> But nowhere near as bad as Continental.

Sorry - but you are wrong.

> > Even intra Europe,
> > service is not comparable to long-haul international - and intra
> > Europe IS international. So quite your incessant bitching and quit
> > flying to the US. We'd all appreciate it.

We're done. All you want to do is complain - and do so based on your
twisted view of reality. Personally, I prefer you never fly CO again
- in that way, the likelihood of you in the seat next to me drops to
zero.

js

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

js wrote:


> Me. You need to learn not to rely on your cognitive or listening
> skills - what you THINK youHEARD is not the reality. What was said
> certainly is. I know these folks and they know the rules. If you
> are confused, here they are again.
>
> IF YOU FLY FC on a solely domestic itinerary, irrespective of your
> elite status you are NOT admitted to the lounge for free. If you fly
> in any class of service INTERNATIONALLY and are a Skyteam ElitePlus
> (Platinum on CO) you are admitted to the Presidents Club ON THE~DAY OF
> TRAVEL of the International segment(s).

Agree. For comparison, the same is true on AA, except if in FC on 3
class transcontinental flights, you get lounge access. Non-AA OneWorld
elites (any fare) get lounge access when traveling on domestic US
itineraries, while AA elites don't. For international itineraries where
the next segment is on a OW carrier, AA Platinum and Exec Platinum, get
lounge access, even on the domestic part of the trip.

>
>>>How many domestic flights does SIA fly?
>
>
>>They fly hundreds of regional Asia flights that are similar in length
>>and cost to US domestic flights.
>
>
> How many are domestic?

That is an important issue, because it isn't just about distance.
He should not expect better service from JFK-HNL as he would from
JFK-LHR, even though the JFK-HNL trip is over 1500 miles longer.

He might have flown a lot, but he is a bit clueless

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

Mike Hunt wrote:
> That is an important issue, because it isn't just about distance.
> He should not expect better service from JFK-HNL as he would from
> JFK-LHR, even though the JFK-HNL trip is over 1500 miles longer.

If you buy a first class ticket from London to Honolulu via JFK, and much more
than half the flight is operated on equipment where the "first class"
accomodations are not up to snuff, then you definitely have reason to complain.

Consider Qantas restarting its flights to New York. One of the reasons is to be
able to provide proper first/business class service all the way to destination.
A first class passenger that uses an AA for the LAX-JFK bit would be very
disapointed compared to the first class service he got on the SYD-LAX bit. And
when you are already tired from the SYD-LAX segment, you want to continue to
have good first class accomodations for the next leg.

It is perfectly understandable why, for domestic service, the US airlines are
scaling down the first/business class offering. But this has the unfortunate
side effect of devaluing international travel that relies on a domestic hop.

Not sure if this still happens, but there were a few cases where, on a key
domestic market, the US airline would use intl aircraft so that passengers would
get true J/F service on that leg which provided onward intl connections.

Re: Continental First(?) Class Redux

Nobody wrote:

> Not sure if this still happens, but there were a few cases where, on a
> key domestic market, the US airline would use intl aircraft so that
> passengers would get true J/F service on that leg which provided onward
> intl connections.

Not "true" J/F service, but at least you get the seats.
Yes, this is still done. However, the price is higher than regular FC.
In fact, AA even has a different FF award for it.

The OP's is complaining about something that is quite common worldwide,
and certainly not limited in the US to just CO. While he might have paid
$2500 extra for the SFO-IAH segments, it certainly could have been done
cheaper on a separate ticket. That would be a violation of the rules of
some airlines, but would not be a violation if flying on separate
carriers as the OP flew.