Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight


"Alan S" <nothere@there . com > wrote in message
news:fp6g13tkmb9t7lntd4d5ed4ab4gt9rq3nj@4ax . com ...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:43:38 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
> <dhenriques@rcn . com > wrote:
>
>>The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The
>>issue
>>of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a
>>take
>>off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the
>>flight
>>and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
>>Northwest.
>>Frankly, its a good thing they discovered this. Whatever it was he was
>>involved with on that phone, it wasn't consistent with normal flight
>>safety
>>procedures.
>>Dudley Henriques
>
> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
> available for situations like this.
>
> Pilots can become unavailable for all sorts of reasons at
> short notice; medical, sobriety, or just simple stuff-ups.
> Major airlines at major terminals should be able to plan for
> such cases. We had a situation last year at LAX where AA's
> scheduled captain for a LAX-HNL flight didn't turn up at all
> - because he was at his own retirement party and the
> management hadn't realised that. We waited three hours while
> they got an off-duty pilot out of bed and he drove 90 miles
> to LAX to take us to Hawaii. The busiest airline in America
> at the second-busiest airport didn't have a short-notice
> pilot available qualified as an over-water captain.
>
> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
> properly.
>

What is the world are you thinking, that makes total sense. Something that
most Airline management is real short on.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight


"Maxwell" <luv2fly99@cox . net > wrote in message
news:paVRh.17603$YJ4.7598@newsfe23.lga...
>
> "Alan S" <nothere@there . com > wrote in message
> news:fp6g13tkmb9t7lntd4d5ed4ab4gt9rq3nj@4ax . com ...
>> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:43:38 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
>> <dhenriques@rcn . com > wrote:
>>
>>>The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The
>>>issue
>>>of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a
>>>take
>>>off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the
>>>flight
>>>and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
>>>Northwest.
>>>Frankly, its a good thing they discovered this. Whatever it was he was
>>>involved with on that phone, it wasn't consistent with normal flight
>>>safety
>>>procedures.
>>>Dudley Henriques
>>
>> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
>> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
>> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
>> available for situations like this.
>>
>> Pilots can become unavailable for all sorts of reasons at
>> short notice; medical, sobriety, or just simple stuff-ups.
>> Major airlines at major terminals should be able to plan for
>> such cases. We had a situation last year at LAX where AA's
>> scheduled captain for a LAX-HNL flight didn't turn up at all
>> - because he was at his own retirement party and the
>> management hadn't realised that. We waited three hours while
>> they got an off-duty pilot out of bed and he drove 90 miles
>> to LAX to take us to Hawaii. The busiest airline in America
>> at the second-busiest airport didn't have a short-notice
>> pilot available qualified as an over-water captain.
>>
>> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
>> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
>> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
>> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
>> properly.
>>
>
> What is the world are you thinking, that makes total sense. Something that
> most Airline management is real short on.
>
>


You mean a Captain qualified in all aircraft for all types of flight?
Overwater, cat III current, 747-400, 737, 757, airbus, everything? Probably
have to have at least three to cover all shifts.

Al G

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

Read up the subject of Part 121 duty time and rest time requirements. If the
"standby pilot" was on a rest period, any assignment to a flight would
violate the regs. In my opinion, the pilot's unions would go crazy if you
suggestion was implemented.

Bob Gardner

"Alan S" <nothere@there . com > wrote in message
news:fp6g13tkmb9t7lntd4d5ed4ab4gt9rq3nj@4ax . com ...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:43:38 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
> <dhenriques@rcn . com > wrote:
>
>>The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The
>>issue
>>of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a
>>take
>>off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the
>>flight
>>and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
>>Northwest.
>>Frankly, its a good thing they discovered this. Whatever it was he was
>>involved with on that phone, it wasn't consistent with normal flight
>>safety
>>procedures.
>>Dudley Henriques
>
> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
> available for situations like this.
>
> Pilots can become unavailable for all sorts of reasons at
> short notice; medical, sobriety, or just simple stuff-ups.
> Major airlines at major terminals should be able to plan for
> such cases. We had a situation last year at LAX where AA's
> scheduled captain for a LAX-HNL flight didn't turn up at all
> - because he was at his own retirement party and the
> management hadn't realised that. We waited three hours while
> they got an off-duty pilot out of bed and he drove 90 miles
> to LAX to take us to Hawaii. The busiest airline in America
> at the second-busiest airport didn't have a short-notice
> pilot available qualified as an over-water captain.
>
> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
> properly.
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> --
> * loraltravel.blogspot . com /
> latest: Epidaurus
> * loraldiabetes.blogspot . com /

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

Alan S writes:

> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
> of the most common aircraft types?

Very, given how much some are paid. And there aren't that many to go around.
Airlines like to keep their pilots working, not sitting around at an airport
"just in case."

> It should even be
> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
> properly.

Since airlines often have very different policies and procedures, right down
to cockpit procedures and even options for the aircraft avionics, pooling
pilots probably wouldn't work.

--
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Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight


"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:cpcg13950i8jjvf39b6bgh4024drhva60h@4ax . com ...
> Alan S writes:
>
>> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
>> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
>> of the most common aircraft types?

They do - at least at the pilot bases. It is called "Reserve" and most
pilots (and flight attendants) spend up to several years on reserve before
having enough seniority to hold a line bid. On reserve, the pilot/FA is
supposed to be able to be at the airport, ready to go (anywhere) within an
hour.
>
> Very, given how much some are paid. And there aren't that many to go
> around.
> Airlines like to keep their pilots working, not sitting around at an
> airport
> "just in case."

Most pilots have taken a major hit on pay, at least in the U.S., over the
past 5 years. Some of them (on the commuters, regionals, etc.) are on food
stamps. The day of the $250,000 a year pilot are generally history.
>
>> It should even be
>> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
>> properly.
>
> Since airlines often have very different policies and procedures, right
> down
> to cockpit procedures and even options for the aircraft avionics, pooling
> pilots probably wouldn't work.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

The way it usually works on the majors (at least this is the word I get from
the guys who are flying the big iron) is that when there's an incident like
this and it reaches a certain point, they don't try to resolve it on the
spot. They shut the flight down and secure everything and begin from there.
Not sure if the front office or the fuzz makes the call, but you can bet
it's a PIA for any pilot who allows a situation like this to reach that
point
:-))
Dudley Henriques

"Alan S" <nothere@there . com > wrote in message
news:fp6g13tkmb9t7lntd4d5ed4ab4gt9rq3nj@4ax . com ...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:43:38 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
> <dhenriques@rcn . com > wrote:
>
>>The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The
>>issue
>>of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a
>>take
>>off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the
>>flight
>>and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
>>Northwest.
>>Frankly, its a good thing they discovered this. Whatever it was he was
>>involved with on that phone, it wasn't consistent with normal flight
>>safety
>>procedures.
>>Dudley Henriques
>
> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
> available for situations like this.
>
> Pilots can become unavailable for all sorts of reasons at
> short notice; medical, sobriety, or just simple stuff-ups.
> Major airlines at major terminals should be able to plan for
> such cases. We had a situation last year at LAX where AA's
> scheduled captain for a LAX-HNL flight didn't turn up at all
> - because he was at his own retirement party and the
> management hadn't realised that. We waited three hours while
> they got an off-duty pilot out of bed and he drove 90 miles
> to LAX to take us to Hawaii. The busiest airline in America
> at the second-busiest airport didn't have a short-notice
> pilot available qualified as an over-water captain.
>
> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
> properly.
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> --
> * loraltravel.blogspot . com /
> latest: Epidaurus
> * loraldiabetes.blogspot . com /

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

> <dhenriq...@rcn . com > wrote:
> >The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The issue
> >of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a take
> >off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the flight
> >and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
> >Northwest.
A few misconceptions here. The FAA did not remove the pilot from the
flight. They do not have the authority to do this except in cases of
intoxication or gross vilolations . The FAA notified management and
they removed him from the flight. Acting like a jerk is bad, but it is
not a violation of FARs. In order to have a hearing, you have to have
an investigation. We dont know what the outcome of that is yet. The
FAA probably cannot revoke the pilots certificate over this, but his
medical is another mater. Chances are, this incident will be taken
care of with a trip to the chief pilots office.

>
> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
> available for situations like this.

Airlines do have pilots on reserve. But this is not an NWA domicile,
and the only thing they could do is get another pilot who is on a lay
over and on the same equipment who is legal to fly (Per the duty time
and rest requirements), or fly someone in from a domicile. If this
takes too long, it can effect operations downstream, which is why
airlines will sometimes cancel flights for reasons that might not be
readily apparent
>
>
> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
> properly.

Dont know about down under, but here in the states, pilots are not
dual qualified. In order to fly for another airline, a pilot would
have to attend their training. The planes are different, the
procedures and ops specs are different etc.. Even if a pilot could
train for the 2 dozen or so airlines that fly into SFO, there would be
almost no way he could stay current.
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> -- * loraltravel.blogspot . com /
> latest: Epidaurus * loraldiabetes.blogspot . com /

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

I'm sticking my preverbal neck out here as I haven't been in the regs for
many years :-))

Not sure just who actually removed the pilot from the flight, and it very
well might have been the front office, but the FAA can and indeed has
stopped pilots from taking off many times for various reasons. The legality
is usually settled later, but if a pilot is acting in an emotionally
unstable manner inconsistent with his duties , the FAA most certainly can,
if informed in time and able to act, stop the flight.
Two disqualifying disorders that nullify a medical certificate are
psychological disorders and psychosis. The legality of whether or not these
factors are present in the pre-flight demonstrated behavior of a pilot isn't
what stops the flight. Its the demonstrated behavior contrary to safe flight
practices that will stop the flight.
Granted, its a toss up on whether or not the behavior of this pilot legally
qualifies under the regulations, but demonstrated behavior contrary to
established safety standards is definitely basis for the FAA or the front
office to intervene, stopping the flight from progressing.
The lawyers will then naturally get involved and tear it all apart, but I'm
fairly certain under the stated conditions of the eye witnesses the FAA
could indeed intervene. But all said and done, I tend to agree with you that
it very well might have been the front office in this case.
Dudley Henriques


"K Baum" <kkwagp@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:1175995312.182389.6260@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups . com ...
>> <dhenriq...@rcn . com > wrote:
>> >The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The
>> >issue
>> >of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a
>> >take
>> >off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the
>> >flight
>> >and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
>> >Northwest.
> A few misconceptions here. The FAA did not remove the pilot from the
> flight. They do not have the authority to do this except in cases of
> intoxication or gross vilolations . The FAA notified management and
> they removed him from the flight. Acting like a jerk is bad, but it is
> not a violation of FARs. In order to have a hearing, you have to have
> an investigation. We dont know what the outcome of that is yet. The
> FAA probably cannot revoke the pilots certificate over this, but his
> medical is another mater. Chances are, this incident will be taken
> care of with a trip to the chief pilots office.
>
>>
>> Agreed. I wouldn't want to have been on that flight if it
>> had taken off with him in command. However, it does
>> reinforce the need for airlines to have reserve pilots
>> available for situations like this.
>
> Airlines do have pilots on reserve. But this is not an NWA domicile,
> and the only thing they could do is get another pilot who is on a lay
> over and on the same equipment who is legal to fly (Per the duty time
> and rest requirements), or fly someone in from a domicile. If this
> takes too long, it can effect operations downstream, which is why
> airlines will sometimes cancel flights for reasons that might not be
> readily apparent
>>
> >
>> Just how expensive would it be for the majors to have a
>> short-notice pilot on call at each major terminal for each
>> of the most common aircraft types? It should even be
>> possible to have a pool system across companies if organised
>> properly.
>
> Dont know about down under, but here in the states, pilots are not
> dual qualified. In order to fly for another airline, a pilot would
> have to attend their training. The planes are different, the
> procedures and ops specs are different etc.. Even if a pilot could
> train for the 2 dozen or so airlines that fly into SFO, there would be
> almost no way he could stay current.
>>
>> Cheers, Alan, Australia
>> -- * loraltravel.blogspot . com /
>> latest: Epidaurus * loraldiabetes.blogspot . com /
>
>

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

On Apr 7, 1:43 pm, "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriq...@rcn . com > wrote:
> The real issue here isn't the language used by the pilot per se'. The issue
> of importance is the pilot's emotional and mental state leading up to a take
> off which the language indicated. This is why the FAA got him off the flight
> and probably why, after the hearing, he will no longer be employed by
> Northwest.
> Frankly, its a good thing they discovered this. Whatever it was he was
> involved with on that phone, it wasn't consistent with normal flight safety
> procedures.
> Dudley Henriques
>
> "Thank you for flying F ck Air" <thank...@forflying.f-ck.air> wrote in
> messagenews:apjf131bsdm6abatrdfsi8j0mh8d6864t7@news...
>
>
>
> > Flight canceled after pilot curses at passengers
> > April 7, 2007
>
> > (CNN) -- Northwest Airlines canceled a flight with 180 passengers
> > aboard after the pilot began cursing at passengers while the plane was
> > being prepared for takeoff in Las Vegas on Friday, airline officials
> > and witnesses said.
>
> > The cancellation disrupted Easter travel plans for many of the
> > passengers.
>
> > From the moment the captain stepped aboard Flight 1190 to Detroit,
> > first-class passengers reported hearing him use "animated" language
> > while talking on his cell phone, Federal Aviation Administration
> > spokesman Ian Gregor told CNN.
>
> > "He was having a fit, swearing up a storm," a passenger on the flight
> > said. "He was saying 'F this' and 'F that.'"
>
> > When confronted about it by passengers, the pilot became "obscene" and
> > began cursing at the customers, she said. "He made a big disturbance."
>
> > The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police and the local FAA flight standards
> > office were notified, Gregor said. Police arrived on the scene, pulled
> > the pilot aside and interviewed him.
>
> > He was not administered a field sobriety test. Gregor said he did not
> > know the reasons behind that decision and CNN was unable to
> > immediately contact the police officers involved.
>
> > The FAA officials called Northwest Airlines headquarters and were
> > instructed by the chief pilot for the company to remove the pilot from
> > the aircraft. The chief pilot also requested that the pilot be flown
> > to Detroit for further questioning, Gregor said.
>
> > Northwest Airlines then canceled the flight, apologized for the delay
> > and offered hotel accommodations and penalty-free re-booking on the
> > next available flight out of Las Vegas, a spokesman for the airline
> > said.
>
> > The airline said "a review of the matter" was being conducted and the
> > decision to cancel the flight was made "due to reports of
> > inappropriate language by a crew member."
>
> > Mike Fergus, an FAA spokesman, said the FAA's flight standards
> > investigation unit was looking into the incident. According to Fergus,
> > the FAA has the authority to send a "letter of admonition" to the
> > pilot or, in the most extreme cases, revoke a pilot's FAA certificate,
> > which would ground the pilot.
>
> > "I had to call and cancel two family dinners and we're stuck here an
> > extra night," a passenger said. "We've been at the airport for six
> > hours waiting -- it's chaos. It's Easter weekend...we want to be
> > home."
>
> > * w w w .cnn . com /2007/US/04/07/swearing.pilot/index.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just because somebody is swearing and cursing does not mean they are
an emotional basket case, it just means they are angry. What, were
they worried he was going to have road rage on the runway?

Nearly all pilots are ex-military and they curse a lot in the
military, this is normal. Then when he was already angry some
politically correct passenger tried to admonish him, what a crock, he
is the captain of the plane, not some crummy hired hand. Being angry
would not have diminished his safety awareness.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

possumrex@yahoo . com writes:

> Just because somebody is swearing and cursing does not mean they are
> an emotional basket case, it just means they are angry.

There's a strong correlation between strong emotions and psychological
instability. Cursing at strangers is anomalous behavior; so is locking
oneself in the bathroom.

> What, were they worried he was going to have road rage on the runway?

Yes.

> Nearly all pilots are ex-military and they curse a lot in the
> military, this is normal.

Then why don't passengers routinely hear cursing from all pilots on all
flights?

> Then when he was already angry some politically correct passenger
> tried to admonish him, what a crock, he is the captain of the plane,
> not some crummy hired hand. Being angry would not have diminished
> his safety awareness.

Yes, it would. Any strong emotion influences judgement in a negative way.

You may wish to fly with psychos. I don't.

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Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

On Apr 8, 7:31 am, possum...@yahoo . com wrote:
> >

> Just because somebody is swearing and cursing does not mean they are
> an emotional basket case, it just means they are angry. What, were
> they worried he was going to have road rage on the runway?

Possum, this is an exelent fucking point ! This pilot did not violate
any FARs and he apparently was in control of his faculties (So he
wasnt tested), BUT, pilots at most airlines are taught to maintain the
utmost profesional behavior and apperance at all times. This is done
to try to inspire confidence within the traveling public. Most
airlines do not even allow the use of a cell phone inside the aircraft
with pax onboard (except when calling ops or dispatch). Cussing
directly at a pax is a HUGE no no and this pilot is probably gonna get
some time off over this.


> Nearly all pilots are ex-military and they curse a lot in the
> military, this is normal. Then when he was already angry some
> politically correct passenger tried to admonish him, what a crock, he
> is the captain of the plane, not some crummy hired hand. Being angry
> would not have diminished his safety awareness.-

Actually, most pilots have a civilian backround these days. They do
cuss alot at the commuters :) but there is a time and place for this.
Imagine if you had paid hundreds for a ticket and were then cussed at
buy the guy you are about to trust your life to. The airline did the
right thing by pulling this guy off of the flight.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

K Baum wrote:
> The airline did the
> right thing by pulling this guy off of the flight.

I am not 100% sure of this. The fact that this event made it to the media and
that we are discussing it here means that Northwest has more bad publicity about
its pilots. And it isn't the first time that the media have a field day with
Northwest Pilots.

Had they not done anything about it, a few pax would have bad a bad image of NW
pilots, but it wouldn't have made the news.

The pilot may have gotten screwed by some store or mistress and needed to let
out some angry words before leaving town. But after that phone call, he may have
returned to normal and once focused on his work, would not have thought about it.

I agree that it the invidivual did not uphold the expected professionalism. But
that could have been done in the form of a disciplinary action once he was back
at his home base, outside of the eyes ofthe media.

I wasn't there. Perhaps the pilot was truly out of it and truly unsafe to fly.
Perhaps he was just temporarily angry.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

Nobody writes:

> I am not 100% sure of this. The fact that this event made it to the media and
> that we are discussing it here means that Northwest has more bad publicity about
> its pilots. And it isn't the first time that the media have a field day with
> Northwest Pilots.

It's not a question of publicity, it's a question of the pilot being competent
to fly. His highly emotional behavior indicates that he was not in a
condition to fly. So he has to be pulled off the flight, irrespective of any
public-realtions issues.

> Had they not done anything about it, a few pax would have bad a bad image of NW
> pilots, but it wouldn't have made the news.

Or the plane would have crashed, and then they'd have a real public-relations,
business, and legal disaster on their hands.

--
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Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

On Apr 8, 5:26 pm, Nobody <nob...@nobody.org> wrote:
> K Baum wrote:
> > The airline did the
> > right thing by pulling this guy off of the flight.
>
> I am not 100% sure of this. The fact that this event made it to the media and
> that we are discussing it here means that Northwest has more bad publicity about
> its pilots. And it isn't the first time that the media have a field day with
> Northwest Pilots.

Nobody, this is a good point. It is interesting that since you
mentioned the media, I have read a trade E publication that has a much
different (And more logical) description of this event. It is alot
less colorful than the OP. NWA does make quite the target for the
media (as does most of aviation) .
>
> Had they not done anything about it, a few pax would have bad a bad image of NW
> pilots, but it wouldn't have made the news.

Unfortunatly, company pilocy dictates otherwise . it is standard policy
at most airlines that if a crew member is showing signs of any kind of
an issue, they are removed from a flight and the issue is discussed
with their supervisor. This is inconveniant for customers of course,
but it is done in the interest of safety. Contrary to the OP, the FAA
did not intervine in this case .
>
> The pilot may have gotten screwed by some store or mistress and needed to let
> out some angry words before leaving town. But after that phone call, he may have
> returned to normal and once focused on his work, would not have thought about it.

This is exactly what will be determined by this guys chief pilot.

>
> I agree that it the invidivual did not uphold the expected professionalism. But
> that could have been done in the form of a disciplinary action once he was back
> at his home base, outside of the eyes ofthe media.

In this case (as in many others) the eyes of the media were blind to
the truth. But, the truth in this case was not nearly as
entertaining.
Something I would like to ad for clarification to others on this
thread is that drug testing is random. Alcohol testing isnt (Contrary
to what others have posted). A pilot can be ask to submit to an
alcohol screening only in certain curcumstances. Hope this helps.
>
> I wasn't there. Perhaps the pilot was truly out of it and truly unsafe to fly.
> Perhaps he was just temporarily angry.

Re: Obscene pilot forces Northwest to cancel flight

K Baum writes:

> Something I would like to ad for clarification to others on this
> thread is that drug testing is random. Alcohol testing isnt (Contrary
> to what others have posted). A pilot can be ask to submit to an
> alcohol screening only in certain curcumstances. Hope this helps.

Why is alcohol treated differently? It's a drug like any other.

--
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