replacement top for 91

replacement top for 91

Bought a used 91 Miata. Now needs a new top. Rear window zipper gone and
now cracking/splitting."

Local convetile top guy says "You buy the top and I'll install it."

recommendations for top?

glass window?

Longevity of tops with glass windows?

Re: replacement top for 91

That's a fairly 'meaty' discussion. You'll probably get some good info here
but I'm sure you can read countless reviews / opinions on miata,net .
Probably worth the time.

Good luck,
Chris
99BBB


"coach" <hokiemike@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:rZadnV7U5spOzrPVnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@metrocastcablevision,com ...
> Bought a used 91 Miata. Now needs a new top. Rear window zipper gone and
> now cracking/splitting."
>
> Local convetile top guy says "You buy the top and I'll install it."
>
> recommendations for top?
>
> glass window?
>
> Longevity of tops with glass windows?
>

Re: replacement top for 91

Here's a summary of NA (89-97) top replacement that I hope will help you...
There are many replacement tops available and there are considerations about
appearance, cost, and quality.
They can be purchased in the original relatively maintenance free vinyl or
the more expensive and fancy looking cloth (which requires waterproofing
from time to time and is less forgiving about clean up with contact to
unusual things like tree sap).
The top can be exactly like your original, made from two pieces, one for the
top and one for the window, or it can come in one piece.
The top can be of the non-zipped or zipped type and can have a plastic or
glass window.
To install a non-zipped top on a NA (89-97) requires some drilling into the
second and third bows for the installation of some straps that keep the top
positioned correctly when closed. In this configuration the top it not
attached to the third box and you have to reach inside to pinch the third
box toward the second when opening the top (and vice versa when closing the
top). Not a big deal at all, but different than what you are used to.
It is worth buying a new rain rail (gutter that runs along the rear edge of
the top) if you have no idea of the condition of the current one. An old
rain rail will likely be riddled with cracks that cause leaks and to patch
it with silicon is time consuming and may not work.
Also, there are cables that run along the side of the top that might need to
replacement. These are called top tension cables. If the top it loose
around the edges against the windows, your cable may have snapped and need
replacement. If the top seems fine then you probably do not have to replace
these.
There are many dealers for tops and the short list is:
Robbins (available from miatamania,com and others)
Duettomotors,com (sells robins and their own) - offer good installation
instructions with purchase)
Kwiktops,com (sells robbins and their own)
For what it is worth, I highly recommend getting a glass window. Being able
to see is the best safety feature you have. Since I like the original oem
style two piece look better than the one piece, and I like the cloth better
than the vinyl, that is what I got. But, if on a budget, or for a car that
simply isn't long for this world, it might make more sense to get a
inexpensive vinyl top with plastic window for as little as $200.

ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not sit as
low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models you can
not use the original boot to cover the open top. The animated one piece top
on duetto,com is a perfect example of this, showing the open top sitting
above the beltline when opened. I am not certain, but I think that this was
an issue with earlier robbin tops and they have since sorted out the
problem - worth asking robbins about it before ordering or you may be
looking at getting a new boot too.

"coach" <hokiemike@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:rZadnV7U5spOzrPVnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@metrocastcablevision,com ...
> Bought a used 91 Miata. Now needs a new top. Rear window zipper gone and
> now cracking/splitting."
>
> Local convetile top guy says "You buy the top and I'll install it."
>
> recommendations for top?
>
> glass window?
>
> Longevity of tops with glass windows?
>

Re: replacement top for 91

'box' should read as 'bow'...

"Christoper Muto" <muto@worldnet.att,net > wrote in message
news:xradnbY2aoUGU7PVnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@earthlink,com ...
> Here's a summary of NA (89-97) top replacement that I hope will help
> you...
> There are many replacement tops available and there are considerations
> about appearance, cost, and quality.
> They can be purchased in the original relatively maintenance free vinyl or
> the more expensive and fancy looking cloth (which requires waterproofing
> from time to time and is less forgiving about clean up with contact to
> unusual things like tree sap).
> The top can be exactly like your original, made from two pieces, one for
> the top and one for the window, or it can come in one piece.
> The top can be of the non-zipped or zipped type and can have a plastic or
> glass window.
> To install a non-zipped top on a NA (89-97) requires some drilling into
> the second and third bows for the installation of some straps that keep
> the top positioned correctly when closed. In this configuration the top
> it not attached to the third box and you have to reach inside to pinch the
> third box toward the second when opening the top (and vice versa when
> closing the top). Not a big deal at all, but different than what you are
> used to.
> It is worth buying a new rain rail (gutter that runs along the rear edge
> of the top) if you have no idea of the condition of the current one. An
> old rain rail will likely be riddled with cracks that cause leaks and to
> patch it with silicon is time consuming and may not work.
> Also, there are cables that run along the side of the top that might need
> to replacement. These are called top tension cables. If the top it loose
> around the edges against the windows, your cable may have snapped and need
> replacement. If the top seems fine then you probably do not have to
> replace these.
> There are many dealers for tops and the short list is:
> Robbins (available from miatamania,com and others)
> Duettomotors,com (sells robins and their own) - offer good installation
> instructions with purchase)
> Kwiktops,com (sells robbins and their own)
> For what it is worth, I highly recommend getting a glass window. Being
> able to see is the best safety feature you have. Since I like the
> original oem style two piece look better than the one piece, and I like
> the cloth better than the vinyl, that is what I got. But, if on a budget,
> or for a car that simply isn't long for this world, it might make more
> sense to get a inexpensive vinyl top with plastic window for as little as
> $200.
>
> ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not sit
> as low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
> you can not use the original boot to cover the open top. The animated one
> piece top on duetto,com is a perfect example of this, showing the open top
> sitting above the beltline when opened. I am not certain, but I think
> that this was an issue with earlier robbin tops and they have since sorted
> out the problem - worth asking robbins about it before ordering or you may
> be looking at getting a new boot too.
>
> "coach" <hokiemike@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:rZadnV7U5spOzrPVnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@metrocastcablevision,com ...
>> Bought a used 91 Miata. Now needs a new top. Rear window zipper gone and
>> now cracking/splitting."
>>
>> Local convetile top guy says "You buy the top and I'll install it."
>>
>> recommendations for top?
>>
>> glass window?
>>
>> Longevity of tops with glass windows?
>>
>
>

Re: replacement top for 91

Christoper Muto wrote:
> Here's a summary of NA (89-97) top replacement that I hope will help you...
> There are many replacement tops available and there are considerations about
> appearance, cost, and quality.
> They can be purchased in the original relatively maintenance free vinyl or
> the more expensive and fancy looking cloth (which requires waterproofing
> from time to time and is less forgiving about clean up with contact to
> unusual things like tree sap).
> The top can be exactly like your original, made from two pieces, one for the
> top and one for the window, or it can come in one piece.
> The top can be of the non-zipped or zipped type and can have a plastic or
> glass window.
> To install a non-zipped top on a NA (89-97) requires some drilling into the
> second and third bows for the installation of some straps that keep the top
> positioned correctly when closed. In this configuration the top it not
> attached to the third box and you have to reach inside to pinch the third
> box toward the second when opening the top (and vice versa when closing the
> top). Not a big deal at all, but different than what you are used to.
> It is worth buying a new rain rail (gutter that runs along the rear edge of
> the top) if you have no idea of the condition of the current one. An old
> rain rail will likely be riddled with cracks that cause leaks and to patch
> it with silicon is time consuming and may not work.
> Also, there are cables that run along the side of the top that might need to
> replacement. These are called top tension cables. If the top it loose
> around the edges against the windows, your cable may have snapped and need
> replacement. If the top seems fine then you probably do not have to replace
> these.
> There are many dealers for tops and the short list is:
> Robbins (available from miatamania,com and others)
> Duettomotors,com (sells robins and their own) - offer good installation
> instructions with purchase)
> Kwiktops,com (sells robbins and their own)
> For what it is worth, I highly recommend getting a glass window. Being able
> to see is the best safety feature you have. Since I like the original oem
> style two piece look better than the one piece, and I like the cloth better
> than the vinyl, that is what I got. But, if on a budget, or for a car that
> simply isn't long for this world, it might make more sense to get a
> inexpensive vinyl top with plastic window for as little as $200.
>
> ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not sit as
> low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models you can
> not use the original boot to cover the open top. The animated one piece top
> on duetto,com is a perfect example of this, showing the open top sitting
> above the beltline when opened. I am not certain, but I think that this was
> an issue with earlier robbin tops and they have since sorted out the
> problem - worth asking robbins about it before ordering or you may be
> looking at getting a new boot too.

Beautiful post, Chris. This should be archived somewhere to be
referenced by anyone looking to do their NA tops without prior knowledge
on what to expect.

The only thing that I would add is the option to install a 1999-2005 top
on a 1989-1997 Miata.
It is an exact, perfect-fit swap out if you also use the 1999-2005 top
frame, or it will need some modification to fit the newer top onto a NA
Miata top frame.

An expensive upgrade from the factory, but you can sometimes get lucky
and find someone selling the entire frame and top from a NB Miata that
they are turning into a race track toy.

Pat

Re: replacement top for 91

"pws" <pwshelton@austin.rr,com > wrote in message
news:482ef391$0$30496$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
> Christoper Muto wrote:
>> Here's a summary of NA (89-97) top replacement that I hope will help
>> you...
>> There are many replacement tops available and there are considerations
>> about appearance, cost, and quality.
>> They can be purchased in the original relatively maintenance free vinyl
>> or the more expensive and fancy looking cloth (which requires
>> waterproofing from time to time and is less forgiving about clean up with
>> contact to unusual things like tree sap).
>> The top can be exactly like your original, made from two pieces, one for
>> the top and one for the window, or it can come in one piece.
>> The top can be of the non-zipped or zipped type and can have a plastic or
>> glass window.
>> To install a non-zipped top on a NA (89-97) requires some drilling into
>> the second and third bows for the installation of some straps that keep
>> the top positioned correctly when closed. In this configuration the top
>> it not attached to the third box and you have to reach inside to pinch
>> the third box toward the second when opening the top (and vice versa when
>> closing the top). Not a big deal at all, but different than what you are
>> used to.
>> It is worth buying a new rain rail (gutter that runs along the rear edge
>> of the top) if you have no idea of the condition of the current one. An
>> old rain rail will likely be riddled with cracks that cause leaks and to
>> patch it with silicon is time consuming and may not work.
>> Also, there are cables that run along the side of the top that might need
>> to replacement. These are called top tension cables. If the top it
>> loose around the edges against the windows, your cable may have snapped
>> and need replacement. If the top seems fine then you probably do not
>> have to replace these.
>> There are many dealers for tops and the short list is:
>> Robbins (available from miatamania,com and others)
>> Duettomotors,com (sells robins and their own) - offer good installation
>> instructions with purchase)
>> Kwiktops,com (sells robbins and their own)
>> For what it is worth, I highly recommend getting a glass window. Being
>> able to see is the best safety feature you have. Since I like the
>> original oem style two piece look better than the one piece, and I like
>> the cloth better than the vinyl, that is what I got. But, if on a
>> budget, or for a car that simply isn't long for this world, it might make
>> more sense to get a inexpensive vinyl top with plastic window for as
>> little as $200.
>>
>> ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not sit
>> as low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
>> you can not use the original boot to cover the open top. The animated
>> one piece top on duetto,com is a perfect example of this, showing the
>> open top sitting above the beltline when opened. I am not certain, but I
>> think that this was an issue with earlier robbin tops and they have since
>> sorted out the problem - worth asking robbins about it before ordering or
>> you may be looking at getting a new boot too.
>
> Beautiful post, Chris. This should be archived somewhere to be referenced
> by anyone looking to do their NA tops without prior knowledge on what to
> expect.
>
> The only thing that I would add is the option to install a 1999-2005 top
> on a 1989-1997 Miata.
> It is an exact, perfect-fit swap out if you also use the 1999-2005 top
> frame, or it will need some modification to fit the newer top onto a NA
> Miata top frame.
>
> An expensive upgrade from the factory, but you can sometimes get lucky and
> find someone selling the entire frame and top from a NB Miata that they
> are turning into a race track toy.
>
> Pat

thanks pat, but after re-reading it i think i could have done a bit better.
though the fundamental issues are indeed there. your suggestion about
fitting the NB (99-2005) top on a NA is a good one i overlooked. to
understand it correctly, one has to install a nb top with frame, correct?
and the bennifit of doing so is to have frame that is spring loaded so one
does not have to pinch the second and thrid bows together/apart to
open/clost the top, right?

Re: replacement top for 91

Christoper Muto wrote:

> ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not
sit as
> low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
you can
> not use the original boot to cover the open top.

Not true, Chris. My 90 has a Robbins top with glass window and the
taller rests; the original top boot works just fine.

I chronicled my experience putting this top on the car here:

http :// www .miata,net /garage/robbins top installation.html

Interesting to note that my repair of the tension cable is still holding
up fine eight years later.

Ken

Re: replacement top for 91

"KWS" <noaccount@nospam,com > wrote in message
news:yO6dnZcVEco3iKjVnZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@comcast,com ...
> Christoper Muto wrote:
>
> > ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not
> sit as
> > low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
> you can
> > not use the original boot to cover the open top.
>
> Not true, Chris. My 90 has a Robbins top with glass window and the taller
> rests; the original top boot works just fine.
>
> I chronicled my experience putting this top on the car here:
>
> http :// www .miata,net /garage/robbins_top_installation.html
>
> Interesting to note that my repair of the tension cable is still holding
> up fine eight years later.
>
> Ken

ken, i recall reading your posting when i was building my courage to do my
top a few years back. thanks for that. if i understand you correctly, you
are saying that the robins glass top (of about 2000 vintage) does sit higher
than the belt line when open but the boot still fits anyway. i am curious
to know if it is a zipper or zipperless top. and if zipperless, is it is
single piece or two piece style. interesting that they duetto (and i think
moss also) people told me i would have to get a new boot along with the
robins top when i was shopping a couple of years back. they did say that
they older robins tops sat very high when open but the newer ones are not as
pronounced. perhaps his information was based on the older models and the
new ones don't have a fitment problem with the boot, or perhaps he was just
being a salesman and trying to sell something regardless of my needs... but
the kwiktops zipperless two piece glass top does not sit higher that the
belt line (like the oem). wonder what they do differently. the glass
window in both is mazda oem glass so it can't be that. possibly it has to
do with a slight difference in the location of the window that results in
better folding.
ps. did your daughter ever get the car?

Re: replacement top for 91

Christoper Muto wrote:
> "KWS" <noaccount@nospam,com > wrote in message
> news:yO6dnZcVEco3iKjVnZ2dnUVZ tajnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>> Christoper Muto wrote:
>>
>>> ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not
>> sit as
>>> low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
>> you can
>>> not use the original boot to cover the open top.
>> Not true, Chris. My 90 has a Robbins top with glass window and the taller
>> rests; the original top boot works just fine.
>>
>> I chronicled my experience putting this top on the car here:
>>
>> http :// www .miata,net /garage/robbins top installation.html
>>
>> Interesting to note that my repair of the tension cable is still holding
>> up fine eight years later.
>>
>> Ken
>
> ken, i recall reading your posting when i was building my courage to do my
> top a few years back. thanks for that. if i understand you correctly, you
> are saying that the robins glass top (of about 2000 vintage) does sit higher
> than the belt line when open but the boot still fits anyway.

There are two stops for the top frame. The stops are plastic and, if I
recall correctly, are secured with one screw. The top came with new
stops that were taller. Therefore, the frame, when compressed (top down)
sits higher. I think they did this to keep pressure off the glass when
the top is folded. At that time, I did not challenge their wisdom and
used the new stops.
i am curious
> to know if it is a zipper or zipperless top.

It is a zippered top.
and if zipperless, is it is
> single piece or two piece style. interesting that they duetto (and i think
> moss also) people told me i would have to get a new boot along with the
> robins top when i was shopping a couple of years back. they did say that
> they older robins tops sat very high when open but the newer ones are not as
> pronounced. perhaps his information was based on the older models and the
> new ones don't have a fitment problem with the boot, or perhaps he was just
> being a salesman and trying to sell something regardless of my needs... but
> the kwiktops zipperless two piece glass top does not sit higher that the
> belt line (like the oem). wonder what they do differently. the glass
> window in both is mazda oem glass so it can't be that.

In my case, there is no OEM glass since the '90 did not come with a
glass window.

possibly it has to
> do with a slight difference in the location of the window that results in
> better folding.
> ps. did your daughter ever get the car?

She did and used it while she was a student at UC Davis. Upon
graduation, she was employed and (with a little help from her Dad)
bought a Mazda Protege in the last year of production. The car came back
to me and has been my daily driver for several years.

The bad news was that she had the top slashed in the parking lot of her
apartment building. I did a reasonable repair that has held up fine, but
it is obvious. Other than that, the top performs well and the glass rear
window continues to be a significant upgrade. Perhaps when a few more
dolllars are available, I'll do the top again. Right now, I am
contemplating changing the clutch, but first want to pass 200,000 miles
on the original one. That's about 1500 miles off.

Ken
>
>

Re: replacement top for 91

"KWS" <noaccount@nospam,com > wrote
> Christoper Muto wrote:
>
> > ps. I have seen that some of the one piece glass windowed tops do not
> sit as
> > low as the stock top when opened. This means that with those models
> you can
> > not use the original boot to cover the open top.
>
> Not true, Chris. My 90 has a Robbins top with glass window and the taller
> rests; the original top boot works just fine.
>

Same for the Robbins no-zip glass top I installed on our '90. While the top
sits higher, the boot does fit. I compared the folded top height to my
1997's original here:
http :// www .cardomain,com /ride/334058/4

--
Ken Lyons '97 Brilliant Black/'90 Classic Red
Inside the Beltway

Re: replacement top for 91

"Ken Lyons" <1997MiataDriver@verizon,net > wrote:

> "KWS" <noaccount@nospam,com > wrote

>> My 90 has a Robbins top with glass window and the taller rests;
>> the original top boot works just fine.

> Same for the Robbins no-zip glass top I installed on our '90.
> While the top sits higher, the boot does fit. I compared the
> folded top height to my 1997's original here:
> http :// www .cardomain,com /ride/334058/4

Couldn't prove it by me, my NA had a glass window Kwiktop when I bought
it and I ordered my tonneau cover for the glass window top. When I got
the new Robbins zippless top, the cover fit fairly snugly for a month
or so but now it's got some extra room and I believe a standard tonneau
cover would fit now w/o much stretching.

So, the top sits higher and.... it may not make any difference as you
and KWS point out.



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http :// improve-usenet.org

Re: replacement top for 91

coach wrote:
>
> Bought a used 91 Miata.

Yeah!

> Now needs a new top. Rear window zipper gone and
> now cracking/splitting."
>
> Local convetile top guy says "You buy the top and I'll install it."
>
> recommendations for top?
>
> glass window?
>
> Longevity of tops with glass windows?

Having had a '93 with the zippered plastic window and a '99 with the
fixed glass window, I can tell you that the glass one is a lot easier to
see through than an 11-year-old scratched plastic one, and it only takes
five seconds to drop the top on my '99 compared with 20-30 seconds for
the zipper top. (The reason it used to take so long is because I'd
always a.) lay a towel on the rear deck, b.) unzip the window, c.) lay
another towel over the window, and d.) drop the top.)

But if I ever have to replace my '99's top I'll be looking for a top
with an unzippable plastic window anyway. They're cheaper, the window
is bigger, and when they're less than eight or nine years old (and the
'93 spent its entire life under the plastic-eating Florida sun) they're
pretty much equally transparent. The big advantage to me is that I
could drive around with the top up and the rear window down, which is
real nice either in the hottest part of the Florida summer with the sun
beating down on my balding head, or also during our interminable monsoon
season. Also if you absent-mindedly lock your keys in the car, all you
have to do is slip your hand between the top and the window, push on the
slider from behind and unzip the window, and presto you're in.

If I lived some place where it snows, I'd probably go for the glass
window, though, as it wouldn't crack in the cold and it has an electric
heater built into it.

Yours jp

Re: replacement top for 91

"johnny p." <stelazine@butterfly,net > wrote:

> Having had a '93 with the zippered plastic window and a '99 with
> the fixed glass window, I can tell you that the glass one is a lot
> easier to see through

"Don't look back, something might be gaining on you!" -Sachel Paige.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http :// improve-usenet.org

Re: replacement top for 91

coach, I bought a '90 last year w/ a new zippered glass window. Love
it! I believe the brand is E-Z.

Chip L
>
> recommendations for top?
>
> glass window?
>
> Longevity of tops with glass windows?