Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But would
love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http :// yunx,com /valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http :// tinyurl,com /hmzj
http :// tinyurl,com /5apkg

Re: Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

"Joe" <really-faked-but-works@yunx,com > wrote in
news:E67Sj.6184$WS1.1762@trndny04:

> Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But
> would love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
>
> Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
>
> Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
> http :// yunx,com /valk.htm
>

Joe, I have been itching over the Outlook for awhile too.
I drove one about two weeks back - big , heavy, roomy, good power.
It does shift kinda hard and early when accelerating.

The 7/8 passenger seating is nice.
The 4500 tow rating is nice.
The 235 hp is nice.

The EPA estimates... not nice.
Also not nice, once you deck it out you are talking $40k !

I am collecting info on lots of other 7/8 passenger vehicles with tow
ratings above 4000 lbs - but EPA estimates of 20 city and 25 hwy or
better. I'd love to go hybrid, but it isn't there yet - they are doing
the BIG SUV's first, then maybe the Crossovers.

Re: Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

All I know is that the first generations (2007) had a shifting paradigm
issue which was resolved by a software update. 2008 Outlooks have this
already fixed. 24mpg hwy in a SUV with 275hp isn't too bad. The shifting on
the new V6's is something new for people used to dino-guzzling V8's, instead
of being tossed back into the seat, the V6 is very smooth.

check out www .cars,com and MSN Autos as well to compare and read all about
them.

--
marx404

_________________
"Joe" <really-faked-but-works@yunx,com > wrote in message
news:E67Sj.6184$WS1.1762@trndny04...
> Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But would
> love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
>
> Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
>
> Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
> http :// yunx,com /valk.htm
>
> Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
> http :// tinyurl,com /hmzj
> http :// tinyurl,com /5apkg
>
>
>

Re: Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

Joe turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But would
> love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
>

I looked at them and stayed the <insert explicitive here> away.

1. They're the same size as a Tahoe (roughly) yet don't have the power.
202"x79"x76", 5200 lbs for the Tahoe and 200"x78"x69", 4500 lbs for the
Outlook. 295hp/305 ft-lbs for the Tahoe and 275hp/251 ft-lbs for the
Outlook.

2. They don't get much better mileage - 14/19 for the tahoe and 16/24 for
the outlook.

3. They cost about the same.

4. They are front-wheel drive and have no locking differential.


Your money is better spent with a Tahoe/Yukon.

--
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powered by the lizard: www .opensuse.org

Re: Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

PerfectReign wrote:
> Joe turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>
>> Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But would
>> love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
>>
>
> I looked at them and stayed the <insert explicitive here> away.
>
> 1. They're the same size as a Tahoe (roughly) yet don't have the power.
> 202"x79"x76", 5200 lbs for the Tahoe and 200"x78"x69", 4500 lbs for the
> Outlook. 295hp/305 ft-lbs for the Tahoe and 275hp/251 ft-lbs for the
> Outlook.
>
> 2. They don't get much better mileage - 14/19 for the tahoe and 16/24 for
> the outlook.

Hmm, the highway mileage is 21% better on the Outlook. That's a fairly
significant difference.

> 3. They cost about the same.

If the Saturn dealer is actually sticking to MSRP, which I doubt, then
the Tahoe will have a lower street price.

> 4. They are front-wheel drive and have no locking differential.

No one is taking the Outlook off-road, so I question the need for a
locking or LS differential. It's like taking a Honda CR-V off road. The
AWD is good for one thing, and that's satisfying the legal requirement
to not put on chains when the CHP requires chains for non-AWD vehicles.

> Your money is better spent with a Tahoe/Yukon.

Yes, if you need a true SUV, rather than an MTV (Mall Terrain Vehicle).

Re: Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

SMS turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> PerfectReign wrote:
>> Joe turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>>
>>> Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But
>>> would
>>> love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
>>>
>>
>> I looked at them and stayed the <insert explicitive here> away.
>>
>> 1. They're the same size as a Tahoe (roughly) yet don't have the power.
>> 202"x79"x76", 5200 lbs for the Tahoe and 200"x78"x69", 4500 lbs for the
>> Outlook. 295hp/305 ft-lbs for the Tahoe and 275hp/251 ft-lbs for the
>> Outlook.
>>
>> 2. They don't get much better mileage - 14/19 for the tahoe and 16/24 for
>> the outlook.
>
> Hmm, the highway mileage is 21% better on the Outlook. That's a fairly
> significant difference.

Not really.

Let's take the current price of gas, $3.75/gallon near me. (I paid this the
other day to fill up the Vue.)

I drive 18,000 miles/year.

At 14 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,821 in gas.

At 16 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,218 in gas. A measly $600 difference, or
$50 per month.

At 19 miles per gallong, I'd pay $3552 in gas in a year.

At 24 miles per gallon, I'd pay $2812 in gas in a year.

Not that much difference for a real truck.


Oh, and on my avalanche, I have the 5.3L engine. In combined city/highway, I
get 17MPG. I don't know where the 14MPG comes into play on the Tahoe, with
a smaller engine. In a recent trip to death valley (from los angeles)
towing a tent trailer, I got 21MPG over 900 miles.



>
>> 3. They cost about the same.
>
> If the Saturn dealer is actually sticking to MSRP, which I doubt, then
> the Tahoe will have a lower street price.
>
>> 4. They are front-wheel drive and have no locking differential.
>
> No one is taking the Outlook off-road, so I question the need for a
> locking or LS differential. It's like taking a Honda CR-V off road.

Hey, I used to take my Kia Sedona off road...

http :// www .perfectreign,com /?q=node/17

I've taken the Avalanche in far more remote places.


> The
> AWD is good for one thing, and that's satisfying the legal requirement
> to not put on chains when the CHP requires chains for non-AWD vehicles.
>
>> Your money is better spent with a Tahoe/Yukon.
>
> Yes, if you need a true SUV, rather than an MTV (Mall Terrain Vehicle).

Valid point.

MTV - I like it!!


--
www .perfectreign,com || www .filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www .opensuse.org

What we learned from the Saturn Vue purchase

Since this is the third Saturn I and my youngest daughter have
purchased, I was curious when some posters here said the dealerships
were discounting the sticker. Dealerships here have always stuck to that
even when I asked why I should buy from X dealership instead of Y if the
price is the same and since my daughter was moving the Atlanta after the
purchase. This is true but it takes service out as their claimed
differentiator. In any case, could never get anyone to budge on sticker.

But where I found them to "negotiate" was on the trade-in. Now before
going to the dealer, we checked Edmunds for the value of the trade-in.
Edmunds. It was a 2002 SL1 with 72,000 miles, both side mirrors broke,
the center console arm rest damaged, a burn hole in the passenger seat
from a previous dumb-ass boyfriend, and a slight dent in the hood caused
by something from the road. Edmunds says about $2,800 which is what one
dealer offered. The other dealer offered $3,800 which I knew was way
over what it was worth.

When pressing the first dealer, they came up to $3,000 but held there.
So we went to the dealer offering the $3,800 and did the deal. Really
what we were getting was $1,000 off sticker.

The interesting thing, and we did not know this until after purchasing
the Vue, was that these two Saturn dealerships were actually owned by
the same person. How we found that out was the better trade-in price
dealer did not have the vehicle we wanted so he had to find something
close to what we wanted. He called his sister dealership and they would
not give up the Vue since "they were working a deal with another
customer" - probably us and they probably knew we had now gone to the
other dealership. So he got a Vue from another area dealer. He told us
the other dealership (that we had been to) and theirs was owned by the
same person.

So my suggestion is to go around to every Saturn dealership in the area
(we went to all but one) and try to negotiate your deal. For a $100 or
$200 buck difference, I would tend to go with the closest dealer. But
for $800 to $1000, I will go to a distant dealer. As it turned out, the
closest dealer had the best price, but since the daughter is moving, no
big deal either way.

When we were writing up the deal at the other dealer (the higher priced
place that we walked out of) I did try dickering on the documentation
(more profit) fee. That's when they pulled out a brochure showing all
this stuff (federal and state regulations) that they supposedly have to
file forms for. I told her it was completely bogus and said the State of
Ohio allows that as the maximum charge on a "retail installment
contract." The give a great description of this on the state consumer
website.

I do have a question that I am going to also ask the State of Ohio. If
you are arranging your own financing, so in sense you are paying the
dealer cash, then can they even charge this fee? The state seems to
indicate that this can be charged as part of the cost for them to
arrange financing. But if they are not, thus the contract is not an
installment contract, is this fee really legal?

So in a nutshell, by doing our homework and spending a bit of time, my
daughter saved herself a boatload of money compared to the other
dealers. She had a lot of fun and said she learned a lot about the process.

Thanks again to all who gave opinions on the Vue. So far, the 2.4L 4
banger seems to be doing really well and after putting 75 miles on the
Vue, the gas gauge is still on full. I hope that is a good indication
that she will getting fairly good gas mileage.

Re: What we learned from the Saturn Vue purchase

On May 2, 5:50 am, Hang Traitor Democrats
<liars thie...@DemocratsDestroyingAmerica,com > wrote:
> Since this is the third Saturn I and my youngest daughter have
> purchased, I was curious when some posters here said the dealerships
> were discounting the sticker. Dealerships here have always stuck to that
> even when I asked why I should buy from X dealership instead of Y if the
> price is the same and since my daughter was moving the Atlanta after the
> purchase. This is true but it takes service out as their claimed
> differentiator. In any case, could never get anyone to budge on sticker.
>
> But where I found them to "negotiate" was on the trade-in. Now before
> going to the dealer, we checked Edmunds for the value of the trade-in.
> Edmunds. It was a 2002 SL1 with 72,000 miles, both side mirrors broke,
> the center console arm rest damaged, a burn hole in the passenger seat
> from a previous dumb-ass boyfriend, and a slight dent in the hood caused
> by something from the road. Edmunds says about $2,800 which is what one
> dealer offered. The other dealer offered $3,800 which I knew was way
> over what it was worth.
>
> When pressing the first dealer, they came up to $3,000 but held there.
> So we went to the dealer offering the $3,800 and did the deal. Really
> what we were getting was $1,000 off sticker.
>
> The interesting thing, and we did not know this until after purchasing
> the Vue, was that these two Saturn dealerships were actually owned by
> the same person. How we found that out was the better trade-in price
> dealer did not have the vehicle we wanted so he had to find something
> close to what we wanted. He called his sister dealership and they would
> not give up the Vue since "they were working a deal with another
> customer" - probably us and they probably knew we had now gone to the
> other dealership. So he got a Vue from another area dealer. He told us
> the other dealership (that we had been to) and theirs was owned by the
> same person.
>
> So my suggestion is to go around to every Saturn dealership in the area
> (we went to all but one) and try to negotiate your deal. For a $100 or
> $200 buck difference, I would tend to go with the closest dealer. But
> for $800 to $1000, I will go to a distant dealer. As it turned out, the
> closest dealer had the best price, but since the daughter is moving, no
> big deal either way.
>
> When we were writing up the deal at the other dealer (the higher priced
> place that we walked out of) I did try dickering on the documentation
> (more profit) fee. That's when they pulled out a brochure showing all
> this stuff (federal and state regulations) that they supposedly have to
> file forms for. I told her it was completely bogus and said the State of
> Ohio allows that as the maximum charge on a "retail installment
> contract." The give a great description of this on the state consumer
> website.
>
> I do have a question that I am going to also ask the State of Ohio. If
> you are arranging your own financing, so in sense you are paying the
> dealer cash, then can they even charge this fee? The state seems to
> indicate that this can be charged as part of the cost for them to
> arrange financing. But if they are not, thus the contract is not an
> installment contract, is this fee really legal?

It's not a government fee, it's a junk fee. How much was it? Where I
live the doc fee is $35-50 and is easily take off if you press the
issue, though it's easier just to factor it into your offer by
subtracting it out.

Watch out for dealers that add junk fees like "closing fees" of $199
(a relative ran into this in South Carolina, and wen to another dealer
that didn't have this nonsense). Why don't they just call it
"additional dealer markup" since that's what its (because Saturn won't
let them because of the myth of MSRP). They even mention this fee on
their web site (" http :// www .saturnofflorence,com /"):

"This dealership charges a closing fee of $199.00, which is allowed by
SC Code Section 37-2-307. It is a charge that is permitted by law but
not required by law. The full cash price charged at any dealership
depends on many factors, including all products and services bought
wit <sic> the vehicle."

Geez, they can't even get their spelling on their web site right!
Ironically though, a colleague at work bought a Saturn at that dealer
and got a much better deal than at the one in a neighboring city,
because the dealer negotiated a price low enough to far offset the
junk fee (as in your case the dealer grossly inflated the value of the
trade-in to save the deal). My colleague paid $1000 less than the
Saturn dealer in the next city over wanted for the identical vehicle,
even including the junk fee. But many people actually believe the "no
haggling" story that the dealers tell them, and don't even try to
negotiate the price, let alone the junk fees.

Re: What we learned from the Saturn Vue purchase

RepublicansDestroyAmerica@gmail,com wrote:

> Watch out for dealers that add junk fees like "closing fees" of $199
> (a relative ran into this in South Carolina, and wen to another dealer
> that didn't have this nonsense). Why don't they just call it
> "additional dealer markup" since that's what its (because Saturn won't
> let them because of the myth of MSRP). They even mention this fee on
> their web site (" http :// www .saturnofflorence,com /"):
>
> "This dealership charges a closing fee of $199.00, which is allowed by
> SC Code Section 37-2-307. It is a charge that is permitted by law but
> not required by law. The full cash price charged at any dealership
> depends on many factors, including all products and services bought
> wit <sic> the vehicle."

I looked at that section of the South Carolina code. It's not closing
costs for a loan that it refers to,

"SECTION 37-2-307. Notice of closing fees on motor vehicle sales
contract; registration fees.

Every motor vehicle dealer charging closing fees on a motor vehicle
sales contract shall pay a one-time registration fee of ten dollars
during each state fiscal year to the Department of Consumer Affairs. The
closing fee must be included in the advertised price of the motor
vehicle, disclosed on the sales contract, and displayed in a conspicuous
location in the motor vehicle dealership."

It's a sleazy way of adding additional dealer mark-up to the vehicle
price, that especially benefits Saturn dealers because they aren't
allowed by Saturn to add additional dealer mark-up. I'd stay away from
this dealer just on principle, especially because the fee is so high. If
it was $30 or $40 it wouldn't be worth arguing about, but $199 is
outrageous, that's another 1% on a 19,900 car.

Re: What we learned from the Saturn Vue purchase

scharf.steven@geemail,com & RepublicansDestroyAmerica@gmail,com

Why are you replying to yourself.

STOP TROLLING STEVEN

<quote>It's a sleazy way of adding additional dealer mark-up to the vehicle
price, that especially benefits Saturn dealers because they aren't
allowed by Saturn to add additional dealer mark-up.I'd stay away from
this dealer just on principle, especially because the fee is so
high.</quote>

NO, it's called "disclosure". Most dealerships hit you with some kind of
closing fee or doc fee and will hide it when you get into the finance
office. This place simply posted it on the home page - right up front for
all to see. Again, most places won't even disclose that they have this fee
and will add it in without your knowledge. This is not the only dealership
that has this on their website, btw, nor is it the only dealership that
charges some kind of closing fee. If you don't believe that, then go shop
Chevy and see what happens. But that's not the real reason you are posting
these nasties and then replying back to yourself, is it?

Speaking of "principal" Please stop trolling, StevenDestroysSaturn@jerk,com .

--
marx404