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1997 Saturn - 2 issues
1997 Saturn - 2 issues
Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
master cylinder or other components cause this?
2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
master cylinder or other components cause this?
2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
The good folks here will give you far better detailed advice about
this car than I can ... but my first question is how much money ?
An 11-12 year old Saturn isn't worth all-that-much - but one with
problems ... maybe minor ; maybe not...
A close inspection by a good mechanic will give you some idea of the
necessary repair costs - to get it on the road.
If you have to pay a garage to do all the repairs
( $ 100 /hour ) plus parts ..
.. sometimes it's better to spend a little more up-front.
The fixer-uppers can be great for the driveway mechanics -
who know the auto-wrecker - and his kids names & birthdays ..
Good luck.
John T
>Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
>good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
>seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
>taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
>
>1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
>since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
>have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
>master cylinder or other components cause this?
>
>2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
>to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
>said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
>mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>
>It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
>drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
The good folks here will give you far better detailed advice about
this car than I can ... but my first question is how much money ?
An 11-12 year old Saturn isn't worth all-that-much - but one with
problems ... maybe minor ; maybe not...
A close inspection by a good mechanic will give you some idea of the
necessary repair costs - to get it on the road.
If you have to pay a garage to do all the repairs
( $ 100 /hour ) plus parts ..
.. sometimes it's better to spend a little more up-front.
The fixer-uppers can be great for the driveway mechanics -
who know the auto-wrecker - and his kids names & birthdays ..
Good luck.
John T
>Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
>good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
>seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
>taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
>
>1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
>since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
>have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
>master cylinder or other components cause this?
>
>2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
>to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
>said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
>mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>
>It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
>drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
WendyC88 wrote:
> Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
> good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
> seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
> taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
>
> 1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
> since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
> have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
> master cylinder or other components cause this?
>
> 2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
> to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
> said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
> mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>
> It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
> drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
>
Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking. You can buy
replacement rotors at a NAPA or like store for about 50 bux for the
pair, but you have to install them yourself.
The SES light means that there is something amiss with the emissions
control system. It could be as simple as a loose gas cap or as complex
as a bad computer (PCM). Take it to an AutoZone and they will scan it
for free. Many other stores likely offer the same service in the hope
of selling you the parts that the scan reveals are the problem.
If you are taking it to a mechanic anyway, he will scan it, but will
likely charge you 40 to 75 bux for the scan.
I've been pretty happy with my 97 SL2 - almost 11 years old and it has
almost 200,000 miles, but still goes strong.
JimR
WendyC88 wrote:
> Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
> good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
> seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
> taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.
>
> 1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
> since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
> have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
> master cylinder or other components cause this?
>
> 2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
> to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
> said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
> mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>
> It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
> drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
>
Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking. You can buy
replacement rotors at a NAPA or like store for about 50 bux for the
pair, but you have to install them yourself.
The SES light means that there is something amiss with the emissions
control system. It could be as simple as a loose gas cap or as complex
as a bad computer (PCM). Take it to an AutoZone and they will scan it
for free. Many other stores likely offer the same service in the hope
of selling you the parts that the scan reveals are the problem.
If you are taking it to a mechanic anyway, he will scan it, but will
likely charge you 40 to 75 bux for the scan.
I've been pretty happy with my 97 SL2 - almost 11 years old and it has
almost 200,000 miles, but still goes strong.
JimR
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor, and
it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough of a
variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake pedal.
I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on this
behavior here: * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at * w w w .evilplastic . com
"JimR" <kd1yv6@notmyemail . com > wrote in message
news:17joj5-j6f.ln1@oneyv.dyndns.org...
> WendyC88 wrote:
>> Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be
>> a good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
>> seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment.
>> Before taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some
>> guidance here.
>>
>> 1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states
>> that since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the
>> rotors have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or
>> could the master cylinder or other components cause this?
>>
>> 2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it
>> means to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same
>> thing? He said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine,
>> that his mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>>
>> It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
>> drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking. You can buy
> replacement rotors at a NAPA or like store for about 50 bux for the pair,
> but you have to install them yourself.
>
> The SES light means that there is something amiss with the emissions
> control system. It could be as simple as a loose gas cap or as complex as
> a bad computer (PCM). Take it to an AutoZone and they will scan it for
> free. Many other stores likely offer the same service in the hope of
> selling you the parts that the scan reveals are the problem.
>
> If you are taking it to a mechanic anyway, he will scan it, but will
> likely charge you 40 to 75 bux for the scan.
>
> I've been pretty happy with my 97 SL2 - almost 11 years old and it has
> almost 200,000 miles, but still goes strong.
>
> JimR
> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor, and
it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough of a
variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake pedal.
I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on this
behavior here: * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at * w w w .evilplastic . com
"JimR" <kd1yv6@notmyemail . com > wrote in message
news:17joj5-j6f.ln1@oneyv.dyndns.org...
> WendyC88 wrote:
>> Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be
>> a good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
>> seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment.
>> Before taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some
>> guidance here.
>>
>> 1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states
>> that since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the
>> rotors have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or
>> could the master cylinder or other components cause this?
>>
>> 2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it
>> means to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same
>> thing? He said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine,
>> that his mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.
>>
>> It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
>> drives well. Thanks fo any advice!
>
> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking. You can buy
> replacement rotors at a NAPA or like store for about 50 bux for the pair,
> but you have to install them yourself.
>
> The SES light means that there is something amiss with the emissions
> control system. It could be as simple as a loose gas cap or as complex as
> a bad computer (PCM). Take it to an AutoZone and they will scan it for
> free. Many other stores likely offer the same service in the hope of
> selling you the parts that the scan reveals are the problem.
>
> If you are taking it to a mechanic anyway, he will scan it, but will
> likely charge you 40 to 75 bux for the scan.
>
> I've been pretty happy with my 97 SL2 - almost 11 years old and it has
> almost 200,000 miles, but still goes strong.
>
> JimR
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
"Lane" <lane@NOSPAMevilplastic . com > wrote in message
news:Phjak.53$Dg2.18@newsfe05.lga...
>> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
>> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
>
> Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
> much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
> leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor,
> and it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough
> of a variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake
> pedal. I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on
> this behavior here:
> * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
>
> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
> ---
> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at
> * w w w .evilplastic . com
>
great link, thanks
"Lane" <lane@NOSPAMevilplastic . com > wrote in message
news:Phjak.53$Dg2.18@newsfe05.lga...
>> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
>> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
>
> Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
> much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
> leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor,
> and it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough
> of a variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake
> pedal. I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on
> this behavior here:
> * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
>
> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
> ---
> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at
> * w w w .evilplastic . com
>
great link, thanks
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
"Private" <please@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:g4chqn$iru$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Lane" <lane@NOSPAMevilplastic . com > wrote in message
> news:Phjak.53$Dg2.18@newsfe05.lga...
>>> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
>>> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
>>
>> Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
>> much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
>> leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor,
>> and it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough
>> of a variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake
>> pedal. I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on
>> this behavior here:
>> * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
>>
>> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
>> ---
>> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at
>> * w w w .evilplastic . com
>>
>
> great link, thanks
>
Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
"Private" <please@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:g4chqn$iru$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Lane" <lane@NOSPAMevilplastic . com > wrote in message
> news:Phjak.53$Dg2.18@newsfe05.lga...
>>> Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
>>> do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking.
>>
>> Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
>> much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
>> leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor,
>> and it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough
>> of a variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake
>> pedal. I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on
>> this behavior here:
>> * w w w .stoptech . com /tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
>>
>> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic . com ]
>> ---
>> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at
>> * w w w .evilplastic . com
>>
>
> great link, thanks
>
Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
In article <F6SdndMxPOtiMPfVnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@giganews . com >, "WendyC88" <ddlld23REMOVE@XXcsiREMOVE . com > wrote:
>Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt
??
S-series Saturns don't have timing belts. They use timing chains. And a chain
should last a lot longer than 140K miles -- seller may be BSing you.
>and water
>pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
In article <F6SdndMxPOtiMPfVnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@giganews . com >, "WendyC88" <ddlld23REMOVE@XXcsiREMOVE . com > wrote:
>Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt
??
S-series Saturns don't have timing belts. They use timing chains. And a chain
should last a lot longer than 140K miles -- seller may be BSing you.
>and water
>pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac . com > wrote in message
news:SgAak.8744$89.8735@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc . com ...
> In article <F6SdndMxPOtiMPfVnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@giganews . com >, "WendyC88"
> <ddlld23REMOVE@XXcsiREMOVE . com > wrote:
>
>>Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt
>
> ??
>
> S-series Saturns don't have timing belts. They use timing chains. And a
> chain
> should last a lot longer than 140K miles -- seller may be BSing you.
>
>>and water
>>pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
I asked if a receipt was available and was told it was. $1700 for the chain
replacement and other work last year. It is a very young army couple, car
needs complete redo up front with brakes, I don't think they can afford it
and would rather have the cash. Taking it to a shop for a once over.
"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac . com > wrote in message
news:SgAak.8744$89.8735@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc . com ...
> In article <F6SdndMxPOtiMPfVnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@giganews . com >, "WendyC88"
> <ddlld23REMOVE@XXcsiREMOVE . com > wrote:
>
>>Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt
>
> ??
>
> S-series Saturns don't have timing belts. They use timing chains. And a
> chain
> should last a lot longer than 140K miles -- seller may be BSing you.
>
>>and water
>>pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
I asked if a receipt was available and was told it was. $1700 for the chain
replacement and other work last year. It is a very young army couple, car
needs complete redo up front with brakes, I don't think they can afford it
and would rather have the cash. Taking it to a shop for a once over.
Reply from: -- messaggio eliminato --
Date: 02 Jul 2008, 05:32
-- deleted messages --
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
news:cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com ...
>
> Chain not belt,
Correct
> but it's good that they changed it since the chain should be changed a lot
> sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend 75K mile timing chain
> replacements on Saturns as preventative maintenance, since there have been
> a lot of issues with the timing chains.
IMHO, this is completely wrong,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)
IMHO, The timing chain is NOT a preventative maintenance item,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)
it should last the life of the engine or at least until other major repair
is required.
If the head needs to be removed for repair of valves or rings then
replacement of the timing chain (and tensioner service or replacement) would
be advisable.
just my .02, YMMV.
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
news:cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com ...
>
> Chain not belt,
Correct
> but it's good that they changed it since the chain should be changed a lot
> sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend 75K mile timing chain
> replacements on Saturns as preventative maintenance, since there have been
> a lot of issues with the timing chains.
IMHO, this is completely wrong,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)
IMHO, The timing chain is NOT a preventative maintenance item,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)
it should last the life of the engine or at least until other major repair
is required.
If the head needs to be removed for repair of valves or rings then
replacement of the timing chain (and tensioner service or replacement) would
be advisable.
just my .02, YMMV.
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
I agree. Timing chain should last if oil was properly serviced at regular
intervals. On the Check Engine light, there are two known and common issues
that may cause this with Saturn SLs and they are the Coolant Temperature
Sensor (CTS) and the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve. Both are fairly
simple fixes if either is the cause after getting the code scanned at
AutoZone for free.
Bob
"Private" <please@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:g4f2c2$9ur$1@aioe.org...
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
> news:cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com ...
>>
>> Chain not belt,
>
> Correct
>
>> but it's good that they changed it since the chain should be changed a
>> lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend 75K mile timing
>> chain replacements on Saturns as preventative maintenance, since there
>> have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
>
> IMHO, this is completely wrong,
> (provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper
> intervals.)
>
> IMHO, The timing chain is NOT a preventative maintenance item,
> (provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper
> intervals.)
> it should last the life of the engine or at least until other major repair
> is required.
> If the head needs to be removed for repair of valves or rings then
> replacement of the timing chain (and tensioner service or replacement)
> would be advisable.
>
> just my .02, YMMV.
>
I agree. Timing chain should last if oil was properly serviced at regular
intervals. On the Check Engine light, there are two known and common issues
that may cause this with Saturn SLs and they are the Coolant Temperature
Sensor (CTS) and the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve. Both are fairly
simple fixes if either is the cause after getting the code scanned at
AutoZone for free.
Bob
"Private" <please@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:g4f2c2$9ur$1@aioe.org...
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
> news:cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com ...
>>
>> Chain not belt,
>
> Correct
>
>> but it's good that they changed it since the chain should be changed a
>> lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend 75K mile timing
>> chain replacements on Saturns as preventative maintenance, since there
>> have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
>
> IMHO, this is completely wrong,
> (provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper
> intervals.)
>
> IMHO, The timing chain is NOT a preventative maintenance item,
> (provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper
> intervals.)
> it should last the life of the engine or at least until other major repair
> is required.
> If the head needs to be removed for repair of valves or rings then
> replacement of the timing chain (and tensioner service or replacement)
> would be advisable.
>
> just my .02, YMMV.
>
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
In article <cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com >, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote:
>WendyC88 wrote:
>
>> Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
>> pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
>
>Chain not belt, but it's good that they changed it since the chain
>should be changed a lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend
>75K mile timing chain replacements on Saturns as preventative
>maintenance, since there have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
Say whaaat? Timing *belts* *are* preventive-maintenance items. Timing *chains*
should last the life of the [rest of the] engine.
In article <cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com >, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote:
>WendyC88 wrote:
>
>> Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
>> pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
>
>Chain not belt, but it's good that they changed it since the chain
>should be changed a lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend
>75K mile timing chain replacements on Saturns as preventative
>maintenance, since there have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
Say whaaat? Timing *belts* *are* preventive-maintenance items. Timing *chains*
should last the life of the [rest of the] engine.
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com >, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote:
>> WendyC88 wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
>>> pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
>> Chain not belt, but it's good that they changed it since the chain
>> should be changed a lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend
>> 75K mile timing chain replacements on Saturns as preventative
>> maintenance, since there have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
>
> Say whaaat? Timing *belts* *are* preventive-maintenance items. Timing *chains*
> should last the life of the [rest of the] engine.
It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a
mechanic that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
" * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
for more information.
That said, this is all moot for the current situation since the chain
was already changed. $1500 is a pretty good deal for this car if nothing
else is seriously wrong with it.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <cFCak.714$zv7.99@flpi143.ffdc.sbc . com >, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote:
>> WendyC88 wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
>>> pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.
>> Chain not belt, but it's good that they changed it since the chain
>> should be changed a lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend
>> 75K mile timing chain replacements on Saturns as preventative
>> maintenance, since there have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.
>
> Say whaaat? Timing *belts* *are* preventive-maintenance items. Timing *chains*
> should last the life of the [rest of the] engine.
It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a
mechanic that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
" * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
for more information.
That said, this is all moot for the current situation since the chain
was already changed. $1500 is a pretty good deal for this car if nothing
else is seriously wrong with it.
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
news:KeTak.13930$mh5.1275@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc . com ...
snip
> It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
> shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
> Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
> beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a mechanic
> that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
> " * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
> for more information.
snip
IMHO
For those of you who are not regular readers of this NG it is worth noting
that Steve Scharf (SMS) is the major proponent of the Saturn timing chain
needs to be changed theory. For a more complete research into this issue I
suggest reading
* groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/a1287e3fa7a9c78/9c8657e6a0fc0675
or do a search in Google Groups for other and more recent threads.
As in all such things there is no definitive correct answer and nobody can
accurately predict the service life of an individual mechanical component.
This is especially true of preowned vehicles. Most reports of failures are
anecdotal and can be considered anomalies.
Mechanical service life is a bit of a crap shoot that is influenced by
maintenance and operating conditions and driving style. Most people lump
the SOHC and the DOHC engines together when reporting service issues such as
oil consumption and valve train wear. Engine wear increases are not linear
with speed and are normally considered to increase at the square of the
engine speed. In other words wear will be 4 times higher @ 6000rpm than at
3000rpm. DOHC engines are much more likely to be driven in a 'spirited'
manner and IMHO are much more likely to suffer issues of oil consumption and
valve train wear as well as reduced tire and brake life. For this reason
(and lower fuel economy) I would never purchase a used DOHC.
Beyond original warranty, there are no guaranties of service life and engine
lifetime management becomes a balance between doing nothing and perhaps
incurring a costly failure and overdoing preventative maintenance which
results in added expense from fixing stuff that aint broke, as well as
issues caused by the quality of the repair work. Repair work seldom has the
quality control of the original factory. Regular maintenance and oil
changes are the cheapest and most cost effective way to lengthen service
life especially when combined with proper warm up in cold weather and the
avoidance of 'spirited' high rpm operation and short trips.
As these cars age the benefits of excessive preventative repair become
smaller as does the cost of any needed repair due to catastrophic failure.
The economics of engine management is that a catastrophic failure is less of
a loss on an engine nearing the end of its service life than if it occurs
near the start. If you really want to maximize service life some would
advocate a half life rebuild including new rings bearings and valve guides,
and a new timing chain would certainly be appropriate at that time. However
most of us know that such a rebuild does not add any resale value to the car
and we prefer to continue use until some problem occurs at which time we can
make the repair or replace decision at that time.
As this model ages they are now quite common in the scrap yards and we have
more options for economical repair. A good used engine can now be purchased
for very little more than the cost of replacing a timing chain. A complete
running car with good tires and battery will only be a little more (or
less). I just purchased a very good running car with near new tires and
battery (and a new stereo/CD player )for $400. It had a little easily
repairable body damage and drives very well, I have repaired the damage but
this would have been an excellent donor car to use for spare parts. These
cars are easy to work on and a little DIY mechanical can save a LOT of
money.
Good luck, YMMV
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
news:KeTak.13930$mh5.1275@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc . com ...
snip
> It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
> shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
> Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
> beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a mechanic
> that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
> " * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
> for more information.
snip
IMHO
For those of you who are not regular readers of this NG it is worth noting
that Steve Scharf (SMS) is the major proponent of the Saturn timing chain
needs to be changed theory. For a more complete research into this issue I
suggest reading
* groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/a1287e3fa7a9c78/9c8657e6a0fc0675
or do a search in Google Groups for other and more recent threads.
As in all such things there is no definitive correct answer and nobody can
accurately predict the service life of an individual mechanical component.
This is especially true of preowned vehicles. Most reports of failures are
anecdotal and can be considered anomalies.
Mechanical service life is a bit of a crap shoot that is influenced by
maintenance and operating conditions and driving style. Most people lump
the SOHC and the DOHC engines together when reporting service issues such as
oil consumption and valve train wear. Engine wear increases are not linear
with speed and are normally considered to increase at the square of the
engine speed. In other words wear will be 4 times higher @ 6000rpm than at
3000rpm. DOHC engines are much more likely to be driven in a 'spirited'
manner and IMHO are much more likely to suffer issues of oil consumption and
valve train wear as well as reduced tire and brake life. For this reason
(and lower fuel economy) I would never purchase a used DOHC.
Beyond original warranty, there are no guaranties of service life and engine
lifetime management becomes a balance between doing nothing and perhaps
incurring a costly failure and overdoing preventative maintenance which
results in added expense from fixing stuff that aint broke, as well as
issues caused by the quality of the repair work. Repair work seldom has the
quality control of the original factory. Regular maintenance and oil
changes are the cheapest and most cost effective way to lengthen service
life especially when combined with proper warm up in cold weather and the
avoidance of 'spirited' high rpm operation and short trips.
As these cars age the benefits of excessive preventative repair become
smaller as does the cost of any needed repair due to catastrophic failure.
The economics of engine management is that a catastrophic failure is less of
a loss on an engine nearing the end of its service life than if it occurs
near the start. If you really want to maximize service life some would
advocate a half life rebuild including new rings bearings and valve guides,
and a new timing chain would certainly be appropriate at that time. However
most of us know that such a rebuild does not add any resale value to the car
and we prefer to continue use until some problem occurs at which time we can
make the repair or replace decision at that time.
As this model ages they are now quite common in the scrap yards and we have
more options for economical repair. A good used engine can now be purchased
for very little more than the cost of replacing a timing chain. A complete
running car with good tires and battery will only be a little more (or
less). I just purchased a very good running car with near new tires and
battery (and a new stereo/CD player )for $400. It had a little easily
repairable body damage and drives very well, I have repaired the damage but
this would have been an excellent donor car to use for spare parts. These
cars are easy to work on and a little DIY mechanical can save a LOT of
money.
Good luck, YMMV
Re: 1997 Saturn - 2 issues
Private wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
> news:KeTak.13930$mh5.1275@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc . com ...
> snip
>> It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
>> shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
>> Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
>> beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a mechanic
>> that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
>> " * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
>> for more information.
> snip
>
> IMHO
> For those of you who are not regular readers of this NG it is worth noting
> that Steve Scharf (SMS) is the major proponent of the Saturn timing chain
> needs to be changed theory.
Yes, because I don't have any blinders on. There seems to be a lot of
people that mistakenly think that because a chain is steel that it
somehow never needs replacement. This is untrue, steel chains wear out
in all sorts of applications, not just timing chains.
Again read
" * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b".
Let's move beyond personal attacks and concentrate on reality.
Private wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail . com > wrote in message
> news:KeTak.13930$mh5.1275@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc . com ...
> snip
>> It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
>> shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
>> Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
>> beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a mechanic
>> that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
>> " * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
>> for more information.
> snip
>
> IMHO
> For those of you who are not regular readers of this NG it is worth noting
> that Steve Scharf (SMS) is the major proponent of the Saturn timing chain
> needs to be changed theory.
Yes, because I don't have any blinders on. There seems to be a lot of
people that mistakenly think that because a chain is steel that it
somehow never needs replacement. This is untrue, steel chains wear out
in all sorts of applications, not just timing chains.
Again read
" * groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b".
Let's move beyond personal attacks and concentrate on reality.
