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China Travel Discussion List
Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also
be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
Now more than ten years old and with several hundred members, the list
provides a forum for the discussion of travel in China, and across
China's borders to the nearest major centres, such as Almaty, Bishkek,
Islamabad, Kathmandu, Hanoi, and Ulaan Baatar.
The Oriental-List accepts practical travel queries; discussions of the
merits of individual destinations or routes; accounts of individual
experiences; historical and cultural material relevant to China travel;
reviews and notifications of other China travel resources (newsgroups,
publications, websites, public lectures, etc); political, legal, and
ethical matters to do with travel in China, and China travel news items.
This list is moderated to keep it free from off-topic material, personal
attacks, abuse, foul language, cross-postings, spam, or other trivia. It
is intended to be supplementary to other sources, and does not accept
queries easily answered by looking in a guide book, those in chat-room
style, or overly vague.
The answer to almost any China travel question can vary from month to
month, and so the list maintains no archive, and regards published
sources such as guide books as its FAQ file, dealing mainly in matters
beyond the scope of such books.
The Oriental-List is run entirely pro bono, carries no advertising, the
list of members is not made available to any individual or third party
organisation, and email addresses are stripped from all headers to
prevent their exploitation.
Members include those planning their first trips to China, experienced
China travellers, China-based journalists and foreign residents, as well
as the authors of several books on travel in China.
To receive further guidelines and to subscribe, send a blank email to:
subscribe-oriental-list [at] datasinica [.] com
or visit
http://www.datasinica.com
be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
Now more than ten years old and with several hundred members, the list
provides a forum for the discussion of travel in China, and across
China's borders to the nearest major centres, such as Almaty, Bishkek,
Islamabad, Kathmandu, Hanoi, and Ulaan Baatar.
The Oriental-List accepts practical travel queries; discussions of the
merits of individual destinations or routes; accounts of individual
experiences; historical and cultural material relevant to China travel;
reviews and notifications of other China travel resources (newsgroups,
publications, websites, public lectures, etc); political, legal, and
ethical matters to do with travel in China, and China travel news items.
This list is moderated to keep it free from off-topic material, personal
attacks, abuse, foul language, cross-postings, spam, or other trivia. It
is intended to be supplementary to other sources, and does not accept
queries easily answered by looking in a guide book, those in chat-room
style, or overly vague.
The answer to almost any China travel question can vary from month to
month, and so the list maintains no archive, and regards published
sources such as guide books as its FAQ file, dealing mainly in matters
beyond the scope of such books.
The Oriental-List is run entirely pro bono, carries no advertising, the
list of members is not made available to any individual or third party
organisation, and email addresses are stripped from all headers to
prevent their exploitation.
Members include those planning their first trips to China, experienced
China travellers, China-based journalists and foreign residents, as well
as the authors of several books on travel in China.
To receive further guidelines and to subscribe, send a blank email to:
subscribe-oriental-list [at] datasinica [.] com
or visit
http://www.datasinica.com
"Peter Neville-Hadley" <look@the.address.below> kirjoitti
viestissä:1iex0qj.13psqchhhvve2N%look@the.address.below...
> Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also
> be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
>
I doubt that.´The turd has compromised himself by this persistent spamming.
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:58:04 +0300,
=?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos?= <kurkku@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:
>
>"Peter Neville-Hadley" <look@the.address.below> kirjoitti
>viestissä:1iex0qj.13psqchhhvve2N%look@the.address.below...
>> Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also
>> be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
>>
>I doubt that.´The turd has compromised himself by this persistent spamming.
>
Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: abuse@shaw.ca,
like I did.
Mort
=?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos?= <kurkku@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:
>
>"Peter Neville-Hadley" <look@the.address.below> kirjoitti
>viestissä:1iex0qj.13psqchhhvve2N%look@the.address.below...
>> Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also
>> be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
>>
>I doubt that.´The turd has compromised himself by this persistent spamming.
>
Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: abuse@shaw.ca,
like I did.
Mort
On Apr 6, 7:22 am, Bl...@Runner.com (Deckard) wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:58:04 +0300,
>
> =?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos3D <kur...@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:=
>
> >"Peter Neville-Hadley" <l...@the.address.below> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:1iex0qj.13psqchhhvve2N%l...@the.address.below...
> >> Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also=
> >> be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
>
> >I doubt that.´The turd has compromised himself by this persistent spamm=
ing.
>
> Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: ab...@shaw.ca,
> like I did.
>
> Mort
******Why in the world would you do that Morticia??? The mans only
trying to make a living.
Markkkkkkkkie on the other hand is an ignorant racist and a pig and
deserves what he gets.
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:58:04 +0300,
>
> =?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos3D <kur...@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:=
>
> >"Peter Neville-Hadley" <l...@the.address.below> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:1iex0qj.13psqchhhvve2N%l...@the.address.below...
> >> Readers of rec.travel.asia with a particular interest in China may also=
> >> be interested in THE ORIENTAL-LIST.
>
> >I doubt that.´The turd has compromised himself by this persistent spamm=
ing.
>
> Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: ab...@shaw.ca,
> like I did.
>
> Mort
******Why in the world would you do that Morticia??? The mans only
trying to make a living.
Markkkkkkkkie on the other hand is an ignorant racist and a pig and
deserves what he gets.
Deckard <Blade@Runner.com> wrote:
> Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: abuse@shaw.ca,
> like I did.
For the sake of other readers of this forum I would heartily second that
approach, although since these messages are not spam it will simply be a
waste of time. I
trust, too, that such an approach is being taken with those messages
that swamp the forum (as opposed to appearing less than once a week and
with the same subject line) advertising sex services, travel agencies,
and commercial websites of various kinds with no relevance to travel in
Asia whatsoever, and that actually are spam. Perhaps a note to the ISP
of those who abuse the group with repetitive foul-mouthed one-liners
might also be in order?
Just to be clear:
rec.travel.asia is for the discussion of everything to do with travel in
Asia. The Oriental-List is to do with travel in Asia, too, and so
mentioning it here is appropriate.
Spam is the uninvited promotion of commercial activity. Unlike the very
many travel-related websites which advertise themselves here to boost
visits and gain sales for travel companies and other advertisers, The
Oriental-List carries no advertising whatsoever, and commercial postings
and spam are not only forbidden, but actively blocked on the list.
Some small latitude is given to the authors of books on China to say
something about the launch of new titles, and everyone is allowed to
mention their businesses briefly in a sig file but only on condition
that the remainder of their posting is generally helpful, and not
self-promotional. Those who make self-promotional postings are simply
thrown off (along with those who make foul-mouthed or off-topic
postings). Their messages never get through.
Speaking of guide books alone, in recent times the authors, editors,
updaters, or contributors to China-related guides by Moon, Lonely
Planet, Frommer's, Insight, Cadogan, Odyssey, Bradt, Rough Guides, and
Dorling Kindersley Eyewitness to all of parts of China have all been
members of the list. The membership also includes freelance and staff
journalists for a number of newspapers and magazines across Asia, North
America, and Europe, including several based in China itself. They don't
all post, but when they do their answers to queries tend to be detailed
and well-informed, as you might expect. It would hardly be surprising if
readers of rec.travel.asia with an interest in China found such a
resource useful, and found attempts to prevent access to it rather the
opposite.
No one makes any income of any kind from the list, there are no fees or
charges or paid adverts of any kind, and mentions of it are not spam.
Although it is increasingly popular and has been in existence for nearly
11 years (and in all of them mentioned here) were it to disappear
tomorrow it really wouldn't matter. It was started because at the time
there were no other places specifically devoted to on-topic discussion
of China travel, and free of the background noise, smart-alec and
foul-mouthed replies that characterise many postings here and tend to
drown out sane discussion and increasingly to drive potential
contributors away. But there are many other choices today, although all
of those are commercial, so perhaps it would be inappropriate to mention
them here.
Each reminder of the list's existence on rec.trav is carefully posted
under the same heading so that frequent users of rec.travel.asia
already familiar with its contents can ignore it. The frequency is never
more than once a week, and throughout the year is far less on average.
Each reminder does, however, bring in new members, which would seem to
indicate that readers of rec.travel.asia do indeed find it relevant and
of interest, and indeed many of those who post here are also members of
The Oriental-List, as they probably are of other assorted travel
discussion websites, too.
This isn't spam, and calling it spam won't make it so. Reminders of The
Oriental-List's existence will continue to appear here for the benefit
of those joining rec.travel.asia.
Peter N-H
> Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: abuse@shaw.ca,
> like I did.
For the sake of other readers of this forum I would heartily second that
approach, although since these messages are not spam it will simply be a
waste of time. I
trust, too, that such an approach is being taken with those messages
that swamp the forum (as opposed to appearing less than once a week and
with the same subject line) advertising sex services, travel agencies,
and commercial websites of various kinds with no relevance to travel in
Asia whatsoever, and that actually are spam. Perhaps a note to the ISP
of those who abuse the group with repetitive foul-mouthed one-liners
might also be in order?
Just to be clear:
rec.travel.asia is for the discussion of everything to do with travel in
Asia. The Oriental-List is to do with travel in Asia, too, and so
mentioning it here is appropriate.
Spam is the uninvited promotion of commercial activity. Unlike the very
many travel-related websites which advertise themselves here to boost
visits and gain sales for travel companies and other advertisers, The
Oriental-List carries no advertising whatsoever, and commercial postings
and spam are not only forbidden, but actively blocked on the list.
Some small latitude is given to the authors of books on China to say
something about the launch of new titles, and everyone is allowed to
mention their businesses briefly in a sig file but only on condition
that the remainder of their posting is generally helpful, and not
self-promotional. Those who make self-promotional postings are simply
thrown off (along with those who make foul-mouthed or off-topic
postings). Their messages never get through.
Speaking of guide books alone, in recent times the authors, editors,
updaters, or contributors to China-related guides by Moon, Lonely
Planet, Frommer's, Insight, Cadogan, Odyssey, Bradt, Rough Guides, and
Dorling Kindersley Eyewitness to all of parts of China have all been
members of the list. The membership also includes freelance and staff
journalists for a number of newspapers and magazines across Asia, North
America, and Europe, including several based in China itself. They don't
all post, but when they do their answers to queries tend to be detailed
and well-informed, as you might expect. It would hardly be surprising if
readers of rec.travel.asia with an interest in China found such a
resource useful, and found attempts to prevent access to it rather the
opposite.
No one makes any income of any kind from the list, there are no fees or
charges or paid adverts of any kind, and mentions of it are not spam.
Although it is increasingly popular and has been in existence for nearly
11 years (and in all of them mentioned here) were it to disappear
tomorrow it really wouldn't matter. It was started because at the time
there were no other places specifically devoted to on-topic discussion
of China travel, and free of the background noise, smart-alec and
foul-mouthed replies that characterise many postings here and tend to
drown out sane discussion and increasingly to drive potential
contributors away. But there are many other choices today, although all
of those are commercial, so perhaps it would be inappropriate to mention
them here.
Each reminder of the list's existence on rec.trav is carefully posted
under the same heading so that frequent users of rec.travel.asia
already familiar with its contents can ignore it. The frequency is never
more than once a week, and throughout the year is far less on average.
Each reminder does, however, bring in new members, which would seem to
indicate that readers of rec.travel.asia do indeed find it relevant and
of interest, and indeed many of those who post here are also members of
The Oriental-List, as they probably are of other assorted travel
discussion websites, too.
This isn't spam, and calling it spam won't make it so. Reminders of The
Oriental-List's existence will continue to appear here for the benefit
of those joining rec.travel.asia.
Peter N-H
"Peter Neville-Hadley" <look@the.address.below> kirjoitti
viestissä:1iez8f2.nlq4k8146ynisN%look@the.address.below...
> Deckard <Blade@Runner.com> wrote:
>
>> Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
>> totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: abuse@shaw.ca,
>> like I did.
>
> For the sake of other readers of this forum I would heartily second that
> approach, although since these messages are not spam it will simply be a
> waste of time. I
>
They are spam alright. All direct efforts to promote sales of whatever items
in the usenet are definitely spamming. Therefore we just cross our fingers
and hope that some day the little turd will relocate the book store in some
place else. It is true that Canadian ISPs are notorious in allowing usenet
abuse - spam and nonsense of other sort - in the name of "freedom of
speech".
On Apr 7, 9:17 am, Markku Grönroos <kur...@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:
> They are spam alright. All direct efforts to promote sales of whatever ite=
ms
> in the usenet are definitely spamming. Therefore we just cross our fingers=
> and hope that some day the little turd will relocate the book store in som=
e
> place else. It is true that Canadian ISPs are notorious in allowing usenet=
> abuse - spam and nonsense of other sort - in the name of "freedom of
> speech".
******And you Markkkkkkkie are a boring, whinging racist pig.
Have a nice day.
> They are spam alright. All direct efforts to promote sales of whatever ite=
ms
> in the usenet are definitely spamming. Therefore we just cross our fingers=
> and hope that some day the little turd will relocate the book store in som=
e
> place else. It is true that Canadian ISPs are notorious in allowing usenet=
> abuse - spam and nonsense of other sort - in the name of "freedom of
> speech".
******And you Markkkkkkkie are a boring, whinging racist pig.
Have a nice day.
On Apr 6, 1:44 pm, l...@the.address.below (Peter Neville-Hadley)
wrote:
> Deckard <Bl...@Runner.com> wrote:
> > Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> > totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: ab...@shaw.ca,
> > like I did.
>
> For the sake of other readers of this forum I would heartily second that
> approach, although since these messages are not spam it will simply be a
> waste of time. I
>
> trust, too, that such an approach is being taken with those messages
> that swamp the forum (as opposed to appearing less than once a week and
> with the same subject line) advertising sex services,travelagencies,
> and commercial websites of various kinds with no relevance totravelin
> Asia whatsoever, and that actually are spam. Perhaps a note to the ISP
> of those who abuse the group with repetitive foul-mouthed one-liners
> might also be in order?
>
> Just to be clear:
>
> rec.travel.asia is for the discussion of everything to do withtravelin
> Asia. The Oriental-List is to do withtravelin Asia, too, and so
> mentioning it here is appropriate.
>
> Spam is the uninvited promotion of commercial activity. Unlike the very
> manytravel-related websites which advertise themselves here to boost
> visits and gain sales fortravelcompanies and other advertisers, The
> Oriental-List carries no advertising whatsoever, and commercial postings
> and spam are not only forbidden, but actively blocked on the list.
>
> Some small latitude is given to the authors of books on China to say
> something about the launch of new titles, and everyone is allowed to
> mention their businesses briefly in a sig file but only on condition
> that the remainder of their posting is generally helpful, and not
> self-promotional. Those who make self-promotional postings are simply
> thrown off (along with those who make foul-mouthed or off-topic
> postings). Their messages never get through.
>
> Speaking of guide books alone, in recent times the authors, editors,
> updaters, or contributors to China-related guides by Moon, Lonely
> Planet, Frommer's, Insight, Cadogan, Odyssey, Bradt, Rough Guides, and
> Dorling Kindersley Eyewitness to all of parts of China have all been
> members of the list. The membership also includes freelance and staff
> journalists for a number of newspapers and magazines across Asia, North
> America, and Europe, including several based in China itself. They don't
> all post, but when they do their answers to queries tend to be detailed
> and well-informed, as you might expect. It would hardly be surprising if
> readers of rec.travel.asia with an interest in China found such a
> resource useful, and found attempts to prevent access to it rather the
> opposite.
>
> No one makes any income of any kind from the list, there are no fees or
> charges or paid adverts of any kind, and mentions of it are not spam.
> Although it is increasingly popular and has been in existence for nearly
> 11 years (and in all of them mentioned here) were it to disappear
> tomorrow it really wouldn't matter. It was started because at the time
> there were no other places specifically devoted to on-topic discussion
> of Chinatravel, and free of the background noise, smart-alec and
> foul-mouthed replies that characterise many postings here and tend to
> drown out sane discussion and increasingly to drive potential
> contributors away. But there are many other choices today, although all
> of those are commercial, so perhaps it would be inappropriate to mention
> them here.
>
> Each reminder of the list's existence on rec.trav is carefully posted
> under the same heading so that frequent users of rec.travel.asia
> already familiar with its contents can ignore it. The frequency is never
> more than once a week, and throughout the year is far less on average.
> Each reminder does, however, bring in new members, which would seem to
> indicate that readers of rec.travel.asia do indeed find it relevant and
> of interest, and indeed many of those who post here are also members of
> The Oriental-List, as they probably are of other assortedtravel
> discussion websites, too.
>
> This isn't spam, and calling it spam won't make it so. Reminders of The
> Oriental-List's existence will continue to appear here for the benefit
> of those joining rec.travel.asia.
>
> Peter N-H
If you are interested in traveling, why don't get paid to do that? See
you can easly travel to China for Olympic's for less than $900.00. 9
Days 8 nights and if you bring your friends, they will only pay about
$1400 and you will make 60% of commission for each booking. Now how
does that sound?
If Travel, than do it the smart way and get paid for it, right?
for more info visit www.altextravel.com
Petr with Altex Travel
wrote:
> Deckard <Bl...@Runner.com> wrote:
> > Instead of posting here repetitive foul-mouthed messages that are
> > totally ineffective, I suggest you send a complaint to: ab...@shaw.ca,
> > like I did.
>
> For the sake of other readers of this forum I would heartily second that
> approach, although since these messages are not spam it will simply be a
> waste of time. I
>
> trust, too, that such an approach is being taken with those messages
> that swamp the forum (as opposed to appearing less than once a week and
> with the same subject line) advertising sex services,travelagencies,
> and commercial websites of various kinds with no relevance totravelin
> Asia whatsoever, and that actually are spam. Perhaps a note to the ISP
> of those who abuse the group with repetitive foul-mouthed one-liners
> might also be in order?
>
> Just to be clear:
>
> rec.travel.asia is for the discussion of everything to do withtravelin
> Asia. The Oriental-List is to do withtravelin Asia, too, and so
> mentioning it here is appropriate.
>
> Spam is the uninvited promotion of commercial activity. Unlike the very
> manytravel-related websites which advertise themselves here to boost
> visits and gain sales fortravelcompanies and other advertisers, The
> Oriental-List carries no advertising whatsoever, and commercial postings
> and spam are not only forbidden, but actively blocked on the list.
>
> Some small latitude is given to the authors of books on China to say
> something about the launch of new titles, and everyone is allowed to
> mention their businesses briefly in a sig file but only on condition
> that the remainder of their posting is generally helpful, and not
> self-promotional. Those who make self-promotional postings are simply
> thrown off (along with those who make foul-mouthed or off-topic
> postings). Their messages never get through.
>
> Speaking of guide books alone, in recent times the authors, editors,
> updaters, or contributors to China-related guides by Moon, Lonely
> Planet, Frommer's, Insight, Cadogan, Odyssey, Bradt, Rough Guides, and
> Dorling Kindersley Eyewitness to all of parts of China have all been
> members of the list. The membership also includes freelance and staff
> journalists for a number of newspapers and magazines across Asia, North
> America, and Europe, including several based in China itself. They don't
> all post, but when they do their answers to queries tend to be detailed
> and well-informed, as you might expect. It would hardly be surprising if
> readers of rec.travel.asia with an interest in China found such a
> resource useful, and found attempts to prevent access to it rather the
> opposite.
>
> No one makes any income of any kind from the list, there are no fees or
> charges or paid adverts of any kind, and mentions of it are not spam.
> Although it is increasingly popular and has been in existence for nearly
> 11 years (and in all of them mentioned here) were it to disappear
> tomorrow it really wouldn't matter. It was started because at the time
> there were no other places specifically devoted to on-topic discussion
> of Chinatravel, and free of the background noise, smart-alec and
> foul-mouthed replies that characterise many postings here and tend to
> drown out sane discussion and increasingly to drive potential
> contributors away. But there are many other choices today, although all
> of those are commercial, so perhaps it would be inappropriate to mention
> them here.
>
> Each reminder of the list's existence on rec.trav is carefully posted
> under the same heading so that frequent users of rec.travel.asia
> already familiar with its contents can ignore it. The frequency is never
> more than once a week, and throughout the year is far less on average.
> Each reminder does, however, bring in new members, which would seem to
> indicate that readers of rec.travel.asia do indeed find it relevant and
> of interest, and indeed many of those who post here are also members of
> The Oriental-List, as they probably are of other assortedtravel
> discussion websites, too.
>
> This isn't spam, and calling it spam won't make it so. Reminders of The
> Oriental-List's existence will continue to appear here for the benefit
> of those joining rec.travel.asia.
>
> Peter N-H
If you are interested in traveling, why don't get paid to do that? See
you can easly travel to China for Olympic's for less than $900.00. 9
Days 8 nights and if you bring your friends, they will only pay about
$1400 and you will make 60% of commission for each booking. Now how
does that sound?
If Travel, than do it the smart way and get paid for it, right?
for more info visit www.altextravel.com
Petr with Altex Travel
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:47:17 -0700 (PDT), Altex Travel
<Altex.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If you are interested in traveling, why don't get paid to do that? See
>you can easly travel to China for Olympic's for less than $900.00. 9
>Days 8 nights and if you bring your friends, they will only pay about
>$1400 and you will make 60% of commission for each booking. Now how
>does that sound?
>If Travel, than do it the smart way and get paid for it, right?
>for more info visit www.altextravel.com
It sounds like a spam scam. That's how it sounds.
<Altex.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If you are interested in traveling, why don't get paid to do that? See
>you can easly travel to China for Olympic's for less than $900.00. 9
>Days 8 nights and if you bring your friends, they will only pay about
>$1400 and you will make 60% of commission for each booking. Now how
>does that sound?
>If Travel, than do it the smart way and get paid for it, right?
>for more info visit www.altextravel.com
It sounds like a spam scam. That's how it sounds.
