Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
Enzo.

* w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=3DJames_Allen&id=3D42407

McLaren's troubles

There is a slight impression of =91drift=92 at McLaren at the moment, like
they have lost their way a little bit.

It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
the set-up =91sweet spot=92 on their car at the moment.

"I think that is partly because they miss Alonso=92s experience, partly
because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
down by the testing restrictions =96 so it=92s up to the race drivers to
find the best set-up on race weekends and it=92s not happening."

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
> James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
> Enzo.
>
> * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=3DJames_Allen&id=3D42407
>
> McLaren's troubles
>
> There is a slight impression of =91drift=92 at McLaren at the moment, like=

> they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> the set-up =91sweet spot=92 on their car at the moment.
>
> "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso=92s experience, partly
> because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> down by the testing restrictions =96 so it=92s up to the race drivers to
> find the best set-up on race weekends and it=92s not happening."

Harsh, but fair.

Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
correct.

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

Kimi Fan wrote:

> On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
> > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name
> > is Enzo.
> >
> > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James Allen&id=42407
> >
> > McLaren's troubles
> >
> > There is a slight impression of ‘drift’ at McLaren at the moment,
> > like they have lost their way a little bit.
> >
> > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > the set-up ‘sweet spot’ on their car at the moment.
> >
> > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso’s experience,
> > partly because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up
> > and partly because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does
> > has been cut down by the testing restrictions – so it’s up to the
> > race drivers to find the best set-up on race weekends and it’s not
> > happening."
>
> Harsh, but fair.
>

Perfectly reasonable.

It's in the boys court to prove him wrong.

--
Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
entirely free! No sh*t!
* tinyurl . com /5y6ls3

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. =A0His son's name is=

> > Enzo.
>
> > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=3DJames_Allen&id=3D42407
>
> > McLaren's troubles
>
> > There is a slight impression of =91drift=92 at McLaren at the moment, li=
ke
> > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > the set-up =91sweet spot=92 on their car at the moment.
>
> > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso=92s experience, partly
> > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > down by the testing restrictions =96 so it=92s up to the race drivers to=

> > find the best set-up on race weekends and it=92s not happening."
>
> Harsh, but fair.
>
> Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
> Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -

If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

On Apr 26, 6:40 pm, dr_cooke <Flope...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
> > > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is=

> > > Enzo.
>
> > > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=3DJames_Allen&id=3D42407
>
> > > McLaren's troubles
>
> > > There is a slight impression of =91drift=92 at McLaren at the moment, =
like
> > > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > > the set-up =91sweet spot=92 on their car at the moment.
>
> > > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso=92s experience, partl=
y
> > > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly=

> > > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > > down by the testing restrictions =96 so it=92s up to the race drivers =
to
> > > find the best set-up on race weekends and it=92s not happening."
>
> > Harsh, but fair.
>
> > Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> > would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
> > Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> > correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
> confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
> He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
> Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
> there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).

I agree entirely, but you can't call the results of Friday practise a
"leap" under any stretch of the imagination. If they quality well then
that's something but he hasn't even finished on the podium yet this
year. Mclaren have at least continued their recent form by winning in
Australia and picking up podiums. I actually think the reason Renault
fell off last year so much was that they were heavily reliant on the
michelin's for their advantage and struggled with moving to
bridgestone tyres. Mclaren had an easier transition (and a nice 780
page dossier to help :)

Realistically Renault may return to the winner's circle later on in
the season but for now they will still struggle to make it into Q2 and
Q3 no matter what the practise sheets may say.

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"Kimi Fan" <kimisbest@gmail . com > skrev i melding
news:b88e7164-5cf1-4874-a36b-c04fda6a53c2@w5g2000prd.googlegroups . com ...
On Apr 26, 6:40 pm, dr_cooke <Flope...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
> > > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
> > > Enzo.
>
> > > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=42407
>
> > > McLaren's troubles
>
> > > There is a slight impression of ‘drift’ at McLaren at the moment, like
> > > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > > the set-up ‘sweet spot’ on their car at the moment.
>
> > > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso’s experience, partly
> > > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> > > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > > down by the testing restrictions – so it’s up to the race drivers to
> > > find the best set-up on race weekends and it’s not happening."
>
> > Harsh, but fair.
>
> > Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> > would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
> > Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> > correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
> confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
> He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
> Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
> there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).

I agree entirely, but you can't call the results of Friday practise a
"leap" under any stretch of the imagination. If they quality well then
that's something but he hasn't even finished on the podium yet this
year. Mclaren have at least continued their recent form by winning in
Australia and picking up podiums. I actually think the reason Renault
fell off last year so much was that they were heavily reliant on the
michelin's for their advantage and struggled with moving to
bridgestone tyres. Mclaren had an easier transition (and a nice 780
page dossier to help :)

Realistically Renault may return to the winner's circle later on in
the season but for now they will still struggle to make it into Q2 and
Q3 no matter what the practise sheets may say.

May I allow myself a small chuckle at reading this, about ten minutes after
qualifying finished?
Doc

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"dr_cooke" <Flopezve@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:75b3e8d7-7ccf-4415-a3a0-7e74cfadba70@26g2000hsk.googlegroups . com ...
On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
> > Enzo.
>
> > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=42407
>
> > McLaren's troubles
>
> > There is a slight impression of ‘drift’ at McLaren at the moment, like
> > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > the set-up ‘sweet spot’ on their car at the moment.
>
> > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso’s experience, partly
> > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > down by the testing restrictions – so it’s up to the race drivers to
> > find the best set-up on race weekends and it’s not happening."
>
> Harsh, but fair.
>
> Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
> Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -

>If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
>confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
>He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
>Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
>there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).

Oh, right. Nothing to do with the late arrived J Damper then. OK

AC

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"dr_cooke" <Flopezve@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:75b3e8d7-7ccf-4415-a3a0-7e74cfadba70@26g2000hsk.googlegroups . com ...
On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
> > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
> > Enzo.
>
> > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=42407
>
> > McLaren's troubles
>
> > There is a slight impression of 'drift' at McLaren at the moment, like
> > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > the set-up 'sweet spot' on their car at the moment.
>
> > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso's experience, partly
> > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > down by the testing restrictions - so it's up to the race drivers to
> > find the best set-up on race weekends and it's not happening."
>
> Harsh, but fair.

But not actually anywhere near the correct explanation.
>
> Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.

I think there's a huge misconception amongst most fans about the role of the
driver in setting up the car at each race at this level of the sport. People
seem to think the driver goes out, thrashes the thing round for a couple of
laps comes back in says something like "Righto chaps, it's still
understeering a bit, we need a bit more front bump damping, two turns of
wing, a couple of psi in the rear tyres. You get that done, smoke me a
kipper and I'll be back for breakfast."

Well that might be something like correct in club level tin tops where the
mechanic has no idea what the car is doing until the driver tells him but
it's years out of date from being relevant in F1. There are so many sensors
on the car, several hundred of them, the pit crew know more about what the
car is doing than the driver. They can see when it's understeering,
oversteering, how well it's braking, accelerating, cornering and anything
else you can imagine. The driver still has an input of course about matters
of 'feel' and stability but the basic problem is trying to balance the car
in all parts of the track when any changes you make can help one thing but
hurt others. Things that help mechanical grip in low speed corners can hurt
grip in high speed ones. Any significant change you make to wing levels to
trade downforce for top speed means changing gearing, especially now that
there is a fixed rpm limit.

However you juggle things you can't overcome the built in limitations of the
car, primarily aero efficiency, the amount of drag you get relative to the
downforce. Efficient cars have so much more downforce for a given drag level
they can run more of it without sacrificing top speed.

So where did Alonso's claimed 0.5 seconds come from and was it even true.
I'm told it was but it was information he was able to impart about how
Renault went about some basic aspects of car setup to suit a specific track
and where they concentrated their time compared to how McLaren did it
previously. This was incorporated into McLaren procedures very quickly and
from then on there was no further benefit. It definitely wasn't anything to
do with Alonso having some sort of magic feel for the car or its setup
compared to other drivers. There was also clearly nothing further he could
take back to Renault because that's where it had come from anyway other than
perhaps any aspects of McLaren procedures he learned that Renault weren't
doing as well.

The real role of a setup driver is to be able to drive very consistently so
the pit crew can tell what effect a setup change is having rather than this
being confused with the driver's pace on different laps. As I say there is
still a driver input but the best at doing this by a country mile is Pedro
de la Rosa. Better than Alonso, Lewis or anyone else they've had there
recently which is why he's been the test driver for so long. In terms of how
Alonso managed at car setup compared to Lewis or now Heikki there was
nothing significant you could point a finger at.

> Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -

If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).

The McLaren will get better if they can cure some basic aspects of its
balance which aren't quite right yet. The Renault will get better if they
can improve their aero efficiency. Alonso won't make a scrap of difference
to any of this either in hurting McLaren because he isn't there anymore or
helping Renault because he is.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

On Apr 27, 12:08 am, "Dave Baker" <N...@null . com > wrote:
> "dr cooke" <Flope...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:75b3e8d7-7ccf-4415-a3a0-7e74cfadba70@26g2000hsk.googlegroups . com ...
> On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>
> > > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
> > > Enzo.
>
> > > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James Allen&id=42407
>
> > > McLaren's troubles
>
> > > There is a slight impression of 'drift' at McLaren at the moment, like
> > > they have lost their way a little bit.
>
> > > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
> > > the set-up 'sweet spot' on their car at the moment.
>
> > > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso's experience, partly
> > > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
> > > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
> > > down by the testing restrictions - so it's up to the race drivers to
> > > find the best set-up on race weekends and it's not happening."
>
> > Harsh, but fair.
>
> But not actually anywhere near the correct explanation.
>
>
>
> > Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
> > would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
>
> I think there's a huge misconception amongst most fans about the role of the
> driver in setting up the car at each race at this level of the sport. People
> seem to think the driver goes out, thrashes the thing round for a couple of
> laps comes back in says something like "Righto chaps, it's still
> understeering a bit, we need a bit more front bump damping, two turns of
> wing, a couple of psi in the rear tyres. You get that done, smoke me a
> kipper and I'll be back for breakfast."
>
> Well that might be something like correct in club level tin tops where the
> mechanic has no idea what the car is doing until the driver tells him but
> it's years out of date from being relevant in F1. There are so many sensors
> on the car, several hundred of them, the pit crew know more about what the
> car is doing than the driver. They can see when it's understeering,
> oversteering, how well it's braking, accelerating, cornering and anything
> else you can imagine. The driver still has an input of course about matters
> of 'feel' and stability but the basic problem is trying to balance the car
> in all parts of the track when any changes you make can help one thing but
> hurt others. Things that help mechanical grip in low speed corners can hurt
> grip in high speed ones. Any significant change you make to wing levels to
> trade downforce for top speed means changing gearing, especially now that
> there is a fixed rpm limit.
>
> However you juggle things you can't overcome the built in limitations of the
> car, primarily aero efficiency, the amount of drag you get relative to the
> downforce. Efficient cars have so much more downforce for a given drag level
> they can run more of it without sacrificing top speed.
>
> So where did Alonso's claimed 0.5 seconds come from and was it even true.
> I'm told it was but it was information he was able to impart about how
> Renault went about some basic aspects of car setup to suit a specific track
> and where they concentrated their time compared to how McLaren did it
> previously. This was incorporated into McLaren procedures very quickly and
> from then on there was no further benefit. It definitely wasn't anything to
> do with Alonso having some sort of magic feel for the car or its setup
> compared to other drivers. There was also clearly nothing further he could
> take back to Renault because that's where it had come from anyway other than
> perhaps any aspects of McLaren procedures he learned that Renault weren't
> doing as well.
>
> The real role of a setup driver is to be able to drive very consistently so
> the pit crew can tell what effect a setup change is having rather than this
> being confused with the driver's pace on different laps. As I say there is
> still a driver input but the best at doing this by a country mile is Pedro
> de la Rosa. Better than Alonso, Lewis or anyone else they've had there
> recently which is why he's been the test driver for so long. In terms of how
> Alonso managed at car setup compared to Lewis or now Heikki there was
> nothing significant you could point a finger at.
>
> > Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
> > correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
> confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
> He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
> Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
> there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).
>
> The McLaren will get better if they can cure some basic aspects of its
> balance which aren't quite right yet. The Renault will get better if they
> can improve their aero efficiency. Alonso won't make a scrap of difference
> to any of this either in hurting McLaren because he isn't there anymore or
> helping Renault because he is.
> --
> Dave Baker
> Puma Race Engines


If that were true then both drivers in each team would run an
identical setup. Also if that were true Ferrari would not have in
Schumacher to advise the team on setup. How's the view from up there?

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"Dave Baker" <Null@null . com > skrev i melding
news:fuv5ur$8pg$1@news.datemas.de...
>
> "dr_cooke" <Flopezve@gmail . com > wrote in message
> news:75b3e8d7-7ccf-4415-a3a0-7e74cfadba70@26g2000hsk.googlegroups . com ...
> On 26 abr, 04:10, Kimi Fan <kimisb...@gmail . com > wrote:
>> On Apr 26, 1:49 pm, Hello Freddie <Ark...@juno . com > wrote:
>>
>> > James Allen is an F1 expert and ITV F1 commentator. His son's name is
>> > Enzo.
>>
>> > * w w w . it v-f1 . com /Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=42407
>>
>> > McLaren's troubles
>>
>> > There is a slight impression of 'drift' at McLaren at the moment, like
>> > they have lost their way a little bit.
>>
>> > It was quite clear in Malaysia and Bahrain that they are not finding
>> > the set-up 'sweet spot' on their car at the moment.
>>
>> > "I think that is partly because they miss Alonso's experience, partly
>> > because Hamilton and Kovalainen go different ways on set-up and partly
>> > because the amount of testing that Pedro de la Rosa does has been cut
>> > down by the testing restrictions - so it's up to the race drivers to
>> > find the best set-up on race weekends and it's not happening."
>>
>> Harsh, but fair.
>
> But not actually anywhere near the correct explanation.
>>
>> Unfortunately that doesn't explain Renault's poor showing to date. You
>> would expect to see the Renault around 0.5s faster than last year.
>
> I think there's a huge misconception amongst most fans about the role of
> the driver in setting up the car at each race at this level of the sport.
> People seem to think the driver goes out, thrashes the thing round for a
> couple of laps comes back in says something like "Righto chaps, it's still
> understeering a bit, we need a bit more front bump damping, two turns of
> wing, a couple of psi in the rear tyres. You get that done, smoke me a
> kipper and I'll be back for breakfast."
>
> Well that might be something like correct in club level tin tops where the
> mechanic has no idea what the car is doing until the driver tells him but
> it's years out of date from being relevant in F1. There are so many
> sensors on the car, several hundred of them, the pit crew know more about
> what the car is doing than the driver. They can see when it's
> understeering, oversteering, how well it's braking, accelerating,
> cornering and anything else you can imagine. The driver still has an input
> of course about matters of 'feel' and stability but the basic problem is
> trying to balance the car in all parts of the track when any changes you
> make can help one thing but hurt others. Things that help mechanical grip
> in low speed corners can hurt grip in high speed ones. Any significant
> change you make to wing levels to trade downforce for top speed means
> changing gearing, especially now that there is a fixed rpm limit.
>
> However you juggle things you can't overcome the built in limitations of
> the car, primarily aero efficiency, the amount of drag you get relative to
> the downforce. Efficient cars have so much more downforce for a given drag
> level they can run more of it without sacrificing top speed.
>
> So where did Alonso's claimed 0.5 seconds come from and was it even true.
> I'm told it was but it was information he was able to impart about how
> Renault went about some basic aspects of car setup to suit a specific
> track and where they concentrated their time compared to how McLaren did
> it previously. This was incorporated into McLaren procedures very quickly
> and from then on there was no further benefit. It definitely wasn't
> anything to do with Alonso having some sort of magic feel for the car or
> its setup compared to other drivers. There was also clearly nothing
> further he could take back to Renault because that's where it had come
> from anyway other than perhaps any aspects of McLaren procedures he
> learned that Renault weren't doing as well.
>
> The real role of a setup driver is to be able to drive very consistently
> so the pit crew can tell what effect a setup change is having rather than
> this being confused with the driver's pace on different laps. As I say
> there is still a driver input but the best at doing this by a country mile
> is Pedro de la Rosa. Better than Alonso, Lewis or anyone else they've had
> there recently which is why he's been the test driver for so long. In
> terms of how Alonso managed at car setup compared to Lewis or now Heikki
> there was nothing significant you could point a finger at.
>
>> Certainly, if they return to winning trim then the critics will be
>> correct.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
>>
>> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
>
> If Renault's "leap" is big enough and yesterday's practice times are
> confirmed... then it seems Alonso could have somethig to do with it.
> He was there when Renault built a winning R25, he was there when
> Mclaren improved from nothing to winning 8 races and now he will be
> there when Renault make a decent R28 (if they do so).
>
> The McLaren will get better if they can cure some basic aspects of its
> balance which aren't quite right yet. The Renault will get better if they
> can improve their aero efficiency. Alonso won't make a scrap of difference
> to any of this either in hurting McLaren because he isn't there anymore or
> helping Renault because he is.

It seems to me you are saying that technology is be be-all and end-all of F1
development to-day, and that the driver makes very little difference. In
which case, of course, Toyota, with its huge budgets and an equally huge
technological armoury at its disposal, should be miles ahead of the rest.
And the idea of paying phone-book salaries for top drivers is a waste of
money.
Neither of which is happening, particularly as judged after to-day's
qualifying.
Doc

> --
> Dave Baker
> Puma Race Engines
>

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"Doc Knutsen" <doc@cheekracingDOTcom> wrote in message
news:lZidnRxT1rXIsI7VnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comnet...
> It seems to me you are saying that technology is be be-all and end-all of
> F1 development to-day, and that the driver makes very little difference.
> In which case, of course, Toyota, with its huge budgets and an equally
> huge technological armoury at its disposal, should be miles ahead of the
> rest.

You can have as much money as you want if no one working there knows their
arse from their elbow.


> And the idea of paying phone-book salaries for top drivers is a waste of
> money.

A complete non-sequitor from anything I said.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"Dave Baker" <Null@null . com > skrev i melding
news:fuvat0$eat$1@news.datemas.de...
>
> "Doc Knutsen" <doc@cheekracingDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:lZidnRxT1rXIsI7VnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comnet...
>> It seems to me you are saying that technology is be be-all and end-all of
>> F1 development to-day, and that the driver makes very little difference.
>> In which case, of course, Toyota, with its huge budgets and an equally
>> huge technological armoury at its disposal, should be miles ahead of the
>> rest.
>
> You can have as much money as you want if no one working there knows their
> arse from their elbow.
>
>
>> And the idea of paying phone-book salaries for top drivers is a waste of
>> money.
>
> A complete non-sequitor from anything I said.

You seemed, to my eyes, to claim that the qualities of the driver makes very
little difference. Hence, paying huge sums in driver salary has to be a
waste of budget.
Doc
> --
> Dave Baker
> Puma Race Engines
>

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"Doc Knutsen" <doc@cheekracingDOTcom> wrote in message
news:8q6dnRNp-sGnrY7VnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comnet...
>>> And the idea of paying phone-book salaries for top drivers is a waste of
>>> money.
>>
>> A complete non-sequitor from anything I said.
>
> You seemed, to my eyes, to claim that the qualities of the driver makes
> very little difference. Hence, paying huge sums in driver salary has to be
> a waste of budget.

So you believe drivers salaries have nothing to do with how fast the driver
actually is but are determined entirely by their ability to set the cars up?
What a curious point of view. Pedro should be on about $100m a year then by
your measure.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"

Dave Baker <Null@null . com > wrote:

> The real role of a setup driver is to be able to drive very consistently so
> the pit crew can tell what effect a setup change is having rather than this
> being confused with the driver's pace on different laps. As I say there is
> still a driver input but the best at doing this by a country mile is Pedro
> de la Rosa. Better than Alonso, Lewis or anyone else they've had there
> recently which is why he's been the test driver for so long. In terms of how
> Alonso managed at car setup compared to Lewis or now Heikki there was
> nothing significant you could point a finger at.

Pedro is indeed a good setup driver. So was Wurz. So was Panis. The
best. All of them good at setting the baseline, yet utterly mediocre at
going beyond it. All of them utterly non-descript at ekeing out those
last few km/h. If setup was all there was, Pedro, Oliver and Alex would
be WDCs all. As it is they're all either retired, in secondary roles or
has-beens.

What you seem to fail to take into account in your theory is the fact
that the car is being set up FOR A DRIVER. That is the whole point of
the exercise. Not for some theoretical computerised robot to drive, but
for a real, live, human being, to whom the notions of "feel" you dismiss
so easily are absolutely paramount.

It is precisely the feel of the car which will inspire the driver to
hang it out just that little more and gain those extra tenths, or
conversely will make him feel nervous and rein it in a bit. A driver
like De la Rosa is good at sorting out a car and setting a baseline, but
I dare say the only person who can truly set up a car such that Alonso
will make the most of it, is Alonso himself. He knows what he wants and
how to take advantage of it. To that end, he can and does make a
difference - quite a significant one.

He did at Renault before, he did at McLaren and he's doing it again at
Renault. To choose to downplay or deny what is increasingly self-evident
is more to do with your dislike of Alonso than any empirical evidence.

> The McLaren will get better if they can cure some basic aspects of its
> balance which aren't quite right yet. The Renault will get better if they
> can improve their aero efficiency. Alonso won't make a scrap of difference
> to any of this either in hurting McLaren because he isn't there anymore or
> helping Renault because he is.

So Senna, Prost, Schumacher and Alonso had nothing to do with the
success of their cars? Careful before you reply, there are 16 WDCs and
hundreds of GP wins, right there. There may well be a clue to be had...
--
ric at pixelligence dot com

Re: Formula 1 Expert James Allen Says 'troubled" McLaren "miss Alonso's experience"


"ric zito" <address@in.sig> wrote in message
news:1ig0mxj.3fku8911duji8N%address@in.sig...
> Dave Baker <Null@null . com > wrote:
>
>> The real role of a setup driver is to be able to drive very consistently
>> so
>> the pit crew can tell what effect a setup change is having rather than
>> this
>> being confused with the driver's pace on different laps. As I say there
>> is
>> still a driver input but the best at doing this by a country mile is
>> Pedro
>> de la Rosa. Better than Alonso, Lewis or anyone else they've had there
>> recently which is why he's been the test driver for so long. In terms of
>> how
>> Alonso managed at car setup compared to Lewis or now Heikki there was
>> nothing significant you could point a finger at.
>
> Pedro is indeed a good setup driver. So was Wurz. So was Panis. The
> best. All of them good at setting the baseline, yet utterly mediocre at
> going beyond it. All of them utterly non-descript at ekeing out those
> last few km/h. If setup was all there was, Pedro, Oliver and Alex would
> be WDCs all. As it is they're all either retired, in secondary roles or
> has-beens.
>
> What you seem to fail to take into account in your theory is the fact
> that the car is being set up FOR A DRIVER. That is the whole point of
> the exercise. Not for some theoretical computerised robot to drive, but
> for a real, live, human being, to whom the notions of "feel" you dismiss
> so easily are absolutely paramount.
>
> It is precisely the feel of the car which will inspire the driver to
> hang it out just that little more and gain those extra tenths, or
> conversely will make him feel nervous and rein it in a bit. A driver
> like De la Rosa is good at sorting out a car and setting a baseline, but
> I dare say the only person who can truly set up a car such that Alonso
> will make the most of it, is Alonso himself. He knows what he wants and
> how to take advantage of it. To that end, he can and does make a
> difference - quite a significant one.
>
> He did at Renault before, he did at McLaren and he's doing it again at
> Renault. To choose to downplay or deny what is increasingly self-evident
> is more to do with your dislike of Alonso than any empirical evidence.
>
>> The McLaren will get better if they can cure some basic aspects of its
>> balance which aren't quite right yet. The Renault will get better if they
>> can improve their aero efficiency. Alonso won't make a scrap of
>> difference
>> to any of this either in hurting McLaren because he isn't there anymore
>> or
>> helping Renault because he is.
>
> So Senna, Prost, Schumacher and Alonso had nothing to do with the
> success of their cars? Careful before you reply, there are 16 WDCs and
> hundreds of GP wins, right there. There may well be a clue to be had...
> --
> ric at pixelligence dot com

Testing is very different to racing. You know that, right?

Because you seem to think that some one who can drive consistent, perfect
laps is able to do that in a race and then also overtake or defend. Very
different skills for very different men.

AC