What's the bore and stroke of an F1 engine?

At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
per second. How far do they travel?

<PP@2K.com> wrote in message
news:ojqb14dhbjcckqfdh5nhs42pl0mgc0g48p@4ax.com...
> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> per second. How far do they travel?

Depends...

If it was Alonso's engine, Well ;-)

PP@2K.com wrote:
> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> per second. How far do they travel?


Sometimes (vis. Renault and BMW at Catalunya) farther than planned.

On Apr 28, 8:18 am, P...@2K.com wrote:
> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> per second.  How far do they travel?

Distance traveled in a second, or distance between tdc and bdc?
Someone please answer his/her enquiry as I'd like to know myself.
Stipulating a minimum 6" stroke, with cast-iron rods, would do F1 the
world of good!

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT), "brafield@hotmail.com"
<brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 28, 8:18 am, P...@2K.com wrote:
>> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
>> per second.  How far do they travel?
>
>Distance traveled in a second, or distance between tdc and bdc?
>Someone please answer his/her enquiry as I'd like to know myself.
>Stipulating a minimum 6" stroke, with cast-iron rods, would do F1 the
>world of good!

Length of stroke is what I meant. What's the distance they have to
travel more than 300 times per second? It can't be very far.

In article <kbtb14dlpboip8rvdsk429pko5lib53sh8@4ax.com>, PP@2K.com says...
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT), "brafield@hotmail.com"
> <brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Apr 28, 8:18 am, P...@2K.com wrote:
> >> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> >> per second.  How far do they travel?
> >
> >Distance traveled in a second, or distance between tdc and bdc?
> >Someone please answer his/her enquiry as I'd like to know myself.
> >Stipulating a minimum 6" stroke, with cast-iron rods, would do F1 the
> >world of good!
>  
> Length of stroke is what I meant. What's the distance they have to
> travel more than 300 times per second? It can't be very far.
> 

Some interesting stuff here:

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/piston_velocity_and_acceler=
ation.htm

I once sat and worked out how a piston's speed was related to rpm, and stro=
ke length, but 
I'm damned if I can find it now (or remember how to do it!)

-- 
Halmyre

That's you that is.

In article <MPG.2280376dbc7003ce989800@news.tesco.net>, no.spam@this.addres=
s says...
> In article <kbtb14dlpboip8rvdsk429pko5lib53sh8@4ax.com>, PP@2K.com says..=
.
> > On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT), "brafield@hotmail.com"
> > <brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >On Apr 28, 8:18 am, P...@2K.com wrote:
> > >> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> > >> per second.  How far do they travel?
> > >
> > >Distance traveled in a second, or distance between tdc and bdc?
> > >Someone please answer his/her enquiry as I'd like to know myself.
> > >Stipulating a minimum 6" stroke, with cast-iron rods, would do F1 the
> > >world of good!
> >  
> > Length of stroke is what I meant. What's the distance they have to
> > travel more than 300 times per second? It can't be very far.
> > 
> 
> Some interesting stuff here:
> 
> http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/piston_velocity_and_accel=
eration.htm
> 
> I once sat and worked out how a piston's speed was related to rpm, and st=
roke length, but 
> I'm damned if I can find it now (or remember how to do it!)
> 
> 

Oh bollocks; for stroke length read con-rod length.

-- 
Halmyre

That's you that is.

"Halmyre" <no.spam@this.address> wrote in message
news:MPG.228037be5f64132a989801@news.tesco.net...
>> I once sat and worked out how a piston's speed was related to rpm, and
>> stroke length, but
>> I'm damned if I can find it now (or remember how to do it!)
>>
>>
>
> Oh bollocks; for stroke length read con-rod length.

I think it's somthing like this for distance from TDC I hope but it's been a
while.

(CLR+T) - (square-root(CRL^2-(T^2-(T*Cos(RC) ^2)))-T*Cos(RC))

Where:
CRL is con rod length
T is throw
RC is rotation of crank.

Halmyre <no.spam@this.address> wrote in
news:MPG.2280376dbc7003ce989800@news.tesco.net:

> In article <kbtb14dlpboip8rvdsk429pko5lib53sh8@4ax.com>, PP@2K.com
> says...
>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT), "brafield@hotmail.com"
>> <brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 28, 8:18 am, P...@2K.com wrote:
>> >> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300
>> >> times per second.  How far do they travel?
>> >
>> >Distance traveled in a second, or distance between tdc and bdc?
>> >Someone please answer his/her enquiry as I'd like to know myself.
>> >Stipulating a minimum 6" stroke, with cast-iron rods, would do F1
>> >the world of good!
>>
>> Length of stroke is what I meant. What's the distance they have to
>> travel more than 300 times per second? It can't be very far.
>>
>
> Some interesting stuff here:
>
> http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/piston_velocity_and_acc
> eleration.htm
>
> I once sat and worked out how a piston's speed was related to rpm, and
> stroke length, but I'm damned if I can find it now (or remember how to
> do it!)
>
It would certainly be a sin/cos function.

wrote... 

> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> per second. How far do they travel?
> 


Some info here

http://www.f1technical.net/articles/4

Following the history of changes, it's pretty obvious that if anyone 
other than Ferrari gains an advantage, the rulz is changed.



Regulations

The current regulations on Formula One engines look like this. These 
specifications have become more strict during recent years in an attempt 
to limit costs and decrease performance. You can find an evolution of 
the most important regulations per era in the safety section. As this is 
only an exerpt of the most important regulations on engines, you would 
need to see the official FIA technical regulations before you start to 
design a Formula One engine yourself.

Specification
Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted.
Engine capacity must not exceed 2400 cc.
Supercharging is forbidden.
All engines must have 8 cylinders arranged in a 90º =3FV=3F configura=
tion 
and the normal section of each cylinder must be circular.
Engines must have two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder.
Only reciprocating poppet valves are permitted.
The sealing interface between the moving valve component and the 
stationary engine component must be circular.

Dimensions, weight and centre of gravity
Cylinder bore diameter may not exceed 98mm.
Cylinder spacing must be fixed at 106.5mm (+/- 0.2mm).
The crankshaft centreline must not be less than 58mm above the reference 
plane.
The overall weight of the engine must be a minimum of 95kg.
The centre of gravity of the engine may not lie less than 165mm above 
the reference plane.
The longitudinal and lateral position of the centre of gravity of the 
engine must fall within a region that is the geometric centre of the 
engine, +/- 50mm. The geometric centre of the engine in a lateral sense 
will be considered to lie on the centre of the crankshaft and at the mid 
point between the centres of the forward and rear most cylinder bores 
longitudinally.
Variable geometry systems are not permitted

Materials
Magnesium based alloys, Metal Matrix Composites (MMC=3Fs) and 
Intermetallic materials may not be used anywhere in an engine
Coatings are free provided and must not exceed 0.8mm.
Pistons must be manufactured from an aluminium alloy which is either Al-
Si ; Al-Cu ; Al-Mg or Al-Zn based.
Piston pins, crankshafts and camshafts must be manufactured from an iron 
based alloy and must be machined from a single piece of material.

On Apr 28, 8:43 am, Jon <m...@privvy.net> wrote:
>  wrote...
> > At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> > per second.  How far do they travel?
>
> Some info here
>
> http://www.f1technical.net/articles/4
>
> Following the history of changes, it's pretty obvious that if anyone
> other than Ferrari gains an advantage, the rulz is changed.
>
> Regulations
>
> The current regulations on Formula One engines look like this. These
> specifications have become more strict during recent years in an attempt
> to limit costs and decrease performance. You can find an evolution of
> the most important regulations per era in the safety section. As this is
> only an exerpt of the most important regulations on engines, you would
> need to see the official FIA technical regulations before you start to
> design a Formula One engine yourself.
>
> Specification
> Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted.
> Engine capacity must not exceed 2400 cc.
> Supercharging is forbidden.
> All engines must have 8 cylinders arranged in a 90º =3FV=3F configur=
ation
> and the normal section of each cylinder must be circular.
> Engines must have two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder.
> Only reciprocating poppet valves are permitted.
> The sealing interface between the moving valve component and the
> stationary engine component must be circular.
>
> Dimensions, weight and centre of gravity
> Cylinder bore diameter may not exceed 98mm.
> Cylinder spacing must be fixed at 106.5mm (+/- 0.2mm).
> The crankshaft centreline must not be less than 58mm above the reference
> plane.
> The overall weight of the engine must be a minimum of 95kg.
> The centre of gravity of the engine may not lie less than 165mm above
> the reference plane.
> The longitudinal and lateral position of the centre of gravity of the
> engine must fall within a region that is the geometric centre of the
> engine, +/- 50mm. The geometric centre of the engine in a lateral sense
> will be considered to lie on the centre of the crankshaft and at the mid
> point between the centres of the forward and rear most cylinder bores
> longitudinally.
> Variable geometry systems are not permitted
>
> Materials
> Magnesium based alloys, Metal Matrix Composites (MMC=3Fs) and
> Intermetallic materials may not be used anywhere in an engine
> Coatings are free provided and must not exceed 0.8mm.
> Pistons must be manufactured from an aluminium alloy which is either Al-
> Si ; Al-Cu ; Al-Mg or Al-Zn based.
> Piston pins, crankshafts and camshafts must be manufactured from an iron
> based alloy and must be machined from a single piece of material.

Thank you for posting that. Makes me wonder why, such a little little
time ago, the V-10 was designated "the best possible configuration."
If the FIA's objective is to "slow down" speeds, I know someone who
has about 50 old but identical Ford Windsor V-8's that would cost less
than McLaren's bar bill.

PP@2K.com wrote:

> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> per second. How far do they travel?


Here are some numbers, based on a 2.5 stroke:bore ratio (found on a
less-than-authoritative sounding Wiki page.)

2400cc/8
300 cc per Cylinder

Bore
14.5cm = 5.7 inches
Stroke
5.7cm = 2.25 inches
(14.5 x 5.7 gives 299.6 cc per pot)

Piston travel per crank rotation.
4.5 inches (stroke*2 / 2.54)

Average velocity at 19K:
(Peak V will be ~1.4x higher, I believe.)

=85,500 inches/minute
=1425 inches/sec
=7125 feet/min
=81 Miles/hr
6 Meters/sec


<Looking for validation...>
Ah, here's an article about BMW'2 2003 V10
http://scarbsf1.com/BMW_P83/index.html

My values look ballpark accurate.

Greg Campbell wrote...

> PP@2K.com wrote:
>
> > At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
> > per second. How far do they travel?
>
>
> Here are some numbers, based on a 2.5 stroke:bore ratio (found on a
> less-than-authoritative sounding Wiki page.)
>
> 2400cc/8
> 300 cc per Cylinder
>
> Bore
> 14.5cm = 5.7 inches


F1 rulz state -
Cylinder bore diameter may not exceed 98mm.

"Jon" <me@privvy.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.2280276a5a6d7bda9896dd@66.250.146.159...
> Greg Campbell wrote...
>
>> PP@2K.com wrote:
>>
>> > At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
>> > per second. How far do they travel?
>>
>>
>> Here are some numbers, based on a 2.5 stroke:bore ratio (found on a
>> less-than-authoritative sounding Wiki page.)
>>
>> 2400cc/8
>> 300 cc per Cylinder
>>
>> Bore
>> 14.5cm = 5.7 inches
>
>
> F1 rulz state -
> Cylinder bore diameter may not exceed 98mm.

So a stroke of about 39.7mm

Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net> writes:
> PP@2K.com wrote:
>
>> At 19,000 RPM, the pistons are going up and down more than 300 times
>> per second. How far do they travel?
>
>
> Here are some numbers, based on a 2.5 stroke:bore ratio (found on a
> less-than-authoritative sounding Wiki page.)
>
> 2400cc/8
> 300 cc per Cylinder
>
> Bore
> 14.5cm = 5.7 inches
> Stroke
> 5.7cm = 2.25 inches
> (14.5 x 5.7 gives 299.6 cc per pot)

cm*cm != cc

Phil
--
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
-- Microsoft voice recognition live demonstration