FIA analysing Kovalainen crash

Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.

* en.f1-live . com /f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080430095104.shtml

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

forty wrote:
> Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
> response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.

I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
red-flagging the race.
--
John Briggs

On Apr 30, 2:52 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
> forty wrote:
> > Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
> > response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>
> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker withou=
t
> red-flagging the race.
> --
> John Briggs

Agreed. I think we get a touch overly worked up about the response
time for drivers in these sorts of situations. If I were to roll over
my open top car on the motorway in the UK I would have to wait for at
least 10-15 minutes for a paramedic to attend in all likelihood. I
would be in a vehicle which is far less well protected against impact
than a F1 car, I wouldn't be held in by a multipoint harness with neck
restraints and a crash helment, I wouldn't have deliberately been
driving in a risky manner prior to the incident, and there would be no-
one properly trained to assist directly on the scene immediately if my
vehicle developed a fire.

I'm NOT saying that drivers should get any less protection than they
receive at the moment, but we should get things into context compared
to the "real" world.

50 mph shunts in an F1 car are usually a complete non-event - in my
road car that would be one hell of a crash and I would likely be
seriously injured.

Other instances of motorsport might have better response time (though
the finger here normall points to Indy or Cart championships where,
lets face it, the physical restraints on getting to the scene of the
accident at an oval are far less than at a 3 mile long, twisty F1
circuit), but that doesn't mean that the response time is either
inappropriate or too slow.

Matt

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:10:05 -0700 (PDT), larkim
<matthew.larkin@gmail . com > wrote:

>On Apr 30, 2:52 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
>> forty wrote:
>> > Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
>> > response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>>
>> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
>> red-flagging the race.
>> --
>> John Briggs
>
>Agreed. I think we get a touch overly worked up about the response
>time for drivers in these sorts of situations. If I were to roll over
>my open top car on the motorway in the UK I would have to wait for at
>least 10-15 minutes for a paramedic to attend in all likelihood. I
>would be in a vehicle which is far less well protected against impact
>than a F1 car, I wouldn't be held in by a multipoint harness with neck
>restraints and a crash helment, I wouldn't have deliberately been
>driving in a risky manner prior to the incident, and there would be no-
>one properly trained to assist directly on the scene immediately if my
>vehicle developed a fire.
>
>I'm NOT saying that drivers should get any less protection than they
>receive at the moment, but we should get things into context compared
>to the "real" world.
>
But it is not the "real" world. This is a race track, designed to hold
race meetings in an as safe as possible environment.
If this happened at the first or second race at Bahrain or China,
alright, learning curve and all that, but not at an established place
like Barcelona.

I'm not going too mental on this, they obviously can't have a medical
car waiting at every turn, but it must be taken seriously enough to
try an avoid another occurance. That probably means redesigning the
run offs there and if that can not be done, then for sure placing
medical crews nearby.
I'm kinda amazed actually that with all the expense of tracks, there
isn't a couple of medics and some basic equipment at each marshall
station, alas, bloody doctors are probably way too expensive.
<Hi Doc.> ;-p

It is not unlike in Melbourne when on the first or second race a
single hole in the fence(about 2 x 3 foot), made for quick access to
the track for the marshalls, received a perfect lob in the form of a
rogue wheel off an F1 car and knocked over one of those very
marshalls.. It won't happen again, as all the access holes are either
double fenced or faced away from the turn now.
Hindsight being a wonderful thing, the track crew and management were
just about crucified for that, but nobody, not the numerous drivers,
not the FIA approved stewards, nobody that circled and walked that
track noticed that hole as a potential death slot.

--

Regards, Frank

On Apr 30, 3:42 pm, Frank Adam <f...@notthis.optushome . com .au> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:10:05 -0700 (PDT), larkim
>
>
>
>
>
> <matthew.lar...@gmail . com > wrote:
> >On Apr 30, 2:52 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
> >> forty wrote:
> >> > Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
> >> > response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>
> >> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker wit=
hout
> >> red-flagging the race.
> >> --
> >> John Briggs
>
> >Agreed.  I think we get a touch overly worked up about the response
> >time for drivers in these sorts of situations.  If I were to roll over
> >my open top car on the motorway in the UK I would have to wait for at
> >least 10-15 minutes for a paramedic to attend in all likelihood.  I
> >would be in a vehicle which is far less well protected against impact
> >than a F1 car, I wouldn't be held in by a multipoint harness with neck
> >restraints and a crash helment, I wouldn't have deliberately been
> >driving in a risky manner prior to the incident, and there would be no-
> >one properly trained to assist directly on the scene immediately if my
> >vehicle developed a fire.
>
> >I'm NOT saying that drivers should get any less protection than they
> >receive at the moment, but we should get things into context compared
> >to the "real" world.
>
> But it is not the "real" world. This is a race track, designed to hold
> race meetings in an as safe as possible environment.
> If this happened at the first or second race at Bahrain or China,
> alright, learning curve and all that, but not at an established place
> like Barcelona.
>
> I'm not going too mental on this, they obviously can't have a medical
> car waiting at every turn, but it must be taken seriously enough to
> try an avoid another occurance. That probably means redesigning the
> run offs there and if that can not be done, then for sure placing
> medical crews nearby.
> I'm kinda amazed actually that with all the expense of tracks, there
> isn't a couple of medics and some basic equipment at each marshall
> station, alas, bloody doctors are probably way too expensive.
> <Hi Doc.> ;-p
>
> It is not unlike in Melbourne when on the first or second race a
> single hole in the fence(about 2 x 3 foot), made for quick access to
> the track for the marshalls, received a perfect lob in the form of a
> rogue wheel off an F1 car and knocked over one of those very
> marshalls.. It won't happen again, as all the access holes are either
> double fenced or faced away from the turn now.  
> Hindsight being a wonderful thing, the track crew and management were
> just about crucified for that, but nobody, not the numerous drivers,
> not the FIA approved stewards, nobody that circled and walked that
> track noticed that hole as a potential death slot.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Frank- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I might be wrong here, but would I be assuming too much by imagining
that the track marshalls are trained to a basic standard in first aid,
so that whilst it might look like there are 4 or 5 middle aged motor
racing enthusiasts flapping around one of their idols and getting
their hands on a real F1 car, in truth they are making some sensible
assessments of the risk to life and limb and are primed to make some
rapid responses in the least harmful way should they need to? I work
as an accountant at a place which looks after people with epilepsy,
and whilst I have never had to help look after someon after a seizure,
I am trained in the basics which could make a difference to someone in
the few seconds / minutes before health arrives; I would be surprised
if track marshalls don't have similar levels of training.

Matt

larkim wrote:
> On Apr 30, 3:42 pm, Frank Adam <f...@notthis.optushome . com .au> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:10:05 -0700 (PDT), larkim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <matthew.lar...@gmail . com > wrote:
>>> On Apr 30, 2:52 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
>>>> forty wrote:
>>>>> Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
>>>>> response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>>>> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
>>>> red-flagging the race.
>>>> --
>>>> John Briggs
>>> Agreed. I think we get a touch overly worked up about the response
>>> time for drivers in these sorts of situations. If I were to roll over
>>> my open top car on the motorway in the UK I would have to wait for at
>>> least 10-15 minutes for a paramedic to attend in all likelihood. I
>>> would be in a vehicle which is far less well protected against impact
>>> than a F1 car, I wouldn't be held in by a multipoint harness with neck
>>> restraints and a crash helment, I wouldn't have deliberately been
>>> driving in a risky manner prior to the incident, and there would be no-
>>> one properly trained to assist directly on the scene immediately if my
>>> vehicle developed a fire.
>>> I'm NOT saying that drivers should get any less protection than they
>>> receive at the moment, but we should get things into context compared
>>> to the "real" world.
>> But it is not the "real" world. This is a race track, designed to hold
>> race meetings in an as safe as possible environment.
>> If this happened at the first or second race at Bahrain or China,
>> alright, learning curve and all that, but not at an established place
>> like Barcelona.
>>
>> I'm not going too mental on this, they obviously can't have a medical
>> car waiting at every turn, but it must be taken seriously enough to
>> try an avoid another occurance. That probably means redesigning the
>> run offs there and if that can not be done, then for sure placing
>> medical crews nearby.
>> I'm kinda amazed actually that with all the expense of tracks, there
>> isn't a couple of medics and some basic equipment at each marshall
>> station, alas, bloody doctors are probably way too expensive.
>> <Hi Doc.> ;-p
>>
>> It is not unlike in Melbourne when on the first or second race a
>> single hole in the fence(about 2 x 3 foot), made for quick access to
>> the track for the marshalls, received a perfect lob in the form of a
>> rogue wheel off an F1 car and knocked over one of those very
>> marshalls.. It won't happen again, as all the access holes are either
>> double fenced or faced away from the turn now.
>> Hindsight being a wonderful thing, the track crew and management were
>> just about crucified for that, but nobody, not the numerous drivers,
>> not the FIA approved stewards, nobody that circled and walked that
>> track noticed that hole as a potential death slot.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards, Frank- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I might be wrong here, but would I be assuming too much by imagining
> that the track marshalls are trained to a basic standard in first aid,
> so that whilst it might look like there are 4 or 5 middle aged motor
> racing enthusiasts flapping around one of their idols and getting
> their hands on a real F1 car, in truth they are making some sensible
> assessments of the risk to life and limb and are primed to make some
> rapid responses in the least harmful way should they need to? I work
> as an accountant at a place which looks after people with epilepsy,
> and whilst I have never had to help look after someon after a seizure,
> I am trained in the basics which could make a difference to someone in
> the few seconds / minutes before health arrives; I would be surprised
> if track marshalls don't have similar levels of training.
>
> Matt

Appendix H of the International Sporting Code mandates that each station
be staffed with at least 1 marshal with formal first aid training.
Marshalling Chiefs for such high-profile events usually do a fairly
comprehensive screening of the expertise and experience of the marshals
they issue credentials to (I had to write a bloody resume and cite
multiple references with phone numbers in order to work at Montreal). By
and large, it is realistic to expect that course marshals at F1 circuits
are experienced in responding to incidents and well aware of the medical
issues at hand. They may not have formal training, but they should know
enough to secure the scene until trained medical personnel arrive.

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:02:00 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
wrote:

<big snip>
>
>Appendix H of the International Sporting Code mandates that each station
>be staffed with at least 1 marshal with formal first aid training.
>Marshalling Chiefs for such high-profile events usually do a fairly
>comprehensive screening of the expertise and experience of the marshals
>they issue credentials to (I had to write a bloody resume and cite
>multiple references with phone numbers in order to work at Montreal). By
>and large, it is realistic to expect that course marshals at F1 circuits
>are experienced in responding to incidents and well aware of the medical
>issues at hand. They may not have formal training, but they should know
>enough to secure the scene until trained medical personnel arrive.
>
What are your official guidelines about moving a driver ? ie: If he is
unconscious, visibly badly injured and there is no risk of fire.
At a guess, you probably have to stand there and wait for the medics ?

Having even just one or two experienced paramedics near each black
spot would be very benficial because those guys work the roads and
deal with road trauma day in day out and would be best suited to
assess, stabilise and even move the driver if necessary.

--

Regards, Frank

Frank Adam wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:02:00 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
> wrote:
>
> <big snip>
>> Appendix H of the International Sporting Code mandates that each station
>> be staffed with at least 1 marshal with formal first aid training.
>> Marshalling Chiefs for such high-profile events usually do a fairly
>> comprehensive screening of the expertise and experience of the marshals
>> they issue credentials to (I had to write a bloody resume and cite
>> multiple references with phone numbers in order to work at Montreal). By
>> and large, it is realistic to expect that course marshals at F1 circuits
>> are experienced in responding to incidents and well aware of the medical
>> issues at hand. They may not have formal training, but they should know
>> enough to secure the scene until trained medical personnel arrive.
>>
> What are your official guidelines about moving a driver ? ie: If he is
> unconscious, visibly badly injured and there is no risk of fire.
> At a guess, you probably have to stand there and wait for the medics ?
>

I can't say that this is the standard for all FIA sanctioned events, but
us American (Yank ;-p ) marshals are advised NOT to attempt to extract
an unconscious driver. We do not have the equipment nor (typically) the
proper medical training and experience to do so safely. If the car can
stay where it is with relative safety, we'll keep at least one person
with the driver and the rest of us will do what we can to direct traffic
and otherwise keep the scene secure while we wait for medical personnel.

If the car is not in a safe location we'll attempt to move it if
feasible while keeping the driver's head and neck immobilized (easier
said then done). If we can't move it, we'll do what we can to slow and
direct traffic. The most fun I've had with this was running out on track
with one of the spare yellow flags and standing in front of the incident
waving the shit out of the flag screaming unmentionable obscenities at
oncoming traffic. It is amazing how well drivers respond to seeing a
crazed marshal standing on the course with 'slow the f*ck down or I'll
rip you out of the car, unscrew your head, and s#!t down your neck'
written all over his face. :-D

If there is a fire, we'll attempt to control or put out the fire. The
drivers are actually very well protected against a fire for the
relatively small amount of time they might be exposed to it in such a
situation.

In the very rare event that we cannot wait for the driver to be
extracted, the marshal(s) with the most first aid training and
experience will attempt to extract the driver safely. Even this is very
dangerous and is an absolute last resort.

> Having even just one or two experienced paramedics near each black
> spot would be very benficial because those guys work the roads and
> deal with road trauma day in day out and would be best suited to
> assess, stabilise and even move the driver if necessary.
>

Indeed. I'd like to see more medical personnel on tracks.

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:31:56 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
wrote:

>Frank Adam wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:02:00 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
>> wrote:
>>
>> <big snip>
>>> Appendix H of the International Sporting Code mandates that each station
>>> be staffed with at least 1 marshal with formal first aid training.
>>> Marshalling Chiefs for such high-profile events usually do a fairly
>>> comprehensive screening of the expertise and experience of the marshals
>>> they issue credentials to (I had to write a bloody resume and cite
>>> multiple references with phone numbers in order to work at Montreal). By
>>> and large, it is realistic to expect that course marshals at F1 circuits
>>> are experienced in responding to incidents and well aware of the medical
>>> issues at hand. They may not have formal training, but they should know
>>> enough to secure the scene until trained medical personnel arrive.
>>>
>> What are your official guidelines about moving a driver ? ie: If he is
>> unconscious, visibly badly injured and there is no risk of fire.
>> At a guess, you probably have to stand there and wait for the medics ?
>>
>
>I can't say that this is the standard for all FIA sanctioned events, but
>us American (Yank ;-p ) marshals are advised NOT to attempt to extract
>an unconscious driver. We do not have the equipment nor (typically) the
>proper medical training and experience to do so safely. If the car can
>stay where it is with relative safety, we'll keep at least one person
>with the driver and the rest of us will do what we can to direct traffic
>and otherwise keep the scene secure while we wait for medical personnel.
>
>If the car is not in a safe location we'll attempt to move it if
>feasible while keeping the driver's head and neck immobilized (easier
>said then done). If we can't move it, we'll do what we can to slow and
>direct traffic. The most fun I've had with this was running out on track
>with one of the spare yellow flags and standing in front of the incident
>waving the shit out of the flag screaming unmentionable obscenities at
>oncoming traffic. It is amazing how well drivers respond to seeing a
>crazed marshal standing on the course with 'slow the f*ck down or I'll
>rip you out of the car, unscrew your head, and s#!t down your neck'
>written all over his face. :-D
>
No doubt coupled with that "f*ck i hope they can see me and steer away
in time !" look. ;-)
Though i think that won't really enter your mind at that time. Maybe
afterwards when you think about it and start spilling your beer.
Do note that this is still not a valid reason for spilling beer ! :)

>If there is a fire, we'll attempt to control or put out the fire. The
>drivers are actually very well protected against a fire for the
>relatively small amount of time they might be exposed to it in such a
>situation.
>
>In the very rare event that we cannot wait for the driver to be
>extracted, the marshal(s) with the most first aid training and
>experience will attempt to extract the driver safely. Even this is very
>dangerous and is an absolute last resort.
>
With today's wonderful world of lawsuits, especially in the USA, in
mind, is there any chance that a marshall could be sued if something
went wrong due to moving a driver ? Or are you guys protected against
that in some way ?

--

Regards, Frank

Frank Adam wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:31:56 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Adam wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:02:00 -0400, forty <cforteR3M0V3@THISgmail . com >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <big snip>
>>>> Appendix H of the International Sporting Code mandates that each station
>>>> be staffed with at least 1 marshal with formal first aid training.
>>>> Marshalling Chiefs for such high-profile events usually do a fairly
>>>> comprehensive screening of the expertise and experience of the marshals
>>>> they issue credentials to (I had to write a bloody resume and cite
>>>> multiple references with phone numbers in order to work at Montreal). By
>>>> and large, it is realistic to expect that course marshals at F1 circuits
>>>> are experienced in responding to incidents and well aware of the medical
>>>> issues at hand. They may not have formal training, but they should know
>>>> enough to secure the scene until trained medical personnel arrive.
>>>>
>>> What are your official guidelines about moving a driver ? ie: If he is
>>> unconscious, visibly badly injured and there is no risk of fire.
>>> At a guess, you probably have to stand there and wait for the medics ?
>>>
>> I can't say that this is the standard for all FIA sanctioned events, but
>> us American (Yank ;-p ) marshals are advised NOT to attempt to extract
>> an unconscious driver. We do not have the equipment nor (typically) the
>> proper medical training and experience to do so safely. If the car can
>> stay where it is with relative safety, we'll keep at least one person
>> with the driver and the rest of us will do what we can to direct traffic
>> and otherwise keep the scene secure while we wait for medical personnel.
>>
>> If the car is not in a safe location we'll attempt to move it if
>> feasible while keeping the driver's head and neck immobilized (easier
>> said then done). If we can't move it, we'll do what we can to slow and
>> direct traffic. The most fun I've had with this was running out on track
>> with one of the spare yellow flags and standing in front of the incident
>> waving the shit out of the flag screaming unmentionable obscenities at
>> oncoming traffic. It is amazing how well drivers respond to seeing a
>> crazed marshal standing on the course with 'slow the f*ck down or I'll
>> rip you out of the car, unscrew your head, and s#!t down your neck'
>> written all over his face. :-D
>>
> No doubt coupled with that "f*ck i hope they can see me and steer away
> in time !" look. ;-)
> Though i think that won't really enter your mind at that time. Maybe
> afterwards when you think about it and start spilling your beer.
> Do note that this is still not a valid reason for spilling beer ! :)
>
Oi - there is never an excuse for spilling beer!

I can't recall how many fellow marshals came up to me afterwards and
asked what in God's name I was thinking. The station captain, though,
said it was the right thing to do. Dangerous, but it slowed the cars
down better than any other alternative.

The worst, though, was when dear Mother found out...

>> If there is a fire, we'll attempt to control or put out the fire. The
>> drivers are actually very well protected against a fire for the
>> relatively small amount of time they might be exposed to it in such a
>> situation.
>>
>> In the very rare event that we cannot wait for the driver to be
>> extracted, the marshal(s) with the most first aid training and
>> experience will attempt to extract the driver safely. Even this is very
>> dangerous and is an absolute last resort.
>>
> With today's wonderful world of lawsuits, especially in the USA, in
> mind, is there any chance that a marshall could be sued if something
> went wrong due to moving a driver ? Or are you guys protected against
> that in some way ?
>

There is actually a 'Good Samaritan' law that protects us from that. A
trained first aid responder cannot be sued as long as they adhere to
what they were trained to do. This law protected one of my friends in a
non-racing incident when he performed CPR on a man and broke 5 ribs in
the process. He was certified to perform CPR and followed the proper
procedure perfectly. The attempted lawsuit never made it to court - the
judge threw it out.
--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

Frank Adam wrote:

> I'm not going too mental on this, they obviously can't have a medical
> car waiting at every turn, but it must be taken seriously enough to
> try an avoid another occurance. That probably means redesigning the
> run offs there and if that can not be done, then for sure placing
> medical crews nearby.
> I'm kinda amazed actually that with all the expense of tracks, there
> isn't a couple of medics and some basic equipment at each marshall
> station, alas, bloody doctors are probably way too expensive.

Regulations mandate that emergency response vehicles be stationed around
the circuit, the number of which is determined by the length of the
circuit (although I cannot find the precise formula they use to
determine that number). These response vehicles are to be equipped with
trained medical personnel and first-response medical equipment.

Having such equipment at each station is a little overkill IMO, but it
makes sense for high-risk areas of the circuit. But it is best to leave
that equipment in the hands of trained staff. This is an area I could
see improvement in, and it is something that is being discussed in the
States by the SCCA. It would make sense for a standardized medical kit
to be available, along with training/instruction materials that can be
reviewed beforehand along with a training session put on by FIA medical
officials following Thursday's marshal registration.

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

larkim wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2:52 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
>> forty wrote:
>>> Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
>>> response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
>> red-flagging the race.
>> --
>> John Briggs
>
> Agreed. I think we get a touch overly worked up about the response
> time for drivers in these sorts of situations. If I were to roll over
> my open top car on the motorway in the UK I would have to wait for at
> least 10-15 minutes for a paramedic to attend in all likelihood. I
> would be in a vehicle which is far less well protected against impact
> than a F1 car, I wouldn't be held in by a multipoint harness with neck
> restraints and a crash helment, I wouldn't have deliberately been
> driving in a risky manner prior to the incident, and there would be no-
> one properly trained to assist directly on the scene immediately if my
> vehicle developed a fire.
>
That can be quite true in many instances, but when a driver impacts a
barrier head-on at +/- 250 km/hr, is knocked unconscious, and buried
under a few hundred kilos of tyres, perhaps it is appropriate to 'get
worked up' over a delay in medical response.

> I'm NOT saying that drivers should get any less protection than they
> receive at the moment, but we should get things into context compared
> to the "real" world.
>
> 50 mph shunts in an F1 car are usually a complete non-event - in my
> road car that would be one hell of a crash and I would likely be
> seriously injured.
>
> Other instances of motorsport might have better response time (though
> the finger here normall points to Indy or Cart championships where,
> lets face it, the physical restraints on getting to the scene of the
> accident at an oval are far less than at a 3 mile long, twisty F1
> circuit), but that doesn't mean that the response time is either
> inappropriate or too slow.
>
> Matt

Go to youtube and search for 'Katherine Legge Road America' and see the
medical response on that 'twisty circuit'

Sebring 2008 saw a similarly top-notch response during the race when the
Zytek lost it at Turn 12.

Anyone who works in safety-rescue at road racing circuits would be
appalled at the poor response seen in Heikki's crash.

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

On Apr 30, 9:52 am, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
> forty wrote:
> > Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
> > response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>
> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
> red-flagging the race.

They could have multiple medical cars?

Lenny wrote:
> On Apr 30, 9:52 am, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld . com > wrote:
>> forty wrote:
>>> Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
>>> response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>> I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
>> red-flagging the race.
>
> They could have multiple medical cars?

Depends on the kind of medical car being talked about. The International
Sporting Code requires each circuit to have multiple rescue vehicles
with equipment and personnel suitable for first response medical needs.

--
"We always have hope of winning, because the others might lose..."

Monsieur Orgini - The Grand Prix of Gibraltar

John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld . com > writes
>forty wrote:
>> Thank heavens they are seriously investigating the poor medical
>> response. That kind of delay is unacceptable.
>
>I don't think they could have got the medical car there any quicker without
>red-flagging the race.

Putting safety car out straight away would have been a good start.

Anyway McLaren will probably get a penalty because one of their drivers
was involved.
--
Peter