Driver Rankings - after Catalunya

"Chad" <cbstun@safemail . com > wrote ...
> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
> > "Chad" <cbstun@safemail . com > wrote
> >> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
> >> > "Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceREM> wrote ...
> >> >> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:
> >> >> > "Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceRE> wrote
> >> >> > This is a real significant and major list,
> >> > Meanwhile, you might find interesting/courious
> >> > my long term project.
> >> > Mine has across each 'tier'
> >> > 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
> >> > 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
> >> > (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
> >> > enough to use that big space/line??
> >> > 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
> >> > 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
major snippage
> >> > Comment if you wish.
> >> I don't know who's is more "accurate" stats wise, but I do
> >> find your list easier to "agree" with.
> > It's just visually easy for my eyes, to see.

> >> Senna would move up to just before Lauda for mine.
> > Well, interesting idea - road not taken.
> > Or -- once taken, I'm unlikely to re-do.
> >
> > The spacings, would let both Lauda (3WDC)
> > and MSch (7 WDC) move up from 3rd tier to 2nd tier
> > (hence reducing Piquet (3WDC) to 3rd tier).
> > But, timing and career overlap pretty much
> > keep Senna on my 4th tier.
> > Life (and my work), often is not 'perfect'.
> >
> > Judgement question to you,
> > why do you rate a one make 3WDC,
> > over a earlier two make 3WDC? ;<) ??
> >
> > (or, #1, IMHO, when one has won GPs, in 3
> > different makes of cars - it's not just the car!!
> > or, #2, starting with a team in it's 'down' period
> > and helping bring it to the top, shows something also!!)
> When you put it like that, I almost feel a little guilty for "putting"
Nikki
> down :)

Yeah, I could go into more (re:high points- Lauda), but enough.

> I'd like to give you a nice logical answer, ---
> Chad

I do appreciate you, your comments, and your style.
Please stick around and post more.

"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote in message
news:vLadnYLaFZ3pqYLVnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast . com ...
> "Chad" <cbstun@safemail . com > wrote ...
>> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
>> > "Chad" <cbstun@safemail . com > wrote
>> >> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
>> >> > "Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceREM> wrote ...
>> >> >> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:
>> >> >> > "Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceRE> wrote
>> >> >> > This is a real significant and major list,
>> >> > Meanwhile, you might find interesting/courious
>> >> > my long term project.
>> >> > Mine has across each 'tier'
>> >> > 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
>> >> > 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
>> >> > (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
>> >> > enough to use that big space/line??
>> >> > 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
>> >> > 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
> major snippage
>> >> > Comment if you wish.
>> >> I don't know who's is more "accurate" stats wise, but I do
>> >> find your list easier to "agree" with.
>> > It's just visually easy for my eyes, to see.
>
>> >> Senna would move up to just before Lauda for mine.
>> > Well, interesting idea - road not taken.
>> > Or -- once taken, I'm unlikely to re-do.
>> >
>> > The spacings, would let both Lauda (3WDC)
>> > and MSch (7 WDC) move up from 3rd tier to 2nd tier
>> > (hence reducing Piquet (3WDC) to 3rd tier).
>> > But, timing and career overlap pretty much
>> > keep Senna on my 4th tier.
>> > Life (and my work), often is not 'perfect'.
>> >
>> > Judgement question to you,
>> > why do you rate a one make 3WDC,
>> > over a earlier two make 3WDC? ;<) ??
>> >
>> > (or, #1, IMHO, when one has won GPs, in 3
>> > different makes of cars - it's not just the car!!
>> > or, #2, starting with a team in it's 'down' period
>> > and helping bring it to the top, shows something also!!)
>> When you put it like that, I almost feel a little guilty for "putting"
> Nikki
>> down :)
>
> Yeah, I could go into more (re:high points- Lauda), but enough.
>
>> I'd like to give you a nice logical answer, ---
>> Chad
>
> I do appreciate you, your comments, and your style.
> Please stick around and post more.
>
>

:)

"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
> ------
> Meanwhile, you might find interesting/courious
> my long term project. ----
> So, my since 1950 F1 "greats" list/chart/poster is
> on graph paper. 1950 towards left, current to right.
> For each driver entered, first horizontal line is name,
> second is make of car, third is standing in WDC,
> forth is WDC points, and fifth is number of wins
> that year. So, with blank space (for readability)
> each entry takes 6 horizontal lines. So, only
> 6 1/2 names per page - so my 'poster' goes
> 2 pages deep, and 2 wide.
>
> Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
> is required to make/place and entry.

Since at least one person had interest, here is
the complete listing of the drivers.

Mine has across each 'tier'
1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
(yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
enough to use that big space/line??
3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
5th - G. Hill, Jones, D. Hill, Raikonnen
6th - Hawthorne, Surtees, Hunt, Mansell, R Schu
(that placing was more one of time/spacing?)
7th - von Tripps, Rindt, Schecter, Rossberg, Hakkinen, Massa?
8th - P Hill, Andretti, Barrachello (again spacing?)
9th - Gonzalez, Brooks, Hulme, Patrese, Frentzen
(obviously spacings of length of career forced
WDC Hulme down there)
10th - Taruffi, McLaren, Reutemann, Berger, Montoya
11th - Fagioli, Collins, Ginther, Peterson, Alboreto, Irvine
12th - Trintignant, Ickx, Villeneuve, Alesi
13th - Gurney, Pironi, Coulthard
14 - partial (mostly misc notes) Regazonni - notes on Herbert?

Some temptations to enter Trulli, Fischella, and Button, but??

Comment if you wish.
Anyone think a real significant driver was not entered?

On 2008-05-02 21:14:57 -0400, "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > said:

> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
>> ------
>> Meanwhile, you might find interesting/courious
>> my long term project. ----
>> So, my since 1950 F1 "greats" list/chart/poster is
>> on graph paper. 1950 towards left, current to right.
>> For each driver entered, first horizontal line is name,
>> second is make of car, third is standing in WDC,
>> forth is WDC points, and fifth is number of wins
>> that year. So, with blank space (for readability)
>> each entry takes 6 horizontal lines. So, only
>> 6 1/2 names per page - so my 'poster' goes
>> 2 pages deep, and 2 wide.
>>
>> Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
>> is required to make/place and entry.
>
> Since at least one person had interest, here is
> the complete listing of the drivers.
>
> Mine has across each 'tier'
> 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
> 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
> (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
> enough to use that big space/line??
> 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
> 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
> 5th - G. Hill, Jones, D. Hill, Raikonnen
> 6th - Hawthorne, Surtees, Hunt, Mansell, R Schu
> (that placing was more one of time/spacing?)
> 7th - von Tripps, Rindt, Schecter, Rossberg, Hakkinen, Massa?
> 8th - P Hill, Andretti, Barrachello (again spacing?)
> 9th - Gonzalez, Brooks, Hulme, Patrese, Frentzen
> (obviously spacings of length of career forced
> WDC Hulme down there)
> 10th - Taruffi, McLaren, Reutemann, Berger, Montoya
> 11th - Fagioli, Collins, Ginther, Peterson, Alboreto, Irvine
> 12th - Trintignant, Ickx, Villeneuve, Alesi
> 13th - Gurney, Pironi, Coulthard
> 14 - partial (mostly misc notes) Regazonni - notes on Herbert?
>
> Some temptations to enter Trulli, Fischella, and Button, but??
>
> Comment if you wish.
> Anyone think a real significant driver was not entered?

in what universe does a guy who won 4 (FOUR!!!) races, get ranked above
world champions?
especially one who CHOKED away a sure championship. how do you quantify
CANT HANDLE PRESSURE into your formula? obviously you don't.

it seems that everyone who is making these 'rankings' gives advantage
to people with a small amount of races...
if lewis won his first race and quit, you would call him the GREATEST
OF ALL TIME!

--
?Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness.?
-Mark Twain

"Jonathan Peirce" <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote ...
> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > said:
> > "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote
> >> ------
> >> Meanwhile, you might find interesting/courious
> >> my long term project. ----
> >> So, my since 1950 F1 "greats" list/chart/poster is
> >> on graph paper. 1950 towards left, current to right.
> >> For each driver entered, first horizontal line is name,
> >> second is make of car, third is standing in WDC,
> >> forth is WDC points, and fifth is number of wins
> >> that year. So, with blank space (for readability)
> >> each entry takes 6 horizontal lines. So, only
> >> 6 1/2 names per page - so my 'poster' goes
> >> 2 pages deep, and 2 wide.
> >>
> >> Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
> >> is required to make/place and entry.
> >
> > Since at least one person had interest, here is
> > the complete listing of the drivers.
> >
> > Mine has across each 'tier'
> > 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
> > 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
> > (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
> > enough to use that big space/line??
> > 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
> > 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
> > 5th - G. Hill, Jones, D. Hill, Raikonnen
> > 6th - Hawthorne, Surtees, Hunt, Mansell, R Schu
> > (that placing was more one of time/spacing?)
> > 7th - von Tripps, Rindt, Schecter, Rossberg, Hakkinen, Massa?
> > 8th - P Hill, Andretti, Barrachello (again spacing?)
> > 9th - Gonzalez, Brooks, Hulme, Patrese, Frentzen
> > (obviously spacings of length of career forced
> > WDC Hulme down there)
> > 10th - Taruffi, McLaren, Reutemann, Berger, Montoya
> > 11th - Fagioli, Collins, Ginther, Peterson, Alboreto, Irvine
> > 12th - Trintignant, Ickx, Villeneuve, Alesi
> > 13th - Gurney, Pironi, Coulthard
> > 14 - partial (mostly misc notes) Regazonni - notes on Herbert?
> >
> > Some temptations to enter Trulli, Fischella, and Button, but??
> >
> > Comment if you wish.
> > Anyone think a real significant driver was not entered?
>
> in what universe does a guy who won 4 (FOUR!!!) races,
> get ranked above world champions?

Did you read my words:
> >> Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
> >> is required to make/place and entry.
?

To clarify.
It's a poster/chart/graph I use for quick reference.
The exact 'tier' is not meant to have 'big' significance.

(aside, so, soon after M.Schumacher appeared on
the scene, I just felt "he's likely to win some WDCs",
and I entered him in vacant 'slot' on tier 4.
((if I'd correctly guessed "how many?" - perhaps different!))
although probably I've erased at times, I've rarely moved.
If I ever had to redo it all, yeah, I'd probably make
some adjustments and changes.)

> especially one who CHOKED away a sure championship.
> how do you quantify CANT HANDLE PRESSURE
> into your formula? obviously you don't.

I am very well aware of Lewis's 'failures'.
But, are you willing to bet he'll never win WDCs?

> if lewis won his first race and quit, you would call him
> the GREATEST OF ALL TIME!

I certainly would not.
Baghetti is not even on my chart.

However, at the end of 2007, with LH as a rookie
taking 2nd in WDC, and 4 GP wins, that alone
will justify him being on the 'chart/graph/poster'
somewhere. I entered him in my best guess empty spot,
'tier' 4. I sure might be wrong, time will tell.
(or, , I'm sure to be 'some' wrong! Question is how much!)

> it seems that everyone who is making these 'rankings' gives
> advantage to people with a small amount of races...

We have discussed that a fair amount.

"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:

> So, my since 1950 F1 "greats" list/chart/poster is
> on graph paper. 1950 towards left, current to right.
> For each driver entered, first horizontal line is name,
> second is make of car, third is standing in WDC,
> forth is WDC points, and fifth is number of wins
> that year. So, with blank space (for readability)
> each entry takes 6 horizontal lines. So, only
> 6 1/2 names per page - so my 'poster' goes
> 2 pages deep, and 2 wide.
>
> Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
> is required to make/place and entry.
>
> Mine has across each 'tier'
> 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
> 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
> (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
> enough to use that big space/line??

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier, but I've been busy with other things.

OK, I'm surprised to see Prost and Alonso in tier 1, and even more so
to see Neslon in tier 2. Doesn't the '1993' comment ignore Alonso?

Piquet, of course, won 3 x WDC for two teams, which are both good
evidence of ability. However, he really shouldn't have been WDC in
1981 - IF Reutemann (and Williams) had got their act together in Vegas.
His 1987 DC is also 'tainted' by the fact that he found it hard to
deal with Mansell - and Mansell lost out by injuring himself in Japan
and missing the last two races. The Brabham years owed a lot to Gordon
Murray and some innovative tactics.

> 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher

IMHO Jimmy really should be higher, partly because he didn't get to
'finish' his career.

> 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!

I was never a big Senna fan, but I cannot understand him in this
company!

> 5th - G. Hill, Jones, D. Hill, Raikonnen
> 6th - Hawthorne, Surtees, Hunt, Mansell, R Schu
> (that placing was more one of time/spacing?)
> 7th - von Tripps, Rindt, Schecter, Rossberg, Hakkinen
> 8th - P Hill, Andretti, Barrachello (again spacing?)
> 9th - Gonzalez, Brooks, Hulme, Patrese, Frentzen
> (obviously spacings of length of career forced
> WDC Hulme down there)
> 10, 11, 12, 13, and one partial one on 14
>
> Comment if you wish.

"Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceR wrote ..
> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:
> > So, my since 1950 F1 "greats" list/chart/poster is
> > on graph paper. 1950 towards left, current to right.
> > For each driver entered, first horizontal line is name,
> > second is make of car, third is standing in WDC,
> > forth is WDC points, and fifth is number of wins
> > that year. So, with blank space (for readability)
> > each entry takes 6 horizontal lines. So, only
> > 6 1/2 names per page - so my 'poster' goes
> > 2 pages deep, and 2 wide.
> > Certainly, some judgement (and predictive ability??)
> > is required to make/place and entry.
> > Mine has across each 'tier'
> > 1st - Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Alonso.
> > 2nd - Ascari, Brabham, Piquet
> > (yeah?? since 1993 none have 'inspired' me
> > enough to use that big space/line??
>
> Sorry, I meant to reply earlier, but I've been busy with other things.

I fully understand, a good life has many things in it.
I feel honored anytime you take time to respond to me.

> OK, I'm surprised to see Prost -- in tier 1,

I think I can clearly present reasons that justify Prost
in "tier #1".
4 WDCs, and when you also consider that if he'd
had 2 1/2 points more, he'd have had 6 WDCs.
And, not too far from 7.
And also, consider that in 1988, he finished having
gained 11 more points than the WDC!
He won 51 GPs!
(nearly double what anyone prior had won,
and I believe still 2nd highest ever).

> OK, I'm surprised to see -- Alonso in tier 1,

I'll pretty much agree with you.
He is there. He has not justified it yet.
Maybe he will, maybe never.

Or, 3 big "Ifs":
1. If Alonso does nothing much more,
2. and If Raikkonen rattles off 4 more WDCs,
3. and If I'm ever moved to redo the entire
chart/graph/poster,
- then it would be clear and good argument
to put Kimi on 'tier 1" and drop Alonso down
(where? - hard to say with 'spacings' - like 4or5?)

> Doesn't the '1993' comment ignore Alonso?
sorta.

> and even more so to see Nelson in tier 2.
> Piquet, of course, won 3 x WDC for two teams, which are both good
> evidence of ability. However, he really shouldn't have been WDC in
> 1981 - IF Reutemann (and Williams) had got their act together in Vegas.
> His 1987 DC is also 'tainted' by the fact that he found it hard to
> deal with Mansell - and Mansell lost out by injuring himself in Japan
> and missing the last two races. The Brabham years owed a lot to Gordon
> Murray and some innovative tactics.

Interesting points. To address each:

> and even more so to see Nelson in tier 2.
Yes, comment very valid. As I believe I've said elsewhere,
If I were to redo it, I'd move Lauda and MSchumacher
from 3rd tier, to 2nd, and Piquet from 2nd to 3rd.

>1981 IF Reutemann (and Williams) had got their act together in Vegas.
yes, the 'ifs'.
I felt very disgusted with that at the time.
Williams had the chance for #1 (Reutemann WDC) and very
stupidly frittered it all away.
They concentrated way to much effort on Jones, then on
finding a replacement for him, and left Carlos slipping.
But, to some extent, it was predictable.
By team emotions, loyalties, interpersonal ties, dark
moods, the win against team orders, etc.
A clear example, that it takes more than just 'driving ability'
to pull together a team and win WDCs.
(methinks, one reason MS=7, JV "I'm not motivator!"=1)
The fact that others 'goofed up' should not distract us
from observation the Piquet, Murray, Brabham, did
keep their "eye on the ball", and did win it.
(methinks similarly, a reason Kimi, Massa & Ferrari 2007!)

> His 1987 WDC is also 'tainted' by he found it hard to
> deal with Mansell - and Mansell -- injuring himself in Japan
I do not consider that as too much of a 'taint'.
(athough I do consider both 86 & 87 as further evidence
of real and serious problems with Williams!!)
(skipping lots of thoughts - 86, 'bait and switch etc.')
In 87 Piquet kept his eye on the ball and did huge
string of 1sts and 2nds, while Mansell generally
1sts and way downs. Win, or break, that mentality or
attitude, increases chances of injury.
Entering Japan (2 races to go), Piquet led Mansell by 12 points,
(and then 9-6-4) tough road. Piquet won WDC by 'smarts'.

> > 3rd - Farina, Clark, Lauda, MSchumacher
> IMHO Jimmy really should be higher, partly because he
> didn't get to 'finish' his career.

Two totally different thoughts/responses.
1. Clark's career overlaps with both Brabham and Stewart.
Final line, both (Brab&Ste) won 3 WDCs,
with at least two makes of cars, and won GPs with
multiple (Stewart = 4, Brabham =2)
IMHO, those facts alone, merit both over a
2 time WDC, and it's with only one make.

2. I have been racing for a long time.
And enjoying/watching longer.
It is what it is. And, true enough, some bad twists
of fate are like random 'bolts out of the blue'.
But, there are also many, that you just know are
running a risky chance, and given enough risks,
the 'double 00' is likely to come up.
There is a very fast make of car in a class I like,
I just will not buy. I've seen enough!
Consider:
a. how many major accidents Lotus had due
to mechanical failure?
b. how great (any of a dozen names) might of been
it they had only gotten a chance?

So, sure, Clark's car control was great, but he
only accomplished what he did accomplish.

> > 4th - Moss, Fittipaldi, Senna, J Villeneuve, now LH!
> I was never a big Senna fan, but I cannot understand
> him in this company!

Pretty much same as discussion of Clark.
Senna's career overlapped with Prost, Lauda,
and Piquet, with the others being 'significant' earlier.
Prost on top with 4 WDCs (nearly more)
and 51 GP wins in 4 makes of car.
Lauda, 3 WDCs in 2 makes, GP wins in 3 makes.
Piquet, 3 WDCs in 2 makes, GP wins in 3 makes.
Senna, 3 WDCs in 1 make, GP wins in 2 makes.
(crashes with other competitors - in many makes!)

I chose to not give "bonus/secret points" for getting
killed early. (and emotionally, I'd tend to be willing
to take away when undo risks are taken,
but in this case I think it's based on facts, not emotions.)

I choose to not give "bonus" points to making the
crowd go "ohhh-ahhh" as you try to run a team-mate
into a wall, or any other competitor. Facts.
.
Do we use results, and points, for our championships,
or should we go with a "crowd applause o'meter"?

Just a couple of years ago, was in a season competition
with young guy, great car control, handsome, fast, etc.,
and when he went sailing through the air like a frisbee,
(do not get mistaken - I was not near him then!!) it
certainly awed the crowd. However, Records and point
totals only showed it as a dnf - zero points though.

> > Comment if you wish.
(I figure, if anyone much reads this, probably plenty of flames!)

"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:

> But using that number (starts v. years) ((as in bigbird's point))
> does knock out von Tripps. He did reportedly 27 starts,
> but was a significant driver for 5 years in F1
> (sometimes in his era, only 7 GPs in a year).

> Posthumiously "second" in 1961 WDC.

This last fact made me think of who else managed to finish as runner up
without ever making it to the top.

F Gonzalez 1954
S Moss 1955/56/57/58
T Brooks 1959
B McLaren 1960
W von Trips 1961
J Ickx 1969/70
R Peterson 1971/78
G Regazzoni 1974
G Villeneuve 1979
C Reutemann 1981
D Pironi 1982 (joint 2nd)
J Watson 1982 (joint 2nd)
M Alboreto 1985
R Patrese 1992
H-H Frentzen 1997 (after MSchu DQ'd)
E Irvine 1999
D Coulthard 2001
R Barrichello 2002/04
L Hamilton 2007

While looking at those I noted the number of times past or future WDCs
finished 2nd.

JM Fangio 1950/53
A Ascari 1951
G Farina 1952
J Clark 1962
G Hill 1963/64/65 (quite impressive when added to 1962/68)
J Surtees 1966
J Brabham 1967
J Stewart 1968/72
E Fittipaldi 1973/75
N Lauda 1976
J Scheckter 1977
N Piquet 1980
A Prost 1983/84/88/90 ]
N Mansell 1986/87/91 ] a strong era
A Senna 1989/93 ]
D Hill 1994/95
J Villeneuve 1996
M Schumacher 1998/2006
M Häkkinen 2000
K Räikkönen 2003/05
F Alonso 2007 (joint 2nd with Hamilton on points)

Somewhere I've got a table that scores the WDC finishers with the same
points as the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 (borrowed from Forix).

--

Brian

"Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_LawrenceREMTHIS@msn . com > wrote ...
> "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail . com > wrote:
> > But using that number (starts v. years) ((as in bigbird's point))
> > does knock out von Tripps. He did reportedly 27 starts,
> > but was a significant driver for 5 years in F1
> > (sometimes in his era, only 7 GPs in a year).
>
> > Posthumiously "second" in 1961 WDC.
>
> This last fact made me think of who else managed to finish as runner up
> without ever making it to the top.
> F Gonzalez 1954
> S Moss 1955/56/57/58
(of course, then he 3rd in 59/60/61!)
> T Brooks 1959
> B McLaren 1960
> W von Trips 1961
> J Ickx 1969/70
> R Peterson 1971/78
> G Regazzoni 1974
> G Villeneuve 1979
> C Reutemann 1981
> D Pironi 1982 (joint 2nd)
> J Watson 1982 (joint 2nd)
> M Alboreto 1985
> R Patrese 1992
> H-H Frentzen 1997 (after MSchu DQ'd)
> E Irvine 1999
> D Coulthard 2001
> R Barrichello 2002/04
> L Hamilton 2007

Yes, indeed.
IMHO finishing 2nd in WDC is quite significant.
Thus in my chart/poster/graph, I've (kinda had to) use
9 tiers, to include all WDCs, -
I then made an extra effort to try to include all
1) those who finished 2nd,
2) as well as, as many drivers won GPs.
((within limits of 13 'tiers' - one on 14th plus notes))

Mine has almost all who did finish WDC 2nd.
(I think Watson is only one who is missing,
and that did involve 'extra' consideration/thinking/feeling
on my part. Long career from 1973 to 85. - tough years!
In the end, it basicly came down to a flip of the coin
between Watson (who I 'emotionally like') and Pironi,
who was really much more in the 82 contention.
Flip, - Pironi

And as to my 2) - GP wins, tried to maximize number,
but frankly Baghetti and Panis etc. were not hugely significant.
(so, ask self, why did I list Alesi??? Tough to answer!)

> While looking at those I noted the number of times past
> or future WDCs finished 2nd.

So, with mine, they thus included.

> G Hill 1963/64/65 (quite impressive when added to 1962/68)
Yes, very impressive. Tough to look that good with
comptitors, and teammates like Clark and Stewart!

> A Prost 1983/84/88/90 ]
> N Mansell 1986/87/91 ]
> A Senna 1989/93 ]
> a strong era
indeed!

> Somewhere I've got a table that scores the WDC finishers with the same
> points as the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 (borrowed from Forix).

Interesting.
Of course, brings up anew, the debate,
10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1,
or 10-6-4-3-2-1,
or 9-6-4-3-2-1 !!!!
(but without figuring, bet M.Schumacher leads all,
then probably close Prost & Fangio.)

Enjoy your day Brian.