Mosely isn't going anywhere.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

Joseph <joseph@eliminatespam . com > wrote: 
> TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
> > They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
> > balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
> > stepping down before and decided to stay).
> > 
> > We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
> > 
> > I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
> > current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
> > 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
> > lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
> > Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn?t a spectator sport.
> 
> And how are you supposed to increase the excitement?? I'm guessing that=
 
> you think you have the answer even though other commentators acknowledge=
 
> that there is not any way to do this without introducing other problems.
> 
> 
It's pretty easy. Just dump the excessive aerodynamic appendages which wil=
l 
allow drivers to follow drivers ahead of them closer, which will widen the=
 
overtaking possibilities.

Of course there are other ways, but they represent a massive degradation of=
 
F1's status as "the Premier of Motorsport".

That, of course, would mean ridding the cars of paddle shifts and going bac=
k 
to the good old days when it was easier for them to make mistakes.

Dumping TC has had some interesting results, and don't forget a few years-a=
go 
when F1 had "Launch Control".

At that time, F1 may have been the top in technology, but the drivers were=
 
not doing much at the start of the race because the technology was doing it=
 
for them.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

herman wrote:
> Joseph <joseph@eliminatespam . com > wrote:
>> TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
>>> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
>>> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
>>> stepping down before and decided to stay).
>>>
>>> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
>>>
>>> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
>>> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
>>> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
>>> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
>>> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn?t a spectator sport.
>> And how are you supposed to increase the excitement?? I'm guessing that
>> you think you have the answer even though other commentators acknowledge
>> that there is not any way to do this without introducing other problems.
>>
>>
> It's pretty easy. Just dump the excessive aerodynamic appendages which will
> allow drivers to follow drivers ahead of them closer, which will widen the
> overtaking possibilities.
>

Of course it is not that easy, and the fact that you think it is that
easy indicates that you simply do not understand the issues.

So you say to dump the excessive aerodynamic appendages. However, that
has been what has been happening almost every year with rule changes for
more than a decade now. So your idea hasn't worked? Or are you saying to
remove wings completely? That would make the F1 cars slower than
Indycars, and would smash the spectacle. F1 cars are supposed to be fast.

Not to mention that overtaking in the past was possible not so much
because of the lack of aerodynamics - as they have been around a long
time - but because of the draft effect in that the car ahead would punch
a hole in the air resistance. However, cars in the past without all of
the investment in wind tunnels were a bit like bricks - so of course
they put a big hole in the air. Modern F1 cars - especially without
aerodynamic devices - would slice through the air so smoothly that the
draft would be minimal.

The real reason that overtaking is so difficult is because - if you had
done any motor racing - you would know that to overtake a car requires
immense precision, e.g., as in turning in a few inches later to get a
better run onto the straight. The reality is that current F1 cars are
too fast, so that even the best drivers cannot control the cars to this
level of precision. The only way to then increase the overtaking is to
make the F1 cars a lot slower - but then it is no longer F1. See the
problem??

> Of course there are other ways, but they represent a massive degradation of
> F1's status as "the Premier of Motorsport".
>
> That, of course, would mean ridding the cars of paddle shifts and going back
> to the good old days when it was easier for them to make mistakes.
>
> Dumping TC has had some interesting results, and don't forget a few years-ago
> when F1 had "Launch Control".
>
> At that time, F1 may have been the top in technology, but the drivers were
> not doing much at the start of the race because the technology was doing it
> for them.
>

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

they could start with getting more than 1 team winning all the time....
Ferrari..
I don't understand why the other team ,, BMW, MB, and the Honda, Toyota stay
in F1, they don't need it to "sell" car....
F1 would shit if those team just said "screw it" and leave ..........
Max's and Bernie's ass would .........



<TonyMitch@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:ce25bdf7-8382-425b-b1fd-f5dfb4a0dc46@27g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
stepping down before and decided to stay).

We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.

I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a spectator sport.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

NEAL ZIERKE <deniserz@verizon . net > wrote:
> they could start with getting more than 1 team winning all the time....
> Ferrari..
> I don't understand why the other team ,, BMW, MB, and the Honda, Toyota stay
> in F1, they don't need it to "sell" car....
> F1 would shit if those team just said "screw it" and leave ..........
> Max's and Bernie's ass would .........
>
Ferrari are doing better at the moment because they are better than the rest
right now.

They had a very bad start to the season though. In the first race, some of
their engines went grenade as did the ones that they sold to Scuderia Toro
Rosso.

I think that how BMW have picked up since last year is a great improvement
and I am not counting out McLaren yet.

Forget about Toyota. Toyota have sunk immense resources into that team for
a long time now with very poor results.

As for Honda? They need to work harder too.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.


"herman" <hermanblint@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:MPG.228ed78da01249a098a7e4@news.individual . net ...
> NEAL ZIERKE <deniserz@verizon . net > wrote:
>> they could start with getting more than 1 team winning all the time....
>> Ferrari..
>> I don't understand why the other team ,, BMW, MB, and the Honda, Toyota
>> stay
>> in F1, they don't need it to "sell" car....
>> F1 would shit if those team just said "screw it" and leave ..........
>> Max's and Bernie's ass would .........
>>
> Ferrari are doing better at the moment because they are better than the
> rest
> right now.

Right now? Er, last 10 years or so, more like.


>
> They had a very bad start to the season though. In the first race, some
> of
> their engines went grenade as did the ones that they sold to Scuderia Toro
> Rosso.

But not now.

>
> I think that how BMW have picked up since last year is a great improvement
> and I am not counting out McLaren yet.

BMW and Mclaren will take eachothers points making life much easier for
Ferrari.

>
> Forget about Toyota. Toyota have sunk immense resources into that team
> for
> a long time now with very poor results.

All that money, no top drivers. IMHO they should have made Alonso the
highest paid driver on the grid.

>
> As for Honda? They need to work harder too.

Brawn. If that doesnt work, they might as well give up.

AC

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

herman <hermanblint@yahoo . com > wrote in
news:MPG.228ed78da01249a098a7e4@news.individual . net :

> NEAL ZIERKE <deniserz@verizon . net > wrote:

> Ferrari are doing better at the moment because they are better than
> the rest right now.
>
They *have* to be, otherwise Ferrari itself might go T.U. Remember the
troubles they had with money and Fiat when Alonso won the championship?

> They had a very bad start to the season though. In the first race,
> some of their engines went grenade as did the ones that they sold to
> Scuderia Toro Rosso.
>

Yeah, you never know how close to losing it completely any team is until
it happens. Remember last year with honda: they were always saying the
car was going to get better until about the last two races of the year.

> I think that how BMW have picked up since last year is a great
> improvement and I am not counting out McLaren yet.
>
> Forget about Toyota. Toyota have sunk immense resources into that
> team for a long time now with very poor results.
>
> As for Honda? They need to work harder too.

Yeah, I don't know *what* it is about the Japanese companies that they
just can't make it work. There's very little difference in the drivers
aside from maybe telling the techs why it's not working. I still wonder
if it's the Japanese management method of teamwork and no Individuality
that's doing it.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.


"APLer" <APLer@floor.tilde> wrote in message
news:Xns9A9A78ADF37E6APLer@127.0.0.1...
>
> Yeah, I don't know *what* it is about the Japanese companies that they
> just can't make it work. There's very little difference in the drivers
> aside from maybe telling the techs why it's not working. I still wonder
> if it's the Japanese management method of teamwork and no Individuality
> that's doing it.

It's not like the teams are heavily made of Japanese people, they tend to
throw money at motor racing to get the best people available who then just
abandon the plot. They also don't seem to get the cheating thing down and do
it far to blatantly.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

"Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:2oqdnbx7KrjBR7jVRVnyjAA@posted.plusnet:

>
> "APLer" <APLer@floor.tilde> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A9A78ADF37E6APLer@127.0.0.1...
>>
>> Yeah, I don't know *what* it is about the Japanese companies that
>> they just can't make it work. There's very little difference in the
>> drivers aside from maybe telling the techs why it's not working. I
>> still wonder if it's the Japanese management method of teamwork and
>> no Individuality that's doing it.
>
> It's not like the teams are heavily made of Japanese people, they tend
> to throw money at motor racing to get the best people available who
> then just abandon the plot. They also don't seem to get the cheating
> thing down and do it far to blatantly.
>
Yeah, maybe it's an unfair remark, but there *was* the Brundle(?)
thing...

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:

> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
> stepping down before and decided to stay).
>
> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
>
> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a spectator sport.

Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with reading some
of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more sense than most of
them. The problem is not the ideas but the weak people he has been able
to surround himself with, and we can't exclude the teams, who have
allowed some very poor implementation of untested ideas often with
problems that were totally forseeable.


--
Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
entirely free! No sh*t!
* tinyurl . com /5y6ls3

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.


"Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in message
news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net ...
> TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
>
>> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
>> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
>> stepping down before and decided to stay).
>>
>> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
>>
>> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
>> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
>> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
>> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
>> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn't a spectator sport.
>
> Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with reading some
> of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more sense than most of
> them. The problem is not the ideas but the weak people he has been able
> to surround himself with, and we can't exclude the teams, who have
> allowed some very poor implementation of untested ideas often with
> problems that were totally forseeable.
>
>
> --
> Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
> to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
> entirely free! No sh*t!
> * tinyurl . com /5y6ls3

I honestly think its to do with the way he goes about his business,
basically bullying people to bend to his will. This is why the Nazi S&M
thing is so relevant to many.

On the other hand I read that the reason K-Max was wanted back after he
resigned before is that he is the only man who can get a deal through. I
think it was Bernie who said that K-Max is the only man who could get the
teams to agree on anything. (note Bernie could not get them to agree to
oppose K-Max at the last GP.) But this creates enemies. (This is partly
because the only way K-Max can do business is by using the bullying methods.
So where its inappropriate he has no alternative, hence his problems with
News Corp and Brundle.)

To me he is much like Sadam Hussain. They rule the same way. But, its the
only way when you govern groups who would happily wipe out the others. Look
at the mess Iraq is in with out its evil callous leader to enforce the
peace, that's what motorsport will be like with out a its evil callous
leader.

For me, the truth is, I don't think any one could really do a better job. I
really dislike the guy, but like many utter bastards before him you have to
respect him.

And when he is gone, I bet a whole 50p that his strong leadership will be
missed as FIA civil war breaks out. If he is replaced by Todt, can we really
see the F1 team bosses getting all sensible and non selfish? And that's just
F1, what about all the other motorsport? Oh, and that's without introducing
the ex-Ferrari bit. The fact he would be ex-Ferrari would just fan the
flames.

Max is a stuck up 'orrible English control freak cunt and people cant wait
to see him stuffed. Forget any other logic, it doesn't work like that. Even
if is is actually good at what he does.

AC (Im off for a very cold shower, that hurt almost as badly as being
reasonable about Alonso.)

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

"Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net :

> TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
>
>> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have any
>> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he was
>> stepping down before and decided to stay).
>>
>> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
>>
>> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
>> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching in
>> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along the
>> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game of
>> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a spectator sport.
>
> Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with reading
> some of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more sense than
> most of them. The problem is not the ideas but the weak people he has
> been able to surround himself with, and we can't exclude the teams,
> who have allowed some very poor implementation of untested ideas often
> with problems that were totally forseeable.
>
>
No, sorry, I don't think he *does* make sense. He just comes across as
someone who's in over his head and does consistantly the wrong things
because of it. Going to semi-automatic gearboxes instead of normal
standard (that *was* Mosely right? quite a while back) Limiting to 10
and then 8 cylinders due to cost? going to *grooved* tires to reduce
speed? (and increase accidents and tire failures at lower speeds - look
at the Indy/Michelin nonsence)? It's F1. The idea is to make a car go
around the track quicker than before. Completely opposite ideas.
Freezing engine development? Same thing.

No, he's someone who just doesn't have a clue. The only thing that's
worked out is the safely. Possibly because of those changes but more
likely because he doesn't come up with the ways to fix it and therefore
can't foul *that* up.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

APLer wrote:

> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
> news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net :
>
> > TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
> >
> >> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have
> any >> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he
> was >> stepping down before and decided to stay).
> >>
> >> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
> >>
> >> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
> >> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching
> in >> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along
> the >> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game
> of >> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a spectator sport.
> >
> > Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with reading
> > some of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more sense than
> > most of them. The problem is not the ideas but the weak people he
> > has been able to surround himself with, and we can't exclude the
> > teams, who have allowed some very poor implementation of untested
> > ideas often with problems that were totally forseeable.
> >
> >
> No, sorry, I don't think he does make sense. He just comes across as
> someone who's in over his head and does consistantly the wrong things
> because of it. Going to semi-automatic gearboxes instead of normal
> standard (that was Mosely right? quite a while back) Limiting to 10
> and then 8 cylinders due to cost? going to grooved tires to reduce
> speed? (and increase accidents and tire failures at lower speeds -
> look at the Indy/Michelin nonsence)? It's F1. The idea is to make a
> car go around the track quicker than before. Completely opposite
> ideas. Freezing engine development? Same thing.
>
> No, he's someone who just doesn't have a clue. The only thing that's
> worked out is the safely. Possibly because of those changes but more
> likely because he doesn't come up with the ways to fix it and
> therefore can't foul that up.

Have you actually read any of the discussion documents etc.

--
Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
entirely free! No sh*t!
* tinyurl . com /5y6ls3

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

"Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
news:xn0fq0vljn3xe100h@news.individual . net :

> APLer wrote:
>
>> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
>> news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net :
>>
>> > TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
>> >
>> >> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have
>> any >> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said he
>> was >> stepping down before and decided to stay).
>> >>
>> >> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to die.
>> >>
>> >> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
>> >> current form this will be my last year watching (started watching
>> in >> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is right along
>> the >> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should be like a game
>> of >> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a spectator sport.
>> >
>> > Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with reading
>> > some of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more sense than
>> > most of them. The problem is not the ideas but the weak people he
>> > has been able to surround himself with, and we can't exclude the
>> > teams, who have allowed some very poor implementation of untested
>> > ideas often with problems that were totally forseeable.
>> >
>> >
>> No, sorry, I don't think he does make sense. He just comes across as
>> someone who's in over his head and does consistantly the wrong things
>> because of it. Going to semi-automatic gearboxes instead of normal
>> standard (that was Mosely right? quite a while back) Limiting to 10
>> and then 8 cylinders due to cost? going to grooved tires to reduce
>> speed? (and increase accidents and tire failures at lower speeds -
>> look at the Indy/Michelin nonsence)? It's F1. The idea is to make a
>> car go around the track quicker than before. Completely opposite
>> ideas. Freezing engine development? Same thing.
>>
>> No, he's someone who just doesn't have a clue. The only thing that's
>> worked out is the safely. Possibly because of those changes but more
>> likely because he doesn't come up with the ways to fix it and
>> therefore can't foul that up.
>
> Have you actually read any of the discussion documents etc.
>
What, you mean that a persons performance isn't a measure of their
success or failure? I have no interest in his peccadillo's, bizarre as
they might be. Nor do I have any in whatever his "management style" is.
Results are what matter My only concern is for the total f*ckup he's
made of the sport.

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

APLer wrote:

> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
> news:xn0fq0vljn3xe100h@news.individual . net :
>
> > APLer wrote:
> >
> >> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
> >> news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net :
> >>
> >> > TonyMitch@gmail . com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> They will not vote him off on June 3rd (FIA officials don't have
> >> any >> balls). And he will not retire in 2009 (just like he said
> he >> was >> stepping down before and decided to stay).
> >> >>
> >> >> We're stuck with Max and his stupid rules until he's about to
> die. >> >>
> >> >> I can only take so much of the boring parades. If F1 keeps its
> >> >> current form this will be my last year watching (started
> watching >> in >> 1992). The racing lacks any excitement. Which is
> right along >> the >> lines of what Max wants; He said that F1 should
> be like a game >> of >> Chess. Hello Stupid Max!! Chess isn’t a
> spectator sport. >> >
> >> > Seems to me a lot of the responders could actually do with
> reading >> > some of the stupid things Max says. He makes a lot more
> sense than >> > most of them. The problem is not the ideas but the
> weak people he >> > has been able to surround himself with, and we
> can't exclude the >> > teams, who have allowed some very poor
> implementation of untested >> > ideas often with problems that were
> totally forseeable. >> >
> >> >
> >> No, sorry, I don't think he does make sense. He just comes across
> as >> someone who's in over his head and does consistantly the wrong
> things >> because of it. Going to semi-automatic gearboxes instead of
> normal >> standard (that was Mosely right? quite a while back)
> Limiting to 10 >> and then 8 cylinders due to cost? going to grooved
> tires to reduce >> speed? (and increase accidents and tire failures
> at lower speeds - >> look at the Indy/Michelin nonsence)? It's F1.
> The idea is to make a >> car go around the track quicker than before.
> Completely opposite >> ideas. Freezing engine development? Same
> thing. >>
> >> No, he's someone who just doesn't have a clue. The only thing
> that's >> worked out is the safely. Possibly because of those changes
> but more >> likely because he doesn't come up with the ways to fix it
> and >> therefore can't foul that up.
> >
> > Have you actually read any of the discussion documents etc.
> >
> What, you mean that a persons performance isn't a measure of their
> success or failure? I have no interest in his peccadillo's, bizarre as
> they might be. Nor do I have any in whatever his "management style"
> is. Results are what matter My only concern is for the total f*ckup
> he's made of the sport.

Then you have very little to contribute. The blame game is very easy
but does little to bring about a satisfactory resolution. You will find
that most of those shouting from the terraces add only volume to the
debate.

--
Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
entirely free! No sh*t!
* tinyurl . com /5y6ls3

Re: Mosely isn't going anywhere.

"Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
news:xn0fq1i7n10jbiz00j@news.individual . net :

> APLer wrote:
>
>> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
>> news:xn0fq0vljn3xe100h@news.individual . net :
>>
>> > APLer wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Bigbird" <Bigbird.UsenetREMOVTHS@Gmail . com > wrote in
>> >> news:xn0fq0gpf2ujbg002@news.individual . net :
>> What, you mean that a persons performance isn't a measure of their
>> success or failure? I have no interest in his peccadillo's, bizarre
>> as they might be. Nor do I have any in whatever his "management
>> style" is. Results are what matter My only concern is for the total
>> f*ckup he's made of the sport.
>
> Then you have very little to contribute. The blame game is very easy
> but does little to bring about a satisfactory resolution. You will
> find that most of those shouting from the terraces add only volume to
> the debate.
>
On the contrary. Rather than just say he's good or he's bad, I actually
point out what could be done better and how. That's contributing *more*
not less.